Florida High-Speed Rail -- MCO to WDW

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Interesting day in the news...

I'm sure there will be lots of speculation as to how this will get done. Bad news for Towncars and Mears.


Orlando Sentinal Article

Latest reports say that Bombardier will be the company that will build the system. Bombardier is the manufacturer of Disney's Mark VI monorail trains, as well as the Las Vegas M-VI monorail trains.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Here's another article from the Associated Press:

Associated Press

ORLANDO, Fla. -- A proposed bullet train across central Florida should run directly from Orlando International Airport to Walt Disney World, bypassing the Orange County Convention Center, a state panel voted Monday.



The Florida High Speed Rail Authority's 7-to-1 decision ended a debate that has simmered since voters, in a constitutional amendment passed in 2000, mandated the construction of a bullet train network spanning the state.

Disney, a unit of Walt Disney Co. (DIS, news), sold the authority on the potential revenue gained if the train's Orlando-area leg followed the Central Florida GreeneWay toll road from the airport, instead of taking the more northerly Beeline Expressway to the nation's third-largest convention hall. With either route, the train would continue on to Tampa, to the Southwest.

The resort promised to place on the trains 2.2 million riders a year, people who currently are bused to their destinations by Disney. The convention center could offer less than one-quarter of those "captive riders," giving the GreeneWay route a projected $15 million advantage in annual revenues.

The resort also promised to donate 50 acres of land for a station where three major traffic arteries meet east of Disney World.

The state predicts the leg could cost as much as $2.5 billion. Despite approval by voters, high-speed rail has been decried as a boondoggle by Gov. Jeb Bush and many legislators, and their approval of any plan hinges upon making the system as inexpensive as possible.

The two contractors vying to run the system are Fluor-Bombardier, builder of the nation's only current bullet train line, the Northeast corridor's Acela; and Global Rail Consortium, a partnership of several companies that has no experience in developing a system on the scale projected for Florida.

The train could be in operation as early as December 2008.

 

[Tina]

That's awesome! I'll ride the train. I'm tired of being jerked around by all of the towncar companies. Now if only they'd run one directly from my home to the resorts, so I can bypass the airport.....

 

[seashoreCM]

The way the story was told to me was that Disney would not permit a stop at WDW unless the train ran non-stop from MCO to that stop.

A train stop at WDW could become Ticket & Transportation Center II, served by Disney buses.

A train route via the convention center, with some stops in the vicinity, and which would probably serve many Disney cast members' commuting better, could very well stop on 192 or on 535 near Hotel Plaza. Whether Disney buses would serve such stops remains open to debate.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

 

[JimC]

Here is link to the entire project, so you can follow along. Ambitious, but the proof is in the funding and that is not yet guaranteed.

http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org

 

[kylara]

According to last nights news, the reason Disney wanted the train to come directly there is because it is suppose to be a high speed train with few stops. Having stops at the Convention Center, Universal, Sea World, etc, defeats the idea of High Speed. One of the agreements for having it go the Greenway route direct to Disney is that Disney will provide a hub for some local trains (lightrail style) to the Convention Center/International Drive area.

Another reason cited by the local news was that the Greenway offered a better construction zone...right down the center median and thus easier than the Bee Line route.

So it was a matter of Disney offering higher ridership, an easier construction route and basically putting some money and guarantees on the table. The Convention Center/International Drive route proponents weren't doing that. Once again, Disney realizes that money talks.

 

[disneyberry]

glad to hear this news.
now if only they can get funding.
this would be a much more convenient way to get to WDW from airport.
plus we could have more options, i.e. fly into MCO or TPA and hop on the train to WDW.

 

[NotUrsula]

Bad for Mears, certainly. Bad for towncars, wellllll maybe.

I do believe that solos and adult couples will often take the train if they are arriving for short trips, but families w/ lots of luggage will probably still opt for the towncars if they don't plan on renting a vehicle. They might *try* the train, but most will conclude that transferring once they get on-property is too much hassle.

I'm basing this on my experiences with other airports that have train connections, even those that are express connections, such as the Heathrow and Gatwick express trains in London. If you have a lot of baggage and children to keep up with, making your way to the train platform in the airport, buying the correct tickets, and then taking your luggage off the train and into a cab/bus, etc. to take the last leg to a hotel *can* be a bit daunting. We always prefer train transfers, but I've found that as a travelling family, we are unusual. Besides, most Americans are not used to trains, and will choose road transport because it is what they are used to. (Also, don't forget the Holy Grocery Stop.)

I understand the Disney POV; they had the muscle, and they used it, and the state chose to take the savings that having Disney foot a big chunk of the bill provided. However, the truth is that I think conventioneers and foreign tourists (usually bound for the I-drive area) constitute the largest market for the train. I've got to think that there will still one day be a direct train from MCO to the OCCC; they will probably end up using profits from the Greenway route to fund it.

 

[seashoreCM]

If the high speed train had just one stop in the vicinity of the Convention Center, then bus and trolley feeder service would complement it. Even if this stop was a flag stop where to save time the baggage car wasn't opened, it would serve lots of people well.

On the other hand, with the high speed train that only stops in the region at MCO and WDW, train or trolley service to the convention center would be a new project that starts from square one, as if the high speed train wasn't there.

How often would this train run? If it ran once an hour, there will still be a lot of WDW travelers opting for town cars.

 

[GoldenOldie]

Originally posted by Chip 'n Dale Express
Here's another article from the Associated Press:

...The resort promised to place on the trains 2.2 million riders a year, people who currently are bused to their destinations by Disney.
...

Hmmm, just where do you catch those buses that Disney currently uses to get 2.2 million guests from MCO to WDW each year? I'd like to take one next time I'm at MCO.

Maybe the Disney execs in Burbank that write that propaganda think Disney has bus service there. LOL!

 

[NotUrsula]

>>Even if this stop was a flag stop where to save time the baggage car wasn't opened, it would serve lots of people well.<<

High-speed express links which serve airports are almost never built with baggage cars. Instead, they are set up very like the interior of a rental car shuttle bus, only larger. There is a large luggage rack at each end of the passenger car that is meant to hold the luggage; you put it on the rack when you get on, and take it off as you get off.

Usually the frequency of a train like this varies during the day, depending on when the largest numbers of flights arrive. London's Gatwick Express, for example, departs every 15 minutes from 6 am to midnight, but only every 30 minutes the rest of the time.

The MCO trains are going to be a bit different because they will (eventually) continue to Tampa, but I'm guessing that the primary interval will be about every 30 minutes during peak arrival times. One of the things that makes a difference in that aspect is the size of the train. It may be possible that they will vary the number of cars and only do the Tampa run with every other train, though my first guess would be that that one will have to transfer for Tampa at the WDW station.

 

[u4ik]

But the question I have is at what point do the benefits outweight the costs? I mean - yea, a bullet train is cool, but where is the need - it is already being served by the buses and trains within reasonable limits. At a price tag of up to $2,500,000,000.00 - it seems like is something Florida cannot afford. Of course, Disney would love to have it for free or even for 50 acres of their land next to the highway - who can blame them for wanting that development to happen...

 

[helenk]

GoldenOldie,

I would suspect that the bus service they refer to is the Mears Transportation. Since Mears is the offical transportation for WDW I am guessing that is where they are getting their numbers.

 

[NotUrsula]

Trains are immune to traffic, and that is crucial. If the system is completed, almost all of Florida will become accessible in terms of a daily commute. You would be able to live in Jacksonville and commute to Orlando if you wanted to. This is really not a bad idea in a state that is a peninsula -- put the homes on the water and the industry inland. Also, there are several cruise ports in Florida, and taking all those retirees directly to them is going to be profitable. (BTW, will anyone be surprised if phase 2 shifts to the MCO - Canaveral route, rather than Daytona as currently planned?)

Just like the toll roads fund the local road construction, the hope is that the tourist traffic will fund the local routes. The strategy is successful here in St. Louis (though it's light rail, not high speed), where the airport route was built first so that it would be profitable. It's not an accident that a ticket from the airport to downtown costs 2X what a ticket from downtown to the airport costs. Now, this is primarily business travel, not tourism, but you get the point. Trips that originate at the airport are priced higher to put the cost burden on tourists, which is exactly what I expect will be the case at MCO. If they have sense, they will privatise the operation of the trains themselves; the public investment should be limited to the infrastructure.

 

[Lewisc]

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Go through the airport until you get to the train station (remember MCO has 2 sides), take the train to a new type of TTC and then take a bus to your resort. You have to move your luggage twice. Not sure you'll even save much time by the time you get finished.

Not sure how this is any better than Mears. I guess if there is an accident or peak traffic you might save some time. As far as the towncar companies I'm sure the train will be priced per person. A family that wants a grocery stop may still go for a towncar.

 

[crzy4dsny]

I would still go with a car service. Your going to have to walk to this train in the airport with your luggage. Wait for it if it's not there. Get all your luggage and kids on to it. Arrive at Disney get all your luggage off of it. Walk with your luggage to a bus stop. Wait for a bus. Carry all your luggage onto a bus. Drive to resort. Carry all your luggage off bus. Sounds like a lot of work and time to me

 

[Dancind]

When I heard about this, I thought it would be perfect for trips when DH isn't along. He's the one that has to have a car. I'm also hoping that it would occur to WDW to have porters at the station at WDW (or even better, at the airport station!) to check your luggage with. Then you'd only have to worry about getting yourself to your resort, and your luggage would appear when you call for it. Wouldn't that be nice? Sure would be a nice benefit for staying on-site. Diana

 

[kylara]

I think that this would be used by a lot of the conventioneers that go to WDW. After all, often they only bring one bag (if family is not with them) and the cost of a taxi, towncar and even Mears can add up. With many companies trying to save on travel cost, this would offer a lower cost alternative.

I know that when I went to Portland, I used their lightrail system to get to my hotel. And many of the other people at the conference did too.

And while this might seem to be a waste of money to many, remember, much of FL's road system is not ready for the traffic we have now. Many of our highways are only 4 lanes (2 and 2) and widening them is slow going. Much of FL is growing faster than the infrastructure and we need to start looking at alternative transportation. Bullet rail to connect the major cities and light rail in those cities could help quite a bit, 'specially for those who depend on public transportation.

 

[Biddler]

Not great news for a family with small kids. You would still have to transfer wherever the train stops and get to your hotel. It will probably take much longer than using the town car services. I wouls prefer private transportation any day to a mass transit system.

 

[indigo]

The luggage issue is not that big of a stumbling block. Here in Vegas, most large hotels have a service that will pick up your luggage at the airport and have a bell hop deliver it to your room when you desire.

Whether by truck or a special compartment in the train, this can certainly be accomplished by Disney with the usual level of Guest Service.

-Indigo-