FP+ Details Are Out!

[rastuso]

"The problem with Fastpass Plus, is that eventually you run out of other people's fastpasses."

A perfect post mom2rtk!

I've been saying ever since FP+ was announced that it's line socialism. Disney is banking that their well-off visitors, paying ridiculous room rates, and eating lots of $4 Mickey bars and $6 boxes of popcorn, will keep coming regardless. And that really is the big gamble.

I go back to Tokyo Disney. I've only been once, but it was such a shock at how different it was. Obviously, they were so orderly, but they were also EXTREMELY FP savvy. I only got 3 FPs both days, and I'd assume that's a pretty typcial number for guests there on the average day. However, they only had FP on a reasonable number of rides.

WDW is trying the same thing, yet putting FP+ on everything, plus, they are giving it to late arrivers that can prebook, and mosey into the park in the afternoon for their 3 PM FPs. At TDL, you still had to put in the effort to get the passes, which I think is a good thing. IF you showed up at noon, you were going to be lucky to get ONE FP.

I'm sure the Japanese DMVs are just like the US ones. You know what I'm talking about. You go to the DMV and think, these folks are scary. BUT, that is the slice of society. EVERYONE must go to the DMV. Now, a lot of those folks aren't hitting WDW, but many do, for a once in a lifetime visit for the kids. And I'd guess a lot them find FP incredibly confusing. Disney is trying to help those folks, because they're pretty sure most of their resort guests know how to use FP well. And those people aren't nearly as likely to buy overpriced food if they aren't happy, and are in long lines all day.

However, that's what's so odd. They seem to be making sure the resort guests get ALL the good FP+s. Which is why I do believe they will roll out groups of FP+s regularly on the days leading to each actual day, including holding back some good ones for day of. Not for people with 3 prebooked passes, but for those just showing up. I could even see them holding some until noon every day, for those that come to the park, wonder around aimlessly, then think they should ask someone what these Fastpasses are, and the CM can explain, and give them some, maybe even a good one.

I'm sure Disney will be able to not only release some to the masses, for day of changing (probably very few), but they could also hold some separate that only can be doled out at the kiosks. High level CMs have always had a stack of timeless FPs to dole out, but they could really increase that number at the kiosks.

I think the HUGE mistake that they are making is the assumption that people like me will continue going, even if my FP allotment is cut in half or more.

If Universal didn't exist, and especially if Harry Potter and all the E tickets Universal is announcing didn't exist, they could maybe get away with this. But I think this is the absolute worst time possible for Disney to be rolling out this ridiculous system. And my guess is they started creating this project before HP was announced, or at least before Universal started getting huge attendance increases.

So, the billion dollar question is: Will the increase in satisfaction (ergo money spent) to the person not with it enough to figure out the current FP, who now now be handed FP+s outweigh the losses of the big spenders and Disney lifers that cut their Disney days in half or more in the future because they aren't as happy.

I personally think it's obvious that the loss will be greater than the gain, but apparently Disney's millionaire head accountants and VPs think otherwise.

And I'm absolutely positive had they built two massive $125 million E ticket rides at each park, it would have been a better investment.

Jason

 

[lugnut33]

The benefit to Disney is this. They saw how the headliners are in huge demand but the B attractions are underutilized. If they can increase utilization of those B attractions and free up capacity on the headliners, they can still increase attendance without needing to build more headliners. I honestly think that's what this is about.

Yes, finally somebody hit it on the head. This has been the plan all along, getting the lesser rides more utilization so they can increase park capacity (at the busy times of course). Disney has said this before openly in an article a few years back about the underground ops center that watches crowd flow.

Also, as I've said, every decision Disney makes involves increasing revenues and that's what FP+ is ultimately designed to. Maybe it seems benevolent in the first year or two, but Disney will get this cranked up as a revenue generating machine by using FP+ as a way to get people to upgrade their accommodations and tickets. Eventually (IMO) you will see FP+ cost more for weekends and holidays, but if you want to play the game you need to pay up.

 

[surferdave]

"The problem with Fastpass Plus, is that eventually you run out of other people's fastpasses."

I wanna play!

Fastpass+ is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

 

[hookedonears]

Just because there're limitations during the testing and initial rollout phases of the FP system, that doesn't mean the same limitations will exist when the system if finally up and going. I'm sure they put limitations in when they are testing a particular facet of the system. Now these limitations may or may not go away, who knows? We won’t know until the system is fully implemented.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

OK, I'm sorry but I have to say that if what they have put out there so far is their best, then I really am worried.

I'm not convinced they have their best returning those calls though. When I took time to complain last year about them taking Belle out of MVMCP, I got one of those phone calls. She told me a variety of things I might look for in Belle's place. The first was some sort of pre-parade act. Nope. Maybe she had MVMCP confused with MNSSHP? Don't know. But there wasn't anything. She told me they were "adding" the Tremaine family photo op for something new. Nope. That had been added 2 years prior. She told me to watch back in New Fantasyland, maybe the Beast would make appearances. Nope. She told me to watch in Epcot for Belle and the Beast to be out in their holiday attire. Nope.

I do understand that you can't have your imagineers returning customer complaint phone calls. But I don't expect to be patronized with wrong information either. But at least the woman who called me did have a very upbeat tone. She didn't say she didn't know the answers. She might have completely made up some answers, but she delivered them with great confidence.

LOVE THIS!

That MVMCP call sounds like a disaster! I would think they'd give this whole MagicBand rollout higher priority and put (at least some of??) the best customer service people they had on it. Agree that reviews are spotty so far...

I'm glad that they are fielding "concerns" the way that they are, at least -- reading emails, calling people back... I've still got those fingers crossed!!

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

I think the HUGE mistake that they are making is the assumption that people like me will continue going, even if my FP allotment is cut in half or more.

If Universal didn't exist, and especially if Harry Potter and all the E tickets Universal is announcing didn't exist, they could maybe get away with this. But I think this is the absolute worst time possible for Disney to be rolling out this ridiculous system. And my guess is they started creating this project before HP was announced, or at least before Universal started getting huge attendance increases.

So, the billion dollar question is: Will the increase in satisfaction (ergo money spent) to the person not with it enough to figure out the current FP, who now now be handed FP+s outweigh the losses of the big spenders and Disney lifers that cut their Disney days in half or more in the future because they aren't as happy.

I personally think it's obvious that the loss will be greater than the gain, but apparently Disney's millionaire head accountants and VPs think otherwise.

And I'm absolutely positive had they built two massive $125 million E ticket rides at each park, it would have been a better investment.

Jason

In considering FP+ and what it could mean for my family's vacation, I can't help but think of what I value about vacations in general. I think WDW vacations may become much less relaxing for us under the FP+ system, and that what is now stimulating may become tedious.
At that point it time it won't be Harry Potter that gets my vacation dollars, it will be some other destination entirely. I can't imagine a time when we will quit Disney entirely (short of the place falling to pieces), but I sure could imagine our interests drifting elsewhere more and more if and when WDW vacations become more laborious and less rewarding.

 

[Disneyof3]

I'm like most people and very confused about this whole FP+. Do you think disney would implement this new system over the most busiest time of the year? I have heard from Sept-Dec that this will be rolled out. How confusing for most disney people let alone new comers. As most people have mentioned we have heard rumors but nothing will be concrete until they finally announce it. We are heading down for our 1st xmas and I would like to be some what prepared before I go. If this isn't in by then, I will be most happy because this will be our last trip for sometime now that the kids will be heading to College/University.

 

[d1gitman]

I've been saying ever since FP+ was announced that it's line socialism. i think with live data it's more likely to become a line dictatorship since they will have the ability to manipulate on the fly. Disney is banking that their well-off visitors, paying ridiculous room rates that would be a matter of opinion - perceived value is just that. $100n average for a value motel that includes ME or free parking if i bring my own vehicle does compare to cheaping out at a no-tell motel offsite and paying for parking at the parks and possibly having to rent a car as well. also, for some, myself included - there is value in being immersed in all things Mickey as it brings us pleasure. Offsite hotels/motels/resorts can't offer the Mickey element, and eating lots of $4 Mickey bars and $6 boxes of popcorn, will keep coming regardless. I don't know if any amusement or theme park that doesn't have have high food prices, that kind of goes with the territory And that really is the big gamble. I just don't see the sky is falling with regards to resorts and food


I think the HUGE mistake that they are making is the assumption that people like me will continue going, even if my FP allotment is cut in half or more. It would be interesting to see what the stats are on guests and what the percentage of "power users" vs. casual users vs. non users. the casual and on users may very well be the overwhelming percentage of guests in the parks. whether or not those of us who visit frequently are the 'bigger spenders' or the vast source of revenue, who knows. It could be those who frequent actually spend less because they are looking for ways to do the same things on the cheap, particularly since the novelty of a first or second trip has worn off.

So, the billion dollar question is: Will the increase in satisfaction (ergo money spent) to the person not with it enough to figure out the current FP, who now now be handed FP+s outweigh the losses of the big spenders and Disney lifers that cut their Disney days in half or more in the future because they aren't as happy. It seems the assumption is that those not in the know are somehow not spenders? not sure one can make the assumption that a change in FP to FP+ is somehow driving the so called 'big spenders' away. maybe a percentage of 'lifer's' may drop off but i don't think that would kill the bottom line.I personally think it's obvious only if one assumes that the Disney uneducated are cheapskates and that the loyal lifers are the ones who's money counts that the loss will be greater than the gain, but apparently Disney's millionaire head accountants and VPs think otherwise.

And I'm absolutely positive had they built two massive $125 million E ticket rides at each park, it would have been a better investment. This i totally agree with...create more capacity within the park and that would spread the herds out a bit.

Jason

then again, in the years to come, it seems logical to think that there will be some good additions and major expansions...there is just too much time tested material that Disney has to work with to not add and expand.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

then again, in the years to come, it seems logical to think that there will be some good additions and major expansions...there is just too much time tested material that Disney has to work with to not add and expand.

Agreed

Fingers crossed about this, too...

 

[Bob NC]

Let me add the above only applies to those that are aware of FP+, which overall may be a pretty small number.

LOL, yes....1100 posts on the Dis, (With half of them being made by 8 posters), isn't a blip on their radar screen.

I'm guessing the number is between 95% - 100% of people who don't care, with the number being closer to 100%.

With a small number of rabid Dis fans calling and emailing and demanding answers, I'm sure Disney is a little shocked. The reason they don't have all the concrete answers is probably because there ARE NO concrete answers yet. They are testing this system for god's sake. With their great customer service, yes, they are responding to people, the reason they can't answer everyones questions is because there ARE no answers to these questions. This HAS to be very frustrating for them to have to answer questions and defend a program that hasn't been fully planned, is still in testing, and has not gone fully live yet.

 

[d1gitman]

LOL, yes....1100 posts on the Dis, (With half of them being made by 8 posters), isn't a blip on their radar screen.

I'm guessing the number is between 95% - 100% of people who don't care, with the number being closer to 100%.

With a small number of rabid Dis fans calling and emailing and demanding answers, I'm sure Disney is a little shocked. The reason they don't have all the concrete answers is probably because there ARE NO concrete answers yet. They are testing this system for god's sake. With their great customer service, yes, they are responding to people, the reason they can't answer everyones questions is because there ARE no answers to these questions. This HAS to be very frustrating for them to have to answer questions and defend a program that hasn't been fully planned, is still in testing, and has not gone fully live yet. I agree 100%...i think in hindsight, had they just swapped FP deliveyr method to the MagicBand method for a year or two and collected that data, it would have been a cleaner way to implement change. They could just add a feature or two at a time until all elements are implemented. IF we could all still FP in the manner accustomed to and they just added prebookings for parades, fireworks, shows & meet n greets while leaving attraction FP availablilty as is it would be a less disruptive process yet allow them to better understandt he dynamics of guests with regards to live data. then they could have done real tests with select headliners. it would afford them the ability to get the whole MagicBand thing running smoothly, see how the Mickey heads work out, etc...

 

[mom2rtk]

LOL, yes....1100 posts on the Dis, (With half of them being made by 8 posters), isn't a blip on their radar screen.

I'm guessing the number is between 95% - 100% of people who don't care, with the number being closer to 100%.

With a small number of rabid Dis fans calling and emailing and demanding answers, I'm sure Disney is a little shocked. The reason they don't have all the concrete answers is probably because there ARE NO concrete answers yet. They are testing this system for god's sake. With their great customer service, yes, they are responding to people, the reason they can't answer everyones questions is because there ARE no answers to these questions. This HAS to be very frustrating for them to have to answer questions and defend a program that hasn't been fully planned, is still in testing, and has not gone fully live yet.

Then the answer needs to be "I'm sure you are aware this is an entirely new approach to theme park line maintenance. We have designed FP+ to be a dynamic system, capable of being shaped in short notice to fit the conditions in the parks. You're going to have to trust a company with Disney's reputation for customer service to do what is needed to assure the best possible parks experience. But a lot of the specifics are being perfected as we go."

........ instead of "We don't know".

Or maybe that's what they said and the PPs just summarized.......

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

LOL, yes....1100 posts on the Dis, (With half of them being made by 8 posters), isn't a blip on their radar screen.

I'm guessing the number is between 95% - 100% of people who don't care, with the number being closer to 100%.

With a small number of rabid Dis fans calling and emailing and demanding answers, I'm sure Disney is a little shocked. The reason they don't have all the concrete answers is probably because there ARE NO concrete answers yet. They are testing this system for god's sake. With their great customer service, yes, they are responding to people, the reason they can't answer everyones questions is because there ARE no answers to these questions. This HAS to be very frustrating for them to have to answer questions and defend a program that hasn't been fully planned, is still in testing, and has not gone fully live yet.

The words "small, vocal minority" come to mind. I've always said the posters here are a small percentage, etc. That said, those few vocal people can influence many others, and it would make sense for Disney to deal with them as well as they can. And it sounds like they are.

I'd agree that even as these more vocal people fan out and spread their word, that is still a fairly small circle in Disney terms. But not as small as it once was, now that Disney is using social media more... nothing like dampening what is supposed to be a SUPER EXCITING FB or Twitter post/announcement with angry posts and hashtags from people who don't think their concerns have been heard.

Makes sense these days to take even small, vocal minorities seriously as part of a major rollout. Not spend a gazillion dollars and all your resources on it, but give it adequate consideration and attention. IMHO, they are, with these calls as an example (though sounds like they could improve their "polish"). Not enough to make everyone happy, but it does dampen some of the otherwise-ire, I think.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Then the answer needs to be "I'm sure you are aware this is an entirely new approach to theme park line maintenance. We have designed FP+ to be a dynamic system, capable of being shaped in short notice to fit the conditions in the parks. You're going to have to trust a company with Disney's reputation for customer service to do what is needed to assure the best possible parks experience. But a lot of the specifics are being perfected as we go."

........ instead of "We don't know".

Or maybe that's what they said and the PPs just summarized.......

Chief Marketing Officer for Disney -- look into it!!

 

[ford91exploder]

Neither am I, But being in IT you know the guy who designed this, Pasty white works vampire hours lives and breathes scheduler algorithms and thinks if only he can control every variable goodness will ensue...

Hey now! I'm not pasty!

 

[Marie17]

Maybe not "entitled" but I do want to know what changes are coming and what I perceive as good vacation value for my family because I am expected to pay lots of money for a trip either 45 days out OR in FULL upon arrival for room-only.

It only seems "fair" that if the average guest is expected to pre-plan fastpasses down to a particular day why can't Disney be expected to be able to provide details of that new system to those guests that are going to have to plan. In the very least, have an actual release date set besides a general time frame. IF the program is to be rolled out within 180 days from now, maybe they should know more details since if this fastpass+ thing were a restaurant we would be able to book an ADR for it.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm still confused. We on the DIS are such an infinitesimally small piece of Disney's customer base that they should not be concerned with what we think of FP+.

Yet we were apparently a big enough piece of the puzzle to completely ruin the traditional fastpass system so that rides now need to be rationed.

Just so confused......

 

[mom2rtk]

Chief Marketing Officer for Disney -- look into it!!

I'm sure they're all over it.

 

[ford91exploder]

Somewhat of a NDA, Basically it looked like a variation on the QP system, You pick one - system picks other attractions, Say you pick Evening Space Mountain, You would get say a parade spot and CoP.

It was definitely weighted toward load leveling.

Can you speak a little to the ride selection? What did you pick? What were you given? Did you find that your pick influenced the quick picks you received? Are you bound by a Non-Disclosure Agreement and can't answer these anyway? Am I overbearing and compelling you to not want to answer these? Is it not me, it's you?

Thanks

 

[ExBellhop]

Yet we were apparently a big enough piece of the puzzle to completely ruin the traditional fastpass system so that rides now need to be rationed.

Maybe they have adapted the old "if it ain't broke" adage and created, "If it ain't broke, keep tweaking it until you break it or it makes more money."?