FROG PRINCESS Under Protest Already

[djm99]

My point was simply that many in the black community (please note that when I say "black community", I speak in generalities and do not address that to anyone specifically) have been clamoring for a black princess and then they jump at the opportunity to criticize every last detail (heck, I heard one black "journalist" criticize them for using Randy Newman to do the score since he is the "whitest white man"). No matter what Disney would have done, the black community would have found problems with this film. IE-Disney is really in a no-win situation here.

I respectfully disagree. For one, when has the 'black community' clamored for a black princess. I will challenge you to prove that statement. I am a HUGE Disney FAN. I read papers and online articles from MANY sources and I've NEVER read one article (prior to the announcement of this new Princess) of a 'clamor' for a black princess. Proved me wrong!!!! If I'm wrong I will humbly put my tale between my legs and apologize. One or two articles is not a clamor BTW, I'll be waiting.......

Secondly, the whole maid thing did not and would not be a problem if that was necessary for the story. When Disney did Cinderella with the AA actress Brandy, NO ONE complained. Why? Because Cinderella was a 'maid' for her mean step sisters. Being a servant or maid was part of that story - PERIOD. The frog Princess if memory serves is about women who sends her 3 sons out to look for wives, one of the sons comes across a frog, and a witch is involved. So on and so on. Being a maid is totally Disney's creativity (or lack there of). Being a maid is unnecessary. Although there are many versions of the Frog Princess I'm thinking this is one that Disney might stay in line with the one I’ll cut and paste below. As you read it, be mindful that this is the Russian version and most of the time its the mother sending her sons out, but a father. Also, please tell me, how being a maid will fit into this story. If this is indeed the story that Disney is going ahead with.

The Frog Princess

Once upon a time in a faraway land, there was a tsar who had three three unmarried sons. The tsar wanted them all to marry and carry on their line. He told them, "Each of you must go out to the field beyond the palace grounds and shoot an arrow into the air as far as you can. You must marry whoever lives at the place where your arrow lands."

The three sons did as their father had asked. The arrow of the eldest son landed in the courtyard of a boyar (nobleman) and the boyar's daughter picked it up. The arrow of the middle son fell into a merchant's yard, where the merchant's daughter found it. The youngest son, Prince Ivan, shot his arrow into a swamp. When he went into the swamp to find it, he found a frog holding the arrow in its mouth. Being a dutiful son, he did what his father had asked, and all three sons married their brides.

Of course, the first two sons never tired in the days that followed of laughing at their younger brother and his frog-wife. Prince Ivan was very sad, but he kept his bargain and treated the frog as if she were a princess. At least she was a frog who was able to speak.

One day the tsar called his three sons to him and said, "I want each of your wives to sew me the best possible shirt she can by tomorrow morning."

The first two sons went off to tell the tsar's command to their wives, while Prince Ivan went home looking very sad. When the frog asked him what was wrong, he said, "My father wants you to sew him a beautiful shirt by tomorrow." "Oh, don't worry, Prince Ivan," the frog replied, "just go to bed. Morning is wiser than evening."

That night when everyone was asleep, the frog turned into a beautiful princess named Vasilisa the Wise. She clapped her hands together and said, "Come, my maids and servants, sew me a shirt like the one I saw at my dear father's!" In the morning Ivan woke to find a beautiful shirt lying on a chair and ran happily with it to the palace. The tsar did not like the shirts of his other daughters-in-law, but loved the one Ivan had brought.

A few days later, the tsar said to his sons, "I want your wives to bake the finest bread for me by tomorrow." Of course, the same thing happened; the frog made the bread that pleased the tsar best. Then the tsar told his sons, "Dear sons, tomorrow I will hold a feast at the palace. I want you to bring your wives dressed in their finest clothes." Prince Ivan went home and told the frog about the feast. She told him, "Don't worry, Prince Ivan, go to the feast by yourself. I will come later."

Next day Ivan went to the feast alone, and his brothers and their wives started to laugh at him, saying, "Where is your frog-wife?" All of a sudden everybody heard a thunderous sound approaching the palace. A golden carriage drove up to the entrance, the door opened, and Vasilisa the Wise descended from the carriage. To everyone's astonishment, she took the hand of Prince Ivan and walked in with him to the feast.

At the dinner table Vasilisa, after eating the main course of baked swan, put some of the bones up her sleeve, drank some wine, and poured the rest from the glass up her other sleeve. Her sisters-in-law saw her and repeated what she had done. When everyone got up to dance, Vasilisa, dancing with Ivan, waved with one sleeve and a lake appeared, then waved with another sleeve and several white swans appeared on the lake. Her sisters-in-law also waved with their sleeves, but they only splashed the guests with wine and threw bones all over the dance floor.

Prince Ivan was so overjoyed to have such a wonderful wife that he ran home while everyone was still at the feast and burned his wife's discarded frog skin so that she would remain beautiful. When Vasilisa returned home and could not find her frog skin, she became sad and said, "Ah, Prince Ivan, you have no idea what you did. If you had waited three more days, I would have been your real wife forever. But now I must go live as the prisoner of Koshchei the Deathless." Then she disappeared.

Ivan wept sorrowfully and went to search for his wife. On the way he met an old man and told him what happened. The old man said, "Vasilisa's father turned her into a frog for three years, because she was wiser than he. If you wish to find her, Ivan, take this ball and follow it as it rolls along the ground."

Ivan followed the ball into the forest where he met a bear. Being very hungry, he was about to shoot the bear with an arrow but the bear begged him, "Don't kill me, prince. I will help you in the future."

Journeying further into the forest, Ivan saw a drake and wanted to kill it with his arrow. But the drake begged him, "Don't kill me, Prince Ivan. I could be helpful to you."

So Ivan kept walking onward, getting hungrier and hungrier. Later he came across a rabbit and also could not kill it, because the rabbit begged him not to. The same thing happened when he came to the seashore and encountered a pike.

Soon Ivan came to a little hut on chicken legs where a Baba Yaga (Grandmother Spirit) lived. She told him, "Vasilisa is at Koshchei's house. It's hard to win a victory over him. His death is at a needle's end, the needle is in an egg, the egg is in a duck, the duck is in a rabbit, the rabbit is in a stone chest, the chest is at the top of a tall oak-tree." Ivan thanked her.

He continued onward until he found the oak-tree, but it was too tall to climb and too strong to cut down. All of a sudden the bear Ivan had spared appeared and tore the tree up by its roots. The chest fell out of the tree and broke. The rabbit jumped out and wanted to run away. But the rabbit Ivan had spared overtook the first one and killed it. The duck flew out from the rabbit, but the drake Ivan had spared caught it. The egg fell out of the duck into the sea. The pike Ivan had spared found the egg and brought it to Ivan. He opened the egg, broke off the point of the needle and Koschei instantly died in his palace. Vasilisa was now free. Prince Ivan and Vasilisa returned home and lived happily together for the rest of their lives.

http://www.lacquerbox.com/frogprincess-long.htm

 

[djm99]

A often glossed over fact is that many "freed blacks" in America owned slaves themselves.

Not sure what your point was - but you are absolutely correct. Not only did some free blacks own slaves, some participated in our capture. Be mindful that many are on record for owning slaves ONLY because they ‘purchased’ their families freedom. As did my family – according to my grandmother and documents I’ve seen. But yes – there were a few that owned plantations. So in reality your ‘statistics’ are misleading because they DON’T distinguish between who owned slaves for labor, and who ‘owned’ their family. Your quote proves my point that it WAS indeed affluent AA’s during the days of slavery. Again, this movie is taking place in 1940 or is it 1920? Whichever time it is NO one was a slave at that time. In almost EVERY oppression situation around the world, the same ethnicity has participated in that oppression. Unfortunately it was (and will continue) to be individuals who participate in the destruction of their own people. Does that lighten the sins of whites? You wrote that as if slavery is justifiable because a few blacks owned blacks. You could have listed many statistics on slavery – why that one? How many whites own slaves? Why not those quote? It was unnecessary and out of the content of the discussion.

 

[Charade]

I respectfully disagree. For one, when has the 'black community' clamored for a black princess. I will challenge you to prove that statement. I am a HUGE Disney FAN. I read papers and online articles from MANY sources and I've NEVER read one article (prior to the announcement of this new Princess) of a 'clamor' for a black princess. Proved me wrong!!!! If I'm wrong I will humbly put my tale between my legs and apologize. One or two articles is not a clamor BTW, I'll be waiting.....

Well, from the reactions such as "It's about time...", one could make the assumption that it was at least somewhere in peoples minds. I'm sure some of them were in the 'black community'.

So what made Disney decide to have one anyway? I'm sure some marketing guru had his "finger on the pulse" of the market and said "yanno what, it's about time we had a black princess".

 

[Charade]

Not sure what your point was - but you are absolutely correct. Not only did some free blacks own slaves, some participated in our capture. Be mindful that many are on record for owning slaves ONLY because they ‘purchased’ their families freedom. As did my family – according to my grandmother and documents I’ve seen. But yes – there were a few that owned plantations. So in reality your ‘statistics’ are misleading because they DON’T distinguish between who owned slaves for labor, and who ‘owned’ their family. Your quote proves my point that it WAS indeed affluent AA’s during the days of slavery. Again, this movie is taking place in 1940 or is it 1920? Whichever time it is NO one was a slave at that time. In almost EVERY oppression situation around the world, the same ethnicity has participated in that oppression. Unfortunately it was (and will continue) to be individuals who participate in the destruction of their own people. Does that lighten the sins of whites? You wrote that as if slavery is justifiable because a few blacks owned blacks. You could have listed many statistics on slavery – why that one? How many whites own slaves? Why not those quote? It was unnecessary and out of the content of the discussion.

our??

 

[djm99]

Well, from the reactions such as "It's about time...", one could make the assumption that it was at least somewhere in peoples minds. I'm sure some of them were in the 'black community'.

So what made Disney decide to have one anyway? I'm sure some marketing guru had his "finger on the pulse" of the market and said "yanno what, it's about time we had a black princess".

To mention a 'after the fact statement' is NOT a clamor by a long shot. You are also quoting one writer and a expression. I'm waiting on the clamor.

 

[Charade]

To mention a 'after the fact statement' is NOT a clamor by a long shot. You are also quoting one writer and a expression. I'm waiting on the clamor.

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2007/03/12/disneys-first-black-princess-its-about-time/

 

[djm99]

our??

I know you don't get it - don't worry about it!

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2007/03/12/disneys-first-black-princess-its-about-time/

Again, a reaction - an 'after the fact' comment. Where is the clamor FOR a black princess as stated in freakylick's statement. That is what I asked him to prove. That was my challenge! Any one can make a statement afterward - but again - where was the clamor FOR the black princess. Still waiting.....

 

[Charade]

I know you don't get it - don't worry about it!

I do get it. I don't know why you needed to refer to the capturing of slaves (over 200 years ago) with a first person reference.

 

[EUROPACL]

Not sure what your point was - but you are absolutely correct.

The point was exactly what I wrote and the stats that were given. They do include the percentage of Whites that owned slaves at that time. If you care to look you will see the quote that I was responding to...it should be easy to see why and the specifics of New Orleans as that is the rumored setting. Yes I'm aware that slavery was not in practice in the 1940's or 20's, Someone else brought slavery into this issue. I was just stating a fact that it would not be out of question to have a black slave owner or a black maid working for a black family.

You seem very angry at the slavery issue and anybody that seems to bring facts into the issue. You should be careful who you direct that anger toward. As you can see a very small percentage of White owned slaves. Considering that my family came from Ireland in the early 1900's and married other Irish that came later, I'm afraid you might want to direct it somewhere else.

 

[Charade]

I know you don't get it - don't worry about it!



Again, a reaction - an 'after the fact' comment. Where is the clamor FOR a black princess as stated in freakylick's statement. That is what I asked him to prove. That was my challenge! Any one can make a statement afterward - but again - where was the clamor FOR the black princess. Still waiting.....

There was a reference to a women (a Mom) who started to petition Disney 8 years ago. That's not an after-the-fact reaction.

Not having a beautiful, strong American black girl as a leading Disney character has been a glaring lapse for years. One mom of a black daughter created an online petition eight years ago calling for a new black princess. She amassed 3,505 signatures. Disney has created plenty of non-white princesses in the past -- Pocahontas, Mulan, Jasmine (Disney markets and merchandises its princess line -- so these are more than just lead female characters of its movies, they are brands in the truest sense of the word).



That's just one I'm sure there are more.

 

[djm99]

I do get it. I don't know why you needed to refer to the capturing of slaves (over 200 years ago) with a first person reference.

Maybe - because MY family was involved!

 

[EUROPACL]

Maybe - because MY family was involved!

How many slaves did your family bring over?

 

[Charade]

Maybe - because MY family was involved!

THIS generation?

 

[djm99]

You seem very angry at the slavery issue and anybody that seems to bring facts into the issue. You should be careful who you direct that anger toward. As you can see a very small percentage of White owned slaves. Considering that my family came from Ireland in the early 1900's and married other Irish that came later, I'm afraid you might want to direct it somewhere else.

It amazes me that someone can 'read' anger on a message board! You must have magical powers.

There was a reference to a women (a Mom) who started to petition Disney 8 years ago. That's not an after-the-fact reaction.

Yes you are correct. I took a little time and read through a few. Most refer to this black princess as Maddy - how would they know what her name was (Maddy) if this petition was in fact all a ‘after the fact’. Many of the comments refer to the black princess by name. I see this ONE mom’s petition (which I would have gladly signed) and doubt seriously that Disney ever saw this petition and weighed their decision on this petition (if it would have an in pack at all. According to the date this article was written it does look like it was written around the announcement. But surely this ONLINE petition can't be proven as a clamor for a black princess. The 28th person to sign this petition stated that this was 2006 'get with it Disney' - this is NOT an old petition at all. This is a new petition.

 

[EUROPACL]

It amazes me that someone can 'read' anger on a message board! You must have magical powers.

Its an easy call....

but I guess you were laughing and giggling over the subject considering how you were directly invloved and all.

 

[djm99]

THIS generation?

This generation - what? You don't consider yourself a reflection/descendent of your family? Yes even SEVERAL generation before. How many NEW generations benefit from old money? I read once that every new born Kennedy is given 1 million dollars. This may be untrue, but probable. How many Rothschild’s that are descendents of 'The Rothschild’s' are beneficiaries of old money/values/etc. I only mentioned these families because they hold a 'rich' history we all know. Regardless if you want to acknowledge it or not - I am a reflection and descendent of my family. The difference between you and I (I presume) I see black people as my family because unlike you are your heritage, you know exactly where you are from. I don't have the pleasure of those facts. That was taken from me.

 

[djm99]

Its an easy call....

but I guess you were laughing and giggling over the subject considering how you were directly invloved and all.

Well, I'm glad I can make it easy for you. I'm not sure how I'm 'directly involved and all', but your right - I am laughing. Not angry at all! I can 'hold my own'.

 

[EUROPACL]

The difference between you and I (I presume) I see black people as my family because unlike you are your heritage, you know exactly where you are from. I don't have the pleasure of facts. That was taken from me.

Wait are you from a slave family or not? Were you captured or not? I guess now your saying you don't know...so you might in fact have slave owner blood in your family. So It's not so much the "sins of whites" as the sins of your family too.

 

[djm99]

Wait are you from a slave family or not? Were you captured or not? I guess now your saying you don't know...so you might in fact have slave owner blood in your family.

You do realize one could have proof that their family was indeed slaves, but not know EXACTLY where their family came from. And YES, I am VERY proud to tell you that some of my ancestors were so fortunate to 'own' their own family. That's why I knew that those in statistics of owning slaves are often stated as if those 'purchased' were used for labor. According to stories told in my family and documents found, I had a relative that bought many of our family members.

ETA: I stated in a previous post that AA participated in BOTH the capture and enslavement of its own people. And to the question as to was I captured? - U R serious? I know my family didn't get in a boat willingly and come to America for a vacation.

 

[EUROPACL]

You do realize one could have proof that their family was indeed slaves, but not know EXACTLY where their family came from. And YES, I am VERY proud to tell you that some of my ancestors were so fortunate to 'own' their own family. That's why I knew that those in statistics of owning slaves are often stated as if those 'purchased' were used for labor. According to stories told in my family and documents found, I had a relative that bought many of our family members.

So why lump all "whites" into your little "slave sin" comments?