FP + What we know and what we want to know

[JimmyV]

Just be sure you are around when the FP+ system has been fully implemented and up and running for several months.

We will then compare your predictions with what actually transpired.

We don't need to wait. Unless there are changes, seasoned guests will go from obtaining 5 or 6 FP per day for major attractions to obtaining one. That is not a prediction so much as it is an explanation (according to WDW itself) of how the system is designed. You are free to fill in the blanks as to how you think this will benefit or impact the guests.

Here's a simple truth. Guests who spend their entire day riding rides do not spend as much money as guests who spend time in restaurants, shops and other marketable venues (such as BBB, golf courses, marinas, etc.) Here's another simple truth. WDW has invested $1,000,000,000.00 (that's nine zeros before the decimal point) in this system and will need to realize a return on investment. Again, you are free to fill in the blanks as to whether this new system is designed to put more fannies in the seats of attractions, or draw more cash out of the wallets and purses of the guests.

 

[mesaboy2]

Seems to me it would have been a whole lot simpler to use all that cash to build more attractions or something. Open up a couple of the shuttered quick-service locations. Widen some pathways. Beef up the transportation infrastructure.

Of course, that would mean hiring people, and that seems to be the last thing any modern corporation wants to spend their money on.

They are already doing most of these things, including those I bolded.

 

[Missyrose]

I've yet to see an intelligent or well articulated argument for why anyone should be allowed to ride something 6 times in a day with less than 20 minute waits while 5 other families are forced to wait 2 hours or more or not ride at all.

I'm sure this will be dismissed as non-intelligent or not well-articulated, but I think the frustration comes from the fact that in the current system you get from the system whatever effort you put into it. If you want to wake up at the crack of dawn and get to the parks at rope drop, you can ride your favorite rides multiple times per day with little to no wait.

If you get to the park later in the day, you have the choice of what attraction you'd like to pull a FP for (with the exception of TSM) upon arrival and if you stay on top of your FP windows, can pull a couple of more FPs through the afternoon.

Under the new system you have to figure out months in advance the one headliner you're going to want to ride that day.

 

[JimmyV]

The only thing that has actually been released is that you will be able to choose 3 FPs in advance. They have not specifically stated whether you will be able to choose additional ones when in the park. Given this, I cannot state that 'based on what has been released' my experience will be downgraded. I can say that based on what has been released, my experience may be significantly upgraded.

Agree 100%. But they haven't stated that you will be able to do that, and that would be a very easy thing to announce. As I stated, (perhaps a bit loosely), unless there are changes, there will be a downgrade to certain people's experience. But as you rightly point out, that statement should really read: "Unless there are changes to what has actually been released to date..." There is no reason to conclude at this point that the "3 FP+ per day and only one major attraction" limitations are set in stone. But it sure would be nice (and easy) for WDW to correct this misapprehension if that is in fact the intended plan.

 

[mousermerf]

Just a quick note - the system can go live any day after January 21st.

 

[jade1]

Perhaps you missed the "if that's too frustrating"?

And "Will be done" is a future tense, is it not?

If you'd like to comb through my 17K other posts, that's fine. Have at it. But nowhere have I said yet that I am done. In fact I'm scoping out accommodations for DLR as we speak. And I have said all along that I will try WDW one more time when this washes out.

THEN. I will decide if I am done.

Perhaps you missed the "Is this one?" not "This is one".

 

[mom2rtk]

Exactly! That's why they aren't investing in new attractions like a Little Mermaid ride, Dwarf's Mine Train, double Dumbo, SOTMK, Avatarland (though who knows about that one)... oh, wait...

Yes, they have added some great new things. I love what I have seen of New Fantasyland so far. But not enough to make up for my loss of FP usage from the 6 or 7 a day I probably average, down to 3. And all the way down to 1 on a given attraction.

I still think a lot of this stems from complaints about TSMM and Soarin. And that has to do with a decided underwhelming number of comparable rides in those parks.

 

[mom2rtk]

Perhaps you missed the "Is this one?" not "This is one".

Well, I believe I did.

Then the answer is "no, it's not".

 

[dadddio]

This. While the change may be a net wash "on average", there is no dobut that it will have a profound effect on commandos, and that is a large demographic on this board. It simply cannot be the case that transitioning from 6 FPs per day at major attractions over to 1 FP+ per day at a major attraction will work out favorably, or even as "a wash" for that particualr individual. It that person spends 100 minutes in line at a major attraction, that one line might absorb more of that person's wait time than the cumulative wait time that they experienced in days passed. Sort of like the old adage: "According to the law of averages, if I have my head in a hot oven and my foot in an ice bucket, on average, I should be comfortable."

It isn't a net wash 'on average'. More people being able to use the fastpass line will tend to speed up the standby line because many of those people won't turn around and wait in a long standby line. They'll go do something else, instead. The only way that the wait becomes a 'net wash' is if more people who previously would not have ridden the ride, at all, are able to now ride it. That would be a 'net wash' as far as average wait time is concerned, but would be a great improvement in regards to overall customer satisfaction.

 

[jade1]

Well, I believe I did.

Then the answer is "no, it's not".

Wouldn't that have been easier?

 

[WillAustin]

I still think a lot of this stems from complaints about TSMM and Soarin. And that has to do with a decided underwhelming number of comparable rides in those parks.

Good thing the recent expansion was in those parks...

Oh wait...

 

[mcd2745]

We don't need to wait. Unless there are changes, seasoned guests will go from obtaining 5 or 6 FP per day for major attractions to obtaining one. That is not a prediction so much as it is an explanation (according to WDW itself) of how the system is designed. You are free to fill in the blanks as to how you think this will benefit or impact the guests.

Here's a simple truth. Guests who spend their entire day riding rides do not spend as much money as guests who spend time in restaurants, shops and other marketable venues (such as BBB, golf courses, marinas, etc.) Here's another simple truth. WDW has invested $1,000,000,000.00 (that's nine zeros before the decimal point) in this system and will need to realize a return on investment. Again, you are free to fill in the blanks as to whether this new system is designed to put more fannies in the seats of attractions, or draw more cash out of the wallets and purses of the guests.

But they have to know you, me, and everyone else, are not going to be drawing "more cash out of (our) wallets and purses" while waiting in a standby line. So I can't imagine they are building a system that will keep everyone in standby lines all day.

 

[doconeill]

Yes, they have added some great new things. I love what I have seen of New Fantasyland so far. But not enough to make up for my loss of FP usage from the 6 or 7 a day I probably average, down to 3. And all the way down to 1 on a given attraction.

I still think a lot of this stems from complaints about TSMM and Soarin. And that has to do with a decided underwhelming number of comparable rides in those parks.

If a lot of this is just due to TSM and Soarin', then it is a sledgehammer fix for something that just needed a twist with a screwdriver...they could have limited guests to one FP at select attractions, etc.

"Due to overwhelming popularity of this attraction, guests will be limited to no more than one Fastpass per day..."

 

[dadddio]

But my daughter did ride ToT 5 times one night on our last trip. And she didn't push a single person out of the way to collect those fastpasses. Didn't hit any top secret buttons to sneak an extra FP out out of the machine. Didn't print any fakes at home before we arrived. Nothing. Just did what every other guest had available to them. She watched the times and collected them and used them at the appropriate times. Would she have rather not walked across the park that many times to collect them? Sure, but she put in the effort, and she got the payoff.

If your daughter only gets to ride ToT twice one her next visit, will it ruin her trip?

 

[cindyfan]

This describes us exactly. Never a line greater than 15-20 minutes, even in mid-July. Literally, never.

That is me and my family totally!!!

We literally used FP 5-8 times in a day.... multiple times on same rides, multiple parks.
My DD claims to be an expert at figuring out what ride SB and what to get FP first, etc. And I won't wait in SB for longer than 20 minutes.... and that includes our trips over July 4th! The only thing that ruined it was trying to get ahead of those crazy tour groups in July!!!

 

[JimmyV]

That was a really long post that I decided to snip when it got to a point where it was speculating as to how the program will work. As it turns out, we don't know how many 'e-ticket' rides we'll be able to get FPs for or even what an e-ticket ride is. While that is true as far as it goes, we do know that the test system as well as the announcements to date say nothing about additional FP+ allotment. It seems as if you are banking your approval of the new system on features that have not, to date, been used or announced. But let's hope that they are.

Still your post does ignore the basis of my post that you are responding to. In my post, the bulk of my rides were on a single 'e-ticket' ride. I didn't ignore it. It's just that I think one family riding the same ride 6 times in a day is not the norm and does not really need to be accounted for in this discussion. I'm not at all sure why it makes a difference if you are talking about one e-ticket ride 6 times, or 6 e-ticket rides one time each.I still get to ride that ride twice without waiting in a long line. As a bonus, I get two additional advance FP+s and anything that I may or may not receive same-day. Even if I don't get same-day FP+s, I still have two fastpasses that I would not have under the current system. But here's the rub. You have been "given" two "bonus" FP+ that you would not otherwise have, because you otherwise would not want them. You have traded a FP that would allow you to bypass a 100 minute line in favor of receiving a FP+ allowing you to transform a 25 minute wait into a 5 minute wait. A benefit to be sure. But not one that many people would trade for, even up.Further, it should be noted that under the current system, I pretty much always ride all of the big rides at DHS in addition to using my FPs how I like to.

I'm not losing anything.

FP+ is coming. We will adapt to it and benefit from it. The sky is not falling.

No. The sky is not falling. But here we will probably have to agree to disagree. You believe that WDW invested $1 billion dollars on a system that would allow more efficient use of attractions that generate no revenue. I believe that WDW invested $1 billion on a system that is designed to get people to utilize offerings other than attractions so that they will spend more money. In the business world, if you are correct and people find their attraction maximization to be greater causing them to ride more rides and spend less time in revenue-generating venues, then heads will roll. Sort of like the guy who invents a pill that would allow guests at all-you-care-to eat restaurants to never feel full, allowing them to eat three times more food. Great for the guest. But the guy who chose to provide that pill to the guests would be fired by the restaurant.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

If a lot of this is just due to TSM and Soarin', then it is a sledgehammer fix for something that just needed a twist with a screwdriver...they could have limited guests to one FP at select attractions, etc.

"Due to overwhelming popularity of this attraction, guests will be limited to no more than one Fastpass per day..."

Exactly.

Which is why this is NOT simply about just one thing. So much has gone into it and the TRUE why will never be known by anyone who wasn't sitting in the many, many R&D meetings. I don't care what is said to the media, travel agents, trade groups and the like. They can spin it anyway they want but they don't have to tell us the REAL reason why (and I don't expect them to).

 

[WillAustin]

If your daughter only gets to ride ToT twice one her next visit, will it ruin her trip?

I know my son would be very disappointed if he only got to ride Test Track twice. But we definitely wouldn't wait in a 60 minute line to get a third ride, so in effect, I guess we'd be getting out of everyone else's way. Hooray for everyone else.

It's going to depend on the rest of the trip to determine if that is something that downgrades our experience enough to stop coming back or not.

 

[dadddio]

Agree that people who go often are less commando, and more likely to smell the roses, but disagree with your overall inference that this means 1 FP for an E ride per day is not going to cause me a load of unhappiness. I anticipate my level of unhappiness will be extremely high, and I am sure there are others who will feel the same way.

We are there a lot, at least for folks who have to fly to get to WDW. We average 20-25 Disney World days per year, on property. In all those trips, every time we go to the parks (which is pretty much every day we go absent illness or hurricane) we have used more than 1 FP on a major attraction in a day, and rarely at "rope drop", often in different parks on the same day.

I get that we do not know all the answers, and it probably will mutate as it goes along. But I'm curious why you think that experienced Disers cannot accurately assess their own reactions to the proposed situation? I feel very in touch with my Disney preferences, and I have a strong imagination. I can accurately imagine how I am going to react to FP+ relative to the proposed variables.

Your entire post is angst about not being able to get a FP for more than one major attraction per day. We have no way of knowing how many total FPs we will actually be able to obtain each day or whether we will be locked out from getting multiple FPs to 'major attractions'.

 

[JimmyV]

It isn't a net wash 'on average'. More people being able to use the fastpass line will tend to speed up the standby line because many of those people won't turn around and wait in a long standby line. They'll go do something else, instead. The only way that the wait becomes a 'net wash' is if more people who previously would not have ridden the ride, at all, are able to now ride it. That would be a 'net wash' as far as average wait time is concerned, but would be a great improvement in regards to overall customer satisfaction.

This is where you lose me. What is it, exactly, that they are going to go do? They are going to go to another attraction and get in the SB line, making that SB line longer than it was before. And I'm not sure what we are debating. You don't think that it will be a "net wash" and I don't either. I simply stated for the sake of the other poster's argument that at best, it is a net wash. I don't think it will be.