FP + What we know and what we want to know

[dadddio]

I could almost buy UNCFanatik's theory that people who didn't know about late FPs were at a disadvantage.

But to now argue that the ability to use 5, 6, or 7 FPs per day in the current system is ALSO a knowledge advantage is completely asinine. The time to get your next FP is PRINTED ON THE FP ITSELF. It's not like we had a super-secret club where we knew the super-secret rules about when you're allowed to pull FPs.

The new system doesn't level the playing field, it just limits the number of runs you can score. The planners (or UNCFanatik's so-called superusers) will still get the best FP+ reservations at the best times, their effort would still be rewarded. So what happens to those "poor people" who don't like to wake up early when the only Space Mountain FP+ times available are between 9 and 10 a.m. Does Disney again have to level the playing field when that happens?

I think that we need to take a step back; both to get some perspective and to reduce the bile in our posts.

In my opinion, it is wrong to think of this as 'leveling the playing field' in a wealth distribution kind of way. TPTB have reason to take action to equalize the number of FPs that are received not to make things 'fair', but to maximize the number of people who are happy. If by restricting my number of short line rides on TSMM to two they can keep me reasonably happy and make three more people happy, where's the downside? Even if I got peaved by my reduction in TSMM rides, it is still a win for the company.

This is a business decision by the company which results in more happy customers than it peaves. That's a win.

 

[mousermerf]

But why? It's not that I don't accept it. I don't understand it.

Because attractions have a capacity and are designed with that capacity relative to the anticipated park population. They intended to give a ride opportunity to a certain number of guests. By re-riding you decrease that available opportunity.. and that is reflected in guest satisfaction scores.

Let's say I am having a party and made 200 cupcakes. You arrive at 6:01pm and eat 5 cupcakes. "I was there first, anyone could arrive at 6:01pm and eat 5 cupcakes!" you claim. Well screw you, I intended to give a single cupcake to 200 people, not 5 to you. So for my next party I keep the cupcakes behind the counter and assign my firstborn the duty of only giving one cupcake per person.

You show up, get one cupcake. Other people show up, get one cupcake. You don't like it and complain on the internet how that's not fair. Four other people post about how delicious my cupcakes were. I personally don't care if you show up at my next party.

 

[mom2rtk]

Disney does not want you riding an attraction more than once. I dont get why that's so hard to accept.

Sorry, that's just nuts. As I said earlier, that's like asking me to pay for an "all you can eat" buffet then being mad at me for going back for seconds.

If that is their stance, then just be done with it. Go back to the ticket books and give everybody just one ticket per attraction.

Maybe they do feel this way, but they will never do that. Because they don't want to have to SELL that to people. But they can't have it both ways.

Heck you're making me want to ride more, not less.

 

[gwmort]

But please help me with some real numbers. If, hypothetically, DHS will have 50K visitors in one summer day, and TSMM can only give 20K FPs away, that is still 30K that have to ride it standby.

The new system is still going to leave plenty of people out of the loop of getting FP for TSMM. Its just that now, they will more than likely "sell out" 59 days before arrival, instead of 2 hours after park opening.

Assume that is true, that the only difference is knowing before you get there whether you are in the 30,000 that won't get a fastpass that day. Isn't that still better?

if you got one ahead of time, now you don't need to wake up as early and join the herd at RD, many guests would prefer that.

if you were unable at least you know you will miss it or plan to ride standby so you can plan for that or manage expectations better. If I can't get a fp+ for something I really want it encourages me to get there early before the SB line gets out of control. If I'm hopping over to DHS after a morning in another park I don't have to worry about my kids hopes getting too high and crushed, etc...

Just like everyone had equal chance to know about RD and run to the fp kiosks everyone will have equal opportunity to get the fp+ slots.

 

[mom2rtk]

Because attractions have a capacity and are designed with that capacity relative to the anticipated park population.

No, it's because they want to run the parks at higher capacity without building more rides.

 

[mousermerf]

Sorry, that's just nuts. As I said earlier, that's like asking me to pay for an "all you can eat" buffet then being mad at me for going back for seconds.

If that is their stance, then just be done with it. Go back to the ticket books and give everybody just one ticket per attraction.

Maybe they do feel this way, but they will never do that. Because they don't want to have to SELL that to people. But they can't have it both ways.

Heck you're making me want to ride more, not less.

It wasn't supposed to be an all you can eat buffet. That's why it's strictly not one anymore.

 

[mom2rtk]

It wasn't supposed to be an all you can eat buffet. That's why it's strictly not one anymore.

Unless you can point me to that in the fine print on my ticket, we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

They could fix that in a heartbeat. They just want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

[mousermerf]

Assume that is true, that the only difference is knowing before you get there whether you are in the 30,000 that won't get a fastpass that day. Isn't that still better?

if you got one ahead of time, now you don't need to wake up as early and join the herd at RD, many guests would prefer that.

if you were unable at least you know you will miss it or plan to ride standby so you can plan for that or manage expectations better. If I can't get a fp+ for something I really want it encourages me to get there early before the SB line gets out of control. If I'm hopping over to DHS after a morning in another park I don't have to worry about my kids hopes getting too high and crushed, etc...

Just like everyone had equal chance to know about RD and run to the fp kiosks everyone will have equal opportunity to get the fp+ slots.

Just imagine if park guests at Epcot and Studios didn't all flock to one side of the park immediately after the park opened, congregate there, overwhelm the installed guest amenities, and leave other areas of the park abandoned until 11am..

Hmm, you say the France bakery open at 9am now...? Curiouser and curiouser..

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Because attractions have a capacity and are designed with that capacity relative to the anticipated park population. They intended to give a ride opportunity to a certain number of guests. By re-riding you decrease that available opportunity.. and that is reflected in guest satisfaction scores.

Let's say I am having a party and made 200 cupcakes. You arrive at 6:01pm and eat 5 cupcakes. "I was there first, anyone could arrive at 6:01pm and eat 5 cupcakes!" you claim. Well screw you, I intended to give a single cupcake to 200 people, not 5 to you. So for my next party I keep the cupcakes behind the counter and assign my firstborn the duty of only giving one cupcake per person.

You show up, get one cupcake. Other people show up, get one cupcake. You don't like it and complain on the internet how that's not fair. Four other people post about how delicious my cupcakes were. I personally don't care if you show up at my next party.

But I don't even like cupcakes! (J/K)

I guess I get the mentality, especially where TSMM and Soarin are concerned. But part of the problem with FP's for both those rides (whether it is FP+ or FP as it is today) is the park they are in. Unfortunately, both those parks have less headlining attractions than MK. Therefore, FPs are going to run out quicker because they don't have a lot of competition. Currently FP's tend to last longer at MK among the headliners because there are so many to choose from.

If Soarin and TSMM really were the catalyst for such a big change, it is unfortunate that MK has to suffer too. Where I could once use 5-7 FPs in one day at MK (2 for Space Mountain, 1 for Splash, 1 for BTMRR, 2 for Buzz and perhaps one for the Jungle Cruise) I will now only be able to use 3. MK is the only park that being limited to 3 per day causes an issue for us. And if that makes me whiny, selfish, entitled or whatever, then so be it.

 

[JimmyV]

Wow...the hyperbole never stops does it....

What insight do you have into Disney management as to how they conducted the FP+ tests? Do you have actual FACTS to support your position or just continued conjecture and wild eyed "conspiracy" theory type ideas?

I hope to hear back from you once the FP+ has been fully implemented.

Sorry that you missed the tongue in cheek sarcasm of the first full sentence. Of course WDW did not do its testing so that it could fool people on chat boards. Did you really think that was serious?

 

[UNCFanatik]

Sorry that you missed the tongue in cheek sarcasm of the first full sentence. Of course WDW did not do its testing so that it could fool people on chat boards. Did you really think that was serious?

Just be sure you are around when the FP+ system has been fully implemented and up and running for several months.

We will then compare your predictions with what actually transpired.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

No, it's because they want to run the parks at higher capacity without building more rides.

Exactly! That's why they aren't investing in new attractions like a Little Mermaid ride, Dwarf's Mine Train, double Dumbo, SOTMK, Avatarland (though who knows about that one)... oh, wait...

Is it really implausible that Disney might want more people to leave ranking their vacations a 9 out of 10 rather than a few being able to score it an 11? That's assuming the "super-users" here ever score ANYTHING that highly...

 

[dadddio]

Maybe. And this is the great unknown that has to play out over time. If you were a "FP Dependent" guest in the past, you likley used 4 or 5 FPs per day, only at the biggest attractions, and rarely waited in a line greater than 40 minutes. You took advantage of smaller SB lines early in the day, and perhaps late at night. In your trips to the Magic KIngdom, you probably never waited in a 110 minute line for Splash Mountain. Ever. Same goes for Space Mountain. And you got to ride those rides multiple times per day. In fact, on a typical day, you probably did not wait in more than 3 full-blown SB lines. Almost of your touring was done early in the day, or with FPs later in the day.

Now, under the FP+ system, you can still take advantage of the small lines early in the day, so from RD to say, 11:00 a.m., that is a constant. No difference. But from 11:00 a.m. until closing, you will only get to bypass one single E-Ticket maximum line the entire day. ...

That was a really long post that I decided to snip when it got to a point where it was speculating as to how the program will work. As it turns out, we don't know how many 'e-ticket' rides we'll be able to get FPs for or even what an e-ticket ride is.

Still your post does ignore the basis of my post that you are responding to. In my post, the bulk of my rides were on a single 'e-ticket' ride. I still get to ride that ride twice without waiting in a long line. As a bonus, I get two additional advance FP+s and anything that I may or may not receive same-day. Even if I don't get same-day FP+s, I still have two fastpasses that I would not have under the current system. Further, it should be noted that under the current system, I pretty much always ride all of the big rides at DHS in addition to using my FPs how I like to.

I'm not losing anything.

FP+ is coming. We will adapt to it and benefit from it. The sky is not falling.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Assume that is true, that the only difference is knowing before you get there whether you are in the 30,000 that won't get a fastpass that day. Isn't that still better?

if you got one ahead of time, now you don't need to wake up as early and join the herd at RD, many guests would prefer that.

if you were unable at least you know you will miss it or plan to ride standby so you can plan for that or manage expectations better. If I can't get a fp+ for something I really want it encourages me to get there early before the SB line gets out of control. If I'm hopping over to DHS after a morning in another park I don't have to worry about my kids hopes getting too high and crushed, etc...

Just like everyone had equal chance to know about RD and run to the fp kiosks everyone will have equal opportunity to get the fp+ slots.

Honestly, I think the same people who complain about not being able to get a FP for TSMM at noon because they are already gone will complain even louder if they are shut out ahead of time (whether it is 60 days before arrival or the day before they go).

Again, this may all be a moot point. We still don't know if all FPs will be bookable in advance or if they will hold some back for day of reservations.

 

[HelenParr]

It's the projecting that's the problem. I understand it can be hard to acknowledge that in the big scheme "you" don't matter. Disney has been marketing the opposite for years, but the truth is.. to abuse a quote: "That you believe in the power of dreams is of little consequence."

How I am projecting by saying that I will not enjoy 1 FP+ as much as 3 FPs? Doesn't even require guesswork to come to that conclusion.

Hard to acknowledge that I don't matter to Disney?
..the truth is...
Power of dreams...

What are you talking about?

I am of the opinon this new system will not work well, variables dependent. I have a great deal of Disney World experience, as many of us do. I am not getting how your personal opinion is "fact" or "truth" that negates other opinions.

 

[bigAWL]

I don't think it's about limiting anyone to a number of rides. It's about spreading the opportunity to ride at least once without a long wait.

Sorry, opportunity is the wrong word, because everyone has the same opportunity now. They want more people to ACTUALLY ride at least once without a long wait.

 

[ttintagel]

Seems to me it would have been a whole lot simpler to use all that cash to build more attractions or something. Open up a couple of the shuttered quick-service locations. Widen some pathways. Beef up the transportation infrastructure.

Of course, that would mean hiring people, and that seems to be the last thing any modern corporation wants to spend their money on.

 

[dadddio]

This was us pre FP+. We have been to DW many, many times and have no interest in ever waiting in a line exceeding 30 min. We took advantage of rope drop and FP to ride with little to no wait. While I'm trying to stay optimistic, what has been released so far regarding FP+ will be very limiting to us and a dramatic downgrade to our experiences in the past. We, like others, will wait to see how all this actually plays out but as of right now, I won't be rushing to book a trip anytime soon.

The only thing that has actually been released is that you will be able to choose 3 FPs in advance. They have not specifically stated whether you will be able to choose additional ones when in the park. Given this, I cannot state that 'based on what has been released' my experience will be downgraded. I can say that based on what has been released, my experience may be significantly upgraded.

 

[mom2rtk]

Maybe they should just open the parks at 11. That's when most folks apparently arrive. And just think of all the labor costs they could save.

 

[doconeill]

But there is still the reported limiting factor on only being able to get one E-ticket FP+ per day. If Disney wants me to only ride everything once, then give the opportunity to ride everything once. Making me stand in the standby line for 3 of the 4 E-to-D-tickets greatly reduces my ability to ride them.

Oh yeah, they want me to stay longer and do it on multiple days...

Too many people putting words in the suits' mouths presuming they know what Disney wants us to do...the only certainly out of all of this is they want us to spend more money with them.