FP+ (No More Paper Fastpasses)

[mom2rtk]

I was not sure how it would work OR if this helps with LONG lines either but at least they are trying SOMETHING different. Honestly, when my young adult kids used FP+ for the 1st time @ WDW they were not so sold on this due to my part of planning for them BUT once they discover that THEY can plan their OWN schedule and could change it when they NEED to...... they LOVED IT !!! Never had to wait more than 10 - 15 minutes on any prearranged ride during our very CROWDED HOLIDAY visits!! So coming back to our home park in DL with our AP's at almost any given time (there are no longer as many slow or off times in DL as a few years ago) to CROWDS sucks!! This is when DVC became our only advantage to not waiting in long lines - EMH !!
Once again I say with no bitterness " We welcome ANY change Disney offers us !!" Enjoy your day!!

I'm all for reducing long lines. But when WDW added FP to a bunch of other attractions that never had it before, it made those lines move even slower (because FP is prioritized before SB). FP lines continue to move pretty fast, but if you are used to getting 6 or more FPs a day for headliners before, and now you only get 3 (because headliner FPs run out so much faster in an electronic world) then you either 1) wait standby now for 3 of your rides or 2) do less in the course of a day.

We travel to DLR from half way across the country. We can't come back next weekend and pick up what we missed on our trip. We can't even schedule an extra couple days to get more done (since 5 days is the only ticket short of an AP). We have to get done what we want to do in the short time we have. Legacy FP has been a great tool for doing that. If the new system strays very far from what Legacy has been, I'm afraid our Disney days might be behind us. (We defected from WDW when FP+ rolled out).

 

[jeffg4]

I'm all for reducing long lines. But when WDW added FP to a bunch of other attractions that never had it before, it made those lines move even slower (because FP is prioritized before SB). FP lines continue to move pretty fast, but if you are used to getting 6 or more FPs a day for headliners before, and now you only get 3 (because headliner FPs run out so much faster in an electronic world) then you either 1) wait standby now for 3 of your rides or 2) do less in the course of a day.

We travel to DLR from half way across the country. We can't come back next weekend and pick up what we missed on our trip. We can't even schedule an extra couple days to get more done (since 5 days is the only ticket short of an AP). We have to get done what we want to do in the short time we have. Legacy FP has been a great tool for doing that. If the new system strays very far from what Legacy has been, I'm afraid our Disney days might be behind us. (We defected from WDW when FP+ rolled out).

Discussions on all the Disney forums prior to FP+ rollout noted that FP+ being offered on attractions that did not previously have FP was going to increase standby wait times across the board, so you can't tell me Disney didn't understand that. With that said, doesn't "doing less in the course of a day" improve Disney's bottom line? Now I need to stay 6 days for what I used to get accomplished in 4 days. So they roll out FP+ under the guise of "being able to pre-plan your FP attractions is a beautiful thing" when in reality, it appears to be a method to simply keep you in the parks longer. We already know that by allowing on-property guests access to FP+ 30 days earlier than off-property guests, they are trying to entice more people to stay on property.

 

[mom2rtk]

Discussions on all the Disney forums prior to FP+ rollout noted that FP+ being offered on attractions that did not previously have FP was going to increase standby wait times across the board, so you can't tell me Disney didn't understand that. With that said, doesn't "doing less in the course of a day" improve Disney's bottom line? Now I need to stay 6 days for what I used to get accomplished in 4 days. So they roll out FP+ under the guise of "being able to pre-plan your FP attractions is a beautiful thing" when in reality, it appears to be a method to simply keep you in the parks longer. We already know that by allowing on-property guests access to FP+ 30 days earlier than off-property guests, they are trying to entice more people to stay on property.

Normally I would agree that doing less in a day could be good for Disney's bottom line. But they have a tough sell to the DLR guest on a 5 day ticket. To stay longer, they would have to purchase a full price single day ticket. (or upgrade to an AP which typically requires another week long trip inside of that year, and not everyone can do that. It's just not an option for us right now.)

Ultimately we all make our own cost/benefit analyses. If things shake out that I get less for more, Disney will also get less, because it means I will pass completely.

 

[jeffg4]

Normally I would agree that doing less in a day could be good for Disney's bottom line. But they have a tough sell to the DLR guest on a 5 day ticket. To stay longer, they would have to purchase a full price single day ticket. (or upgrade to an AP which typically requires another week long trip inside of that year, and not everyone can do that. It's just not an option for us right now.)

Ultimately we all make our own cost/benefit analyses. If things shake out that I get less for more, Disney will also get less, because it means I will pass completely.

I agree, but a lot of people don't realize they're getting less for more until after the fact. The savvy Disney vets might realize it and choose to pass, but a large portion of guests, more so at WDW I would think, are newbies. I wonder how many guests who had originally planned an off day or day at the pool upgrade their ticket to include one more day because "they couldn't get done what they wanted to."

 

[monorailrabbit]

I'm all for reducing long lines. But when WDW added FP to a bunch of other attractions that never had it before, it made those lines move even slower (because FP is prioritized before SB). FP lines continue to move pretty fast, but if you are used to getting 6 or more FPs a day for headliners before, and now you only get 3 (because headliner FPs run out so much faster in an electronic world) then you either 1) wait standby now for 3 of your rides or 2) do less in the course of a day.

We travel to DLR from half way across the country. We can't come back next weekend and pick up what we missed on our trip. We can't even schedule an extra couple days to get more done (since 5 days is the only ticket short of an AP). We have to get done what we want to do in the short time we have. Legacy FP has been a great tool for doing that. If the new system strays very far from what Legacy has been, I'm afraid our Disney days might be behind us. (We defected from WDW when FP+ rolled out).

This exactly. I won't get on my rant about how rides (especially at Epcot) now have lines that never did because of this. One of the reasons we were so excited to come to DLR was to go back to legacy. So much easier and smoother. I hope it will stay like it was just paperless. And PLEASE add wifi!

 

[Niltiac]

doesn't "doing less in the course of a day" improve Disney's bottom line? Now I need to stay 6 days for what I used to get accomplished in 4 days. So they roll out FP+ under the guise of "being able to pre-plan your FP attractions is a beautiful thing" when in reality, it appears to be a method to simply keep you in the parks longer.

I get the basis of what you're saying, which is basically that not very decision Disney makes is to improve customer experience, so we shouldn't take it on faith that any change will be for our benefit, and I agree with that. But if I'm understanding this theory right, I don't think the math works out.

Regardless of what's going on with fp, the same number of people are going to get on to a ride over the course of an operating day. The only thing changing is who is getting on the ride. So if as suggested you can only get 3 headliner passes when you used to get 6, if the number of fp offered per day hasn't changed that means someone else got those other 3. You can't get as many as before because other people who didn't know how to use the paper fp system are jumping in and using the digital system. That's the only reason I can think of that fp would run out faster "in a digital world". So it takes you, someone who was already using fp effectively, a longer trip to accomplish the same goals. But it takes someone else, who otherwise would have ridden standby for every ride, less time. If there are the same number of rides with the same capacity and the same number of guests, it will still take the same average amount of time for each guest to ride what they want. But the time spent waiting will be more evenly shared among guests, rather than those who understand the system being able to blow through 3x as many attractions as someone who is new. I don't see how Disney benefits from this financially.

That said, it doesn't really sound like the proposed system is going to be like fp+ in WDW. I was just going off of the premise that you will get on fewer rides. And if that turns out to be true, that means someone else is riding instead of you, so someone is benefiting from the system.

 

[agamble]

Regardless of what's going on with fp, the same number of people are going to get on to a ride over the course of an operating day. The only thing changing is who is getting on the ride. So if as suggested you can only get 3 headliner passes when you used to get 6, if the number of fp offered per day hasn't changed that means someone else got those other 3. You can't get as many as before because other people who didn't know how to use the paper fp system are jumping in and using the digital system. That's the only reason I can think of that fp would run out faster "in a digital world".

It may not just be that those in the know can’t get 6 FP anymore because others now have them. First of all, a lot of Disneyland visitors do know about FP and how to use it as most are repeat visitors. But one possibility of running out of FP faster is simply because they can book on their phone they do not have to walk all the way to the ride. This may cause more people to book a ride time they later choose not to use. There was less investment in getting that ticket than if they had had to walk all the way from Space to Splash to get the FP. Also, people won’t be able to hand the FP to another visitor. So the FP will in effect be wasted. The same number of people will ride the ride, but the same number of FP may or may not be used.

I think one big complaint about WDW FP+ is that people book up the headliners a month or two out. However, if Disneyland FP+ require you to be in the park I don’t think it will be a huge change. Some things will likely run out a bit faster, but that’s for everyone’s convenience. I do wonder if you’ll have to scan your ticket at the park to use it. Right now you can go to DL and send a runner to DCA to get FP for RSR. If they require your ticket to be scanned at the park in question then the whole party would indeed have to go to DCA. This could be almost comical in the morning if a party enters the parks, uses their phone to book a FP, exits the park and enters the other to make a FP reservation for that park. LOL! Perhaps they’ll end up linking both parks FPs together so you can truly only hold on FP at a time. That is something that could truly hurt those in the know, but in the end benefit everyone as it would help keep headliners from being booked too fast.

 

[mom2rtk]

It may not just be that those in the know can’t get 6 FP anymore because others now have them. First of all, a lot of Disneyland visitors do know about FP and how to use it as most are repeat visitors. But one possibility of running out of FP faster is simply because they can book on their phone they do not have to walk all the way to the ride. This may cause more people to book a ride time they later choose not to use. There was less investment in getting that ticket than if they had had to walk all the way from Space to Splash to get the FP. Also, people won’t be able to hand the FP to another visitor. So the FP will in effect be wasted. The same number of people will ride the ride, but the same number of FP may or may not be used.

I think one big complaint about WDW FP+ is that people book up the headliners a month or two out. However, if Disneyland FP+ require you to be in the park I don’t think it will be a huge change. Some things will likely run out a bit faster, but that’s for everyone’s convenience. I do wonder if you’ll have to scan your ticket at the park to use it. Right now you can go to DL and send a runner to DCA to get FP for RSR. If they require your ticket to be scanned at the park in question then the whole party would indeed have to go to DCA. This could be almost comical in the morning if a party enters the parks, uses their phone to book a FP, exits the park and enters the other to make a FP reservation for that park. LOL! Perhaps they’ll end up linking both parks FPs together so you can truly only hold on FP at a time. That is something that could truly hurt those in the know, but in the end benefit everyone as it would help keep headliners from being booked too fast.

Yeah, I thought about that the other day. I don't see any way the parks don't get linked in this deal. I think the days of getting FPs in both parks back to back would be over with this.

We hop back and forth a lot, but we really have never been commando enough to send a runner into the other park for FPs. It was easy enough to maximize with adding that layer.

 

[GatorChris]

I'm all for reducing long lines. But when WDW added FP to a bunch of other attractions that never had it before, it made those lines move even slower (because FP is prioritized before SB). FP lines continue to move pretty fast, but if you are used to getting 6 or more FPs a day for headliners before, and now you only get 3 (because headliner FPs run out so much faster in an electronic world) then you either 1) wait standby now for 3 of your rides or 2) do less in the course of a day.

We travel to DLR from half way across the country. We can't come back next weekend and pick up what we missed on our trip. We can't even schedule an extra couple days to get more done (since 5 days is the only ticket short of an AP). We have to get done what we want to do in the short time we have. Legacy FP has been a great tool for doing that. If the new system strays very far from what Legacy has been, I'm afraid our Disney days might be behind us. (We defected from WDW when FP+ rolled out).

I agree with this completely. One of the major reasons we don't spend a little bit more cash to go to WDW is because of FP+. I already wasn't big on planning meals 6 months out. But now you have to book rides 2 months out. Rides!!! Do you know how dumb that sounds? I have to book rides 2 months out????

After FP+ launched, everyone on the WDW boards started complaining that short lines at POTC had now doubled because of FP+. Why would we want to bring that to DL? Answer: we wouldn't.

Vote No for DL FP+.

 

[Niltiac]

It may not just be that those in the know can’t get 6 FP anymore because others now have them. First of all, a lot of Disneyland visitors do know about FP and how to use it as most are repeat visitors. But one possibility of running out of FP faster is simply because they can book on their phone they do not have to walk all the way to the ride. This may cause more people to book a ride time they later choose not to use. There was less investment in getting that ticket than if they had had to walk all the way from Space to Splash to get the FP. Also, people won’t be able to hand the FP to another visitor. So the FP will in effect be wasted. The same number of people will ride the ride, but the same number of FP may or may not be used.

That is true, but if fewer people who hold fp are using them, then their "spots" on the ride will be used by people in the standby line, and that line will move proportionately faster. My point was that I don't think it makes sense to assume that disney is profiting from this by making people stay more days in the park, because the limiting factor of how many people get to ride a given ride per day is the ride capacity, not the availability of fp. If you find you are able to ride fewer rides per day because of a change in the fp system, then someone else (probably someone who wasn't using fp effectively before) must be riding more rides per day and the average length of stay probably won't be affected.

Regarding having your ticket scanned, I don't know if it's practical but it would be nice in a way if you only have to physically be present at the parks (connected to their hopefully-to-be-installed wifi) to book, because then we could all book the first fp while waiting in line at the esplanade. Otherwise I'm afraid everyone will start looking at their phones as soon as they go through the turnstiles and cause a traffic jam. But that might open up the door for people to cheat somehow and get fp for tickets that aren't even going to be used that day.

 

[carrierael77]

I was a big no no no to it coming to DL, but seeing as it will be exactly the same, save the paper I am okay with it, I guess (I will miss having those little slips in my hands). My husband will have so much more time as he won't be running back and forth to get FP.

I am curious about how a couple things will shake down. 1. Will more rides get FP (I'm looking at you Peter Pan). And 2. How will this impact getting FP at DCA and DL. Hmmmm.

 

[agamble]

Regarding having your ticket scanned, I don't know if it's practical but it would be nice in a way if you only have to physically be present at the parks (connected to their hopefully-to-be-installed wifi) to book, because then we could all book the first fp while waiting in line at the esplanade. Otherwise I'm afraid everyone will start looking at their phones as soon as they go through the turnstiles and cause a traffic jam. But that might open up the door for people to cheat somehow and get fp for tickets that aren't even going to be used that day.

Because of potential issues I really, really hope ticket has to be scanned and activated to book a FP. I wouldn't mind too much if we could get a FP for DCA while in DL, it would be nice. But I think the ticket needs to be activated that day to get a FP.

I do understand what you mean by the same number of riders overall, but I also understand why some feel they would have a lesser experience if they're used to 6 headliners and can now only get three. They have a way and a plan and don't like the idea of that diminishing.

 

[HydroGuy]

Regardless of what's going on with fp, the same number of people are going to get on to a ride over the course of an operating day. The only thing changing is who is getting on the ride. So if as suggested you can only get 3 headliner passes when you used to get 6, if the number of fp offered per day hasn't changed that means someone else got those other 3. You can't get as many as before because other people who didn't know how to use the paper fp system are jumping in and using the digital system. That's the only reason I can think of that fp would run out faster "in a digital world". So it takes you, someone who was already using fp effectively, a longer trip to accomplish the same goals. But it takes someone else, who otherwise would have ridden standby for every ride, less time. If there are the same number of rides with the same capacity and the same number of guests, it will still take the same average amount of time for each guest to ride what they want. But the time spent waiting will be more evenly shared among guests, rather than those who understand the system being able to blow through 3x as many attractions as someone who is new. I don't see how Disney benefits from this financially.

That said, it doesn't really sound like the proposed system is going to be like fp+ in WDW. I was just going off of the premise that you will get on fewer rides. And if that turns out to be true, that means someone else is riding instead of you, so someone is benefiting from the system.

There are a lot of assumptions made whenever this topic comes up many of which are not 100% true. This is one.

There are very few rides at DLR that have a constant capacity regardless of time of day. I can think of a few.

At DL:

FantasyLand dark rides
BLAB
Tiki Room
GGC
Space Mtn (I think)
Splash Mtn (I think)
IJ (I think)
Roger Rabbit (I think)
I suppose you could add MT and CSS

At DCA:

MI
LMAUA
TSMM

I may have forgotten a few, but all the other rides change their capacity with time of day. For that matter, they change their capacity with time of year.

What this means is that rides are not fully utilized.

Related to this is that many/most people have a wait time tolerance and many/most will shift to a different ride or just not ride anything when a line gets too long.

The issue for people like mom2rtk is that with legacy FP (like at DLR at present) you get a bonus for being rope drop (RD) arrivers. RD allows you to get those 6 FPs. And it does not take much (or anything) away from those that arrive 2-3 hours after park opening who may only be able to get 3 FPs.

One outcome for FP+ at WDW is that RD does not hold the same advantage as it used to. FP+ benefits people who like to sleep in but not so much for those willing to pay the price to get to the parks early.

Food for thought.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I was a big no no no to it coming to DL, but seeing as it will be exactly the same, save the paper I am okay with it, I guess (I will miss having those little slips in my hands). My husband will have so much more time as he won't be running back and forth to get FP.

I am curious about how a couple things will shake down. 1. Will more rides get FP (I'm looking at you Peter Pan). And 2. How will this impact getting FP at DCA and DL. Hmmmm.

more rides may get fp, but I think rides in FL will be difficult to add it to just due to lack of physical space to put a separate fp line.

 

[hjgaus]

Related to this is that many/most people have a wait time tolerance and many/most will shift to a different ride or just not ride anything when a line gets too long.

The issue for people like mom2rtk is that with legacy FP (like at DLR at present) you get a bonus for being rope drop (RD) arrivers. RD allows you to get those 6 FPs. And it does not take much (or anything) away from those that arrive 2-3 hours after park opening who may only be able to get 3 FPs.

One outcome for FP+ at WDW is that RD does not hold the same advantage as it used to. FP+ benefits people who like to sleep in but not so much for those willing to pay the price to get to the parks early.

Food for thought.

This is true as I had said of my family on this subject. We have never had to arrive for rope drop at DL but are willing to be there for EMH most times.
Never rope drop @ WDW but preferring late night EMH over morning time. Our stay @ WDW is 2 weeks but sometimes 1 of those weeks at another park which gave us plenty of time to spread out the 3 FP+ per day out plus CHANGE times on FP+ when we wanted to !! LOVE having choices!!
At DL when going impromptu as "locals" with AP's it's been most difficult to enjoy rides when regular FP are taken earlier in the day then waiting in long lines is a must but not enjoyable. Thus WHY staying on property @ DL is our only option for rides!
There WAS a time way back when that crowds were not so bad for the "locals" and in turn regular FP's worked out great (still no need for rope drop)
BUT not anymore! NEW rides are coming in the next few years to DL & crowds will get worse.

 

[ClaraOswald]

This is true as I had said of my family on this subject. We have never had to arrive for rope drop at DL but are willing to be there for EMH most times.
Never rope drop @ WDW but preferring late night EMH over morning time. Our stay @ WDW is 2 weeks but sometimes 1 of those weeks at another park which gave us plenty of time to spread out the 3 FP+ per day out plus CHANGE times on FP+ when we wanted to !! LOVE having choices!!
At DL when going impromptu as "locals" with AP's it's been most difficult to enjoy rides when regular FP are taken earlier in the day then waiting in long lines is a must but not enjoyable. Thus WHY staying on property @ DL is our only option for rides!
There WAS a time way back when that crowds were not so bad for the "locals" and in turn regular FP's worked out great (still no need for rope drop)
BUT not anymore! NEW rides are coming in the next few years to DL & crowds will get worse.

To the part in bold....
I am probably just dense but what does staying on property have to do with getting on rides at Disneyland?

 

[kyrkea333]

Is it possible that the Paperless FPs will just go onto the ticket / AP medium?

A bit like the rider return for Guests with any kind of special needs?

For example, my daughter broke her foot 2 days before our November trip and couldn't do stairs. We were able to access rides like Big Thunder through the exit after receiving a return time from the CM at the exit. The CM scanned the barcode on the back of our ticket and annual pass, gave us a return time and then we went away. We returned at the designated time, our ticket / annual pass was scanned again and we were admitted to the ride.

No linking of tickets, no phone needed, and no paper handed out.

Two weeks ago we were in line for Indiana Jones at Disneyland when it broke down. A cast member had us give them one of our tickets and tell them how many people were in our party and scanned the one ticket. No paper fastpass was given out. We were able to use this "fastpass" any time during the day and when we did return, they scanned the same ticket and allowed us to enter the FP line. It was about as fast in return as using a paper FP.

 

[azdisneylover]

In my humble opinion, the location of obtaining fast passes should stay the same, replace the machine giving out the fast passes. My next visit to Disneyland, I will be stopping by City Hall to voice my opinion on this and other things that are on my mind (good, bad or indifferent). I suggest, others do the same. Remember, the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

 

[ImSoExcited]

There are a lot of assumptions made whenever this topic comes up many of which are not 100% true. This is one.

There are very few rides at DLR that have a constant capacity regardless of time of day. I can think of a few.

At DL:

FantasyLand dark rides
BLAB
Tiki Room
GGC
Space Mtn (I think)
Splash Mtn (I think)
IJ (I think)
Roger Rabbit (I think)
I suppose you could add MT and CSS

At DCA:

MI
LMAUA
TSMM

I may have forgotten a few, but all the other rides change their capacity with time of day. For that matter, they change their capacity with time of year.

What this means is that rides are not fully utilized.

Related to this is that many/most people have a wait time tolerance and many/most will shift to a different ride or just not ride anything when a line gets too long.

The issue for people like mom2rtk is that with legacy FP (like at DLR at present) you get a bonus for being rope drop (RD) arrivers. RD allows you to get those 6 FPs. And it does not take much (or anything) away from those that arrive 2-3 hours after park opening who may only be able to get 3 FPs.

One outcome for FP+ at WDW is that RD does not hold the same advantage as it used to. FP+ benefits people who like to sleep in but not so much for those willing to pay the price to get to the parks early.

Food for thought.

Agreed on this and also that booking for FP seems to be akin for restaurant and hotel booking in that they overbook by an amount and expect no-shows. I've been in FP return lines that take longer than an expected return time with FP simply bc everyone has shown up
And they expect a certain amount of attrition.

 

[hjgaus]

To the part in bold....
I am probably just dense but what does staying on property have to do with getting on rides at Disneyland?

Extra Magic Hour time at each park!!! Being there BEFORE Rope drop time !! Majority of the time during EMH to enjoy MOST rides WITHOUT LONG LINES or
even needing ANY kind of Fastpass BUT you STILL need to get in the parks EARLY! We don't really love this but we do it anyway!! Also why we usually stay at the resorts to get EMH!!!
Thus agreeing with HydroGuy " FP+ benefits people who like to sleep in but not so much for those willing to pay the price to get to the parks early." As I said before being a "local" and not wanting to go so early in the morning to enjoy the rides when the parks lately seem to be OVER crowded would be AWESOME & IDEAL!! Although when going for the few hours but rides are too long to wait I am just happy hanging around sometimes cuz I love it @ Disney!!