For $2 Billion Disney could have built 16 major attractions instead of fast pass+

[Laketravis]

That's pretty much what our experience has been. We were part of the "test" in 2012. In 2013, we had FP's scheduled but the paper ones were still available. This year, just the three FP's. And we were able to accomplish much less this year. Not like we ever toured the parks commando style or rode something 15 times in a row - it's because once we used those 3 FP's (which in half the parks means only one really good one), the waits for everything we wanted to do were unacceptably longer because everybody else had 3 FP's for the same things we did and we all had to stand in SB lines together for everything else.

I feel the same way. I pay so much for park tickets, I'm going to use the heck out of them. We don't even take afternoon breaks. It's park time all the way.

I also liked FP+ the first time I used it. We went in October 2013 (prior to tiers and while paper was still available). Not everyone was on the system, so there was so much same-day flexibility. I liked that we rode Soarin and TT on our arrival night. I liked not having to do FP running or to get to HS for the running of the bulls for TSMM. It was like paper FP, but better. But the tiers and bringing everyone onto the system wiped out almost all of the benefits for us.

 

[jade1]

I included Thanksgiving week in my comments (bolded below).

Like I said-that was our first Thanksgiving week ever-but the waits were really long, but not XMAS/EASTER types when we usually/always visit.

I don't see a need for any type of FP this week, but I'm used to horrible wait times.

 

[Laketravis]

Like I said-that was our first Thanksgiving week ever-but the waits were really long, but not XMAS/EASTER types when we usually/always visit.

I don't see a need for any type of FP this week, but I'm used to horrible wait times.

Have you been during Spring Break? Like the third week of March? We haven't, but we are going back next March during that time.

I'm curious what the benchmark for that time period might be over years past, and what we might see when we get there in terms of the same, less, or more.

Our parameters on that trip will be much like what you've described have been yours, with plans to probably include shorter evening-based visits to WDW parks.

So while it will be convenient to have one or two FP's set aside, it may or may not be worth it if there are hour-long queues for most everything else (we won't be staying on-site).

 

[jade1]

I find it funny that golfing and fishing are such a large part of your Disney vacation. I personally prefer to do things at Disney that I can't do here at home (Minnesota). But it's great it works for you! I really do think, though, you overestimate how important those non-park activities are to the vast majority of Disney guests. I know dozens of families who have visited Disney, and not one has even asked about golf or fishing.

I think I'm notable in that I was someone who LOVED the idea of FP+ when it was first introduced. I went and pulled all the patents, poured over every detail, and thought it sounded like the Best Idea Ever! I argued with the naysayers early on. And over time, my opinion has changed. The devil is in the execution, not in the idea. I think the idea itself is fabulous, but it would work so much better if there were more headliner-type attractions to spread guests around to. I still can't believe that there are people here who don't seem to acknowledge that ultimately, Disney has a capacity problem in Orlando. As they like to point out, MK keeps setting record attendance levels every year--yet the number of net attractions hasn't risen at the same pace. This should be universally unacceptable to us, and it's baffling that it's not. No matter whether you like, dislike, or are agnostic about FP+, we should all be able to agree that adding more attractions would be the best overall guest benefit. No matter what they do to FP+, I don't think my overall satisfaction with it will go up until it can do what was described in those patents, and the fact is it will never be able to do that without more a capacity. Those patents envisioned a world where guests could make FP+ selections freely throughout the day. In reality, that just doesn't work well if there are any types of crowds in the parks because availability is lacking for the "good" stuff.

FWIW, even though I'm not a fan of FP+, I've learned to deal with it. I do think it decreases the overall value of my personal park experience, though there are some positive aspects to it. I don't think it's going away, ever. FP+ simply provides too much valuable guest information to ever be discontinued. That doesn't mean I won't complain about the "good 'ole days" of FP-, though.

You've never heard of anybody taking a winter vacation to escape the 6 months of winter? And your from here?

Exactly how much golf are you doing these days?

Even ice fishing is not the same as Bay Lake, or open water fishing in shirt sleeves.

The thing is-we have been discussing "loyal" repeat visitors. That is when the group starts to venture out to other things.

You can ride Living with the Land 5 times in a row if you want-that doesn't mean we don't prefer SAB or a round of golf instead-especially when it 20 below zero at home.

And again-we could (as I stated quite clearly I thought) we can do a golf trip or fishing trip (yes even in the winter) better and cheaper, but that doubles the cost and time required, and we still prefer a daily dose of Disney each night.

Lastly-what about families that have Disney Fever-but not everyone in the family does? Like some husbands I know well, and some teenagers. Getting them down for some of these activities can help create family all inclusive vacations that no other place can.

 

[Laketravis]

You can ride Living with the Land 5 times in a row if you want.....

Not any more. Even the waits for that one have gotten ridiculous.

 

[jade1]

Have you been during Spring Break? Like the third week of March? We haven't, but we are going back next March during that time.

I'm curious what the benchmark for that time period might be over years past, and what we might see when we get there in terms of the same, less, or more.

Our parameters on that trip will be much like what you've described have been yours, with plans to probably include shorter evening-based visits to WDW parks.

So while it will be convenient to have one or two FP's set aside, it may or may not be worth it if there are hour-long queues for most everything else (we won't be staying on-site).

If it was Easter than yes, but this year it is April 5th so you should be much better off.

Anybody with tweens trying to ride all attractions, especially over and over, I recommend RD and late AM/mid day FP+, or RD one park and have late afternoon/early eve FP+ at another park (if AP or hoppers). Might even recommend grabbing favorites on more than one occasion if they are super popular.

Can even see a HP visit and MK at night-but some like the FOTL to well so maybe not.

I can't believe it will be worse than Thanksgiving week though.

Would expect some pretty darn good weather though.

 

[jade1]

Not any more. Even the waits for that one have gotten ridiculous.

Touche

 

[jtowntoflorida]

You've never heard of anybody taking a winter vacation to escape the 6 months of winter? And your from here?

Exactly how much golf are you doing these days?

Where did I say that people in MN don't go to warm weather destinations in the winter? We leave TOMORROW for Disney, in fact. What I said was that neither myself nor anyone I know chooses DISNEY as a golfing/fishing destination, winter or any other time of year, and I personally think it's odd that anyone would go to Disney to golf or fish. It's not like it's a premiere location for that, especially with so many other outstanding golfing and fishing locations in Florida. Fishing in Bay Lake would seem rather a letdown when you can drive a couple of hours to the Gulf and do some real fishing.

 

[jade1]

Where did I say that people in MN don't go to warm weather destinations in the winter? We leave TOMORROW for Disney, in fact. What I said was that neither myself nor anyone I know chooses DISNEY as a golfing/fishing destination, winter or any other time of year, and I personally think it's odd that anyone would go to Disney to golf or fish.

I still don't think your getting my point on this. But you inadvertently just made my point perfectly.

But first, you probably never heard of anyone taking a WDW vacation to visit US/IOA either. But many do. And FP+ means they can be back at WDW that evening with no wait on FP+ and a night show.

What your not connecting is many folks like to "blend" the limited time and resources together for their vacations.

1) Have you heard of anyone from MN taking a winter vacation somewhere warm for golf?

2) Have you heard of anyone from MN taking a winter vacation somewhere warm to fish?

3) Have you heard of anyone from MN taking a winter vacation somewhere warm to do both golf and fishing?

4) Have you heard of anyone from MN taking a winter vacation at WDW?

Now assuming you have answered yes to these:

1) Have you heard of anyone that can only take one week off and would prefer to do all of these-BUT- like most of us on the DIS really want to visit WDW, and have been to WDW many times, so why not do all of them.

Isn't it highly possible that family does not prefer 10 days of golf only, or 10 days of fishing only, even 5 days of each only if you found the right spot.

Why would that Disney addicted family not want to go into the MK after a round of golf or a morning of fishing?

Lastly-you just made my point for FP+ perfectly.

If you look back-you will find my "Clearwater Beach Day", that absolutely can be a fishing on the Gulf day-and guess what? You can still be back (AND WE WILL BE) for the 3 mountains FP+ with no wait.

Probably the Dolphin cruise, lunch at Frenchy's, then 7DMT/BTMRR/Space and Wishes that evening.

It's not like it's a premiere location for that, especially with so many other outstanding golfing and fishing locations in Florida. Fishing in Bay Lake would seem rather a letdown when you can drive a couple of hours to the Gulf and do some real fishing.

I beg to differ, this bass was a long battle to land.

 

[Laketravis]

I beg to differ, this bass was a long battle to land.

You had to throw it back, though, and that's the sucky thing about it

 

[katdralion]

You had to throw it back, though, and that's the sucky thing about it

Not for the fish!

 

[Davey Jones II]

You may be right that we, the Dis Posters, are a fairly representative sample of loyal guests, but considering all the dissention even here on the boards, what does it prove? Not all loyal guests fit into one bucket and share your opinion. Many of us like FP+ to varying degrees in addition to those who dislike it strongly. Those who dislike it are probably the more vocal segment, but they certainly do not represent all loyal guests.

No, but probably a majority.

When Disney polls guests in the parks, do they expect unanimity? So why do they bother with the polls? They probably want to draw out a majority opinion. It's always in there somewhere.

It's the same with these message boards. We know that Disney insiders read them. There's a reason for that.

 

[Davey Jones II]

I find it funny that golfing and fishing are such a large part of your Disney vacation. I personally prefer to do things at Disney that I can't do here at home (Minnesota). But it's great it works for you! I really do think, though, you overestimate how important those non-park activities are to the vast majority of Disney guests. I know dozens of families who have visited Disney, and not one has even asked about golf or fishing.

I think I'm notable in that I was someone who LOVED the idea of FP+ when it was first introduced. I went and pulled all the patents, poured over every detail, and thought it sounded like the Best Idea Ever! I argued with the naysayers early on. And over time, my opinion has changed. The devil is in the execution, not in the idea. I think the idea itself is fabulous, but it would work so much better if there were more headliner-type attractions to spread guests around to. I still can't believe that there are people here who don't seem to acknowledge that ultimately, Disney has a capacity problem in Orlando. As they like to point out, MK keeps setting record attendance levels every year--yet the number of net attractions hasn't risen at the same pace. This should be universally unacceptable to us, and it's baffling that it's not. No matter whether you like, dislike, or are agnostic about FP+, we should all be able to agree that adding more attractions would be the best overall guest benefit. No matter what they do to FP+, I don't think my overall satisfaction with it will go up until it can do what was described in those patents, and the fact is it will never be able to do that without more a capacity. Those patents envisioned a world where guests could make FP+ selections freely throughout the day. In reality, that just doesn't work well if there are any types of crowds in the parks because availability is lacking for the "good" stuff.

FWIW, even though I'm not a fan of FP+, I've learned to deal with it. I do think it decreases the overall value of my personal park experience, though there are some positive aspects to it. I don't think it's going away, ever. FP+ simply provides too much valuable guest information to ever be discontinued. That doesn't mean I won't complain about the "good 'ole days" of FP-, though.

Excellent points. And it's not just the ride count, it's also the dearth of headliners. Sure, first timers will book FP+ reservations for non-headliners. If they come back, they will learn, on subsequent visits, which rides are the best/most popular. Then reservations for the hot rides will run out even faster than Legacy FPs for TSMM in the old days.

So until more people eating star attractions are built, FP+ will always be a band-aid solution. I guess it works for some touring styles. But more attractions (whether they replace duds or add to the total number of attractions) is the only real solution.

I will add that the new system didn't ruin our October trip, either. We adjusted to it, and we stayed long enough in Orlando to do (more or less) everything we wanted. But the crowding situation is getting a little ridiculous. Disney's theme park business is booming, and it's pretty upsetting that their top priority was rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[jade1]

Disney's theme park business is booming.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

I'm not going to quote your very long post, but what it comes down to is that your vacation style is very different from mine. You do your blended vacations, and are happy with three rides/day. We don't do blended vacations. If we want to go to the beach, we go to the beach. Right now, we dedicate our time in Orlando to Disney (next year, when the kids are older, it will be a Universal/Disney split) and we're not happy with three rides/day. You and I will never agree on this fundamentally because we look for different things in an Orlando vacation.

Is FP+ workable for me? Absolutely. I just don't find it to be a huge benefit and I liked the legacy FP system better. However, I can see how great it is for you...and that's wonderful. But our family is far different from yours...my kids are little, we do spend most of our time in the parks, we don't have any interest taking excursions away from Disney (well, except to Harry Potter land, which we're not doing because one of the kids isn't tall enough yet), and we do like to ride rides. So your ability to get 3 FP+s for the Mountains in an evening isn't going to look like a huge benefit to me because that's not what I want from my vacation.

Now, our "Disney arrival" day is Saturday. Our flight gets in late tomorrow and we're staying at the MCO Hyatt, and then making our way to the Wilderness Lodge once we wake up Saturday morning. I have FP+s scheduled for 12-1, 1-2, and 4-5...two mountains and Peter Pan. I know I wouldn't be able to ride those rides without substantial waits that time of day on an evening EMH Saturday during party season without FP+. But that's one day of our 8 day vacation. One day where FP+ works better for us than the old system. The benefit of that one day just doesn't outweigh the "cost" of the system the other days.

None of us are saying you're wrong with your opinions; all we're saying is that your screen shots aren't impressive for those of us who look for something very different out of our Disney experience.

 

[JimmyV]

What I said was that neither myself nor anyone I know chooses DISNEY as a golfing/fishing destination, winter or any other time of year, and I personally think it's odd that anyone would go to Disney to golf or fish. It's not like it's a premiere location for that, especially with so many other outstanding golfing and fishing locations in Florida.

I have taken a golf vacation at WDW. Our foursome stayed in a Treehouse (1988) and we played 36 holes a day at the WDW courses and at Grand Cypress. Ate our meals at the nicer restaurants at WDW with the best being The Empress Room. We went to the parks at night for a couple of hours but skipped some days. This was back in the day when our foursome would take one or two such trips a year to places like Pinehurst, Doral, Innisbrook and Amelia Island. Our WDW golf vacation was every bit as enjoyable as those others if not more so.

 

[Laketravis]

I have taken a golf vacation at WDW. Our foursome stayed in a Treehouse (1988) and we played 36 holes a day at the WDW courses and at Grand Cypress. Ate our meals at the nicer restaurants at WDW with the best being The Empress Room. We went to the parks at night for a couple of hours but skipped some days. This was back in the day when our foursome would take one or two such trips a year to places like Pinehurst, Doral, Innisbrook and Amelia Island. Our WDW golf vacation was every bit as enjoyable as those others if not more so.

I wish I could say I've done the same, but I've been banned from most golf courses for several years now.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I definitely would not be one to take a combo Disney/golf/fishing/boating trip. Frankly, we have so many things we want to do in the theme parks, it's either Disney OR Universal/SW/water parks. Definitely no time to squeeze in fishing, as fun as that sounds.

 

[JimmyV]

I definitely would not be one to take a combo Disney/golf/fishing/boating trip. Frankly, we have so many things we want to do in the theme parks, it's either Disney OR Universal/SW/water parks. Definitely no time to squeeze in fishing, as fun as that sounds.

OK. Fishing I can see. Lots of lakes (and ocean) in and around FL that are far better suited for fishing than WDW. But the golf is...here comes the pun...on par with other golf resorts. The thing is, you have to divorce yourself from the notion that you are "squeezing it in" and go with the attitude that you are there for a golf vacation surrounded by incredibly beautiful landscaping, happy people, cool hotels, things to do at night, and, if possible, maybe you "squeeze in some park time". It is odd for a Dis'er to ever think that parks should be secondary to any other activity. But it is possible. Just as the runners do during marathon time. They are there to run, and maybe squeeze in some park time as opposed to going to parks and maybe "squeezing in some running". All that said, I have to agree with you on the fishing (and horseback riding). I could never see making that a focal point of my trip. But when I read posts about people taking 10-14 day vacations at WDW, I wonder why so many of them don't at least dip their toes into these activities. 10-14 days of nothing but parks doesn't appeal to me at all.

 

[SCDisneyfanatic]

We stay at Shades of Green...it's surrounded by the Magnolia and Palms Golf courses. In a seven day vacation, we normally play each course once. These courses are PGA level courses with a military discount ($69). No way we can play courses of this caliber at that price anywhere else (and since I'm from Myrtle Beach, the golf capitol of the world, I know a great course when I see it). We love seeing all the Disney Shows...we get in plenty of rides every day...we enjoy a top level restaurant each night. Vacation, for us, is about having a great time with family...not seeing how much stuff we can cram into a 24 hour day. I have no issue with those that want to ride 50 rides a day to feel they are "Getting their money's worth"...but not everyone vacations the same or for the same reason.