FP+ Details Are Out!

The only constant in life is change. It's as inevitable as death and taxes.

Things are going to change and some will like it, some won't. But regardless of that, in time, someone, or a group of someones, will develop strategies and plans to maximize the new system. New books and websites will be created and a new method will unfold. Some have alluded to it already here.

A few people will be turned off and won't come back. Most will return though. I don't think this will be a JCPenney-esq strategy failure that brings the company and share price to it's knees or a PR nightmare like New Coke. I think it will be an adjustment for a small few and an enjoyable experience for many.

While there are concerns about anything unknown that deals with change, I am choosing to look on the positive side of things and be optimistic that this will be A Good Thing (tm). :thumbsup2
 
I'm still confused. We on the DIS are such an infinitesimally small piece of Disney's customer base that they should not be concerned with what we think of FP+.

Yet we were apparently a big enough piece of the puzzle to completely ruin the traditional fastpass system so that rides now need to be rationed.

Just so confused......

Exactly.
 
Once again we have a company managed by those who do not use their products. So they have no idea of how the hard core fans look at their product and hard core customers are Disney's best sales and marketing force.

Sure I buy shirts and pins, But I also shop at the "Art of Disney" as I assume do many other hardcore disney fans, A cel signed by a Animator is fully depreciated so marginal cost is 0 yet people like me will pay 3-5 figures for one.

Disney is assuming that their fanbase will just get in line and lump it, Bad idea Disney

I'm not sure if the FP nonusers spend lots of money or not. But that isn't really the issue. It is if Disney can get them to spend MORE. And all the while that MORE being more than what they will lose from me and those like me.

Who buys all the insane profit margin pins and vinylmations? Joe sixpack or Joe DISer? Disney's food is overpriced, but I'd have to guess that certain merch is truly where they make the cash. They want you in the park to buy merch, and to a lesser degree food. That's why FP was invented. However, apparently over the years, fewer folks are spending that extra time on merch and food, and are instead spending it on more FPs.

Carsland wasn't built to sell rooms, or even tickets. It was built to sell cars and shirts with cars on them. The more tickets sold, the lower the satisfaction of the average visitor if the number of rides stays the same. Unless you are filling up a park no one is visiting, like DCA.

WDW doesn't need to sell more tickets, the lines are already full, and they seem to refuse to build E tickets. Again, the last MK E ticket was Splash, for cryin' out loud. They DO need/want to sell more pins that cost them a quarter and sell for $8. And yeah, they like to sell food that costs $3 for $8 too, and a souvinier bucket of popcorn for $10 that cost them less than a dollar, with the popcorn. But NORMAL meals aren't the huge money makers. Joe sixpack is going to buy burgers and fries for the kids, but will they buy the high margin comfort foods? Not if they are on a really strict budget.

WDW is so popular because it IS that yearly magical vacation for many people, and those folks buy pins every year, and a shirt for the family every year, etc. FP+ doesn't help those folks at all.

Maybe all us naysayers on DIS are completely wrong, and the lifers don't really spend a lot of cash there, but I bet we do. Many industries try very hard to build a repeat fanbase, such a cruise lines, and DVC is exactly that. Disney, with FP+ seems to be wanting to run off their repeat fanbase because they were using the FP system too wisely.

I'm definitely not the only person who will absolutely stop spending $300 a day for their family to go to WDW if we're only getting 3 FP+s, and the rest is baking in the standby line. And I've spent a fair amount there. And will be spending quite a bit at DL in a month. Note that I'm going to DL, not WDW. When the decision was made, I assumed FP+ could be in place, and that drove us off.

The math simply isn't there, unless the current clueless non FP users simply become clueless FP+ users. But most of us believe one of the huge points is to reduce the clueless number as much as possible.

Jason
 
I know, just bein' silly. This thread gets super serious :) Except you and me. We're awesome.
:cool1:

:rotfl:

No, it's not possible to know with certainty how something will go when released to the masses. But it's possible to get a pretty good idea.

Agreed! That's what the whole data collection, modeling, testing, etc. process is for... :thumbsup2


The only constant in life is change. It's as inevitable as death and taxes.

Things are going to change and some will like it, some won't. But regardless of that, in time, someone, or a group of someones, will develop strategies and plans to maximize the new system. New books and websites will be created and a new method will unfold. Some have alluded to it already here.

A few people will be turned off and won't come back. Most will return though. I don't think this will be a JCPenney-esq strategy failure that brings the company and share price to it's knees or a PR nightmare like New Coke. I think it will be an adjustment for a small few and an enjoyable experience for many.

While there are concerns about anything unknown that deals with change, I am choosing to look on the positive side of things and be optimistic that this will be A Good Thing (tm). :thumbsup2
:) :thumbsup2
 

The only constant in life is change. It's as inevitable as death and taxes.

Yes, but we also have the ability to affect change. Disney is apparently taking concerns and seriously listening to them. So if we have concerns, why should we not voice them to the company? Maybe it'll have an impact, maybe it won't...but when a company is asking for feedback, I take that to mean they're taking their customer's opinions into account and that whatever changes are coming are fluid and open to change based on that feedback.
 
I can't figure out why they don't get the benefit of the doubt on this.

Disney's IT record is....spotty, at best. This entire RFID system is based on technology. If Disney had a better IT track record, perhaps I'd be inclined to exhibit more faith. On our trip in March, we were stuck outside Epcot for 30 mins because all of the turnstiles were down. They were manually (with stamps/sharpies) marking our tickets with entries. What manual option are they going to use when (and I do mean when, b/c all computer systems crash at some point) the FP+ system goes down?

What I can't understand is people making up their minds in advance when they haven't even experienced it yet.
I haven't made up my mind about everything. I have concerns based on what Disney has released. Disney wants feedback, so I will voice those concerns. My opinion is open to change based on further information released by Disney. Until Disney releases more info, my concerns will remain. I truly don't understand why that's unreasonable. :confused3
 
I'm not sure if the FP nonusers spend lots of money or not. But that isn't really the issue. It is if Disney can get them to spend MORE. And all the while that MORE being more than what they will lose from me and those like me. That will be the $1b question...one element that hasn't really entered the discussion regarding FP, FP+ and revenue is that they also have data on who is spending and how much. When merchandise is paid for by room charge or credit card, they have a record of who spent how much and on what. So i'd venture to guess Disney has a good idea where the bulk of their profit comes from with regards to newbies vs. lifers. my guess is its more the newbie crowd as they may be more likely to make emotional and impulsive purchases. those of us who have gone numerous times may (not all) but a good percentage may be inclined to not spend on the more impulsive type items. even my DS12 & DS7 don't really bug us for trinkets anymore


Who buys all the insane profit margin pins and vinylmations? Joe sixpack or Joe DISer? Disney's food is overpriced, but I'd have to guess that certain merch is truly where they make the cash. They want you in the park to buy merch, and to a lesser degree food. That's why FP was invented. However, apparently over the years, fewer folks are spending that extra time on merch and food, and are instead spending it on more FPs.

Carsland wasn't built to sell rooms, or even tickets. It was built to sell cars and shirts with cars on them. The more tickets sold, the lower the satisfaction of the average visitor if the number of rides stays the same. Unless you are filling up a park no one is visiting, like DCA.

WDW doesn't need to sell more tickets, the lines are already full, and they seem to refuse to build E tickets. Again, the last MK E ticket was Splash, for cryin' out loud. They DO need/want to sell more pins that cost them a quarter and sell for $8. And yeah, they like to sell food that costs $3 for $8 too, and a souvinier bucket of popcorn for $10 that cost them less than a dollar, with the popcorn. But NORMAL meals aren't the huge money makers. Joe sixpack is going to buy burgers and fries for the kids, but will they buy the high margin comfort foods? Not if they are on a really strict budget.

WDW is so popular because it IS that yearly magical vacation for many people, and those folks buy pins every year, and a shirt for the family every year, etc. FP+ doesn't help those folks at all.

Maybe all us naysayers on DIS are completely wrong, and the lifers don't really spend a lot of cash there, but I bet we do. I'm sure Disney knows that answer. Many industries try very hard to build a repeat fanbase, such a cruise lines, and DVC is exactly that. Disney, with FP+ seems to be wanting to run off their repeat fanbase because they were using the FP system too wisely. My guess is they never intended the FP system to be used as wisely as it has been but decided to let it run its course. I agree that the ultimate goal of FP/FP+ is revenue. If they can find a way to keep larger masses of people from melting down in line, then yes, it will likely translate into added $$. I'm definitely not the only person who will absolutely stop spending $300 a day for their family to go to WDW wow, $300 day and i think we're doing good if we do it for $500-$1000 day for our family of 4. Then again, we eat at the TS's, buy the $4 mickey bars, $10 popcorns and pay for exhorbinent onsite motels. We like to let the purse strings loose a bit while on vaca. We budget adn pinch all year long for daily life, when on vaca, i want no part of my daily reality. if we're only getting 3 FP+s, and the rest is baking in the standby line. If they were (never will but asking anyway) to eliminate FP altogether and everyone was in the same lines, would that stop you from going altogether? i ask because it seems we are so used to FP and having our way that no one seems appreciative of any FP benefit vs. NO FP benefit. As if we are all entitled to 9 headliners per day with no wait. And I've spent a fair amount there. And will be spending quite a bit at DL in a month. Note that I'm going to DL, not WDW. When the decision was made, I assumed FP+ could be in place, and that drove us off. FP+ or not, we prefer DLCA over WDW on a pure enjoyment level.
The math simply isn't there, unless the current clueless non FP users simply become clueless FP+ users. But most of us believe one of the huge points is to reduce the clueless number as much as possible. Agreed except one thing, we all know how simple FP is yet there is still that 'clueless' contingency. That exists not because of how simple or complex the system is, it exists because of human nature. That I am willing to bet won't be changing too much anytime soon. FP or FP+.
Jason
.
 
/
I'm not sure if the FP nonusers spend lots of money or not. But that isn't really the issue. It is if Disney can get them to spend MORE. And all the while that MORE being more than what they will lose from me and those like me.

Who buys all the insane profit margin pins and vinylmations? Joe sixpack or Joe DISer? Disney's food is overpriced, but I'd have to guess that certain merch is truly where they make the cash. They want you in the park to buy merch, and to a lesser degree food. That's why FP was invented. However, apparently over the years, fewer folks are spending that extra time on merch and food, and are instead spending it on more FPs.

Carsland wasn't built to sell rooms, or even tickets. It was built to sell cars and shirts with cars on them. The more tickets sold, the lower the satisfaction of the average visitor if the number of rides stays the same. Unless you are filling up a park no one is visiting, like DCA.

WDW doesn't need to sell more tickets, the lines are already full, and they seem to refuse to build E tickets. Again, the last MK E ticket was Splash, for cryin' out loud. They DO need/want to sell more pins that cost them a quarter and sell for $8. And yeah, they like to sell food that costs $3 for $8 too, and a souvinier bucket of popcorn for $10 that cost them less than a dollar, with the popcorn. But NORMAL meals aren't the huge money makers. Joe sixpack is going to buy burgers and fries for the kids, but will they buy the high margin comfort foods? Not if they are on a really strict budget.

WDW is so popular because it IS that yearly magical vacation for many people, and those folks buy pins every year, and a shirt for the family every year, etc. FP+ doesn't help those folks at all.

Maybe all us naysayers on DIS are completely wrong, and the lifers don't really spend a lot of cash there, but I bet we do. Many industries try very hard to build a repeat fanbase, such a cruise lines, and DVC is exactly that. Disney, with FP+ seems to be wanting to run off their repeat fanbase because they were using the FP system too wisely.

I'm definitely not the only person who will absolutely stop spending $300 a day for their family to go to WDW if we're only getting 3 FP+s, and the rest is baking in the standby line. And I've spent a fair amount there. And will be spending quite a bit at DL in a month. Note that I'm going to DL, not WDW. When the decision was made, I assumed FP+ could be in place, and that drove us off.

The math simply isn't there, unless the current clueless non FP users simply become clueless FP+ users. But most of us believe one of the huge points is to reduce the clueless number as much as possible.

Jason

I don't know what category my family fits into... DH & I used to visit every 6-9 mos. then annually, then biannually. Now more like every three years. WDW is an expensive destination for a larger family.

We know we aren't their favorite repeat guests as we don't stay on property; but that is because I don't enjoy hotel accommodations. Three-bedroom suites are off our charts. So we've been house renters since before it was common. (Grandma & aunt usually come, too.)

But! We spend a boatload on tickets, food, and souvenirs. [The Chef Mickey's $$$ alone is remarkable!]

So we aren't the once in a lifetime family that drops $10K for their experience. We aren't the annual dining plan, value-hotel visitors either.

What they will do is drive folks like us into the arms if other destinations. (We spent 2008 in Pigeon Forge & loved it!) Will we hurt their bottom line? Probably not; there are others. But we won't be helping it either.
 
This thread may only have 1100+ posts and, yes, for the most part that is from a minority of posters, BUT it has over 57,000 views. Unless the the minority is sitting at their computers 24/7 refreshing the discussion over and over I think it is reaching more people than the number of posts would indicate.

Well, the people with 120+ posts on this thread keep refreshing to quickly see who they have to argue with next.
 
I know, just bein' silly. This thread gets super serious :) Except you and me. We're awesome.
:surfweb::furious::offtopic::scared:
STOP HAVING FUN! RIGHT NOW! This is a DISNEY board and we are trying to have a serious argument!
:rolleyes1 :eek::lmao::rotfl2:



Once again we have a company managed by those who do not use their products.

How do you know this? And exactly how many of management do and don't visit Disney with their families?

BTW: While "how" you say something is important, if they don't know, I'd like them to save the sweet-speak and just tell me they don't know. I like the honest facts!

I'm still convinced this is going to be a positive experience and, for so many reasons, will improve my experience.

One thing I cannot figure out:

People say how terribly important it is that they be able to ride the headliners and won't come if they have to wait in line, and then also say that they hate the idea of planning ahead. This doesn't compute. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The more something in life is very important to you, the more you should be willing to plan to make sure it happens. That is how I look at it. I love being able to make sure I get certain rides ahead of time.

Also, FP is great, but the entire Disney experience does not revolve around just FP. There is so much more!

Everybody have a happy 4th! (With apologies to our British allies.) ;)
 
People say how terribly important it is that they be able to ride the headliners and won't come if they have to wait in line, and then also say that they hate the idea of planning ahead. This doesn't compute. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Apparently a lot of us have been eating a lot of cake under the current FP system.
 

The $300 is just to get in the park, essentially.

I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather go back to pre FP days than what it seems FP+ will be. As has been said over and over, the capacity isn't changing, the number of rides isn't changing, and the number of folks at the park isn't changing. What is changing is that after 3 rides, you will be forced to wait behind others. Pre FP, folks would choose to skip long lines that will gladly take an FP+. So, there are more people in the line, even if it is virtually.

The biggest problem is that they haven't added crap since FP started. In fact, I believe the MK has not added an E-ticket since FP started, yet their attendance has gone up dramatically. The problem is that Disney has not properly invested for more people in the parks, especially MK. FP helped disguise that problem, but it can't anymore.

And they still refuse to add any big rides. I'd guess the submarines probably moved more people than a new little coaster and a second Dumbo. They've reached the tipping point, and have decided to ration rides, instead of add rides. That's really all that's happening. And they are rationing because I'd assume internal numbers showed guest satisfaction for first timers was dropping, and they weren't getting 9 rides. Instead of adding rides, they are making sure us DISers, who everyone says are insignificant, get fewer rides, so the newbies are happy.

We aren't going back to pre-FP days, we're going back to ticket book days, only the gift stores aren't selling E tickets like they used to.

Jason
 
We aren't going back to pre-FP days, we're going back to ticket book days, only the gift stores aren't selling E tickets like they used to.

Oh but that may come, electronically anyway.

Although I wonder how many will be even left to sell for the rides that people actually want...
 
Agree,

We are going back to the ticket book days

I don't get this AT ALL. Truly. Don't understand the rationale one bit.

(on my cell, or I'd include a lot of those little "shrugging shoulders like I don't get it" smilies -- picture them here, please :))
 
People say how terribly important it is that they be able to ride the headliners and won't come if they have to wait in line, and then also say that they hate the idea of planning ahead. This doesn't compute. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The more something in life is very important to you, the more you should be willing to plan to make sure it happens. That is how I look at it. I love being able to make sure I get certain rides ahead of time.

Let's hope your list of "certain rides" is short enough to fit into the new system.

Also, FP is great, but the entire Disney experience does not revolve around just FP. There is so much more!

For us, the ride experiences definitely revolve around rope drop and FPs. No line over 20 minutes... :)
 
The $300 is just to get in the park, essentially.

I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather go back to pre FP days than what it seems FP+ will be. As has been said over and over, the capacity isn't changing, the number of rides isn't changing, and the number of folks at the park isn't changing. What is changing is that after 3 rides, you will be forced to wait behind others. Pre FP, folks would choose to skip long lines that will gladly take an FP+. So, there are more people in the line, even if it is virtually.

The biggest problem is that they haven't added crap since FP started. In fact, I believe the MK has not added an E-ticket since FP started, yet their attendance has gone up dramatically. The problem is that Disney has not properly invested for more people in the parks, especially MK. FP helped disguise that problem, but it can't anymore.

And they still refuse to add any big rides. I'd guess the submarines probably moved more people than a new little coaster and a second Dumbo. They've reached the tipping point, and have decided to ration rides, instead of add rides. That's really all that's happening. And they are rationing because I'd assume internal numbers showed guest satisfaction for first timers was dropping, and they weren't getting 9 rides. Instead of adding rides, they are making sure us DISers, who everyone says are insignificant, get fewer rides, so the newbies are happy.

We aren't going back to pre-FP days, we're going back to ticket book days, only the gift stores aren't selling E tickets like they used to.

Jason

This is what baffle me. Disney knows the attendance numbers are way up through the years; they add resort and DVC rooms; they know guests are highly satisfied by significant new attractions... yet they refuse to add capacity.

They see people lining up at Universal to pay $15 for a wooden stick made in China, and they want that so dang bad at MK they can almost taste it. The answer they have come up with is to limit availability to attractions and potentially reduce guest satisfaction scores. :confused: It is almost as if the plan is to make guests ride a few rides, see long lines at the others, and then throw their hands up and head to the gift shops when exasperated.

All this so they can sell some more cheap crap. Admittedly I am not the souvenir-buying type, but I remember (not all that long ago) when Disney merch used to be high quality and distinctive.

Having said this, I hope they have their mess together with this FP+ boondoggle and that it is not the nightmare that it promises to be. I actually like change and appreciate technology when it is well-conceived and artfully applied.
 
The $300 is just to get in the park, essentially. whew, i thought is was missing out on some kind of killer deal.

I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather go back to pre FP days than what it seems FP+ will be. If we are allowed same day FP+ in addition to the 3 prebooked, would that change your outlook? or as it has been suggested, maybe 3 FP+ at a time is the max but if we use one, we can add one back in to essentialy have a revolving 3 FP+? not sure this is how it will be but could be interesting. As has been said over and over, the capacity isn't changing, the number of rides isn't changing, and the number of folks at the park isn't changing. What is changing is that after 3 rides, you will be forced to wait behind others. Pre FP, folks would choose to skip long lines that will gladly take an FP+. So, there are more people in the line, even if it is virtually.

The biggest problem is that they haven't added crap since FP started. In fact, I believe the MK has not added an E-ticket since FP started, yet their attendance has gone up dramatically. The problem is that Disney has not properly invested for more people in the parks, especially MK. FP helped disguise that problem, but it can't anymore.

And they still refuse to add any big rides. 7 Dwarves seems like it will be a headliner. I don't know if Ariel is considered a headliner or not but it probably moves a good number of people per hour through. I'd guess the submarines probably moved more people than a new little coaster and a second Dumbo. If the submarines in WDW were the same as DLCA with regards to capacity, then i don't think so. 20,000 leauges at DLCA backs up quickly with long waits. They've reached the tipping point, and have decided to ration rides, instead of add rides. That's really all that's happening. And they are rationing because I'd assume internal numbers showed guest satisfaction for first timers was dropping, and they weren't getting 9 rides. Instead of adding rides, they are making sure us DISers, who everyone says are insignificant, get fewer rides, so the newbies are happy.

We aren't going back to pre-FP days, we're going back to ticket book days, only the gift stores aren't selling E tickets like they used to.

Jason

They do need to add more headliners for sure. Tomorroland is a hot mess. Space Mt. is the only attraction that fits. While i don't think stitch is as bad as many make it out to be, it doesn't fit with the whole world of tomorrow premise. Laugh Factory needs to be in DHS. Buzz Lightyear works.

Adventure Land needs an added headliner, Indy at DL is a great example of what adventureland should have in it. Jungle cruise is cute but needs a major refresh. Frontierland is fine, FL is being expanded with what appears to be a great headliner. Tomorrowland IMHO is what needs to have 2 new major headliners put in place of stitch, captain EO, Laugh Factory. And i think tomorroland speedway should be revamped to be "futuristic" with alternative technology to power the cars...electric? hydrogen? electromagetic conductor?...something besides a go kart.
 
And i think tomorroland speedway should be revamped to be "futuristic" with alternative technology to power the cars...electric? .

I know Disney does pretty well and all, but enough to pay the bill for that many electric cars?!?! ;)
 
I'm not talking about the average Disney manager, I'm talking C level executives. Just look how uncomfortable Iger was at Downtown Disney during the Disney Springs announcement. He wanted to be anywhere but among the great unwashed and you could tell.

Then look at Walt and Michael Eisner at the parks, Completely different body language and one key reason they were successful is they were THERE they saw what worked and what did not. The last E-tickets were done under early Eisner.

Late Eisner after he stopped listening to Roy, not so good...

But at least Eisner realized that you need fresh product on a regular basis to keep customers coming back, Disney's not a Museum and look how much it changed over the years.

Now that 'Iger the Accountant' is in charge look how Disney has stagnated,

Avatarland - dont see it beautiful visuals but nasty underlying message.

Soarin, Not even a FL movie, Come on you have the Glades, Kennedy Space Center, Key West, Disney - who would not want to experience Tinkerbell's Flight path at wishes. Oceans on both sides

The pathetic state of Innoventions,

How about a Starwars land - Naboo has possibilities, forests and the gungan undersea city (YES JarJar is the most annoying creature in known universe)

Now Disney blows a billion on IT - that would have paid for a 5'th gate easily so they can ration what they have while universal cranks out a new e-ticket every 18 months.

I think Disney is rapidly approaching the New Coke moment, ie Disney knows what customer wants better than Customer NOT!

:surfweb::furious::offtopic::scared:
STOP HAVING FUN! RIGHT NOW! This is a DISNEY board and we are trying to have a serious argument!
:rolleyes1 :eek::lmao::rotfl2:





How do you know this? And exactly how many of management do and don't visit Disney with their families?

BTW: While "how" you say something is important, if they don't know, I'd like them to save the sweet-speak and just tell me they don't know. I like the honest facts!

I'm still convinced this is going to be a positive experience and, for so many reasons, will improve my experience.

One thing I cannot figure out:

People say how terribly important it is that they be able to ride the headliners and won't come if they have to wait in line, and then also say that they hate the idea of planning ahead. This doesn't compute. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The more something in life is very important to you, the more you should be willing to plan to make sure it happens. That is how I look at it. I love being able to make sure I get certain rides ahead of time.

Also, FP is great, but the entire Disney experience does not revolve around just FP. There is so much more!

Everybody have a happy 4th! (With apologies to our British allies.) ;)
 













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