FP + What we know and what we want to know

[mousermerf]

Agree that people who go often are less commando, and more likely to smell the roses, but disagree with your overall inference that this means 1 FP for an E ride per day is not going to cause me a load of unhappiness. I anticipate my level of unhappiness will be extremely high, and I am sure there are others who will feel the same way.

We are there a lot, at least for folks who have to fly to get to WDW. We average 20-25 Disney World days per year, on property. In all those trips, every time we go to the parks (which is pretty much every day we go absent illness or hurricane) we have used more than 1 FP on a major attraction in a day, and rarely at "rope drop", often in different parks on the same day.

I get that we do not know all the answers, and it probably will mutate as it goes along. But I'm curious why you think that experienced Disers cannot accurately assess their own reactions to the proposed situation? I feel very in touch with my Disney preferences, and I have a strong imagination. I can accurately imagine how I am going to react to FP+ relative to the proposed variables.

It's the projecting that's the problem. I understand it can be hard to acknowledge that in the big scheme "you" don't matter. Disney has been marketing the opposite for years, but the truth is.. to abuse a quote: "That you believe in the power of dreams is of little consequence."

 

[JimmyV]

It will be doom/gloom for certain types of guests. That's a given.

How much those people matter (the answer is generally that they dont as a minority) is really what should be discussed.

I think it depends how tightly you are drawing the circle. Are you saying that repeat visitors who have a pretty good handle on how FPs work and who use two or three a day at major attractions are a minority who don't matter? I would say that they represent the vast majority of guests at this point in time. If you are saying that people who used 5 or 6 a day on TSM are the minority, then, yeah, I'd have to say that you could count those people on the fingers of one hand.

I've yet to see an intelligent or well articulated argument for why anyone should be allowed to ride something 6 times in a day with less than 20 minute waits while 5 other families are forced to wait 2 hours or more or not ride at all. I think that your focus is misdirected. The issue here is not losing the ability to use 5 or 6 FPs a day on one single ride. The problem is losing the ability to use two FPs at Space Mountain; one at Spalsh Mountain; one at Thunder Mountain; one at Peter Pan and one for the Jungle Cruise. That is a very typical day for many seasoned guests. Now, it will be, one FP+ for Space Mountain and long SB waits for every other attraction. There is no way to spin that as a favorable outcome.

Can someone please explaine this to me!!

They asked people to help test out there new system FP+
They get enough info to back up their claims the FP+ is GREAT!
But correct me if I'm wrong..
The people who were allowed to test the new FP+ also HAD access to FP-??????????
Then when they put the FP+ in place we will have to chose FP+ or FP-

Of course the people who tested thought it was GREAT... B/c they didn't have to give up the FP-... I bet if you gave them the choice disney would have gotten a different redaction..

Exactly. And the reason they did this was so that people could come on boards such as this and say: "Stop all the nay-saying. WDW test-marketed this and people love it. We should welcome our new FP+ Overlords." There is going to have to be a major tweak in this system and soon. Either it has to run parallel with FP1.0 or the number of FP+ allowed per day is going to have to get bumped up with no tethering the major attractions to other things like parades, meet and greets, fireworks, barber shop quartet concerts or bathroom visits.

 

[g-dad66]

I am confused...you say good point when Lorilais_mommie says that people thought FP+ was great but then you basically say she was not totally accurate when you say the reports you read about FP+ was a dud.

Do you have access to these FP+ surveys? Can you share them with us or give us a link where we can see the information for ourselves?

She made a good point that those who thought FP+ was great also had availability of regular FP.

But I didn't agree with her that all of those who tested FP+ thought it was great.

Yes, I can find some DisBoard threads to link to, but it will be a while before I can get to it. Probably later today.

 

[DAZY3BYZ]

Because everyone has the same opportunity to find out the same information that I and other super-users found out, and everyone has the same opportunity to make Rope Drop as I and other super-users have done.

We super-users didn't restrict those opportunities for research or early rising. In fact, we generally were letting everyone on DISBoards know our strategies for success as FP super-users.

THIS!! EXACTLY!!

 

[mousermerf]

Yes, I can believe that the overwhelming popularity of these two attractions contributes heavily to complaints that guests have about long lines.

But I have to wonder.....if those very same guests will be the ones who won't sign up for a FP+ for TSM or Soarin early enough to get one, and then if they still arrive late at the park, they will still be out of luck....

If they don't know now that they need to be at the park early to avoid a long line for TSM or Soarin, will they know that they need to be on the ball and pick those two attractions early as their top FP+ choices?

I guess time will tell.

This goes back to the basic aspect..

FP distribution ends prior to 11am. Prior to 11am less than 1/3 of the park total is in the park or admitted for the day (some have already left, but that's not really important for this). So less than 1/3 of park guests control the FP allottment for a major attraction that guest consider a make/break for their overall enjoyment of the park (let's also add that people who ride Stitch rate the entire park less favorably than those who don't.. it really should statistically be closed.)

Considering that there's more than 1/3 of the park population worth of FP's to be had for that attraction for the entire day, this means that many of that minority have more than one FP for that attraction. This plays out over and over again at various attractions in various ways. A small group controls all the FP on average.

This group is to be stopped. All these comments of "well if they didn't want.. why don't they change.."

Now they are, this is the change. I fail to see how it could be more obvious.

FP+ will be distributed more evenly to the park population as a whole.

 

[mom2rtk]

Which tagline better:

-- "DISboards: The home of hyperbole and paranoia."

-- "DISboards: Your source for hyperbole and paranoia."

It's a close one, I think...

In any case, I'll leave you to it!! I'm off to accuse posters on another thread of being "plants for Universal" whose bonuses depend on FP+ tanking.

Hyperbole: The use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.

Guilty as charged. I use hyperbole a lot. It keeps things entertaining and makes a point. All at the same time.

As for paranoia? About what? The fact that they are coming for my fastpasses? (Once again, this is hyperbole, as I don't expect anyone to arrive at my door to take the fastpasses I don't really have in hand). I think it's pretty clear that I will have significantly fewer fastpasses available to me on my next WDW trip than ever before. I think possibly you could even get a majority of folks here to agree that is true. So how does it make me paranoid to not be happy with that?

 

[mousermerf]

For the record, they know if/when/how guests using FP+ during testing went and got regular FP's. These are resort guests on packages who tested the product. There's a reason it wasn't randomly chosen at the gate.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Exactly. And the reason they did this was so that people could come on boards such as this and say: "Stop all the nay-saying. WDW test-marketed this and people love it. We should welcome our new FP+ Overlords." There is going to have to be a major tweak in this system and soon. Either it has to run parallel with FP1.0 or the number of FP+ allowed per day is going to have to get bumped up with no tethering the major attractions to other things like parades, meet and greets, fireworks, barber shop quartet concerts or bathroom visits.

Wow...the hyperbole never stops does it....

What insight do you have into Disney management as to how they conducted the FP+ tests? Do you have actual FACTS to support your position or just continued conjecture and wild eyed "conspiracy" theory type ideas?

I hope to hear back from you once the FP+ has been fully implemented.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

This goes back to the basic aspect..

FP distribution ends prior to 11am. Prior to 11am less than 1/3 of the park total is in the park or admitted for the day (some have already left, but that's not really important for this). So less than 1/3 of park guests control the FP allottment for a major attraction that guest consider a make/break for their overall enjoyment of the park (let's also add that people who ride Stitch rate the entire park less favorably than those who don't.. it really should statistically be closed.)

Considering that there's more than 1/3 of the park population worth of FP's to be had for that attraction for the entire day, this means that many of that minority have more than one FP for that attraction. This plays out over and over again at various attractions in various ways. A small group controls all the FP on average.

This group is to be stopped. All these comments of "well if they didn't want.. why don't they change.."

Now they are, this is the change. I fail to see how it could be more obvious.

FP+ will be distributed more evenly to the park population as a whole.

But please help me with some real numbers. If, hypothetically, DHS will have 50K visitors in one summer day, and TSMM can only give 20K FPs away, that is still 30K that have to ride it standby.

The new system is still going to leave plenty of people out of the loop of getting FP for TSMM. Its just that now, they will more than likely "sell out" 59 days before arrival, instead of 2 hours after park opening.

 

[WillAustin]

It's the projecting that's the problem. I understand it can be hard to acknowledge that in the big scheme "you" don't matter. Disney has been marketing the opposite for years, but the truth is.. to abuse a quote: "That you believe in the power of dreams is of little consequence."

For some of us, it's not that. I don't really care how I fit into their big scheme. The small scheme of my family is more important for our decision-making. If our experience suffers to a tipping point, we'll take our Disney money elsewhere. Of course, it won't really matter in the big picture, but in our case it's not a small amount of money, probably an amount most people would find ridiculous actually. We've spent more and more each trip, so maybe we are the opposite of most families. But, if that happens, we can certainly be just as happy doing other things, as we always are.

I don't expect them to keep things the old way just because I may like it better. I still think we'll have opportunities for advantages though.

 

[mousermerf]

The number of people who can eat in Cindy's castle on a given day is a drop in the bucket compared to how many can get a FP for Toy Story mania throughout a normal operational day.

I personally don't expect sellouts 60 days in advance except for peak periods.

 

[mom2rtk]

This goes back to the basic aspect..

FP distribution ends prior to 11am. Prior to 11am less than 1/3 of the park total is in the park or admitted for the day (some have already left, but that's not really important for this). So less than 1/3 of park guests control the FP allottment for a major attraction that guest consider a make/break for their overall enjoyment of the park (let's also add that people who ride Stitch rate the entire park less favorably than those who don't.. it really should statistically be closed.)

Considering that there's more than 1/3 of the park population worth of FP's to be had for that attraction for the entire day, this means that many of that minority have more than one FP for that attraction. This plays out over and over again at various attractions in various ways. A small group controls all the FP on average.

This group is to be stopped. All these comments of "well if they didn't want.. why don't they change.."

Now they are, this is the change. I fail to see how it could be more obvious.

FP+ will be distributed more evenly to the park population as a whole.

But you make it sound like the 1/3 of the population snapping up those FPs did something to prevent the others from getting there. They all had the same opportunity.

And honestly, even on the crowd level 9 day we were in the MK, every single FP in the park was still avaialble in the late afternoon.

The more I hear about this, the more I think this wholesale change really is about TWO rides. And it would have been cheaper, and made more people happier........ just to build duplicates of those to double the capacity.

On that's right. They still think I'm going to double my souvenir budget if they keep me out of those ride lines.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Hyperbole: The use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.

Guilty as charged. I use hyperbole a lot. It keeps things entertaining and makes a point. All at the same time.

As for paranoia? About what? The fact that they are coming for my fastpasses? (Once again, this is hyperbole, as I don't expect anyone to arrive at my door to take the fastpasses I don't really have in hand). I think it's pretty clear that I will have significantly fewer fastpasses available to me on my next WDW trip than ever before. I think possibly you could even get a majority of folks here to agree that is true. So how does it make me paranoid to not be happy with that?

Yeah - I generally use words that I am able to define - thanks. One person's "entertaining" is another person's "tiresome", I guess. Vive la difference!

Paranoia... like positing that anyone who isn't yet melting down about FP+ is employed by Disney to tout the system online. Oh -- and our bonuses depend on it!! I'd call that paranoia.

Darn. Sucked back in - and so soon.

 

[dadddio]

Assuming you will be permitted to convert part way.

People can enter their tickets into their profiles at any time, regaless of whether they are partially used.

 

[mousermerf]

People can enter their tickets into their profiles at any time, regaless of whether they are partially used.

As long as it is your own ticket.. (see prior posts about using other people's tickets.)

 

[doconeill]

People can enter their tickets into their profiles at any time, regaless of whether they are partially used.

But whether that will suddenly enable FP+ for a stay already in progress, or if it takes effect at the parks immediately, etc. is still unknown.

In fact, it doesn't work at all right now, so we don't know whether you CAN enter them.

 

[mousermerf]

But you make it sound like the 1/3 of the population snapping up those FPs did something to prevent the others from getting there. They all had the same opportunity.

And honestly, even on the crowd level 9 day we were in the MK, every single FP in the park was still avaialble in the late afternoon.

The more I hear about this, the more I think this wholesale change really is about TWO rides. And it would have been cheaper, and made more people happier........ just to build duplicates of those to double the capacity.

On that's right. They still think I'm going to double my souvenir budget if they keep me out of those ride lines.

Disney does not want you riding an attraction more than once. I dont get why that's so hard to accept.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

As long as it is your own ticket.. (see prior posts about using other people's tickets.)

We can't... those were edited after the fact

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Disney does not want you riding an attraction more than once. I dont get why that's so hard to accept.

But why? It's not that I don't accept it. I don't understand it.

 

[doconeill]

But why? It's not that I don't accept it. I don't understand it.

Presumably to let others ride. The capacity of the rides in several cases at least is less than that of the park.