FP+ is Live! Magic Bands in the park!

[doconeill]

When did this thread turn into the story of "Grumpy vs. Squidgy: The Dichotomy of Disney"?!?

 

[Rileygirl]

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[Rileygirl]

Should I move these posts to another thread? If someone makes a thread, I will copy these posts over if you prefer. Let me know!

 

[Squidgyness]

Well you got the dress style down, I'll give you that! Though I don't even have a license yet, so my theoretical son would be quite right to grab the wheel!

I still wouldn't have booked my tickets 90 days out though, have you seen the prices in the UK?

However, I'll go along with it for arguments sake...

 

[Rileygirl]

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[Rileygirl]

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[Rileygirl]

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[bcrook]

IT people, In this tech utopia would the CM on the iPad be connected to ćompletely separate network that will be unclogged?

In my school we run parallel wifi networks one for teachers and one for students.

 

[maiapapaya]

Ok, wading back in now, with full awareness that some of you are going to label me Mrs. Grumpy for what I'm about to say (I'm doning my flameproof suit as I type this but ...) first, Rileygirl, I fully acknowledge that you're trying to put a positive spin on all of this and have put a lot of time and thought into your posts, but at the end of the day, I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve, convince us all that this is going to be a blow out success for WDW?

Unfortunately I'm still can't buy into it. To begin, a big element of writing Science fiction is the concept of “suspension of disbelief”. You are asking us to all forget/disregard WDW’s terrible IT track record. But the reality is you can't just wish it away. And just because they have this “great idea” that they are going to roll out this fantastical technology doesn’t mean they can do it. You keep saying they must think they can do it or they wouldn’t be doing it. Obviously. But thinking you can do something doesn’t always translate into being able to do it. Point in case is their awesome new website … I'm sure they absolutely thought it would be super cool and interactive. But it reportedly "works" like crap and it's supposed to be an integral part of this whole FP+ system.

The next flaw in your logic is that there's only 10% of WDW visitors, representing the DISers, that this is going to tick off. Even though DISers may be only 10% of WDW's demographic, they are not the only WDW visitors who are return guests, who know how to effectively tour/are used to touring under the current system, who will know that this new system (limiting E-ticket FP’s to one/day, with a total of 3 FP’s) negatively impacts that routine and going to add to standby lines and the crowds at rope drop. There is no way that 80% of Disney visitors are newbies who've never set foot in the MK before.

And, the popcorn is not free & Mr. Grumpy is somewhat clueless if he believes that … he would have had to purchase DP and should be aware of his one snack credit/day. And the CM would never say “oh the popcorn’s free …” they would ask you if you are on the DP & if you want to use it as one of your credits.

Yes, in a Utopian WDW your scenario might be close to how they imagined, in a perfect world, Magic Bands and FP+ were going to work, but it seems unlikely and if they could get it fully working like you imagine it will be YEARS. And in the mean time Universal is building HP2 and other new stuff while all WDW has to offer is the "rubber arm bands", as previously mentioned, and a lot of annoyed return guests.

As has been said, there are a lot of repeat guests who get Disneyed-out, or want to try new things or who's kids want to move on to the bigger thrill rides of Universal. FP+ is going to do nothing to stop them. In fact, if the roll-out is a bumpy as us skeptics think (ex. increasing standby waits, messing up current FP touring, frustration with technical glitches) it might actually encourage those who are barely holding on to make the leap.

I agree with Squidgyness' comment "Disney is usually a lot better with balancing their true motives with ones that are aimed to benefit the guest. I think they are going to get a lot more out of this than the guest than usual." At this point a big status update might help, and maybe they've got a big rabbit to pull out of their hat yet, but as it stands they've got their return customer base nervous and confused. Something needs to happen to reassure everyone (and that includes something spectacular new build-wise, not just magic rubber bands).

 

[LisaTN]

Funny, when news of FP+ first came out, I was stressing about it. Then I realized how pointless it was to stress out over something we know nothing about nor when it will be released.

We as Dis-ers and Line-ers will be aware of FP+ before most people, so we should have ample time to figure it out. I can't imagine Disney will roll it out without giving guests time to secure what they need.

We don't know with 100% certainly that we won't be able to use regular FP.

Up until now, since DD has been to small to ride the "big" rides, we haven't needed more than 3-4 FPs. But I'm sure as she gets older and wants the bigger rides, it will seem like not enough.

But seriously, Ive been a much less stressed person since I've just stopped worrying about FP. We go to Disney to get away from everyday stress... don't let it add to your stress

 

[Robo]

IT people, In this tech utopia would the CM on the iPad be connected to ompletely separate network that will be unclogged?

In my school we run parallel wifi networks one for teachers and one for students.

What I can see happening (and it's been mentioned by others) is that the in-park "Guest WiFi" would be inhibited from connecting with the internet, at large.

Done this way to only allow guests to connect with one or more of the Disney in-park Apps.

By cutting off the video streaming and the myriad other internet bandwidth hogs guests might use, the actual in-park related apps would run much faster.
(And, overall, guests would have far less reason to constantly have their attention diverted to their mobile devices.)
That, alone, could make positive difference in the FP+ info stream.

It's puzzled me from the get-go why Disney added wide-open internet WiFi in the parks.
What advantage has that to Disney?

 

[doconeill]

IT people, In this tech utopia would the CM on the iPad be connected to ćompletely separate network that will be unclogged?

In my school we run parallel wifi networks one for teachers and one for students.

They still essentially operate at the same frequencies, for the most part. There are separate channels. But as most IT people who have set up Wi-Fi networks know, there are really only three channels that don't overlap with each other. And it would be very difficult to build a wide-area wi-fi network on only one channel.

Now, most devices only work at one particular frequency set - 2.4GHz. There has been a standard that worked at 5GHz (802.11a, vs. 802.11b and g, a.k.a. "Wireless-G" which are the most common) for quite a while, but wasn't used much outside data-heavy business applications. The newest standard, 802.11n ("Wireless-N"), actually can use both but doesn't need to. I can't tell if an iPad supports 5GHz. My phone supposedly does. But that would likely be lesser used by guest equipment, which could be limited to 2.4GHz.

You know what else works at 2.4Ghz? Microwave ovens. Cordless phones. That's why home networks tend not to work well at times.

Oh...one more thing that works at 2.4Ghz...MagicBands. That's a lot of chatter to add to the network.

 

[Rileygirl]

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[magicbob]

I just see all that magic happening, with the personalised stuff (that I personally wouldn't have cared about even as a first time guest, but I digress) and that small novelty and goodwill vanishing if it affects standby or other aspects of service.

THIS!

You're little story is may be a worst case scenario, but I think it will be representative of many of those "80%" visitors. They will be excited about having their names mentioned or some other "magical" personalization (which BTW could still occur via RFID technology WITHOUT screwing up the FP system). But they will soon realize that they are only in possession of one "decent" FP+, and the others are essentially worthless, and because everyone else has booked FP+ for all the other attractions, they are now stuck in more standby lines with longer waits.

They will figure out that they have been sold a bill of goods. Probably THE biggest complaint of all WDW visitors (and one of the main reasons many never go back) is long lines. Everything we've seen and heard about this change indicates that it will make everyone's experience WORSE, at least in terms of waiting in line. I think the 80% will be no happier with the wait times than they are now (and we all know someone who says they'll NEVER go back because the lines were so long), and the 20% who know who it USED to be will extremely dissatisfied with the result.

I agree with most of what many have said about the intent being data mining, etc. I just don't agree with the assessment that it will actually make anyone have a better experience.

Come on, Disney... don't pour a Dole Whip on my head and tell me it's raining!

 

[doconeill]

What I can see happening (and it's been mentioned by others) is that the in-park "Guest WiFi" would be inhibited from connecting with the internet, at large.

Done this way to only allow guests to connect with one or more of the Disney in-park Apps.

By cutting off the video streaming and the myriad other internet bandwidth hogs guests might use, the actual in-park related apps would run much faster.
(And, overall, guests would have far less reason to constantly have their attention diverted to their mobile devices.)
That, alone, could make positive difference in the FP+ info stream.

It's puzzled me from the get-go why Disney added wide-open internet WiFi in the parks.
What advantage has that to Disney?

They could cut off external access, but then they can't advertise open Wi-Fi. They can rate limit - but that does little to actually help the congestion with the access points.

They needed to go with a standard for guests to use to be able to use MDE without forcing guests to use mobile data.

They want to push the burden of providing the technology to access off to the guests so they don't have to provide as much, but under the guise of "convenience".

 

[verlee]

Great story Reilygirl! I can totally see what you are getting at... Informational and entertaining!!

 

[Squidgyness]

What I can see happening (and it's been mentioned by others) is that the in-park "Guest WiFi" would be inhibited from connecting with the internet, at large.

Done this way to only allow guests to connect with one or more of the Disney in-park Apps.

By cutting off the video streaming and the myriad other internet bandwidth hogs guests might use, the actual in-park related apps would run much faster.
(And, overall, guests would have far less reason to constantly have their attention diverted to their mobile devices.)
That, alone, could make positive difference in the FP+ info stream.

It's puzzled me from the get-go why Disney added wide-open internet WiFi in the parks.
What advantage has that to Disney?

I think they added it for the same reason that most other businesses do: They could. It's a cheap(ish) way to flog a tech service to the people, as long as it's done right. (Limited bandwidth per person, purchase needed to use it, etc etc.)

I just hope they know what stress the system is going to be put under, especially with the seemingly low amount of Kiosks they are putting in.

Unless... they don't expect a majority of guests to use it? You'd think if they had over 60% of guests planned to be using the wifi to book and change things in park, or even just check times, they'd have beefed up both the wifi and the number of Kiosks.

---------------

And maia, that is a great post. Unfortunately Riley your scenario is based on the assumption that I would want to plan my rides. I don't and most likely never will. The only way they would get me to plan my rides and do something I don't want to do, would be to give me so many perks that it affects others experience when not planning (not to mention me since I'm not planning every moment, there will be times when I just want to do something spontaneous), and effectively forcing me to plan by making headliners etc unrealistic without a preplanned itinerary, given by disney or otherwise.

If this system works well for the planners and doesnt affect people like me who dont want to plan too much, like current fastpass does (!), well then fantastic, I'll be on the plane next June to Florida. If standby stays roughly the same times as it is now, I'll still go back to WDW. But I won't plan, and if they try to make me or entice me in the wrong way, I'm not going back. I believe others will do the same. I go to WDW for the attractions and theming. One cannot survive without the other. I do not go for a talking bird that knows my name. Keep the fundamentals (Cutting edge rides + Theming + Access for all) superior and you will attract more guests.

I asked my mother if I stumped up the extra money for tickets in the UK in advance, and we could get fastpasses for any ride, any time 60 days out if she would plan, and she said heck no. I really don't think she is alone, or part of a tiny minority. Disney seem to think all the people who don't plan do so because they don't know how. Some people just don't want to, and a couple of fastpasses aren't going to convince them, they can still get the personalisation things without booking a single fastpass+.

That is why this policy could be dangerously double edged or under utilised. And it won't help Disney or the guests. People think if others don't go back or don't use it, more room for them. Well, Disney has invested 1BN in this and if it goes pear shaped or doesn't get people staying longer and spending more, they'll need to recoup it somehow. See them reduce EMH, slash maintenance even more and raise prices, and we'll see how these "more room for me!" people react. (Not trying to be snarky, but it's in everyones interests to see Disney get this right. I don't think they are. That's all folks!)

This is a very pessimistic scenario, true, but something is going to go wrong, I can guarantee it, i'm just hoping it's something small. If someone can name me a system as complicated as this one that has been launched on such a short scale without a hitch, I'll be mightily impressed.

Actually, aren't Disney proud that no one has ever done something like this before? Well Disney, there might just be a reason for that, and don't you think it's reason enough to take it slow and evaluate things a little better?

Maybe they have decided to slow things down... but that means we won't see how things play out for months now, as they seem determined not to give too much information out. Uncertainty is never good for a business. If they had decided to build a new land or attraction they could be flooding advertisements of "Come to Disney in 2015 and see the new Pixar Land (for example)!!!" Well and truly back in the game, and plenty of time to get Disney back to the front of peoples minds as being on the cutting edge of rides and theming, where they are, or perhaps were, almost unchallenged.

As it is, right now they've got nothing out there to counterattack universal and harry potter. We know about FP+, but most people don't since they aren't even advertising it prominently out in the public eye, and I don't mean sending it to people who have already booked.

I reiterate as others have, I think this isn't for the guests, it's for the execs who then tried to mould it for the guests. Not a good way to plan for the future imo.

*Slouches off in a huff*

 

[Robo]

They could cut off external access, but then they can't advertise open Wi-Fi.

Why do they NEED to advertise "open Wi-Fi?"

 

[bcrook]

Funny, when news of FP+ first came out, I was stressing about it. Then I realized how pointless it was to stress out over something we know nothing about nor when it will be released.

We as Dis-ers and Line-ers will be aware of FP+ before most people, so we should have ample time to figure it out. I can't imagine Disney will roll it out without giving guests time to secure what they need.

We don't know with 100% certainly that we won't be able to use regular FP.

Up until now, since DD has been to small to ride the "big" rides, we haven't needed more than 3-4 FPs. But I'm sure as she gets older and wants the bigger rides, it will seem like not enough.

But seriously, Ive been a much less stressed person since I've just stopped worrying about FP. We go to Disney to get away from everyday stress... don't let it add to your stress

If you look at the posts from most people, it is not about stress - but puzzlement. It is like a Soduku or trying to put together a 5,000 piece jigsaw puzzle. Most of the comments are about figuring it out simply for the sake of understanding and figuring it out. Trying to figure out the real game before the PR and hype machine cranks up.

It may be like watching a 100 car pile up too. It could be a colossal disaster, and we just can't pull ourselves away from it. But Rileygirl is trying to provide another scenario.

 

[magicbob]

We don't know with 100% certainly that we won't be able to use regular FP.

Not to argue semantics, but I think it is 100% certain that FP will go away once FP+ is fully implemented. The big question on everyone's mind is whether there will be "day of" FP+s available. This would be pretty much synonymous to current FP, with the exception that it may still be more challenging to get as many due to a majority of the inventory being pre-booked (think walk-up vs. ADR at TS restaurants).

The sad thing is that they could still use the RFID magic band to do all of the great things mentioned (room key, ticket media, charge card, adding personalization to attractions, etc.) AND it could simply replace the ticket media as the object swiped to receive a FP. The wrench in the works is the pre-booking aspect. If they tossed this idea and just left FP alone (except that you touch your magic band to the kiosk to get one), this could be a big success.

I think Disney is convinced that they can convince the masses that this "pre-book your rides" feature is going to keep them from having to stand in lines. The reality is that it will keep them out of a few lines, but they will quickly figure out that they will still have to stand in many more lines.

I just don't see any way possible that the proposed new system can do a better job of allowing people to stand in fewer lines for less time than the current FP system does. MAYBE if "day of" FP+ are also available, the difference won't be too significant. But if it turns out to be one decent FP+ and two worthless ones and you have to wait in standby for EVERY other attraction, that is a huge step in the wrong direction for ALL guests.

Under the current system, you have the ability to FP a lot more than that. Some have indicated that WDW is "fixing" the "inequity" of "planners" getting all the FPs and "non-planners" being stuck in standby. Assuming for the moment that this is even a factor (i.e., trying to ensure everyone has a positive experience), the problem with this FP redistribution scheme is that, to make it "fair" they are taking away many FP opportunities from the people who arrive early, keep track of their FP window, etc. and in order to spread them out to "everybody" they have to ration everybody to one decent FP. I'll resist the urge to draw any political analogies... suffice it to say that the result will be that some of us are much worse off and the "beneficiaries" get so little they are not truly any better off.