Flags at half mast today at the World

[SwirlyGirly]

Wow, I've read some shameful posts before, but there's a few in this thread that take the cake. There are some people who will argue against anything.

 

[Wadecool]

*
I just don't understand why people have to talk ill of others when they have deceased. Steve Jobs was an innovator that thought out of the box. He has literally changed the world with the iphone, mac computer and other technologies that the world uses today. He's the Henry Ford of the 21st century.

RIP Steve...

Brunette

I agree with some of what you say Brunnette, and I would agree that Steve Jobs has contributed something to society, but calling him the Henry Ford of the 21st century may be a stretch. Let's not forget that Steve Wozniak was the actual brains behind the technology that put Apple on the map, not
Jobs.

 

[Jey12]

This post needs to be preserved for future generations.

It might be one of the most screwed-up posts in the entire history of the Dis (and that's saying quite a bit). You managed to bring Hitler into a thread about the memory of well-regarded human being who just passed, and then complain that the departed individual didn't cure global warming, human overpopulation and cancer.

Nice job.

Thank you. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around all of that. Although I was hoping the Salem Witch Trials could somehow be tied in. Maybe on the next page of this flag debate?

I don't have any issues with Disney lowering the flag. As long as they aren't lowering it onto the ground. I think Steve Jobs was an amazing person for his accomplishments and should be remembered. I personally wouldn't lower my flag for this reason, but I can respect why Disney chose to.

While we're debating everything from Hitler to Global warming here's another FYI that I found to be important.

Ralph Steinman is also dead. He died 3 days before he got the Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine. He did not drop out of college to make a billion dollar company. His estate is now worth a million due to the prize money. He will have touched all of us and all of the future generations to come having discovered one of the secrets of how immunity against viruses or bacteria are translated into an immune response by adaptation of the immune cells. This will lead the way in discovering how autoimmune conditions and allergies develop. His research will create billions in dollars in revenue for drug companies and new leases on life for billions of people. Science, humble, broke unrecognized and helping humanity for 5000 years.

 

[Wadecool]

Thank you. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around all of that. Although I was hoping the Salem Witch Trials could somehow be tied in. Maybe on the next page of this flag debate?

I don't have any issues with Disney lowering the flag. As long as they aren't lowering it onto the ground. I think Steve Jobs was an amazing person for his accomplishments and should be remembered. I personally wouldn't lower my flag for this reason, but I can respect why Disney chose to.

While we're debating everything from Hitler to Global warming here's another FYI that I found to be important.

Ralph Steinman is also dead. He died 3 days before he got the Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine. He did not drop out of college to make a billion dollar company. His estate is now worth a million due to the prize money. He will have touched all of us and all of the future generations to come having discovered one of the secrets of how immunity against viruses or bacteria are translated into an immune response by adaptation of the immune cells. This will lead the way in discovering how autoimmune conditions and allergies develop. His research will create billions in dollars in revenue for drug companies and new leases on life for billions of people. Science, humble, broke unrecognized and helping humanity for 5000 years.

Now there's someone worthy of lowering flags to half staff.

 

[Wall-E1]

Now there's someone worthy of lowering flags to half staff.

And I'm happy to report that the flag at Rockefeller University in New York has been lowered to half staff...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/photo/2011-10/04/c_131173610_5.htm

Rockefeller University is an institution devoted solely to biomedical research. It is appropriate that the flag has been lowered to half staff there since Ralph Steinman was a cell biologist who made great contributions to biomedical research. it is also appropriate that Disney lowered their flags to half staff for Steve Jobs because of his contributions to Disney. In my opinion, both men fully deserve the honor that they are receiving at both places.

 

[jekjones1558]

And I'm happy to report that the flag at Rockefeller University in New York has been lowered to half staff...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/photo/2011-10/04/c_131173610_5.htm

Rockefeller University is an institution devoted solely to biomedical research. It is appropriate that the flag has been lowered to half staff there since Ralph Steinman was a cell biologist who made great contributions to biomedical research. it is also appropriate that Disney lowered their flags to half staff for Steve Jobs because of his contributions to Disney. In my opinion, both men fully deserve the honor that they are receiving at both places.

 

[Jey12]

And I'm happy to report that the flag at Rockefeller University in New York has been lowered to half staff...

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/photo/2011-10/04/c_131173610_5.htm

Rockefeller University is an institution devoted solely to biomedical research. It is appropriate that the flag has been lowered to half staff there since Ralph Steinman was a cell biologist who made great contributions to biomedical research. it is also appropriate that Disney lowered their flags to half staff for Steve Jobs because of his contributions to Disney. In my opinion, both men fully deserve the honor that they are receiving at both places.

Fully agree with you! DD's grade school lowered their flags (all of them) to half staff due to the passing of a beloved teacher last month. I've seen fire and police stations lower theirs when one of their own has died on duty. It's a matter of perspective and way to show respect based on individual perspective. As long as the US flag is higher than all other flags being displayed, the flag is not being displayed in what would be deemed a disrespectful manner, and the it's not being lowered to a point where it's on the ground or stuck in a tree, or near an open flame there's no harm.

 

[BlueChariot]

Okay, I admit that I only made it to page 4 of this thread before I HAD to say something.

I am absolutely appalled that Disney lowered the American Flag to half-staff for Steve Jobs. Notwithstanding what Jobs may have contributed to our society (and the position he held with Disney), just because you CAN do something with impunity does not mean to you SHOULD.

As PP, I am shocked at how the American Flag is mistreated in our society. No, it is not a "law" to fly the flag at half staff (or not... whatever the case may be), but really??? Just because you can legally burn the American Flag, I am still shocked and upset when I see it. Same thing for me on this issue.

If you want to lower the Disney flag to half-staff... great, have at it. But I really don't think it is necessary (or appropriate) to lower the American Flag.

 

[mking624]

Okay, I admit that I only made it to page 4 of this thread before I HAD to say something.

I am absolutely appalled that Disney lowered the American Flag to half-staff for Steve Jobs. Notwithstanding what Jobs may have contributed to our society (and the position he held with Disney), just because you CAN do something with impunity does not mean to you SHOULD.

As PP, I am shocked at how the American Flag is mistreated in our society. No, it is not a "law" to fly the flag at half staff (or not... whatever the case may be), but really??? Just because you can legally burn the American Flag, I am still shocked and upset when I see it. Same thing for me on this issue.

If you want to lower the Disney flag to half-staff... great, have at it. But I really don't think it is necessary (or appropriate) to lower the American Flag.

Considering the government says it's ok, how is lowering the flag in honor of someone's passing somehow mistreating it? Or is it only mistreating it because you say so? Did lowering it for 9/11 meet your approval or was that mistreating it too? Because Disney did the same for that (which, interestingly enough, did NOT stir up controversy on here this past September). And to compare it to flag burning? Really?

I find it appalling that people are turning this into a ridiculous controversy. You'd think by some of the responses here that the American flag has somehow achieved deity status with amazing powers that should never dare be bestowed on the lowly ones...unless, of course, certain DISers approve.

So much for respecting & honoring the deceased.

 

[BlueChariot]

Considering the government says it's ok, how is lowering the flag in honor of someone's passing somehow mistreating it? Or is it only mistreating it because you say so? And to compare it to flag burning? Really?

I find it appalling that people are turning this into a ridiculous controversy. You'd think by some of the responses here that the American flag has somehow achieved deity status with amazing powers that should never dare be bestowed on the lowly ones...unless, of course, certain DISers approve.

So much for respecting & honoring the deceased.

I'm all for respecting and honoring the deceased. As I said, you want to lower Disney flags... great. However, there is a flag "guide / code" for a reason. Its out of respect for your country. Steve Jobs has done wonderful things... I own an iPod... la la la la. But that doesn't mean I think the American Flag should be lowered to honor him.

Um, and yes, to some people the American flag is an amazing power... where exactly do you think Francis Scott Key came up with our National Anthem? So yes, I compare this to flag burning, or wearing a bathing suit or t-shirt made out of the American Flag, or flying a flag that is tattered, torn, and faded... they are all equally egregious to me. Perhaps I am too much of a patriot.

 

[nytimez]

Perhaps I am too much of a patriot.

Don't pull that card. The people here who support this gesture -- which was consistent with the law AND the flag code -- are no less patriotic than you.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Nevermind...

 

[jayandstacey]

I'm all for respecting and honoring the deceased. As I said, you want to lower Disney flags... great. However, there is a flag "guide / code" for a reason. Its out of respect for your country. Steve Jobs has done wonderful things... I own an iPod... la la la la. But that doesn't mean I think the American Flag should be lowered to honor him.

Um, and yes, to some people the American flag is an amazing power... where exactly do you think Francis Scott Key came up with our National Anthem? So yes, I compare this to flag burning, or wearing a bathing suit or t-shirt made out of the American Flag, or flying a flag that is tattered, torn, and faded... they are all equally egregious to me. Perhaps I am too much of a patriot.

Thank goodness this country isn't run by such "patriots" who would want to limit my rights. I always find it appalling that such sentiments are often followed with accusations of disrespect and an appeal to create laws preventing further egregious actions.

But as it turns out, the discourse is an excercise in the right to have an opinion, the postings are an excercise in the right of free speech, and the flag lowering an exercise in the right to honor, in that way, someone who's died.

So I'm all for the discourse and opinions and all that, on both sides. Just don't mess with the constitution by attempting to enact laws about flag burning or wearing the colors on my jacket or flying a flag at half-mast.

Disney's welcome to lower their flags. We're welcome not to lower ours. Seems like a pretty fair deal.

 

[Jey12]

So have we gotten to the point of burning books yet? I feel like we've skipped right over that.

 

[michsig]

I'm PRETTY sure it probably had something to do with Jobs involvement with the up and rising of Pixar. He is most likely being celebrated for his innovated thinking, not his money.
Which he deserves FULL recognition for. That man was a genius.

Well said!

 

[POOHsie]

I'm all for respecting and honoring the deceased. As I said, you want to lower Disney flags... great. However, there is a flag "guide / code" for a reason. Its out of respect for your country. Steve Jobs has done wonderful things... I own an iPod... la la la la. But that doesn't mean I think the American Flag should be lowered to honor him.

Um, and yes, to some people the American flag is an amazing power... where exactly do you think Francis Scott Key came up with our National Anthem? So yes, I compare this to flag burning, or wearing a bathing suit or t-shirt made out of the American Flag, or flying a flag that is tattered, torn, and faded... they are all equally egregious to me. Perhaps I am too much of a patriot.

Perhaps you have spent your life not noticing places that had their flag lowered for a short period of time. Happens everywhere, every day. Our country is not just a big place on the map, it's a collection of American people, who contribute to American life in good and decent ways over a lifetime. A rare few people stand out above the rest. Steve Jobs contributed much to Disney growth in the last 20 years, and the lowering of the American Flag on Disney private property acknowledges Jobs' importance to Disney and his influence on all of Disney's guests, who number in the millions upon millions.

Americans don't need to have their patriotism questioned. Take that codswallop to the nearest PUSH trashcan.

 

[jayandstacey]

Plus, Steve Jobs was a two-star general who served in 6 wars, he piloted the space shuttle to the moon and he was governor of two states (at the same time).

The fact that he owned Tomorrowland was just an "oh by the way..."

 

[larryz]

Regardless of which flags are and are not flown at half staff, Wall-E1 already quoted the government's stand on the Flag Code:

I do find it rather amusing that the one so adamant about how "against" the Flag Code it is has not returned to respond to Wall-E1's comment that quoted the government (who have no issue with it). So in my opinion, there's no more debate. The government is fine with it.

The cited report is a merely a government lawyer's opinion about the applicability of a section of US Code.

Since I'm not a lawyer, I'll defer to the statement in the report; "Again, the provisions of the Flag Code on flying the flag at half-staff are, like
all the Code’s provisions, a guide only. They do not apply, as a matter of law, to the display of the flag at half-staff by private individuals and organizations. No federal restrictions or court decisions are known that limit such an individual’s lowering his own flag or that make such display alone a form of desecration."

This is consistent with my previous post (#29) in which I conceded that Mr Iger (and by extension, anyone else) is free to order whatever actions he sees fit with regards to US flags on Disney property.

And I'll repeat that I admired Steve Jobs for his inventiveness, entrepreneurship and marketing genius. I just don't think dipping the US colors is an appropriate method of acknowledging that.

I was wrong -- I admit that. Now, if the dog pile will please get off, I'll get up and go read the Resorts board...

 

[mking624]

I'm all for respecting and honoring the deceased. As I said, you want to lower Disney flags... great. However, there is a flag "guide / code" for a reason. Its out of respect for your country. Steve Jobs has done wonderful things... I own an iPod... la la la la. But that doesn't mean I think the American Flag should be lowered to honor him.

Um, and yes, to some people the American flag is an amazing power... where exactly do you think Francis Scott Key came up with our National Anthem? So yes, I compare this to flag burning, or wearing a bathing suit or t-shirt made out of the American Flag, or flying a flag that is tattered, torn, and faded... they are all equally egregious to me. Perhaps I am too much of a patriot.

Oh and here we have it, the argument that one is more patriotic than another.

I respect my flag. But I don't worship it as my god. And I don't view the flag as having the powers of a god. There IS a difference. You don't have to like the fact that is IS lawful and within the Flag Code to fly the flag at half staff for someone. BUT respect the fact people ARE within the law and the government takes absolutely no issue with it. Only "more patriotic" people do, I suppose.

As far me saying "so much for honoring & respecting the deceased"...I meant it in regards to the fact that people can't even let go of their "how dare Disney!" arguments for just ONE THREAD. I mean really...someone died, Disney chose to honor the person, and all this has become is some ridiculous debate.

By the way, you never did answer about the flags being lowered for 9/11...

 

[sharadoc]

This thread is a microcosm of why this country will never be the same. Single issue arguments never propel us forward. A true democracy welcomes all opinions and the past 20 years in this country has gone in the total opposite direction.

Not trying to stir up a political discussion - trying to shut it down!

Steve Jobs was the greatest "thinker" of our generation. Historians thousands of years from now will point to his concepts as important as the invention of the wheel in terms of changing society and propelling technology leaps and bounds forward.

That's why it's in Spaceship Earth!!!