FP + What we know and what we want to know

[bigAWL]

I have many friends who have made trips with their families over the years and did not utilize crowd calendars, advance ADRs, RD or FP during their stays (again, didn't really want to 'plan' and didn't understand the system even though disney goes to great trouble to explain it - can't imagine these families working the technology, registering their tickets in the system and scheduling rides 60 days out.) They all came home and thought we were crazy that we enjoy our WDW trips - they hated it - stood in long lines all day, couldn't find anywhere to eat, and have never returned - their children will likely not return - their grandchildren will likely not grow up enjoying WDW vacations.

Agree 100% with this. Every person I know who does not "get" WDW went about their vacation in exactly the wrong way. Seems to me that RFID is going to widen the gap between people who can and will plan ahead, versus people who "wing it" like a day at Six Flags.

You've hit the nail on the head. And I'll say it again... Those are the people that FP+ is for. You may not think those people are going to understand the new system either. I think Disney is betting a lot of money that most of them will - that Disney will make it easy enough for them when they book their room and tickets package, that they will be led right along the FP+ path. And I think Disney is betting that this will lead to a much better experience for those people who don't "get" Disney.

Oh, and this all isn't just about FP+, there are other ways they plan to use this system to enhance the Disney experience. Maybe they will be gee-whiz things to you and me, but maybe pretty cool for new guests. Again, hoping to help first-timers "get" Disney... and forget Universal.

 

[doconeill]

First off, no. If you ride a ride multiple times you are using up the resource those times. Whether it had to be running or not for the day is irrelevant. Slot were not going to go empty.

Using anything as WDW costs WDW money. Parks need a minimum of 10k guests per day to stay in the black.

Not 3,333 guests doing everything 3 times.

That's not the same thing though. That's 10k people entering the park. If NONE of them ride the attractions, the income is still made on the admissions.

But at a fully operating park and attraction, there is no difference cost wise at the attraction if I ride it three times, or three people ride it once.

 

[mousermerf]

That's not the same thing though. That's 10k people entering the park. If NONE of them ride the attractions, the income is still made on the admissions.

But at a fully operating park and attraction, there is no difference cost wise at the attraction if I ride it three times, or three people ride it once.

Yes, there is.

Your extra 2 rides did not bolster you you spend more in the park.

However, not getting on the ride in a timely manner just made two people angry and caused them not to spend.

 

[DougEMG]

You don't have to schedule 60 days out any more than someone has to get up for Rope Drop currently - I fail to see the big difference in effort on anyone's part. People just dont like that the effort isnt what they prefer of the two and suddenly it's unfair.

While the effort is pretty much the same, one of the key differences is the amount of advance planning you have to do. It is extremely easy to wake up in the morning, decide which park you want to do, go to rope drop and get multiple FPs. Booking 60 days out you really losing that flexiblity in deciding what you want to do. So what happens if you change your mind and don't want to go to the park you booked 60 days ago, how many FP are going to be left?

It is kind of like saying you don't have to book your park ADR in advance, the reality is that in the vast majority of cases you will not be able to get an ADR at a park restaurant without booking it well in advance. Just go over to the Dining thread and you can see all the people who complain about not being able to get into park restaurants without a reservation. The advice there is book what you want 180 days out to make sure you get it. I expect the same thing will happen here. Book 60 days out to make sure you get what you want.

 

[mousermerf]

While the effort is pretty much the same, one of the key differences is the amount of advance planning you have to do. It is extremely easy to wake up in the morning, decide which park you want to do, go to rope drop and get multiple FPs. Booking 60 days out you really losing that flexiblity in deciding what you want to do. So what happens if you change your mind and don't want to go to the park you booked 60 days ago, how many FP are going to be left?

It is kind of like saying you don't have to book your park ADR in advance, the reality is that in the vast majority of cases you will not be able to get an ADR at a park restaurant without booking it well in advance. Just go over to the Dining thread and you can see all the people who complain about not being able to get into park restaurants without a reservation. The advice there is book what you want 180 days out to make sure you get it. I expect the same thing will happen here. Book 60 days out to make sure you get what you want.

And with 100 FP+ available you have 100 happy guests with their choice of that attraction. With FP as it exists, day of and rope drop based, you have a number that is less than 100.

More happy people.

 

[doggydoc]

I think Disney is betting a lot of money that most of them will - that Disney will make it easy enough for them when they book their room and tickets package, that they will be led right along the FP+ path.

They haven't done a very good job of explaining FP-, or dining reservations, or RD. Why would things change now? My DD went on a trip with her friends family last July. She hated it because the friends parents were clueless about EVERYTHING. They went on one of the most crowded weeks of the summer. They slept late every day, so crowds were huge by the time they got to the park. They couldn't understand FP-, each time she got one they didn't let her use it because they didn't want to wait, they went on standby.... and waited. They wouldn't believe her that all the TS restaurants would be booked until they walked up and asked about seating at at least 2-3, each day, in each park. They had a great time even though the crowds were awful and they had to wait. How was this "average" non-uber user families experience going to be improved by FP+?

 

[mousermerf]

They haven't done a very good job of explaining FP-, or dining reservations, or RD. Why would things change now? My DD went on a trip with her friends family last July. She hated it because the friends parents were clueless about EVERYTHING. They went on one of the most crowded weeks of the summer. They slept late every day, so crowds were huge by the time they got to the park. They couldn't understand FP-, each time she got one they didn't let her use it because they didn't want to wait, they went on standby.... and waited. They wouldn't believe her that all the TS restaurants would be booked until they walked up and asked about seating at at least 2-3, each day, in each park. They had a great time even though the crowds were awful and they had to wait. How was this "average" non-uber user families experience going to be improved by FP+?

Dining reservations are poorly explained.. but people cant get in anywhere? How's that work?

The number of people who need to be reached are reached.

 

[bcrook]

If they dont use it, the standby queue will be shorter because the FP+ queue will have less people in it than its maximum capacity. So either more people use FP+ than previously used FP or the standby wait time goes down.

There is one other piece missing here. IF a lot of people don't use FP+ then Disney has more to dole out through "suprise and delight" that might be the biggest wild card not talked about yet. If the demand for those FP slots goes through the roof, and Disney starts giving them out to whomever they choose. They will be making a lot of friends.

On the other hand - many of us have expressed how this manipulation will frustrate us.

 

[doconeill]

Yes, there is.

Your extra 2 rides did not bolster you you spend more in the park.

However, not getting on the ride in a timely manner just made two people angry and caused them not to spend.

You are assuming it didn't make me spend more in the park. But instead, I've had more time available to me, which I've spend eating in Table Service restaurants more than I used to, at prices as 4x or higher than that of a counter service. Seems like a net win for Disney there...

 

[DougEMG]

No one needed "inside information". Fastpass was publicly advertised by Disney. Yet there were those who didn't understand it, couldn't understand it, couldn't use it.

There are plenty of web sites, guide books, etc. that explain it, how to utilize it best, etc. Yet some guests didn't avail themselves of that information. Didn't ask, either.

And no one here was part of a secret cabal trying to keep Fastpass a secret. Nor ways to maximize it's use. We were here helping people.

So to keep claiming that people needed to be members of the Super-Secret Fastpass Cabal in order to use it is disingenuous.

And all the new system does is shift the audience who can take the most advantage of it. Instead of Rope Droppers, it's those who can get online up to 60 days in advance, can navigate the Disney web site without it breaking on them, get all their information input correctly, and make those FP+ reservations. The audience may get shifted around a bit, but there will still be plenty who will not understand it, not be able to use it, and now, according to a previous post by you, may be completely excluded from it.

 

[mousermerf]

You are assuming it didn't make me spend more in the park. But instead, I've had more time available to me, which I've spend eating in Table Service restaurants more than I used to, at prices as 4x or higher than that of a counter service. Seems like a net win for Disney there...

On average the "super-user" does not partake in such spending habits. Blame your peers and wear your band and prove that you spent that money and have Disney reassess the the value of your demogrpahic.

Ya know, don't refuse to wear the band, refuse to share your info, wear a tinfoil hat, and then complain you're not being catered to.

 

[Angel Ariel]

And for those "super users" that did hoard FPs with the intent of giving them away later as "pixie dust", you actually did take an FP away from some one else.

DH and I never hoarded FPs, but we did give FPs away. Usually as we were leaving the park for the day (especially on our last day there). We'd grab a FP for something on the way out and hand it to another couple we saw on our way. How did we take a FP away from anyone?

 

[bcrook]

Ack! I remember the days of the ticket-books. What a pain that system was, compared to the system which followed it. And then FP improved the system even further.

I hate to see FP+ taking us back to the 70's.

How about if I just promise to start spending more in the parks? Will that convince Disney to let me get FPs for more than one headliner per day?

That was a true laugh out loud moment there!

 

[doggydoc]

Dining reservations are poorly explained.. but people cant get in anywhere? How's that work?

The number of people who need to be reached are reached.

Now you've just shown you have little if any insight in to how the parks are on any given day. Really devalues your opinions on any other factors of park operation. We go every year in Sept, one of the slowest times of the year and you can't get a table at ANY park TS restaurant by walking up. Two years ago I made the only complaint I've ever filed at Disney, it was about a manager at Garden Grill. DD and I walked by saw the restaurant appeared empty and she asked if we could go. I though I would take a chance and walked up and asked if we could be seated, the guy laughed at me. Last year we had reservations at Sci-Fi Diner and had to wait 30 minutes past our reservation for a table. If people don't know they have to schedule ADR's in advance how are they going to know about FP+.

 

[doconeill]

On average the "super-user" does not partake in such spending habits. Blame your peers and wear your band and prove that you spent that money and have Disney reassess the the value of your demogrpahic.

Why blame my peers? Who are my peers? I did not hoard FPs. I used what I needed. Disney should know my spending habits, but I get punished anyways.

Maybe they should offer direct spending incentives. "Make an ADR, get one extra FP+ for use that day. Cancel the ADR, lose the FP+." Seems good to me.

Ya know, don't refuse to wear the band, refuse to share your info, wear a tinfoil hat, and then complain you're not being catered to.

Not sure where that even came from.

 

[Angel Ariel]

You don't have to schedule 60 days out any more than someone has to get up for Rope Drop currently - I fail to see the big difference in effort on anyone's part. People just dont like that the effort isnt what they prefer of the two and suddenly it's unfair.

You really don't think there's anything unreasonable about askign someone what ride they're going to want to ride, at what exact time, 2 months ahead of time?

Yes, I'm a planner..we're planning ahead for our March trip. That said, what if our plans need to change based on actual park attendance when we get there? With FP+ and being scheduled 2 months ahead of time, we lose the flexibility to plan and park hop on the go and still have the benefit of FP. Under the current system, if we went to MK and it was too crowded for us that day we could hop to Epcot no problem and get FPs for whatever was available. Now, from what I can tell, if we plan to go to MK and make FP+ reservations for MK, and then decide we need to park hop - we're out of luck for FP+s for the day. (and eventually any kind of FP, since I doubt the two systems will coexist for long).

Is there any news on when this will roll out yet? We are w/i the 60 day mark for our trip, and if I have to make FP+ reservations at some poitn, that would be really great to know ahead of time.

 

[Missyrose]

I would disagree with you on previous FP usage. It was not a level playing field because everyone did not operate from the same knowledge base. You did need some level of "inside information" to know FPs coudl be used past the FP window. Using Robo's much celebrated formula:

1. Observation: The FP signage and tickets say I need to be back within the printed time frame
2. Logic. I need to be back within the printed time frame. Why would a first time guest that is using the FP as ascribed even THINK to ask to use it beyond the time window printed on the ticket?

Not all guidebooks advertised this bit of information either.

What is disingenuous is to think that the super user would not have benefited as much if more people knew about how to take advantage of late usage

And for those "super users" that did hoard FPs with the intent of giving them away later as "pixie dust", you actually did take an FP away from some one else.

I brought it up to contest your statement that one didnt have to have inside information of any sort to user FPs to its fullest extent.

I see that it was relevant enough to bring up in your refuting mousermerf but with me its irrelevant.

How convenient.

Seriously, we've all conceded that late FP usage was information that everyone didn't get equally. But discussing current touring planning and FP usage has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH LATE FPS. That part of the discussion is over and has been for about a year. Moving on...

Now you've just shown you have little if any insight in to how the parks are on any given day. Really devalues your opinions on any other factors of park operation. We go every year in Sept, one of the slowest times of the year and you can't get a table at ANY park TS restaurant by walking up. Two years ago I made the only complaint I've ever filed at Disney, it was about a manager at Garden Grill. DD and I walked by saw the restaurant appeared empty and she asked if we could go. I though I would take a chance and walked up and asked if we could be seated, the guy laughed at me. Last year we had reservations at Sci-Fi Diner and had to wait 30 minutes past our reservation for a table. If people don't know they have to schedule ADR's in advance how are they going to know about FP+.

I can't believe I'm going to defend Mousermerf, but here I go. Late September is an annual free dining period, so while the parks may seem deserted, most of the people in attendance have made TS ADRs to try and wring some sort of "value" out of that "free" dining plan. If all those people figure out they have to use those credits to make "free" dining worth it, then I'm sure a fair number will figure out FP+.

 

[Oglet]

I have to say that today was the first time I've really used FP since the time enforcement and I did notice that the FP return lines were much longer and slower than they seemed before.

I know we can break down how many people can be pushed through a line in x amount of time etc etc. However, I'm just reporting what I observed and that was much longer FP return lines.

 

[Majik9]

And just think Disney might offer more fastpass slots in that time frame then at 2-3pm. If they can get more people to sign up for a 9am fastpass then that means more people in the park earlier. Rope drop might be losing its luster. i hope not might i add

They may and even if they do, (and this is just IMHO) I think that the overall surge of people looking to pick up FP's no longer being there will have a drop in initial R.D. attendance.

 

[WishnDisney]

I think all of this is not for guests like us that are here discussing this to the ninth degree even before it is even released.

They are doing this for the guest that knows nothing except what the Disney travel agent is going to tell him when he books his package.

I am not DVC, AP, or ABC123. The last time I was at WDW was just after EPCOT opened. I remember E tickets. Last fall I started planning our trip for this June. We are spending more money on this trip than we ever have. None of my family has been before.

Ive spent money on guide books, hours poring over websites, including this one, trying to plan a trip that would reduce wait times and incorporate everyone' s must dos. The way this trip goes impacts any decisions on future trips. It' s not just experienced DISers who can see issues with what Disney HAS told us so far.

If I am locked out of rides because I am unwilling to put in the effort, shame on me. If I am locked out of rides because of arbitrary limits placed on my family by Disney, then shame on them.

I am sure it will be a magical vacation, but my kids might not understand why we can' t do all of the rides because of the 2 hour standby lines. Or why we go on IASW but not SM. They have added a new level of stress to this whole planning.

I know nobody knows, but what are the odds other noobs will even research and know to take the effort to schedule FP+. I think there is a good chance they won' t.


Lynne