For what reasons could you be requested to go through the full body scanners?

[jodifla]

Having been through the millimeter wave scanner myself, my FIRSTHAND concerns are these:

-- They take much, much longer than walking through a metal detector. It takes, I read, 15 seconds for them to work, then another 15 seconds to wait for the results, then another 15 seconds or so for them to do the patdown that comes with them (I'm using reported results, since I wasn't timing it when I went through it.) So that's 45 seconds, you say, what's the big deal? The big deal is that you walk through a metal detector in about 3 to 4 seconds. So the process becomes 10 to 15 lines longer. And if each person takes closer than a minute to go through, well than for every 60 or so people in front of you, you are looking at an hour wait time instead of maybe 10 or 15 minutes.

-- They are UNSUITABLE for small children or some children/older with disabilities. Small children are likely to be frightened of these machines, first of all, and unable to stand still for the amount of time it requires for a read of them. Their parents also will be unable to be in the machine with them. In the one I was in in Detroit, the doors whirled around you, so I don't know what would happen if a toddler tried to run out while the scanner was whirling. Do the doors stop if impeded, or would they crush what was between the doors?


I also have problems with these scans and patdowns, but these two are real-life issues these machines impose.

 

[N965VJ]

In addition, the images are not as detailed as those shown using a backscatter x-ray scanner.

Have you seen a specimen image in the same size and resolution that the operator will see when he is alone in the viewing room?

 

[SnackyStacky]

Having been through the millimeter wave scanner myself, my FIRSTHAND concerns are these:

-- They take much, much longer than walking through a metal detector. It takes, I read, 15 seconds for them to work, then another 15 seconds to wait for the results, then another 15 seconds or so for them to do the patdown that comes with them (I'm using reported results, since I wasn't timing it when I went through it.) So that's 45 seconds, you say, what's the big deal? The big deal is that you walk through a metal detector in about 3 to 4 seconds. So the process becomes 10 to 15 lines longer. And if each person takes closer than a minute to go through, well than for every 60 or so people in front of you, you are looking at an hour wait time instead of maybe 10 or 15 minutes.

-- They are UNSUITABLE for small children or some children/older with disabilities. Small children are likely to be frightened of these machines, first of all, and unable to stand still for the amount of time it requires for a read of them. Their parents also will be unable to be in the machine with them. In the one I was in in Detroit, the doors whirled around you, so I don't know what would happen if a toddler tried to run out while the scanner was whirling. Do the doors stop if impeded, or would they crush what was between the doors?


I also have problems with these scans and patdowns, but these two are real-life issues these machines impose.

Wait...

I thought that it was one or the other? You could, if selected, refuse the scan for an "enhanced pat down". Or they may target you for a random "ehanced pat down", skipping the scanner completely.

What am I missing?

 

[N965VJ]

Just a clarification of terms here-

There are three types of patdowns now, the Standard Pat Down, Alarm Resolution Pat Down, and a third undefined pat down for children under 12.

Not opting out of the Nude-O-Scope is no guarantee that you will not receive one of the new pat downs.

The Alarm Resolution Pat Down is done in private by a Lead or Supervisory screener. The Standard is what you may have seen in the media recently, however there have been too many clips and images of old procedures being shown, the first giveaway are screeners wearing the old style uniforms.

Below is a Standard Pat Down being perfomed:

 

[eliza61]

Not trying to get into the debate (and have read about half this thread). I have a question:

Is the body scanner/enhanced pat down happening only in U.S. airports or are they happening in other countries too? I went through the body scanner last May on my way to Vegas (from a Canadian airport). Is the enhanced pat down being enforced internationally?

Generally you don't do both. If you go through the body scanner, unless some thing shows up you won't have a pat down.

I've flown from Tel Aviv (israel), Portugal and London.

Tel Aviv has no pat down but they question you the nanosecond you arrive. Each car is stop prior to entering the airport and search by armed Israel army personel. Then upon entering you are asked questions. We were asked where we stayed while in Israel, the nature of our business and a few other questions. If you have issues with your privacy, this is not the place to visit. LOL. My coworker was asked to show her pictures on her digital camera. She did ask why but was simply told "it is a security check". We asked one time what would happen if we did not want to answer questions, we were told that we were perfectly allowed to drive to the Syrian border and go home that way.

London was also easy. Go through scanner, get on plane. I'm not sure if they feel its security theater but I've never really seen anyone at heathrow complain about it. I've never seen anyone have a pat down at heathrow but I've seen hundreds of people have random bag searches especially on flights to the US.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Is this really true, or just a rumour? Yes, I understand they are safer, but I'm not as sure about 1/2 the scanners being millimeter wave scanners.

Not sure if it's a 50 - 50 mix, but the mmw scanners will be out there in quantity.

Safer? The more that comes out about a human body being exposed to microwave non-ionizing radiation (mmw uses that) the less safe it seems.

You know, those two answers basically say "because I say so." Not a good way to present an argument.

This answer on the other hand is a very good one.
I agree with you. The key is the word "unreasonable". However, whether the new searches are unreasonable depends on who you ask. The majority of travelers seem to think the new searches ARE reasonable. So until the minority can get a court to their view point, the claims of "violation of 4th Amendment" I think are moot.

Well Sam . . . any of the three answers come down to "because I say so." You think something is reasonable, I differ . . . each of us made a value judgement.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Generally you don't do both. If you go through the body scanner, unless some thing shows up you won't have a pat down.

I've flown from Tel Aviv (israel), Portugal and London.

Tel Aviv has no pat down but they question you the nanosecond you arrive. Each car is stop prior to entering the airport and search by armed Israel army personel. Then upon entering you are asked questions. We were asked where we stayed while in Israel, the nature of our business and a few other questions. If you have issues with your privacy, this is not the place to visit. LOL. My coworker was asked to show her pictures on her digital camera. She did ask why but was simply told "it is a security check". We asked one time what would happen if we did not want to answer questions, we were told that we were perfectly allowed to drive to the Syrian border and go home that way.

London was also easy. Go through scanner, get on plane. I'm not sure if they feel its security theater but I've never really seen anyone at heathrow complain about it. I've never seen anyone have a pat down at heathrow but I've seen hundreds of people have random bag searches especially on flights to the US.

So you are OK with "profiling" if it's done the Israeli way?

The UK does not permit "opt outs" from the scanner. Then again we revolted against the way they did things.

And you'll be pleased to know - if you remove your shoes at CDG, they will likely laugh at you and make snide remarks about Americans (in French).

 

[CPT Tripss]

Just a clarification of terms here-

There are three types of patdowns now, the Standard Pat Down, Alarm Resolution Pat Down, and a third undefined pat down for children under 12.

Not opting out of the Nude-O-Scope is no guarantee that you will not receive one of the new pat downs.

The Alarm Resolution Pat Down is done in private by a Lead or Supervisory screener. The Standard is what you may have seen in the media recently, however there have been too many clips and images of old procedures being shown, the first giveaway are screeners wearing the old style uniforms.

Below is a Standard Pat Down being perfomed:

That photo ought to be captioned "Turn you head . . . cough."

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

That photo ought to be captioned "Turn you head . . . cough."

That's what I was thinking.

 

[deedeetoo]

Having been through the millimeter wave scanner myself, my FIRSTHAND concerns are these:

-- They take much, much longer than walking through a metal detector. It takes, I read, 15 seconds for them to work, then another 15 seconds to wait for the results, then another 15 seconds or so for them to do the patdown that comes with them (I'm using reported results, since I wasn't timing it when I went through it.) So that's 45 seconds, you say, what's the big deal? The big deal is that you walk through a metal detector in about 3 to 4 seconds. So the process becomes 10 to 15 lines longer. And if each person takes closer than a minute to go through, well than for every 60 or so people in front of you, you are looking at an hour wait time instead of maybe 10 or 15 minutes.
.

There must be a big difference in how these are administered if that is your experience. Mine has been very different. You go in the scanner, stand on footprints, put your hands up over your head, wait a couple seconds, then you go get your stuff. Maybe 10 seconds total.

Also not every person goes through it. In my experience, they seem to grab about every third person with the other two being sent through the regular metal detector. Done this way, it really doesn't hold up the line much.

 

[goofy4tink]

AFter watching GME this morning, there are something like 350 of the new scanners, with well over 2,000 security lines. Only a very small percentage of fliers are going to be asked to go through the new scanners. Does that make it any better for those going through them?? No, perhaps not. But this whole argument that it is going to slow down security to a fare-thee-well is nonsense. If every, say, 20th person is pulled out of line to go through the new scanners, well that just isn't a huge number. I do know that when I got pulled out of the regular metal detector line, to go through the new scanners at Logan awhile ago, it took me about 10 seconds, start to finish, to get through that scanner.
That's my personal experience.

 

[jodifla]

AFter watching GME this morning, there are something like 350 of the new scanners, with well over 2,000 security lines. Only a very small percentage of fliers are going to be asked to go through the new scanners. Does that make it any better for those going through them?? No, perhaps not. But this whole argument that it is going to slow down security to a fare-thee-well is nonsense. If every, say, 20th person is pulled out of line to go through the new scanners, well that just isn't a huge number. I do know that when I got pulled out of the regular metal detector line, to go through the new scanners at Logan awhile ago, it took me about 10 seconds, start to finish, to get through that scanner.
That's my personal experience.

That's only because all the scanners aren't installed yet. Every story I see says more and more are coming online every day.

Did they not take any time to read your results? Because I had to come out of the scanner, then wait awhile before my results were radioed to the TSA agent right outside the scanner.

Even if the whole package is only 30 seconds, that's still about 10 times as long as it takes to just walk through the metal detector.

 

[disney-super-mom]

Is this really true, or just a rumour? Yes, I understand they are safer, but I'm not as sure about 1/2 the scanners being millimeter wave scanners.

It's just what was reported by MSNBC.com. What their sources are and whether it's "really true".....how are any of us going to know that? I know that whatever the media reports, they have to be able to back it up with their sources.....but that doesn't mean it's true or not true either.

I hope what they report is true, and that's about as good as I can do for anyone here unless I take the time to call every single airport in this country to find out if they have the new scanners and what kind they are.....which I'm not going to take the time to do.

 

[disney-super-mom]

Have you seen a specimen image in the same size and resolution that the operator will see when he is alone in the viewing room?

No.

I'm just passing on what I read about the different scanners on MSNBC.com. Whether it's true or not....well, it comes down to if you believe the media/report and if you believe they have reliable sources.

I can't make anyone believe it one way or another, and I'm not trying to. I'm just passing on what I read, and shared a link showing the different types of scanners and how they work, because the more knowledge a person has about something, the more confident it makes them feel about it one way or another.

 

[heaven2dc]

I just posted a thread but wanted to comment on something similar. My DS23 lost his I.D. card and we went to DMV to replace it but since it is now mailed instead of given right then, he has to go through special screening process. I wonder if he will have to go through this body scanner if they have one at Reagan. It looks like they have one now at Orlando so I told him to be prepared.

 

[disney-super-mom]

I wonder what happens when someone pregnant is asked to go through a scanner. Is that safe for them? Are there signs posted saying to let the TSA agent know if you're pregnant?

My niece is coming with us to WDW in a couple weeks, and she's about five months pregnant. She isn't really showing much other than just a tiny baby bump, but I'm a little worried about the safety of it for her and the baby....if she happens to be asked to go through the scanner.

(There are 8 of us traveling together, so I think the odds of at least one of us being asked to go through a scanner is pretty good.)

 

[maxiesmom]

I wonder what happens when someone pregnant is asked to go through a scanner. Is that safe for them? Are there signs posted saying to let the TSA agent know if you're pregnant?

My niece is coming with us to WDW in a couple weeks, and she's about five months pregnant. She isn't really showing much other than just a tiny baby bump, but I'm a little worried about the safety of it for her and the baby....if she happens to be asked to go through the scanner.

(There are 8 of us traveling together, so I think the odds of at least one of us being asked to go through a scanner is pretty good.)

From what we are being told, the scanner is safe for preagnant women. Of course your niece can opt for the pat down if she would rather.

 

[N965VJ]

I just posted a thread but wanted to comment on something similar. My DS23 lost his I.D. card and we went to DMV to replace it but since it is now mailed instead of given right then, he has to go through special screening process. I wonder if he will have to go through this body scanner if they have one at Reagan.

He will be asked questions to validate his identity, extra scrutiny of carryons, but he can still opt-out of the body scanner.

I wonder what happens when someone pregnant is asked to go through a scanner. Is that safe for them?

There have been no peer-reviewed studies confirming the government's claim that the body scanners are safe. With that in mind, I would opt-out.

 

[OzFan]

Saw this on another website, thought it was funny. We all need a chuckle every now and then!

Here's a simple solution to the controversy over full-body scanners
> at airports.
>
> Develop an enclosed booth that passengers step into but, instead of
> x-raying them, when the door closes, it will detonate any explosive
> device they have hidden on or in their body. The explosion will be
> contained within the sealed booth. This would be a win-win for
> everyone!
>
> There would be no concern about racial profiling. The booth would
> eliminate long, expensive trials.
>
> You're in the airport and you hear a muffled explosion, followed by
> an announcement over the PA system, "Attention standby passengers,
> we now have a seat available on flight number..."
>
> What's not to like?

 

[disneyfan55]

From what we are being told, the scanner is safe for preagnant women. Of course your niece can opt for the pat down if she would rather.

I know the TSA says this but a doctor on Fox this morning said pregnant women should not go through the scanners. I wouldn't go through one pregnant or not.