FP+ Details Are Out!

[Cafeen]

No, you aren't understanding it, there are 45 unused spots, you can not ADD the spot that was missed from 1-2 into that slot, you can't increase the number to 46 unused spots. Someone can book any of those 45, but the missed slot from 1-2 can not be added into the system for a later time, because you can not increase the capacity at a later time. You can still only have 100 riders per hour.

While ride capacity is fixed. FP/SB ratio isn't necessarily fixed. As such, they can push unused FPs later into the day, and then slightly alter the FP/SB ratio at merge.

So for instance, over the course of the first 5 hours, 50 FPs go unused, these are now offered for the 2nd 5 hours and are picked up at roughly 5 per hour. Person at merge, instead of going 5FP/3SB goes 6FP/3SB for a time. It does lengthen the perceived S/B time in this case due to the changing ratios (this is slightly different than other math, where the FP/SB ratio was fixed.)

However, whether it's advantageous to offer these missed FP slots or not, I'm not sold on. But, then again, since the system will now be tracking FP returns, then it may be able to compensate for this.

And speaking of which, the fact that the FP returns are tracked by the system may take some of the heat off of the CMs for enforcing the window (both early and late). They can just defer to the system not letting them in.

Naw, people won't care about that.

That would only work if there is nobody to fill the missed spot. However, there is a continual stream of fastpass users so everyone just moves up and the open space keeps being pushed to the end.

Everyone gets to ride one person sooner until the time where an extra person is added back in.

This sounds like a vaguely familiar argument

 

[rschaen]

actually it makes perfect sense....if your slot is 1:00-2:00 and you miss it, at 2:01 your slot is back in teh system and the virtual grouping from 2:10-3:10 have an added slot...if 2:10-3:10 is at 100% capacity with no room to add the missed FP+, it can just continue to scan the system for the next virtual grouping with availability. very simple, very effective...at least in my mind

I think the point is that the hypothetical slot from 1-2 is gone whether used or not since the system can't open it based upon knowledge that this person or that won't make it before expiration. However, if, using magic bands, they know that that person is not even in the park, then maybe they vs. assume fpp won't be used, but again, anyone could show@last minute, so can't figure out a scenario to account for no-shows that wouldn't screw someone else up except for over booking which would make fp lines longer. I trust that all of these scenarios have been thought upon by designers so i an interested in how they have worked (or not) this out.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

OK, as long as I get unicorns AND sunshine.

...and butterscotch. I want butterscotch too.

 

[d1gitman]

I think the point is that the hypothetical slot from 1-2 is gone whether used or not since the system can't open it based upon knowledge that this person or that won't make it before expiration. However, if, using magic bands, they know that that person is not even in the park, then maybe they vs. assume fpp won't be used, but again, anyone could show@last minute, so can't figure out a scenario to account for no-shows that wouldn't screw someone else up except for over booking which would make fp lines longer. I trust that all of these scenarios have been thought upon by designers so i an interested in how they have worked (or not) this out.

agreed that the expired slot is gone, can't go back in time. however, that unused slot can immediately be put back into the system upon expiration thus recapturing that slot. currently, the slot is lost. only if they manually add FP's to the system are they put back in. IF they currently do that, then i suspect they also are just tacked on to the end return times, not filling in any availability that may exist throughout the day.

 

[WillAustin]

agreed that the expired slot is gone, can't go back in time. however, that unused slot can immediately be put back into the system upon expiration thus recapturing that slot.

Thanks. I get it now. It is very similar to the previous late FP usage. Maybe we'll see a wealth of evening FP+s open up throughout the day as people miss their slots.

 

[d1gitman]

Thanks. I get it now. It is very similar to the previous late FP usage. Maybe we'll see a wealth of evening FP+s open up throughout the day as people miss their slots.

i hope so. it may not be noticeable per say cause i believe the system will fill in first available slots, not necessarily dump them to the end of the day. i would imagine that one component of the FP+ system is if you are booking a FP+ slot for your party of 5, it fits you in the first available slot that accomodates all 5. i hope it doesn't only let you do individual slots as it may put part of your party at one time and the others at another time.

 

[damo]

No,

Ok, this is actually really simple.

Each ride has a maximum capacity per minute/hour/day. We will pretend that number is 100/hr.

You can divide that number up any way you like it, 25 standby, 75 FP, 50/50, or 100 FP 0 SB. The capacity does NOT change.

Now, IF you want to insist that there are standbys as well, I can do this, although its much easier to prove my point using only FPs.

You can not add a missed time slot from one time to a later time, because you can not change capacity. If the ride is running under capacity, then of course there is space, but you aren't adding a slot back into the system, you are just using unbooked capacity later in the day.

If between 8am and 9am only 70 people ride the ride, you can't add those 30 spots later in the day and have 130 people ride between 3-4.

If I book a FP from 1-2, and I don't show up. You can not add that FP into the system at a later time.

Even if someone from standby takes my spot, there are an unlimited number of standby people, they keep coming, and you don't really impact the levels of standby later by allowing people in earlier.

So again, put it in numbers, if we have a 50/50 split of capacity, and I book an FP from 1-2, and don't show up, sure someone from Standby rides instead. But I can't add that FP spot later in the day, I can reassign a standby slot as FP, and from 3-4 I can split it 51/49. But I can not ADD a spot.

Of course the problem with that scenario is that, as I noted, the supply of standby is not really finite for all intent and purpose.

Its not like there are 600 standby riders a day, so as long as you average 50/hour, you will get them all done. If you let 51 ride one hour, there are still 50 waiting for every other hour.

You can not create more capacity.

You aren't changing the capacity. One person from the second hour will fill the open spot from the first hour. The capacity remains the same. It is just that someone from hour 2 got pushed into hour 1.

Let's say the capacity is 100 riders/hour. If you have 100 people in hour 1 and one person cancels, you now have 99 people in the hour 1 line. So you take the first person from hour 2 and push him into hour 1. (those people will be there in line because of the time slot overlaps). You still have pushed 100 riders through the ride in that hour one. You have effectively moved everyone in hour 2 up one person, creating an extra space in hour 2 that can be filled. Or you can push all those people through and move the space to hour 3. You have not changed any capacity.

As long as there are people available at the time the slot is missed, you can fill it.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

i hope so. it may not be noticeable per say cause i believe the system will fill in first available slots, not necessarily dump them to the end of the day. i would imagine that one component of the FP+ system is if you are booking a FP+ slot for your party of 5, it fits you in the first available slot that accomodates all 5. i hope it doesn't only let you do individual slots as it may put part of your party at one time and the others at another time.

Darn! I missed the Operations Research portion of the day's discussion!

You guys explained it all really well, IMHO, so nothing really to add to that except to say that this gets to part of why I'm optimistic about the system. 1) More efficiency than current FP system in filling slots / smoothing out flow, and 2) SO MUCH flexibility wrt what Disney can adjust as time goes on and real data and feedback come in.

There are so many things that they can dynamically dial up or down, balance btwn FP/standby (in more real-time fashion), potentially throw in "bonus" same-day passes to direct flow among attractions some, adjust number of reserved or same-day FP allowed, etc.

I remain concerned about the IT piece in the short-ish term, but the system overall holds promise in my book.

 

[BlueStarryHat]

I just read the seven or so pages of this thread I missed yesterday, and I feel like I've just read the instructions to a tax form, or read an explanation of physics by Dr. Sheldon Cooper.

 

[d1gitman]

..I remain concerned about the IT piece in the short-ish term, but the system overall holds promise in my book.

thats my biggest fear...and also, how do they handle things whent the system does hiccup or go down during park hours. probably will be handing out a lot of vouchers...possibly RFID vouchers so that the system can still track activity...assuming the "mickey head" sensors don't crash too

 

[Robo]

I just read the seven or so pages of this thread I missed yesterday, and I feel like I've just read the instructions to a tax form, or read an explanation of physics by Dr. Sheldon Cooper.

Yep.

This is some of that high school Algebra that we all said we'd never use in real life.

 

[d1gitman]

Yep.

This is some of that high school Algebra that we all said we'd never use in real life.

i'm waiting for the FP=MC2 system...i believe Mickey and Einstein were related on some level. Also, i heard they discovered the 'Mickey Particle'

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Yep.

This is some of that high school Algebra that we all said we'd never use in real life.

If X = 1 FP+...

I had flashbacks of business school operations research... designing assembly lines and such... bottlenecks, throughput times... good times...

 

[Robo]

i'm waiting for the FP=MC2 system...i believe Mickey and Einstein were related on some level. Also, i heard they discovered the 'Mickey Particle'

Eureka! I have found it!

 

[hookedonears]

Does it specifically say that if you schedule and USE 3 FP's in the morning at one park, and then park hop to another park, that you can't use the regular paper FP's in the afternoon at the second park?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

i'm waiting for the FP=MC2 system...i believe Mickey and Einstein were related on some level. Also, i heard they discovered the 'Mickey Particle'

Eureka! I have found it!

I always suspected...!!

 

[midgetpepper]

.

I'm seriously tired of all the speculation. I say let's just get the show on the road.

Agreed!

 

[Robo]

Does it specifically say that if you schedule and USE 3 FP's in the morning at one park, and then you park hop to another park, that you can't use the regular paper FP's in the afternoon at the second park?

The info states that you must choose the "old" FP -or- the "new" FP+ system.
Once you make the change, you can't access the old system.

(I'd guess if that were the case, your ticket media (whatever you are using) would not activate
the "old" FP vending.)

 

[Cafeen]

Does it specifically say that if you schedule and USE 3 FP's in the morning at one park, and then you park hop to another park, that you can't use the regular paper FP's in the afternoon at the second park?

Not exactly, but one of the goals of FP+ is to replace the old paper FPs. So, if that portion goes through, it will have a similar effect.

Whether FP+ will elimination the FP system as we know it is one of the dark and cloudy unknowns at this time.

And what Robo said.

 

[hookedonears]

OK, I just called Disney (407) 939 5277, the reservation number and talked to a customer service person and was told this:
That we will be given 3 advanced FP reservations per day that can be used at any park, in any amount on the same day. 1 in 1 park and 2 at another park, or how ever you want to use them. He was confident and specific. He said that we can also use the regular paper FP's inconjunction with the FP+ in the same park, on the same day. He was confident and clear about what he was saying.