FP + What we know and what we want to know

[JimmyV]

I disagree.

In a previous recent post, I explained how FP+ would result in my having more touring time and others also benefiting from my use of it. If anything, in my example, I will be able to do more activities in the park per day. What I won't be able to do is ride a single ride five times without a line. I'll still be able to ride that ride, however. Since I am still able to ride the rides that I want to ride, I don't see me 'needing' to come back another day.

Maybe. And this is the great unknown that has to play out over time. If you were a "FP Dependent" guest in the past, you likley used 4 or 5 FPs per day, only at the biggest attractions, and rarely waited in a line greater than 40 minutes. You took advantage of smaller SB lines early in the day, and perhaps late at night. In your trips to the Magic KIngdom, you probably never waited in a 110 minute line for Splash Mountain. Ever. Same goes for Space Mountain. And you got to ride those rides multiple times per day. In fact, on a typical day, you probably did not wait in more than 3 full-blown SB lines. Almost of your touring was done early in the day, or with FPs later in the day.

Now, under the FP+ system, you can still take advantage of the small lines early in the day, so from RD to say, 11:00 a.m., that is a constant. No difference. But from 11:00 a.m. until closing, you will only get to bypass one single E-Ticket maximum line the entire day. Every other line that you join, whether it be for Dumbo, Pooh, Peter Pan, Thunder Mountain, Buzz Lightyear, and so on, will be a full-blown line. This will be a dramatic change for an experienced visitor who knew how to plan the day without ever encountering full SB lines. And the SB lines won't be shorter, because every guest will be doing what you are doing, which is to say, using their limited FP+ options to ride the big rides. All of a sudden, you have taken people out of the Spalsh Mountain FP line and placed them in the Tea Cup line (or in the Splash Mountain SB line). Every SB line will grow because Disney has funneled people out of the FP lines. If you are one who is not used to waiting in full SB lines, then you are likely to say: "This stinks. Let's leave and come back later at night."

And this, I think, is what the new system is designed to do. Think about it. Once WDW has your admission ticket fare and you embark on a non-stop adventure to ride as many attractions as possible, WDW has captured all the money that they are going to capture from you. WDW gets no added revenue from you if you are a commando who rides 40 rides a day. The extra money comes from eating, shopping and resort activities. This new system seems designed to move you away from the attractions and over to revenue-spending venues.

Now, of course, if you are willing to brave 50 minute waits for lesser attractions, then WDW will see no additional revenue from you. But I think that they are banking on people growing frustrated with long lines and finding other things to do, all of which will cost money. Remember. The guest who stays from RD to closing who runs from attraction to attraction stopping only to eat a hot dog for lunch is WDW's worst customer. They hate that person. So it is logical to surmise that the new system is designed to thwart the behavior of that guest and transition them over to a guest who does more than merely act on "ride maximization" strategies. The real trick here is to make that happen all the while trying to convince the guest that this system was put in place with their best interest at heart and not WDW's.

 

[mom2rtk]

There may be an obligation to do so... I'll research that...

Maybe you could get bcrook to add a list to the front page.

Let's see..... I've noticed a lot of folks expressing concern that this system will significantly alter their park experience, and they might have to consider giving up their Disney trips once they see how it washes out..... but let's see.....we need a list of everyone who claimed to be "DUN".

Hmmmm...... I'm not finding any yet. Why don't you start the list?

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

Maybe you could get bcrook to add a list to the front page.

Let's see..... I've noticed a lot of folks expressing concern that this system will significantly alter their park experience, and they might have to consider giving up their Disney trips once they see how it washes out..... but let's see.....we need a list of everyone who claimed to be "DUN".

Hmmmm...... I'm not finding any yet. Why don't you start the list?

More room on the rides then for everyone else lol...

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

They removed the minimum so you will enter the PIN regardless of the item's price. Actually, there is some question about that as one of the releases stated that the guest 'could' choose a PIN, which kind of suggests that the use of a PIN and perhaps the amount set before a PIN is required is up to the guest. I suggest, however, that it was just a bit of sloppy writing and that everyone who chooses to pay with the bands will need to use a PIN regardless of the amount of purchase.

I'm not sure that that is necessary and it certainly isn't set up that way right now. Currently, the only place that 'biometrics' is used is upon entering the park where both the current and new systems require a thumbprint(ish).

I don't think that it's necessary to police at the FP line as I'm not sure that it truly matters if the FP is used by the specific person within the party. It should be noted that even though current FPs are technically transferrable, it is fairly common for these to be given away.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Sydnerella]

This!!

You sound like you are little bitter that you didn't know.


And if they limit the number we can have with FP+ and that results in increased time in line for us, it's a certainly negative effect on our day, and our concern is justified. If we don't actually end up spending more time in line, then we still win, and I was entertained by all the FP+ possibilities discussions.

Why is this point so difficult to understand for some? Are there FP plants on the DIS who are only here to admonish any critique leveled against the old system post enforcement or the new FP+ system. Getting on 3 rides with little wait is worse than getting on 6 with little wait. If no same day FPs are available, this reduces the amount of rides we ride - valid concern.

Sydnerella's Mama

 

[DAZY3BYZ]

Everybody who knew about past FP advantages had that knowledge fall into their laps, dontcha know. It was only given out by CMs who deemed you worthy of letting you in on their little secret. And that is unfair.

Nobody got that information by looking around on websites and seeing, oh I don't know, the same information posted hundreds of times.

Some are just annoyed that they didn't know about the super secret handshake you had to know in order to garner this info from the CMs.

 

[jade1]

Maybe you could get bcrook to add a list to the front page.

Let's see..... I've noticed a lot of folks expressing concern that this system will significantly alter their park experience, and they might have to consider giving up their Disney trips once they see how it washes out..... but let's see.....we need a list of everyone who claimed to be "DUN".

Hmmmm...... I'm not finding any yet. Why don't you start the list?

Is this one?

Yes, but they're not going to just stop riding when their fastpasses are over. They are going to clog up the standby lines. And if that's too frustrating, I will just be done. I'm sure Disney won't care. But I'll be done. So I guess THEN the standby lines can thin out.

 

[DAZY3BYZ]

Maybe. And this is the great unknown that has to play out over time. If you were a "FP Dependent" guest in the past, you likley used 4 or 5 FPs per day, only at the biggest attractions, and rarely waited in a line greater than 40 minutes. You took advantage of smaller SB lines early in the day, and perhaps late at night. In your trips to the Magic KIngdom, you probably never waited in a 110 minute line for Splash Mountain. Ever. Same goes for Space Mountain. And you got to ride those rides multiple times per day. In fact, on a typical day, you probably did not wait in more than 3 full-blown SB lines. Almost of your touring was done early in the day, or with FPs later in the day.

This was us pre FP+. We have been to DW many, many times and have no interest in ever waiting in a line exceeding 30 min. We took advantage of rope drop and FP to ride with little to no wait. While I'm trying to stay optimistic, what has been released so far regarding FP+ will be very limiting to us and a dramatic downgrade to our experiences in the past. We, like others, will wait to see how all this actually plays out but as of right now, I won't be rushing to book a trip anytime soon.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Are there FP plants on the DIS who are only here to admonish any critique leveled against the old system post enforcement or the new FP+ system.

Not that I know of -- what are the benefits? (see This is Spinal Tap)

Just some people who wait for enough info before deciding they hate something. I may well decide I hate it -- can't say yet, that's all. So I stop short of histrionics, wild speculation, and/or declarations that I'll dump Disney if 'X' happens.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Is this one?

Thumbs up for you!!

 

[Sydnerella]

Maybe. And this is the great unknown that has to play out over time. If you were a "FP Dependent" guest in the past, you likley used 4 or 5 FPs per day, only at the biggest attractions, and rarely waited in a line greater than 40 minutes. You took advantage of smaller SB lines early in the day, and perhaps late at night. In your trips to the Magic KIngdom, you probably never waited in a 110 minute line for Splash Mountain. Ever. Same goes for Space Mountain. And you got to ride those rides multiple times per day. In fact, on a typical day, you probably did not wait in more than 3 full-blown SB lines. Almost of your touring was done early in the day, or with FPs later in the day.

Now, under the FP+ system, you can still take advantage of the small lines early in the day, so from RD to say, 11:00 a.m., that is a constant. No difference. But from 11:00 a.m. until closing, you will only get to bypass one single E-Ticket maximum line the entire day. Every other line that you join, whether it be for Dumbo, Pooh, Peter Pan, Thunder Mountain, Buzz Lightyear, and so on, will be a full-blown line. This will be a dramatic change for an experienced visitor who knew how to plan the day without ever encountering full SB lines. And the SB lines won't be shorter, because every guest will be doing what you are doing, which is to say, using their limited FP+ options to ride the big rides. All of a sudden, you have taken people out of the Spalsh Mountain FP line and placed them in the Tea Cup line (or in the Splash Mountain SB line). Every SB line will grow because Disney has funneled people out of the FP lines. If you are one who is not used to waiting in full SB lines, then you are likely to say: "This stinks. Let's leave and come back later at night."

And this, I think, is what the new system is designed to do. Think about it. Once WDW has your admission ticket fare and you embark on a non-stop adventure to ride as many attractions as possible, WDW has captured all the money that they are going to capture from you. WDW gets no added revenue from you if you are a commando who rides 40 rides a day. The extra money comes from eating, shopping and resort activities. This new system seems designed to move you away from the attractions and over to revenue-spending venues.

Now, of course, if you are willing to brave 50 minute waits for lesser attractions, then WDW will see no additional revenue from you. But I think that they are banking on people growing frustrated with long lines and finding other things to do, all of which will cost money. Remember. The guest who stays from RD to closing who runs from attraction to attraction stopping only to eat a hot dog for lunch is WDW's worst customer. They hate that person. So it is logical to surmise that the new system is designed to thwart the behavior of that guest and transition them over to a guest who does more than merely act on "ride maximization" strategies. The real trick here is to make that happen all the while trying to convince the guest that this system was put in place with their best interest at heart and not WDW's.

Very nicely done. I would add that rather than saying "this stinks lets come back later" we would end up leaving for the day and staying at resort/house as the SB situation is not likely to improve later in the day during the high seasons we travel.

Thanks for bummin me out about my "before" and "after" condition if same day FP are not available... Yep - my family's BEST interest at heart ouch

Sydnerella's Mama

 

[WillAustin]

Maybe. And this is the great unknown that has to play out over time. If you were a "FP Dependent" guest in the past, you likley used 4 or 5 FPs per day, only at the biggest attractions, and rarely waited in a line greater than 40 minutes. You took advantage of smaller SB lines early in the day, and perhaps late at night. In your trips to the Magic KIngdom, you probably never waited in a 110 minute line for Splash Mountain. Ever. Same goes for Space Mountain. And you got to ride those rides multiple times per day. In fact, on a typical day, you probably did not wait in more than 3 full-blown SB lines. Almost of your touring was done early in the day, or with FPs later in the day.

This describes us exactly. Never a line greater than 15-20 minutes, even in mid-July. Literally, never.

 

[WillAustin]

Is this one?

No. She qualified it with "if it's too frustrating."

 

[Sydnerella]

Not that I know of -- what are the benefits? (see This is Spinal Tap)

Just some people who wait for enough info before deciding they hate something. I may well decide I hate it -- can't say yet, that's all. So I stop short of histrionics, wild speculation, and/or declarations that I'll dump Disney if 'X' happens.

uh huh

 

[mousermerf]

Folks seem to be forgetting that there will be the same number of FP+ as there were FP at attractions that offered FP prior to FP+.

Just because -you- don't get 2-3 FP for an attraction and are stuck with just one, doesn't mean that other guests aren't getting those other FP's.

The net effect is more people waiting in shorter lines and doing more. Not a small group who arrived at RD.

RD is the minority of park guests. Most park guests arrive between 11am and 1pm - and were unable to get a FP for Toy Story Mania or Soarin on an average day.

 

[mom2rtk]

Is this one?

Perhaps you missed the "if that's too frustrating"?

And "Will be done" is a future tense, is it not?

If you'd like to comb through my 17K other posts, that's fine. Have at it. But nowhere have I said yet that I am done. In fact I'm scoping out accommodations for DLR as we speak. And I have said all along that I will try WDW one more time when this washes out.

THEN. I will decide if I am done.

 

[mom2rtk]

Folks seem to be forgetting that there will be the same number of FP+ as there were FP at attractions that offered FP prior to FP+.

Just because -you- don't get 2-3 FP for an attraction and are stuck with just one, doesn't mean that other guests aren't getting those other FP's.

The net effect is more people waiting in shorter lines and doing more. Not a small group who arrived at RD.

RD is the minority of park guests. Most park guests arrive between 11am and 1pm - and were unable to get a FP for Toy Story Mania or Soarin on an average day.

I really don't mean this in a snarky way......

But do you really expect us to feel better that as a GROUP, there would be more people waiting in shorter lines, even if that means we will be spending more time in lines ourselves?

If that's how this is going, maybe they should allow pool hopping. Share the pool wealth baby!

 

[UNCFanatik]

Perhaps you missed the "if that's too frustrating"?

And "Will be done" is a future tense, is it not?

If you'd like to comb through my 17K other posts, that's fine. Have at it. But nowhere have I said yet that I am done. In fact I'm scoping out accommodations for DLR as we speak. And I have said all along that I will try WDW one more time when this washes out.

THEN. I will decide if I am done.

But that certainly will not stop you from all your gloom and doom predictions with the upcoming FP+ system.

Too bad you do not take a wait and see perspective on your predictions as well.

 

[mousermerf]

It's meant to point out that despite the seemingly endless number of "this is going to ruin MY park day by not letting me ride Toy Story Mania six times!" responses this thread garners that the majority of guests will see it as an improvement.

The hopes of having it shot down in the court of public opinion once it goes live or tweaked to benefit those who want to ride something 6 times is.. well.. silly.

 

[JimmyV]

I really don't mean this in a snarky way......

But do you really expect us to feel better that as a GROUP, there would be more people waiting in shorter lines, even if that means we will be spending more time in lines ourselves?

This. While the change may be a net wash "on average", there is no dobut that it will have a profound effect on commandos, and that is a large demographic on this board. It simply cannot be the case that transitioning from 6 FPs per day at major attractions over to 1 FP+ per day at a major attraction will work out favorably, or even as "a wash" for that particualr individual. It that person spends 100 minutes in line at a major attraction, that one line might absorb more of that person's wait time than the cumulative wait time that they experienced in days passed. Sort of like the old adage: "According to the law of averages, if I have my head in a hot oven and my foot in an ice bucket, on average, I should be comfortable."