FP + What we know and what we want to know

[Lorilais_mommie]

I'm surprised at how some want to make me feel bad that I think that if I do the work by doing research and being at the park at RD and stay until closing that I think is okay that I get more FPs. Isn't that what we are taught as children? You do the work and you reap the rewards. I don't want anyone to have a bad time on their vacation but why should I be happy that Disney wants to take from my family that will do the work and give it to someone that doesn't want to do the same. I really really do not like getting up early. I am so not a morning person but I do it for Disney so that I can reap my rewards.
!

I agree!

However the world is changing.. How you and i were brought up is no longer the case..

Now it is.. If you want, get it now.. With a click of button..
we now live in the world where everyone gets a trophy and parents blame the teacher if their kids get bad grades.(trust me I've seen it more often then not)

Trying to teach my kids that if you want something you have to earn it, and if you work hard you will reap the rewards, is getting harder and harder..
How do you explain that working hard you can be the best, when everyone is given an equal reward.. If they did the work or not..

Disney is just going with the flow... Of making everyone equal..

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

I agree!

However the world is changing.. How you and i were brought up is no longer the case..

Now it is.. If you want, get it now.. With a click of button..
we now live in the world where everyone gets a trophy and parents blame the teacher if their kids get bad grades.(trust me I've seen it more often then not)

Trying to teach my kids that if you want something you have to earn it, and if you work hard you will reap the rewards, is getting harder and harder..
How do you explain that working hard you can be the best, when everyone is given an equal reward.. If they did the work or not..

Disney is just going with the flow... Of making everyone equal..

I agree with you also. And I understand! My husband is a high school teacher! But we are bad bad people to not want EVERYONE to have the same rewards that we have! Even if they did nothing to deserve it.

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

New question (I think):

Will we be able to see (not reserve, just see) available FP+ inventory without a ticket entered into the sysem? If I were thinking of taking a last minute trip, and didn't yet have tickets, I'd want to know what the FP+ availability was before buying. Also, this would help people figure out when FP+ were running out, so you'd have an idea when you needed to buy tickets by in order to get what you want.

As to the whole superuser resulting in the need for this change:

As others have pointed out (and Mousermerf has NEVER commented on), all they needed to do to maximize the number of unique individuals who got TSM FP was put a limit of 1 FP/person for the rides that ran out of FP (TSM, TT, etc) This would be a simple fix.

They could also make you wait longer before you can get another E ticket FP if you take one (also, already mentioned).

FP+ is NOT about increasing customer satisfaction for the majority, at the expense of the minority superusers. Again, if we were that much of a minority, we wouldn't be causing that many people to not get FPs. And, there were simple adjustments that could have been made to allow FPs to last longer into the day for TSM, TT, etc

FP+ is an attempt to change the way people tour the parks, so they spend more money.

You want FP+ for all 3 mountains? You better plan on 3 MK days, not 2. TT and Soarin? 2 days at EP, not 1. TSM and RnRC? 1 more day at HS. EE and Safari? Another day. 9 days at the parks instead of 5.

Oh, I'll probably spend a lot less time in the parks, also, per day. Why wait in line for Space today, when I have that FP+ for tomorrow? Instead of staying at the parks all day and using FPs throughout the day (and never waiting in line more than 20 min), I'll spend half the day in the parks and go twice as many days. That's not only more days on my ticket, but more lunches, snacks, drinks, etc.

And, if enough people spend less time/day in the park (no more FPs, and tired of waiting in lines), daily attendance can increase. While park capacity won't increase, if more people leave early, more people can get through the gate per day.

One last thought:
FP+ may also be a way to even out guest distribution among the parks. No space FP+ on Sunday? But there is some still left on Wed, go to MK then (and AK on Sun). But, if space sells out on Wed also, maybe it won't make a difference, after all.

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

And another thing:
If you're in the park 3-4 hours longer than someone else, you should be able to go on more rides, and thus need (and use) more FPs. How is this not fair?

How can someone complain that if they spend less time in the park, they go on less rides?

And, if the hours you're in the park are the busiest, you'll have the longest waits (both for SB times, and wait to get next FP). This is true for both time of day, and time of year. How is this not fair?

What's not fair: those who can't get tickets until arrival (military, etc), or who can't get vacation time in advance, will NEVER get a TSM FP+, nor can they do something about it.

I can't imagine someone who can NEVER get to HS in time for a TSM FP. They may CHOOSE to never get there early enough, but they COULD.

 

[Sparkie]

Just a thought...

But perhaps instead of just discussing our displeasure and concerns on this forum, perhaps we should email Disney themselves with our concerns and questions.

Their market research was from a limited sample of guests. Why not provide them with more market research

 

[bas71873]

WHEW! A lot to read and catch up on this morning!

OMG, I have just started trying to educate myself about FP+ and now this thread is up to page 169!

Do you think FP+ will be up & running the first 2 weeks in May?

I am not happy about the new changes for several reasons:

#1 I do not have a smart phone or any high tech device that uses "apps". Even if I did, I certainly wouldn't want to be at the mercy of carrying it around the parks with me so I could be "in the know". I'm suppose to be on vacation!

I know a number of people have already touched on this: Why would you opt into FP+ and buy Park tickets with the hopper option? That does not make sense. If you signed up for FP+, you are stuck at one park because you can't get any FPs at another park on the same day.

I also don't care that Disney wants to limit the number of FP+ you can have on any given day at only 1 park. So what if I like SM and want to use all 3 of my FP+ on that. But according to WDW rules I cannot ride the same ride twice with FP+.

I'm just thinking, that if we are this confused about it, what are the chances that anyone will actually sign up for this program and reserve their FPs ahead of time? I think alot of people (myself included) are intimidated by this new technology and will not use it when it initially opens. Maybe later in the year, when it's been in use for a while, then it will be wise to consider it, especially if you go during a peak time (Halloween, F&W, Christmas).

So, for those reasons, I will take my chances and not use FP+ on my trip in May. I will be using regular, un-leaded FP!

TC

I'm with you tuffcookie. I love my iPhone, A LOT, but I really don't want to be tied to it my entire vacation to see what I can get. I envision everyone walking around, bumping in to one another because everyone is looking down, staring at their phones. Ugh! And I admit to being guilty of doing this now and then just in my everyday life.

I'm also considering ditching my hoppers for our end of Nov/early Dec trip. Depending on whether or not FP- is still available. If it's not, then what is the point of a hopper, except to go wait in SB lines, see some shows & maybe have dinner? I don't like the idea of being tied to one park all day especially since we too would prefer to use our FP on rides we like. We have no interest in parades, meet & greets, and fireworks anymore. We've BTDT and just don't waste our park time with those things any more. '

I guess I'll just wait & see how things shake out this spring/summer before I make any firm plans.

According to Lou Mongelo...regular fastpass is going nowhere.

We can hope! I'm hoping!

Ba-a-a-a-a.... Ugh

I need to stay away from these threads until the big announcements come. It all sounds so awful so far. For us and our touring style that is.

Me too. I'm stressing myself out over what I promised DH would be a stress free, go with the flow, very few ADRs vacation and now I have this FP+ thing to consider. UGH!

 

[bcrook]

Just a thought...

But perhaps instead of just discussing our displeasure and concerns on this forum, perhaps we should email Disney themselves with our concerns and questions.

Their market research was from a limited sample of guests. Why not provide them with more market research

It's hard to write to Disney at this point because all we have is pieces of information. Did you see the response on the first page to Magicfor2? It looks like the company line right now is... If you don't like this, don't opt in. It is voluntary. Someone else no doubt will provide us the rules of market research.

But this is what is great about a thread like this. We have thought through hundreds of scenarios. It is not going to take long to connect the dots when more information comes out. Whichever way Disney goes, we know what to expect.

That being said, people could write to them with questions about their upcoming trips. It is worth a try.

 

[bcrook]

New question (I think):

Will we be able to see (not reserve, just see) available FP+ inventory without a ticket entered into the sysem? If I were thinking of taking a last minute trip, and didn't yet have tickets, I'd want to know what the FP+ availability was before buying. Also, this would help people figure out when FP+ were running out, so you'd have an idea when you needed to buy tickets by in order to get what you want.

As to the whole superuser resulting in the need for this change:

As others have pointed out (and Mousermerf has NEVER commented on), all they needed to do to maximize the number of unique individuals who got TSM FP was put a limit of 1 FP/person for the rides that ran out of FP (TSM, TT, etc) This would be a simple fix.

They could also make you wait longer before you can get another E ticket FP if you take one (also, already mentioned).

FP+ is NOT about increasing customer satisfaction for the majority, at the expense of the minority superusers. Again, if we were that much of a minority, we wouldn't be causing that many people to not get FPs. And, there were simple adjustments that could have been made to allow FPs to last longer into the day for TSM, TT, etc

FP+ is an attempt to change the way people tour the parks, so they spend more money.

You want FP+ for all 3 mountains? You better plan on 3 MK days, not 2. TT and Soarin? 2 days at EP, not 1. TSM and RnRC? 1 more day at HS. EE and Safari? Another day. 9 days at the parks instead of 5.

Oh, I'll probably spend a lot less time in the parks, also, per day. Why wait in line for Space today, when I have that FP+ for tomorrow? Instead of staying at the parks all day and using FPs throughout the day (and never waiting in line more than 20 min), I'll spend half the day in the parks and go twice as many days. That's not only more days on my ticket, but more lunches, snacks, drinks, etc.

And, if enough people spend less time/day in the park (no more FPs, and tired of waiting in lines), daily attendance can increase. While park capacity won't increase, if more people leave early, more people can get through the gate per day.

One last thought:
FP+ may also be a way to even out guest distribution among the parks. No space FP+ on Sunday? But there is some still left on Wed, go to MK then (and AK on Sun). But, if space sells out on Wed also, maybe it won't make a difference, after all.

Mom2rtk brought your first question up before also. I will add it to the technical section of the first page. Maybe that is a benefit to acing an annal pass linked to your account. Then you could always see what us available? What you are suggesting is like dining a dvc reservations - search the FP inventory first then decide to visit. Good question.

As for the other parts - it sounds like you are about where I am. This doesn't seem like it is based on social justice, but rather a new economic policy. We will see.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

Mom2rtk brought your first question up before also. I will add it to the technical section of the first page. Maybe that is a benefit to acing an annal pass linked to your account. Then you could always see what us available? What you are suggesting is like dining a dvc reservations - search the FP inventory first then decide to visit. Good question.

As for the other parts - it sounds like you are about where I am. This doesn't seem like it is based on social justice, but rather a new economic policy. We will see.

I wonder if we have an AP attached to our account but no hotel booking, if we can just make reservations for anytime within the booking period.

 

[bcrook]

I wonder if we have an AP attached to our account but no hotel booking, if we can just make reservations for anytime within the booking period.

And that takes us back to mousermerf's contention with the 20 FP+ reservations per quarter. But I would imagine everyone would still have to be within the 60 days.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

And that takes us back to mousermerf's contention with the 20 FP+ reservations per quarter. But I would imagine everyone would still have to be within the 60 days.

That would be alright. Even we could just make the reservations 6 months in advance, we could always make the reservation and then cancel if our plans changed.

 

[doconeill]

I'm not putting much stock in Fastpass staying (I know Lou, but I'm not sure where he got his info...haven't listened to the latest podcast yet) or MyMagic+/FastPass+ being "pay to play" - I can't find anything recent from Al Lutz on the subject regarding WDW, and Disney's publically stated it is for everyone. Whether there are "additional" FP+s, well, there could be but I think the likelyhood is quite low.

And the idea that DVC members don't pay...they did. In advance. WAY in advance.

 

[seashoreCM]

They could also make you wait longer before you can get another E ticket FP if you take one (also, already mentioned)..

By the way, this capability already exists.

The "lockout" time before you can get the next fastpass can be different for each ride.

(Fetching is commutative; if you got the Splash Mountain fastpass first, you can still get the Mickey meet and greet fastpass whose lockout time is about five minutes, five minutes later which means as soon as you can get back to the front of the park where its kiosks are.)

Did someone mention the reduction in paper waste if/when Fastpass is converted to an all electronic system with bracelets, etc.? Let's not forget that oodles (bazillions) of slips with a black spot "not a valid fastpass, you already have a fastpass ..." do get printed.

 

[katdralion]

As to the whole superuser resulting in the need for this change:

As others have pointed out (and Mousermerf has NEVER commented on), all they needed to do to maximize the number of unique individuals who got TSM FP was put a limit of 1 FP/person for the rides that ran out of FP (TSM, TT, etc) This would be a simple fix.

They could also make you wait longer before you can get another E ticket FP if you take one (also, already mentioned).

FP+ is NOT about increasing customer satisfaction for the majority, at the expense of the minority superusers. Again, if we were that much of a minority, we wouldn't be causing that many people to not get FPs. And, there were simple adjustments that could have been made to allow FPs to last longer into the day for TSM, TT, etc

FP+ is an attempt to change the way people tour the parks, so they spend more money.

And another thing:
If you're in the park 3-4 hours longer than someone else, you should be able to go on more rides, and thus need (and use) more FPs. How is this not fair?

How can someone complain that if they spend less time in the park, they go on less rides?

And, if the hours you're in the park are the busiest, you'll have the longest waits (both for SB times, and wait to get next FP). This is true for both time of day, and time of year. How is this not fair?

What's not fair: those who can't get tickets until arrival (military, etc), or who can't get vacation time in advance, will NEVER get a TSM FP+, nor can they do something about it.

I can't imagine someone who can NEVER get to HS in time for a TSM FP. They may CHOOSE to never get there early enough, but they COULD.

I agree with all of this. The old system was fair to all, everyone had the same chance on the day but FP+ is not fair to people who for whatever reason can't plan in advance, do not have advance tickets or do not have access to the technology.

 

[mom2rtk]

Will we be able to see (not reserve, just see) available FP+ inventory without a ticket entered into the sysem? If I were thinking of taking a last minute trip, and didn't yet have tickets, I'd want to know what the FP+ availability was before buying. Also, this would help people figure out when FP+ were running out, so you'd have an idea when you needed to buy tickets by in order to get what you want.

Currently with the dining system you CAN see what ADRs are available before you decide to add the dining plan. I just can't see them expecting people to book trips (especially of the last minute variety) without knowing if FP will be available to them.

This of course is a double edged sword for Disney. If the top tier rides do indeed "sell out", it could keep people from following through and booking said trip.

 

[lugnut33]

I'm not putting much stock in Fastpass staying (I know Lou, but I'm not sure where he got his info...haven't listened to the latest podcast yet) or MyMagic+/FastPass+ being "pay to play" - I can't find anything recent from Al Lutz on the subject regarding WDW, and Disney's publically stated it is for everyone. Whether there are "additional" FP+s, well, there could be but I think the likelyhood is quite low.

And the idea that DVC members don't pay...they did. In advance. WAY in advance.

Here is his exact quote:

As you read all the articles about this project that are starting to appear in the mainstream media, dont forget that the primary reason behind the RFID and other NextGen programs at Disney is to increase revenues  with the ease of use factor (the focus of the many interviews you will now see with Disney execs) really just a way to defuse any serious questions about their intensive information collection. Sure you want to book your Fastpasses ahead of time? Well the long term plan is to only offer that perk to you after you buy a vacation package at a higher tier/level of amenities. (Likewise with key dining times, reserved prime viewing spots for parades/shows/fireworks.) Of course, if a good deal of the seats for a major ride are already reserved for those that book at that higher level, it will increase the regular lines (and frustration) for those who book at the standard tier  so thats why they are trying to plus all the queues with all these new interactive elements before this starts going into effect.

Its evident that the cruise business and its revenue model have them looking again at how they sell the parks and resorts. As you probably know, other than walking onto the ship, just about everything else on many cruises is offered for an upcharge or extra fee. As NextGen starts to roll out on land, expect to also see seasonally adjusted admission pricing, more and more holiday events/entertainment offered as a separate ticket, and priority boarding at rides determined by what the visitor will want to pay for his room or trip package.

It's from this article, near the bottom:
http://micechat.com/19433-bibbidi-bobbidi-barcode/

Oh, I forgot, he also mentioned this:

Once the NextGen project arrives in Anaheim in 2014, and completes the metamorphosis of Fastpass and trip planning in Anaheim by 2015, all of the Fastpass machines will be removed from the various attractions anyway. Most Fastpass reservations will be done online or at park kiosks and handled by your MagicBand bracelet, so the banks of machines at each ride spitting out paper tickets will become a relic from the previous decade. (Start your ticket collections now.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

Currently with the dining system you CAN see what ADRs are available before you decide to add the dining plan. I just can't see them expecting people to book trips (especially of the last minute variety) without knowing if FP will be available to them.

This of course is a double edged sword for Disney. If the top tier rides do indeed "sell out", it could keep people from following through and booking said trip.

If we were looking at booking a last minute holiday, I would check out FP+. If we couldn't get anything decent, we wouldn't book. I could probably live without ADR's for a short trip but not without FP for certain rides.

I also wonder what will happen with people who still aren't aware of FP+ when they book. I've heard SO many people who have booked the DDP or just booked a Disney holiday, can't get into a restaurant and then get angry. "What do you mean we can't get a table? I'm on the dining plan! What do you mean I had to book six months ago?" I've heard it so often. Can you imagine if people find out they could have had a 10 minute wait for Space Mountain but instead, they have to ride standby for an hour??? Poor ride CM's

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Here is his exact quote:



It's from this article, near the bottom:
http://micechat.com/19433-bibbidi-bobbidi-barcode/

It would make sense to offer it for free for awhile before charging for it. However, it could also backfire hugely on them that they back off this notion before it ever gets implemented.

This is one "what if" I am not losing any sleep over now.

 

[doconeill]

Here is his exact quote:



It's from this article, near the bottom:
http://micechat.com/19433-bibbidi-bobbidi-barcode/

Oh, I forgot, he also mentioned this:

Interesting...he's saying it is the "long term" plan. How long term he doesn't say. If Disney rolls it out to everyone, completes the conversion to FP+ only, and then turns around and says, "Now it's only for Resort guests", many, many people will be upset. (worthy of a first post question I think...)

They could also do things differently at DLR.


The addendum falls in line with our expectations that FP really will go away.

 

[katdralion]

OK, this is from Al Lutz, so you can take it or leave it (though I do feel he is right most of the time). He says that this WILL replace the fastpass system we all know (Disney has no intention of keeping those FP machines around) and it WILL be used to lure people to stay onsite and to upgrade to better resorts. It will become a pay for play system.

While mousemerf says it's 3 per day, it won't stay that way for long.

If this is true and DVC members are excluded, why would anyone buy into DVC in the future? People buy into DVC because of the Disney Parks and being treated like a Disney resort hotel guest. There are much nicer timeshare accommodations offsite at a fraction of the cost!


Yes, DVC were excluded from FD but I think to most this wasn't a deal breaker. Although to be honest, we would not have bought into DVC after FD was offered, it definitely diminshed its value for us! But if the current FP system disappears (which seems likely at this point) and regular park guest are only allowed 1 FP+ for a headliner, xtra FP+ for onsite guests will be a huge advantage. One which I don't think people will be willing to give up for DVC. I know we wouldn't!