FP+... who hates it

[MrInfinity]

What they did at DCA with Radiator Springs blows anything WDW has done out of the water. Not even close.

The TT refurb - useless
Double Dumbo - m'kay
Ariel - incoherent unimaginative ride they cloned from DCA
SDMT - 1:45 seconds of my life I will never get back

I haven't been to DL since Carsland, but I hear it's amazing. We'll get back there some day.

I happen to love the TT refurb.
Agree on Dumbo. Okay, but just more of a classic ride that will never be particularly cool to me cuz I've lived the DL version w the water feature.
Maybe you weren't going thru Ariel w a DD5 and DS2. I admit this is not there to impress adults but it was cool for kids. Ditto w ETWB. Adults? Nah. Kids? Fun.
SDMT, have yet to ride. But I believe it will be amazing and we can't wait!

Attractions in parks, not refurbs, not dvc, not shopping or dining. I am talking the things that bring the customers to Disney, the attractions in the parks. Disney has sat on their wallet in this area. They built whole parks in other decades, they built blockbuster attractions too. Lately not too much in my opinion. Add to this all the closed attractions and other closures.

That's quite limiting. Why don't you pick just the attractions that appeal to you, and list those. Or if there are none, then why are you still going? I like the refurbs. TT, Soarin, Figment, Star Tours, etc. You're talking the things that bring the customers to Disney. Do you mean you? Or the customers. I'm a customer, and they're building what is bringing me.

I don't think they've sat on their wallet. You are welcome to. It's not a battle, I just like what they've done. You don't. Fair? Someone else said they're doing nothing, but I've seen lots of changes that really appeal to us. And we're still going and enjoying new things every trip. And you're still going. So Disney is doing something right.

What closed attractions? You mean Maelstrom? I don't love the idea of Norway becoming Arendelle, but when my DD gets to go on the Frozen ride, my concern for the lack of Norway will be fleeting. Frozen is a huge hit in our house.

 

[Mad Hattered]

I like the refurbs. TT, Soarin, Figment, Star Tours, etc.

Blasphemy!!! What they did to Journey into Imagination is a disgrace and will never be forgiven!

 

[Shaden]

I haven't been to DL since Carsland, but I hear it's amazing. We'll get back there some day.

I happen to love the TT refurb.
Agree w you on Dumbo. Okay, but just more of a classic ride.
Maybe you weren't going thru Ariel w a DD5 and DS2. I admit this is not there to impress adults but it was cool for kids. Ditto w ETWB. Adults? Nah. Kids? Fun.
SDMT, have yet to ride. But I believe it will be amazing and we can't wait!



That's quite limiting. Why don't you pick just the attractions that appeal to you, and list those. Or if there are none, then why are you still going? I like the refurbs. TT, Soarin, Figment, Star Tours, etc. You're talking the things that bring the customers to Disney. Do you mean you? Or the customers. I'm a customer, and they're building what is bringing me.

I don't think they've sat on their wallet. You are welcome to. It's not a battle, I just like what they've done. You don't. Fair? Someone else said they're doing nothing, but I've seen lots of changes that really appeal to us. And we're still going and enjoying new things every trip. And you're still going. So Disney is doing something right.

What closed attractions? You mean Maelstrom? I don't love the idea of Norway becoming Arendelle, but when my DD gets to go on the Frozen ride, my concern for the lack of Norway will be fleeting. Frozen is a huge hit in our house.

I agree that Disney has done stuff, no question there.

But the original comment had to do with them adding CAPACITY. Refurbing even whole areas of the parks doesn't actually add capacity unless they add more total attractions with more rider capacity than what was there before.

So Refurbing TT, doesn't add capacity. FL2, well I don't know what the capacity of the old area was ... Soarin has the potential to increase capacity a little bit, as does a new track at TSMM, though those are relatively new additions.

I think that's the real issue, where is the rider capacity increase to keep pace with the attendance growth ?

We see a TON of investment into shops, into hotels and DVC, and MM+ and FP+ ... all things to get you to spend more money onsite. Likewise we see the prices continuing to go up well beyond the rate of inflation.

So ... where is the capacity increase ? (PS. There might be one, I just don't know what it is.)

 

[Angel Ariel]

What they did at DCA with Radiator Springs blows anything WDW has done out of the water. Not even close.

Since the others in our party for the planned Nov 2015 WDW trip have since backed out, DH and I are now considering going to DLR instead. I started just thinking in my head of what all is new since we were last in DLR, and it was quite a list. The last time we were in DCA, we were surrounded by construction. Carsland wasn't open, Buena Vista street was torn up, Paradise Pier was still getting a face lift, Condor Flats is now entirely rethemed...It's pretty much an entirely different park now than it was the last time we were there. And that's not even going into things like Princess Fantasy Faire, the Marvel stuff in Tomorrowland, Mickey's Magical Map, etc over in DLR too.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

I believe it's possible to do most of that now, under FP+.

You did... TSM 4 times that day, Star Tours 6 times, BatB, Fantasmic, the Muppets, JTA, the Disney Junior show, One Man's Dream, Characterpalooza, a bunch of other character M&Gs, and two TS meals. TOT and RNR were skipped by choice.

We did... TSM only 2 times, but RnR 2 times, which is about the same. Plus we did TOT, GMR and saw the opening and closing Star Wars shows, and a bunch of the minor things you did.

It took you 13 hours, us also about 13 hours. Same approx. number and type of rides in the same time under FP- and FP+. I think a lot of ppl think that when you use up your FP+'s you're done, but we found if you use them well, they save you more time in the traditionally worst times of the day, which lead to us getting a lot done.

I guess I'm not seeing the math here. We did 10 rides and 6 shows, plus the character M&Gs. You did 6 rides plus some shows. Just looking at the rides alone so we're comparing apples to apples 10>6, by a lot. Plus, we like to do re-rides, whereas you like to ride all the rides a fewer number of times. FP+ works better for you because of it, but for us, it doesn't.

 

[Cormoran]

I agree that Disney has done stuff, no question there.

But the original comment had to do with them adding CAPACITY. Refurbing even whole areas of the parks doesn't actually add capacity unless they add more total attractions with more rider capacity than what was there before.

So Refurbing TT, doesn't add capacity. FL2, well I don't know what the capacity of the old area was ... Soarin has the potential to increase capacity a little bit, as does a new track at TSMM, though those are relatively new additions.

I think that's the real issue, where is the rider capacity increase to keep pace with the attendance growth ?

We see a TON of investment into shops, into hotels and DVC, and MM+ and FP+ ... all things to get you to spend more money onsite. Likewise we see the prices continuing to go up well beyond the rate of inflation.

So ... where is the capacity increase ? (PS. There might be one, I just don't know what it is.)

According to Jim Hill, NFL increased MK capacity by 5,000. Additionally the Richard Petty track will be converted into additional MK parking. So more people can be shoved into MK. They'll just be fighting for the same ride capacity.

 

[minnie mum]

While that sounds interesting I just can't see that being the thing that makes me spring for a several thousand dollar vacation!

But, but, but....you could spend thousands of dollars to spend time in the parks marvelling at the vacant buildings or construction walls, just KNOWING that in a few years something else will be taking their place. Its magical. And keeps you from complaining, if you can no longer enjoy as many attractions as you used to.

I agree that refurbs are just that. A new paint job on the same old same old. New means something in addition to, not instead of. More attractions and more capacity.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Since the others in our party for the planned Nov 2015 WDW trip have since backed out, DH and I are now considering going to DLR instead. I started just thinking in my head of what all is new since we were last in DLR, and it was quite a list. The last time we were in DCA, we were surrounded by construction. Carsland wasn't open, Buena Vista street was torn up, Paradise Pier was still getting a face lift, Condor Flats is now entirely rethemed...It's pretty much an entirely different park now than it was the last time we were there. And that's not even going into things like Princess Fantasy Faire, the Marvel stuff in Tomorrowland, Mickey's Magical Map, etc over in DLR too.

This will be our 3rd trip out there in 3 years. We have given up on WDW and have no plans to return anytime soon. You would be very impressed with DLR now. I think they still have a little work left to do on Condor Flats but I believe that will be done around May. Radiator Springs just immerses you in the film. It's the best thing Disney has ever built in our opinion.

 

[MrInfinity]

I agree that Disney has done stuff, no question there.

Cool.

But the original comment had to do with them adding CAPACITY. FL2, well I don't know what the capacity of the old area was ... Soarin has the potential to increase capacity a little bit, as does a new track at TSMM, though those are relatively new additions.

TSMM and Soarin getting new tracks are a pretty big deal. These are two of their hardest hit rides.

I think that's the real issue, where is the rider capacity increase to keep pace with the attendance growth ?
We see a TON of investment into shops, into hotels and DVC, and MM+ and FP+ ... all things to get you to spend more money onsite.
So ... where is the capacity increase?

Ok, this is fair.
Capacity.

MK. Added entire new land. New A-ride (SDMT), new B-ride (Ariel), new show (ETWB), new Dining (BOG), new shops, new major bridge, new castle, new cavern, new waterfalls, new major ground-up landscaping that really does the MK justice. The caverns they created in the BOG area are worlds better than any theming in Adventureland or Tomorrowland. So you've got capacity, improvement, experience. Increase in capacity of the "Mountains"? 33%. (3 to 4).

AK. New Pandora. Hate to say it, but again. New A-ride, new B-ride, new night time show, new Dining, new shops. New major theming, iridescent plants, and I believe this will be amazing. Increase in capacity of the A-rides here? 50%. (2 to 3).

HS. Star Wars. Already know this is going to be so big it's worth renaming the entire park for. Increase in the capacity of A-rides here? 50%. (2 to 3).

EC. Frozen. Great. Debatable, but will be awesome for those families with DD's. Just look at the 6-hour waits just to meet A&E when they were at Epcot. Whatever restaurant they turn Akershus into, if it's Frozen themed, it will book solid at 180 every day for years.

These are just the mega-changes. How about Phineas & Ferb. This was really neat. We found it first in 2012, and it totally changed our Epcot experience from blah to awesome. We made custom P&F shirts for the next trip, including my Fast-Pass-Inator! Complete with long, drawn-out monologue on the back. We love P&F tho in our house. I've never made shirts to visit any other theme park, ever. Disney inspires like that, cuz of a simple new attracation.

How about the Wilderness Explorer kits. Our kids LOVED these. Kids eat this stuff up. Getting sticker badges is silly to an adult, but identifying birds and getting a sticker to prove you did it is really cool for kids. How about the new Africa regions being built in AK! Huge! So while on one hand, you'll be upset that they're de-theming Norway cuz it's just shops and an okay ride, and a theater nobody goes to, but here they are up-theming the AK and majorly improving the Africa experience. So looking forward to the new Bazaar. They're also adding land here, between Africa and Asia (capacity).

So yes. I believe they have significantly, and are furthermore, adding capacity.

 

[flicx]

That's quite limiting. Why don't you pick just the attractions that appeal to you, and list those. Or if there are none, then why are you still going? I like the refurbs. TT, Soarin, Figment, Star Tours, etc. You're talking the things that bring the customers to Disney. Do you mean you? Or the customers. I'm a customer, and they're building what is bringing me.

I don't think they've sat on their wallet. You are welcome to. It's not a battle, I just like what they've done. You don't. Fair? Someone else said they're doing nothing, but I've seen lots of changes that really appeal to us. And we're still going and enjoying new things every trip. And you're still going. So Disney is doing something right.

What closed attractions? You mean Maelstrom? I don't love the idea of Norway becoming Arendelle, but when my DD gets to go on the Frozen ride, my concern for the lack of Norway will be fleeting. Frozen is a huge hit in our house.

Not limiting at all. Build new attractions adds capacity! When some of the biggest things you brag about are simply redos on existing rides. That plain sucks, in my opinion. Closures you ask, How about pleasure island, the upstairs of EO(imagination play ground), body wars, to name a few! Please, when you get time look at a Disney world time line! Look at what was done in prior years. It is all there in black and white. I think customers would much rather have new attractions than many of the things you are talking about. In my opinion that is what gets customers through the gate(attractions) the rest is fluff or icing, which ever you prefer!

 

[MrInfinity]

I guess I'm not seeing the math here. We did 10 rides and 6 shows, plus the character M&Gs. You did 6 rides plus some shows. Just looking at the rides alone so we're comparing apples to apples 10>6, by a lot. Plus, we like to do re-rides, whereas you like to ride all the rides a fewer number of times. FP+ works better for you because of it, but for us, it doesn't.

What do you mean 10>6. I did all the same RIDES you did, subbing out TSMMx4 for TSMMx2 and RNRx2. You did STx6, but we did GMR, TOT, STx4, plus shows, I think we did Dis Jr, saw both opening and closing shows, met Buzz, lots of SW characters, and had a TS breakfast. All in all, I'd say it's about the same in terms of # of attractions. Oh we did JTA too.

In my opinion that is what gets customers through the gate(attractions) the rest is fluff or icing, which ever you prefer!

I've always disagreed w this. There are parks much close to home and with many more attractions than going to Disney World in Florida. If attractions got customers through the gate, we'd go to Six Flags or Cedar Point. But how Disney did (and does) the rest is what really made them successful. We go there because they provide an amazing vacation experience that draws on relaxation, films, TV, characters, emotions, adventure, nostalgia... really every entertainment outlet that we and our kids love. Not because of specific attractions.

Agree to disagree here?

 

[Angel Ariel]

This will be our 3rd trip out there in 3 years. We have given up on WDW and have no plans to return anytime soon. You would be very impressed with DLR now. I think they still have a little work left to do on Condor Flats but I believe that will be done around May. Radiator Springs just immerses you in the film. It's the best thing Disney has ever built in our opinion.

The more DH and I talk about DLR, the more excited we get about going back. It's always been my favorite park (DH prefers WDW b/c of WS in Epcot). Seeing all of the new additions, plus all the holiday overlays that we've never seen before...it's really enticing us

 

[Planogirl]

In fairness, the new mine ride is cute even if awfully short. Be Our Guest is also a nice addition. Beyond that I got nothing.

It was still pretty easy to find things to do in MK though. The other three parks are where the problems are.

 

[AriesAriel]

They keep adding hotels (adding people) but not keeping pace with the increase in rides. Eventually, if they continue with this business plan, it will burn people out because of wait times and the lack of spontaneity. I do wonder how many annual passes they've lost since FP+.

jmho...

 

[Mad Hattered]

nostalgia...

There is your answer. And for some of us it is loooooooong gone.

 

[Cormoran]

There is your answer. And for some of us it is loooooooong gone.

Our upcoming trip will probably be our last to WDW. Even though the city of Anaheim encroaches on DLR, it has become a much better experience than WDW for us. DLR feels hassle free in comparison to WDW. It's seem like WDW has intentionally made planning more difficult: 6 months for dining, 30-60 for rides, and FP+ booking window opening at midnight, 1, or 2 am?

Now that a 24 hour event has been announced, what time is the FP+ booking window going to open for people on 5/23 or 5/24? Am I the only one who thinks this is absurd?

 

[Alfalfa]

Consider a first timers perspective of FP: We can (have to?) reserve some rides 30/60 days before we get there

What sort of expectations and impressions does that create? Are they positive? Negative?

 

[Shaden]

According to Jim Hill, NFL increased MK capacity by 5,000. Additionally the Richard Petty track will be converted into additional MK parking. So more people can be shoved into MK. They'll just be fighting for the same ride capacity.

When I read this I thought it was MK's Capacity overall had increased that much per day, but that included FP+ and was due to the cycling of guests in and out of the park faster. Though maybe these are two separate statements.

I mean, has the footprint of MK actually changed ? And there were some attractions in the space of FL2 that are now gone no ?

 

[flicx]

I've always disagreed w this. There are parks much close to home and with many more attractions than going to Disney World in Florida. If attractions got customers through the gate, we'd go to Six Flags or Cedar Point. But how Disney did (and does) the rest is what really made them successful. We go there because they provide an amazing vacation experience that draws on relaxation, films, TV, characters, emotions, adventure, nostalgia... really every entertainment outlet that we and our kids love. Not because of specific attractions.

Agree to disagree here?

Disagree, while some of what you speak of definitely helps the experience, ultimately its the attractions that I think most people are there for! The heart and soul of disney world is the attractions , it is the lifeblood of the place.

 

[kbelle8995]

Consider a first timers perspective of FP: We can (have to?) reserve some rides 30/60 days before we get there

What sort of expectations and impressions does that create? Are they positive? Negative?

Depends on the person, some will love it some will hate it. I think for some that reserving rides is kinda disheartening. When I tell non-Disney fans who just want to take their kids or grandkids, I get a lot of REALLY.