FP+... who hates it

[Shaden]

Haha - I couldn't tell if you were being serious or sarcastic (still not sure LOL) about the message boards and reader comments but it did give me a chuckle

I was being serious insofar as it demonstrates it not simply a vocal minority on these boards, not that such places are supposed to be used a representative data of the broader population

Though that is another of my favourite debates to have (we should not have it in this thread mind you). What is the selection bias of these boards. People like to argue that "people are more likely to complain than come post about how great things are". And while any social science or marketing background will teach that is true, that is only true of the greater population, not of a group of self selected Disney Fans who have already removed themselves from the broader population to join, and then post on these boards. In fact we have a whole section of the boards dedicated to Trip reports which, more or less, are rainbows and sunshine (as my trip reports likely would be as well, in fact my trips almost always include actual rainbows and sunshine ).

Anyway, yes, was serious that you can look other place and see lots of other people complain, but not as a source of representative data, just to point out its not just the "vocal minority on these boards" ...

 

[NavyDad]

As per the Bolded above, LT and I speculated on this quite a bit, and I think you are right, there is a reason, its a capacity reason.

Very simply if people are waiting at, or walking to and from a Kiosk, they can't spend that time in a SB line or riding something. Lets look at any given day and make up some numbers to illustrate the point

40 000 guests in MK, each for 6 hours, each averaging 2 rides per hour 1/30 mins.

that's 240 000 man hours in the park, or 480 000 man 1/2 hours in the park.


you need 480 000 ride Capacity.

Now, just throw in a 10 minute wait, and just one for each of those folks

That reduces total "man hours" riding/walking to rides etc, by 6660.

Means a total of 13 300 Fewer Rides you have to offer. That's more than the capacity of some rides in an entire day I believe.

And yes, this is indeed a massive simplification ... but the point itself stands.

I think what you are saying is that Disney intentionally wants people to spend more time walking to and waiting in line for Kiosks so that is less time that they will be riding rides? Basically managing the lack of ride capacity?

That is a possible motivation but also that would mean less time shopping and dining as well. That seems to go against some of their other stated goals. Maybe that would be a good way to manage so called "uber-users" or "uber-riders" but I would suspect that it would not help them that much with the average non-commando guest and first time guests that don't get past Main Street for their first 2 hours of the day LOL.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Probably the better thing to do is just acknowledge that no one's opinion is right or wrong, or more valid or less valid than another's, even if it were the majority or minority.

I agree. I think posters here are perfectly capable of reading many opinions (be they positive, negative, or a mix), and forming their own opinion for themselves.

 

[Shaden]

I think what you are saying is that Disney intentionally wants people to spend more time walking to and waiting in line for Kiosks so that is less time that they will be riding rides? Basically managing the lack of ride capacity?

That is a possible motivation but also that would mean less time shopping and dining as well. That seems to go against some of their other stated goals. Maybe that would be a good way to manage so called "uber-users" or "uber-riders" but I would suspect that it would not help them that much with the average non-commando guest and first time guests that don't get past Main Street for their first 2 hours of the day LOL.

I agree, but then a lot of the current system seems to go against those stated goals as well.

And LOL, oh yes, though main street is indeed glorious !

 

[NavyDad]

I was being serious insofar as it demonstrates it not simply a vocal minority on these boards, not that such places are supposed to be used a representative data of the broader population

Though that is another of my favourite debates to have (we should not have it in this thread mind you). What is the selection bias of these boards. People like to argue that "people are more likely to complain they come post about how great things are". And while any social science or marketing background will teach that is true, that is only true of the greater population, not of a group of self selected Disney Fans who have already removed themselves from the broader population to join, and then post on these boards. In fact we have a whole section of the boards dedicated to Trip reports which, more or less, are rainbows and sunshine (as my trip reports likely would be as well, in fact my trips almost always include actual rainbows and sunshine ).

Anyway, yes, was serious that you can look other place and see lots of other people complain, but not as a source of representative data, just to point out its not just the "vocal minority on these boards" ...

I'll bite

Social Media in general and these boards specifically ARE the most self-selective you can possibly be - for some of the reasons you point out.

As you mentioned posters on here are self selecting to be a part of this group. By nature, just in joining this group they are going to be more intense about and more knowledgable about WDW than the general population by an extreme factor.

It is also very true that MOST humans, by nature, are more likely to leave negative feedback than positive. The theme parks board is one of the most heavily trafficked boards on the DIS and has the largest sample representative of the poplution of the DIS. There are tons of people posting in this particular board and in general you will find that the largest numbers of negative posts come in this sub-board.

As you mentioned the trip-reports posters are another group of self-selected people from an already self-selected population. By nature, as they have been doubly self-selected they are going to be an even more extreme minority. That particular minority group loved their Disney trips so much and were so organized in their touring that they spend huge amounts of time telling people all about every detail of their trip and back it up with pictures. They tell/show you about everything they ate, how they travelled, where they slept (even review the toilet facilities LOL), how they felt when they got to Orlando and how they felt when they got home and how they are already planning their next trip.

By nature self selected groups are always going to be the most opinionated (positive or negative) and vocal - and YES - by nature almost always a minority. Basically a "Vocal Minority"

FTR - there is nothing wrong with being a vocal minority. In today's culture and climate they usually have the most influence per capita...

 

[Shaden]

I like your take on it, I am not sure about the break down of positive vs negative on the Theme parks board, but I haven't really given it much thought compared to the other sub threads eith.

Interesting view point indeed.

And this conversation has the potential to pull me into a dark hole while I should be working on a lecture, so I will leave it at that

 

[SmithSmith]

I'll bite

Social Media in general and these boards specifically ARE the most self-selective you can possibly be - for some of the reasons you point out.

As you mentioned posters on here are self selecting to be a part of this group. By nature, just in joining this group they are going to be more intense about and more knowledgable about WDW than the general population by an extreme factor.

It is also very true that MOST humans, by nature, are more likely to leave negative feedback than positive. The theme parks board is one of the most heavily trafficked boards on the DIS and has the largest sample representative of the poplution of the DIS. There are tons of people posting in this particular board and in general you will find that the largest numbers of negative posts come in this sub-board.

As you mentioned the trip-reports posters are another group of self-selected people from an already self-selected population. By nature, as they have been doubly self-selected they are going to be an even more extreme minority. That particular minority group loved their Disney trips so much and were so organized in their touring that they spend huge amounts of time telling people all about every detail of their trip and back it up with pictures. They tell/show you about everything they ate, how they travelled, where they slept (even review the toilet facilities LOL), how they felt when they got to Orlando and how they felt when they got home and how they are already planning their next trip.

By nature self selected groups are always going to be the most opinionated (positive or negative) and vocal - and YES - by nature almost always a minority. Basically a "Vocal Minority"

FTR - there is nothing wrong with being a vocal minority. In today's culture and climate they usually have the most influence per capita...

Interesting perspective.

I agree. I think it's true, that while we on this Dis are more knowledgeable than the general public, we also care more than the general public. I think our collective passion for Disney causes us to make mountains out of molehills. This issue of whether or not the casual guest is accepting the latest incarnation of FP arises often. I, for one, find it hard to believe that they even care.

 

[tweak89]

I'm in the parks now, and after three days I think it's safe to say I'm not a fan of the system as a whole. I think the concept is good, but the execution is poor. My OPINION is based on our previous trips to the park under the old system and how much we could accomplish under it vs. what we've done so far under FP+.

What I like about the system? That I am able to reserve a few rides agreed of time. It's what happens after I've used my last FP+ reservation that has been a big miss for me.

I don't know how they can fix it, but there has to be a way to hold back some spots the more popular rides so that they can be released through the day.

So far, we've had nothing of interest left at MK, Epcot or AK (we hit HS tomorrow) after our initial reservations.

So, that's my OPINION on it right now, we'll see what the next two days bring.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I'm in the parks now, and after three days I think it's safe to say I'm not a fan of the system as a whole. I think the concept is good, but the execution is poor. My OPINION is based on our previous trips to the park under the old system and how much we could accomplish under it vs. what we've done so far under FP+.

What I like about the system? That I am able to reserve a few rides agreed of time. It's what happens after I've used my last FP+ reservation that has been a big miss for me.

I don't know how they can fix it, but there has to be a way to hold back some spots the more popular rides so that they can be released through the day.

So far, we've had nothing of interest left at MK, Epcot or AK (we hit HS tomorrow) after our initial reservations.

So, that's my OPINION on it right now, we'll see what the next two days bring.

Just for curiosity's sake, appx what times have your initial 3 fp+ all been done and you've tried for a 4th?

 

[Rebekkap]

I'm in the parks now, and after three days I think it's safe to say I'm not a fan of the system as a whole. I think the concept is good, but the execution is poor. My OPINION is based on our previous trips to the park under the old system and how much we could accomplish under it vs. what we've done so far under FP+.

What I like about the system? That I am able to reserve a few rides agreed of time. It's what happens after I've used my last FP+ reservation that has been a big miss for me.

I don't know how they can fix it, but there has to be a way to hold back some spots the more popular rides so that they can be released through the day.

So far, we've had nothing of interest left at MK, Epcot or AK (we hit HS tomorrow) after our initial reservations.

So, that's my OPINION on it right now, we'll see what the next two days bring.

That's funny, because yesterday at MK I could have got just about anything except Anna and Elsa as a fourth FP - I chose to ride Seven Dwarfs Mine Train for a second time - and today I could have got Seven Dwarfs Mine train again, for 7.15-8.15pm but it's been a big week and the Magical Express is picking me up at 3.55am tomorrow so I decided a relaxing afternoon of lying around the pool and/or my hotel room was the way to go. I rode Winnie the Pooh as my fourth (with pretty much immediate availability, even though there was a 50 minute wait). Then I came back to the hotel.

 

[Angel Ariel]

View attachment 84137

That's funny, because yesterday at MK I could have got just about anything except Anna and Elsa as a fourth FP - I chose to ride Seven Dwarfs Mine Train for a second time - and today I could have got Seven Dwarfs Mine train again, for 7.15-8.15pm but it's been a big week and the Magical Express is picking me up at 3.55am tomorrow so I decided a relaxing afternoon of lying around the pool and/or my hotel room was the way to go. I rode Winnie the Pooh as my fourth (with pretty much immediate availability, even though there was a 50 minute wait). Then I came back to the hotel.

According to your screenshot you were getting a fp for 1. Perhaps the PP was looking for a larger party size?

 

[mom2rtk]

The interesting thing is that I've been on the DIS for a number of years. There have always been negative threads, but nothing like what there has been recently. I wonder if there's something new in the parks prompting that change. Hmmm......

 

[cakebaker]

According to your screenshot you were getting a fp for 1. Perhaps the PP was looking for a larger party size?

I noticed her selections were for 1, so I checked myself and at the MK, there is availability for up to 4 for everything except: parades, fireworks, sdmt, A&E and Ariel M&G. It's after 3:30 and still all the mountains are available.

 

[DougEMG]

FP+ is one of many crowd control techniques that WDW uses to maximize income.
I have had two close friends in Management positions at WDW.
They both told me that Disney's goal is for guests to spend less time doing rides and more time eating and buying merchandise.
Food and merchandise produce exorbitant income, whereas rides are a drain on the bottom line because they require substantial space, personnel, and maintenance to operate.

Not surprising that they want us to spend more dining and buying merchandise, but what we've found on our last couple of trips is we are doing the exact opposite. With FP+ we hit the 3 rides back to back fairly quickly, then find that most everything else has a long line, so we end up leaving the park. These days we are lucky to spend half a day in a park now.

 

[tweak89]

Just for curiosity's sake, appx what times have your initial 3 fp+ all been done and you've tried for a 4th?

Epcot and Animal Kingdom were done by 2pm. Magic Kingdom was the anamoly as we arrived that day, our last one was around 5pm.

While there were FP+ reservations available, we aren't going to hang around the parks for Winnie the Pooh or Spaceship Earth. We could have grabbed a pass for Space Mountain that first day, buy it was nearly 3 hours later and the standby lines for what would be out usual time filler rides were just too long (for us).

We are still enjoying our time in the parks, but our ride production is definitely down. That, coupled with a few non FP+ related issues will probably relegate WDW an every other year or so park.

I think we fall squarely into into the middle of the love/hate argument.

The interesting thing is that I've been on the DIS for a number of years. There have always been negative threads, but nothing like what there has been recently. I wonder if there's something new in the parks prompting that change. Hmmm......

This us our first visit in three years and I have to say that the overall experience isn't as streamlined/friendly as it used to be.

Aside from the FP+ issues, we noticed transportation issues, a lot of the rides could use a good makeover. I think, for lack of a better way to put it, that WDW isn't keeping up with the growth in visitation.

It's really hard to pinpoint, but it just seems different.

Will be back for sure. Just not as often as we used to.

 

[mom2rtk]

Not surprising that they want us to spend more dining and buying merchandise, but what we've found on our last couple of trips is we are doing the exact opposite. With FP+ we hit the 3 rides back fairly quickly, then find that most everything else has a long line, so we end up leaving the park. These days we are lucky to spend half a day in a park now.

I keep hearing more and more stories like this and do wonder if it's part of a larger trend. I think happy vacationers spend more money. If you aren't in the parks as long, and if you aren't as happy about being there (you didn't say that but I have heard that from others) I wonder how that translates into more spending. I still like buying Disney things but like so many others, am growing weary of finding the same things in all the shops.

 

[DougEMG]

The only good thing about FP+ is that we can sleep in and still have 3 FP+.

What would improve FP+ for us is if we could book 5 FP+ all up front. I'd be perfectly willing to have them tiered, but at least then it would be worth my while to stay in the park longer.

Anyone know what the expected number of rides/attraction a guest should be able to see in a day is? And why can't FP+ be scheduled for that many?

 

[Hokie2000]

Not surprising that they want us to spend more dining and buying merchandise, but what we've found on our last couple of trips is we are doing the exact opposite. With FP+ we hit the 3 rides back fairly quickly, then find that most everything else has a long line, so we end up leaving the park. These days we are lucky to spend half a day in a park now.

If you don't mind my asking, what do you do outside of the parks? This last trip we hopped more than usual and spent less time in the parks overall, and I found that I ended up spending just as much if not more money! We ate more resort TS meals, we shopped/enjoyed the lounge at the resort, we played in the arcade. I really wonder if less park time = less money spent for most people. Your ticket is a fixed price whether you spend 3 hours or 12 hours, and the offerings of the WDW resort as a whole mostly have costs associated with them. I guess if everyone is just lounging by the pool they'll spend less, only that didn't work for us since the pool bar is right there, haha

 

[Mindy Kurz]

It does make it a little difficult. I don't like having to plan which park you you're going to be at every day. And, I don't like that you can only get Test Track OR Soarin (especially when there's really nothing else good to get a fastpass for Epcot), and Rockin Roller OR Toy Story!

 

[dawgsgirl]

The interesting thing is that I've been on the DIS for a number of years. There have always been
negative threads, but nothing like what there has been recently. I wonder if there's something new in the parks prompting that change. Hmmm......

I have been noticing all the negative threads too. There used to be none or very few. I have been a member of these boards for 12 years. Definitely very interesting!!