Flat Tax?

[Mickeyluver37]

With 47% of Americans paying absolutely ZERO federal income tax, there has to be something done to make things more fair. When people don't have "skin in the game" they have no incentive to reduce spending or to ensure that tax dollars are spent judiciously.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just start with eliminating the EIC? I wonder how much of that 47% not only doesn't pay in, but actually has a negative tax rate.

 

[kamik86]

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just start with eliminating the EIC? I wonder how much of that 47% not only doesn't pay in, but actually has a negative tax rate.

Even if you don't eliminate it but simply make it so that it is impossible to have a negative tax rate. I would be happy if they just changed this to make your tax rate to go 0 but that you can't get back more then you put in.

 

[eliza61]

While blaming Washington is always the easier solution, doesn't the US population also deserve blame? Not only are we the ones that have elected these people, we are also the ones that have created a society where people expect the govt to do more for them.. We have created a lifestyle where people expect to live in a 3000 SQF house, have 2 nice cars, have cell phones, high speed internet, eat out 5 times a week, a few plasmas, cable TV etc.. Seems we as Americans are going to have a hard time having all of that AND compete with China..

Now to make matters worse, in the great pursuit to get all of that, there is a whole generation of folks who are about to retire with very little to no savings so these folks have absolutely no choice but to depend on social security and medicaid.

See we can agree on some issues. Did you see the new cnn poll Tiger? Lets see, basically it said all Americans want to reduce the deficiet butttt
87% don't want to see any cuts in Medicare
75% don't want any change in social security.

http://theweek.com/article/index/214469/can-the-gop-convince-its-base-to-back-medicare-cuts


I think it's more fundementally then expecting the govt to do it for them, for some reason we've turned into a nation that thinks it DESERVES every thing?

Look at our own boards, people post all the time that they really can't afford Disney but "you know the kids are only young once" or "we have to have a disney vacation because its our time to reconnect". I always want to ask, so what do you do the other 51 weeks of the year? Ignore each other?

When did we become a nation where a 3500square foot house was a starter house and your kid was abused if he/she didn't go to disneyworld?

I think when the 70's rolled around and everyone was told to "make yourself happy" or "it's all about me", we took that phrase freakin literally and ran amok.

 

[leahjade]

Example in point: While at the grocery store yesterday, the man in front of me paid $40 cash for lottery tickets then used his Welfare Access card for his groceries. Something is wrong with a system where someone has enough cash that much gambling but can't buy his own food. When he left, the clerk said she sees the same thing every day. I know I could never afford $40 in lottery tickets and my income is strictly middle class stuff

California welfare recipients are able to use state-issued debit cards to withdraw cash on gaming floors in more than half of the casinos in the state, a Los Angeles Times review of records found.

The cards, provided by the Department of Social Services to help recipients feed and clothe their families, work in automated teller machines at 32 of 58 tribal casinos and 47 of 90 state-licensed poker rooms, the review found.

 

[LisaTC]

Example in point: While at the grocery store yesterday, the man in front of me paid $40 cash for lottery tickets then used his Welfare Access card for his groceries. Something is wrong with a system where someone has enough cash that much gambling but can't buy his own food. When he left, the clerk said she sees the same thing every day. I know I could never afford $40 in lottery tickets and my income is strictly middle class stuff

This is horrendous. I remember long ago working in a Pharmacy and having people come in with their Medicaid cards yelling at me because they didn't want the generic, even though that was what was required to be dispensed, and turning around and buying cigarettes and beer with cash and their children were filthy in ratty clothes and I so wanted to have a teachable moment saying, the t-shirts are on sale over there for $1.99 and the soap is in Aisle 12. You can't control humans. Wouldn't there be an brouhaha if all businesses were mandated to deduct 10% of everyone's paycheck to be put into an actual retirement fund. There sure isn't any easy answer. It's the same with funding schools based on property taxes...that is failing miserably.

The "air" of entitlement smells funny...

 

[Jeff_G]

This is horrendous. I remember long ago working in a Pharmacy and having people come in with their Medicaid cards yelling at me because they didn't want the generic, even though that was what was required to be dispensed, and turning around and buying cigarettes and beer with cash and their children were filthy in ratty clothes and I so wanted to have a teachable moment saying, the t-shirts are on sale over there for $1.99 and the soap is in Aisle 12. You can't control humans. Wouldn't there be an brouhaha if all businesses were mandated to deduct 10% of everyone's paycheck to be put into an actual retirement fund. There sure isn't any easy answer. It's the same with funding schools based on property taxes...that is failing miserably.

The "air" of entitlement smells funny...

How about they take the 15% (11.5 for 2011) they already deducting from me today for FICA and put that into my OWN retirement account vs the government run Ponzi scheme called Social security... Ohh wait we can’t do that, we spent all the money we were supposed to set aside for SS.

“A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors, not from any actual profit earned by the organization, but from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors.”

How come when Madhoff does this he goes to prison, but when the federal government does it we call it the “New Deal”.

 

[LisaTC]

How come when Madhoff does this he goes to prison, but when the federal government does it we call it the “New Deal”.

How about raw deal? When SS was implemented the average live expectancy was 62, hence retirement SS benefits were set at 65, made sense. However, they failed to keep up with the times, started giving it to just about everyone and ran out of shekels. I like your idea better! FICA is a 4 letter word.

 

[Charade]

Currently there are over 70,000 pages in the US tax code (I think that's just federal). I'd be OK with eliminating many deductions as long as the rate is reduced too so people don't have to hire an tax guy (or buy a program) to get just fairly uncomplicated taxes filed. So I would support a significant reduction in the complexity of the tax code.

I mean, who thinks up this crap (you can only deduct the boat you bought to use for work if it's 1)blue 2) over 25 feet and 1/2 inch long 3) bought on the last Sunday in March 4) weighs less than the moon 5) use pineapple juice for fuel 6) has seating for 1 (or more) 7) and can't be claimed by your 3 year old on their tax return.

IMHO the federal government should be Constitutionally bound to a balanced budget (with no accounting shenanigans to make it appear balanced).

 

[Jeff_G]

IMHO the federal government should be Constitutionally bound to a balanced budget (with no accounting shenanigans to make it appear balanced).

The problem as I see it, some politician is going to have to stand in front of America and say, were broke, and the only way to fix it is to cut cut cut. Social security, defense, education, farming subsides, free school lunch, food stamps, unemployment payments, Medicaid… the list goes on and on. Everything will need to be cut and we as American will need to live with that.

Any politician who does stand up and say that will not get elected or re-elected. People are too willing to have the wool pulled over their eyes with promises that cannot be kept, pretending there is nothing wrong so they can go back to watching the latest reality tv show.

 

[mrodgers]

The problem as I see it, some politician is going to have to stand in front of America and say, were broke, and the only way to fix it is to cut cut cut. Social security, defense, education, farming subsides, free school lunch, food stamps, unemployment payments, Medicaid… the list goes on and on. Everything will need to be cut and we as American will need to live with that.

That's not quite the cuts I would be thinking of. I would be thinking more of congress and salaries, and perks, and lavish dining, and transportation, etc at the cost of the taxpayers.

The biggest problem is that being a politician use to be a service but has become a career. Putting the title "politician" back to being a service for the country rather than a high paying career for an individual and things would be much better.

 

[timmac]

That's not quite the cuts I would be thinking of. I would be thinking more of congress and salaries, and perks, and lavish dining, and transportation, etc at the cost of the taxpayers.

Though it might on the surface seem like a solution, once one does the math it's pretty clear that the numbers don't work out. Problem with the logic is that there's a very small number of politicians relative to the overall capita of the nation. Even if you took away a half million dollars worth of expense per year per congressman/senator, that's only $270 million.

On the other hand, programs that are utilized by perhaps 10 million individuals at a cost of only $500 per person is a $5 billion price tag for the country.

The biggest problem is that being a politician use to be a service but has become a career. Putting the title "politician" back to being a service for the country rather than a high paying career for an individual and things would be much better.

This is a great point, and I like this sentiment a lot. I don't know that it would be an end to all problems, but it would certainly be a nice change of heart to see.

 

[DISNEYSIX]

I voted yes but I am really a big fan of the Fair Tax. I originate mortgages for a living and I just reviewed a self-employed borrower's tax return and he grossed over $58,000 on his Schedule C, wrote off about 70% in the form of expenses and walked away with over $5,000 in a tax refund due to all the tax credits. Get this, he didn't pay one red cent in taxes. Fair Tax is the only way to get the tax cheats and illegals.

 

[Planogirl]

That's not quite the cuts I would be thinking of. I would be thinking more of congress and salaries, and perks, and lavish dining, and transportation, etc at the cost of the taxpayers.

The biggest problem is that being a politician use to be a service but has become a career. Putting the title "politician" back to being a service for the country rather than a high paying career for an individual and things would be much better.

I was thinking foreign aid too. I would rather take care of home rather than everywhere else, at least to some extent.

 

[Jeff_G]

The national debt as I write this post is: $14,290,788,661,250.50
Fourteen TRILLION dollars...

But what does a trillion dollars look like, heck what does a million look like:

Check out this web site which shows what a million dollars, billion dollars, then trillion looks like if we were to take that and stack it up

http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html
Also check this one to see the national debt
http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/usdebt.html

 

[hugastar]

I vote for a flat tax.

In my opinion, the poor don't pay much tax, they get money back. The rich don't pay much tax, they use too many tax deductions. The middle class pays the most tax, and that's just not fair.

If flat tax was implemented ALL will pay according to their earnings, and NO exmptions.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

That's not quite the cuts I would be thinking of. I would be thinking more of congress and salaries, and perks, and lavish dining, and transportation, etc at the cost of the taxpayers.

Most people in Congress are currently making $174K a year, while certainly a good salary, not crazy high considering they are in charge of the most powerful country in the world..by comparison, the average salary for the 800 plus school superintendents in the state of Illinois is around $155K..

 

[Colleen27]

Most people in Congress are currently making $174K a year, while certainly a good salary, not crazy high considering they are in charge of the most powerful country in the world..by comparison, the average salary for the 800 plus school superintendents in the state of Illinois is around $155K..

Yeah, but how many of those superintendents are fully vested in pension and lifelong health insurance after only 5 years? That's the area of Congressional compensation that bothers me the most - they're willing to ask/demand that us "little people" accept the elimination of things like defined benefit retirement plans and retiree health coverage, even when those things were contractually promised and already earned, but the vast majority are insulated from ever making that same sacrifice themselves (as though federal employee retirement plans are somehow more viable than private sector or state/local govt plans).

 

[Charade]

I vote for a flat tax.

In my opinion, the poor don't pay much tax, they get money back. The rich don't pay much tax, they use too many tax deductions. The middle class pays the most tax, and that's just not fair.

If flat tax was implemented ALL will pay according to their earnings, and NO exmptions.

I believe once you get above a certain income level, some of the deductions the middle class get are not available to the rich.

 

[Liltx]

If you mean the end to deductions then "NO WAY". My husband's small business would collapes. He already pays a MUCH higher rate being self employed. If he could not deduct expenses and mileage we would be sunk. Well, he would just go to work for a company and actually pay less in taxes. Would you be willing to pick up the difference? This would happen to lots of small businesses. Flat tax would probably cause more problems for the country than good. There are cheaters everywhere and no matter what changes are made they will find a way to cheat.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

I vote for a flat tax.

In my opinion, the poor don't pay much tax, they get money back. The rich don't pay much tax, they use too many tax deductions. The middle class pays the most tax, and that's just not fair.

If flat tax was implemented ALL will pay according to their earnings, and NO exmptions.

If you use percentages what you say might be true, but use real numbers and you couldn't be further from the truth..