First Time Runners - No Proof of Time

[limabeanmom2003]

This 100%. I'm running my first full in October(this was not my choice but my medical team kept telling me no till now), possibly a month after a second half iron. I've done a half iron triathlon that is an ultra event it destroys you I slept 9 hours on the way home in the car the next day. I hurt like holey bejesus the next day and I have RA and let me tell you the half iron pushing for 70.3 miles up hills on a bike and foot, and swimming through current that crap beats you down.

Even with my experience I would not be ready to do Dopey this year, Goofy yes, Dopey no. I could even do Gasparilla next year which is roughly the same overall distance in 2 days but not dopey over 4 days. By day 4 on the marathon the constant doubling of mileage your legs will be filled with lactic acid you're going to be tired, your stores of glycogen depleted. Developing endurance can be trained in months but this type of endurance is gained over a lot longer. There is a reason for a taper before and a rest after a race particularly for beginners. There are tricks to fueling and recovering. A body that has been active longer doing these types of races recovers faster because its gained that ability over time. There is a reason elite sprinters are 20 and elite marathoners are 30 endurance is built over time, sprinting is all fast twitch.

I run, tri,and cycle with lots of people injuries arent a joke. Injuries happen and you deal with them. Everyone gets injured. This is the least of your worries though.

There are other factors you're not considering. Are you ready to face what is known as the wall? You cant train for that unless you experience it. The wall can destroy you in a race this type of race you're going to hit the wall. There is a huge joke in marathons that a marathon is nothing more than a 10k with a 20 mile warm up, the reason for this is the wall. The wall is when your stores are depleted and your body is done. Your training you will likely never run more than 22 miles before the marathon you thus only hit the end point not the push past. You will have to learn how to use the adrenaline to get past the wall this is why first marathons, centuries, and tris are hard. Ultras you have to learn to keep the wall at bay as long as possible then recover if it hits and keep pushing. Recovering when you hit the wall is extremely hard especially since you are still moving that type of thing is learned only through experience. Hyponutramia is also a huge risk. This is an extremely scary situation and can be deadly if you dont know what is going on. As some one who experiences this regularly due to issues with my digestive tract and a lot of medications its not fun and can be terrifying. This is when your salt levels are too low it causes disorientation, shaking, and loss of bowels. Do you know how to dose a salt tab? How many salt tabs will you need? How does temperature affect that? Dehydration another huge issue if you over salt or dont drink enough. Hypothermia, you can go hypothermic in 60 degrees and rain. Hell I almost went hypothermic last weekend I ran 7 miles in 49 degrees and rain came in and started shaking violently 10 minutes later because I wanted to eat ASAP rather than get out of my clothes and into the shower. Fiance had to send me to take a hot shower immediately. What about overheating? All of these things are huge issues with this type of race. You cant train for these or really prepare for them. You can read about them but they're all things you have to experience to understand.

Amen to this. I ran for 2 years before my first 1/2 marathon and another full year before my first full. I was well prepared for my first 1/2 but there is no way I would have been able to get up and run a full the next day. I never hit the wall in my full but what running 26.2 miles does to your body is nothing to take lightly.

 

[dewingedpixie]

Amen to this. I ran for 2 years before my first 1/2 marathon and another full year before my first full. I was well prepared for my first 1/2 but there is no way I would have been able to get up and run a full the next day. I never hit the wall in my full but what running 26.2 miles does to your body is nothing to take lightly.

I'm not too worried about the wall this fall. I have done equally grueling or more grueling events in my past. I'm more worried my joints might rile up and explode at mile 24 :/ I'll crawl the last 2.2 miles if I have to.

 

[buckeyecinderella]

I have really appreciated reading the posts on what it takes to prepare for and to run/run-walk/walk a marathon. I don't consider this negative at all, and frankly I am glad to hear the "other side" of things. All of the positive posts on this board have given me the confidence to train for and to run a marathon. However, I also had to be smart about it and listen to my body along the way.

After three years of running and 5 - 1/2 marathons, and numerous other five and 10ks, I finally ran the Disney Marathon. I finished successfully, and within the official time for the race, and without illness or injury, but it was still hard and if I had tried to go Goofy for my first marathon, I don't know if the finish would have been so good to me. Besides that, finishing successfully to me also meant being able to go out to dinner afterwards. enjoy the parks and the rest of my vacation!

When Disney first announced the Dopey challenge, I was so excited about it. But after long consideration, I decided I really would not be up to this challenge this year, if ever... That 3:30 AM wake up call four days in a row, as Coach mentioned in another post, was challenging enough. I felt as if the Dopey challenge would really beat up my body too much and just simply wear down my entire system. So I opted for a compromise. The 10K and the full marathon. I'm very happy with this choice!

 

[DOOM1001]

The 2013 Disney marathon was my first marathon,actually my first big race ever and I did great in it.I'm in pretty decent shape and with several training runs of 10-18 miles I knew I would get through it and I did do as good or better than expected.I gave thought to doing Goofy in 2014 but decided to wait for the anniversary in 2015.When they announced the Dopey I got pretty excited about giving this a try,but after a couple of days of thinking about it I knew I wouldn't be up for it,just getting up at 2-3am 4 days in a row alone would kick my butt,then you have the 48 miles of running on top of it,so no Dopey for me,I'll stick to the full marathon for 2014 and probably Goofy in 2015.I'm also doing the ToT 10 mile race and a half marathon in Miami Beach in October along with another half marathon 3 weeks after the Disney full.

 

[indygirl99]

hate to sound like a debbie downer since this board is supposed to be all about support....

dude, i don't think any of us was gunning for first place when we did our disney races. i certainly wasn't. but i'd been training for 2+ years for my marathon and when i signed up for it i had run the half distance multiple times. just because you aren't gunning for first place doesn't mean you can complete the race(s) without putting your body at risk.

i've completed a marathon, several half marathons and multiple 10ks and 5ks and i'm still not confident i can complete the dopey. my point is, i guess, is..get cracking! sign up for races. like, a decent amount of them. going from zero (3.5 miles isn't zero but it's not alot) to Dopey in less than a year is...well, dopey.

This 100%. And if the humidity is bad like it was this year . Sign up for multiple races in all kinds of weather.

 

[wilkeliza]

Best advice for this being your first time out make sure you have a dr monitoring you across your training.

Also don't let yourself be fooled by what your 3 mile pace is. When I trained for ToT my 3 mile training pace was 10 min/mil and my 6 mile training pace was at 13 min/mil. However web I got to race day I was doing the same thing but hit a wall at 6 miles and dropped all the way down to 18 min/miles at some points

I was well ahead. The sweepers and still averaged to a 15.30 min/mil so finished with an official finish time but it was brutal. Also I could hardly move 2 days later because of delay onset muscle soreness.

I can only caution you against the Doopey Challenge but if you have your heart set on it, find a training plan now, don't wait for the official plan, and have a dr who can help guide you. Also join a local running club so you have knowledgable support along the way.

Also don't let anyone fool you that the sweepers don't exist. They are there an at hard points on the course if the women with balloons pass you and you don't catch up to them before the hard point you will get taken off the course. However I believe for Food and Wine once you were off the public roads and in Epcot you were in a safe zone and I believe the marathon is the same way but I can't remember where the marathon ends.

You do run on roads that have to open to car traffic at some point so there are hard pick ups to ensure the roads open back up on time.

Best of luck.

 

[swimfly]

I'm going to be Debbie Downer. I think this is nuts. But use my skepticism as motivation as you see fit. I've run oodles of halfs, 5 marathons plus 2 Goofy challenges and training for the Dopey is going to be a challenge. As a former college athlete I'm pretty in tune with my body but distance running is a whole new ballgame. Training for the Dopey isn't only about safely getting in the miles but finding a balance between xtraining, nutrition, rest, and life. Galloway was mentioned. I trained with his program before he was the rundisney coach and he was pretty vocal about me not running the Goofy after already completing 3 marathons. Running since Dec and just hitting the 5k mark doesn't make sense.

And bc it's a pet peeve... an ultra marathon is 50+miles in one day. Dopey is not an ultra. Ultras are for the truly insane.

But you didn't ask for my opinion regarding whether or not to register Dopey. You asked about POT. You absolutely want to get some races in for experience before WDW. Your body will respond differently on race day. You need to know what to expect and learn a bit about how other runners behave during an event.

I do want to wish you safe training and joyful runs!

 

[heyitsmejosh]

i have a question to piggyback on this topic.. if you dont have a proof of time but you submit a time slightly over the time you need proof for do you get put in the last corral?

 

[SAHDad]

I'm going to be Debbie Downer. I think this is nuts. But use my skepticism as motivation as you see fit. I've run oodles of halfs, 5 marathons plus 2 Goofy challenges and training for the Dopey is going to be a challenge. As a former college athlete I'm pretty in tune with my body but distance running is a whole new ballgame. Training for the Dopey isn't only about safely getting in the miles but finding a balance between xtraining, nutrition, rest, and life. Galloway was mentioned. I trained with his program before he was the rundisney coach and he was pretty vocal about me not running the Goofy after already completing 3 marathons. Running since Dec and just hitting the 5k mark doesn't make sense.

And bc it's a pet peeve... an ultra marathon is 50+miles in one day. Dopey is not an ultra. Ultras are for the truly insane.

But you didn't ask for my opinion regarding whether or not to register Dopey. You asked about POT. You absolutely want to get some races in for experience before WDW. Your body will respond differently on race day. You need to know what to expect and learn a bit about how other runners behave during an event.

I do want to wish you safe training and joyful runs!

Quibble - an ultra is anything over 26.2 (plus the .1% overage factor, etc, etc.) A 50k race is an ultra (and I have heard it called a baby ultra, because it is, compared to the big ones). There are also timed ultras, but I think the shortest time is 6 hours, and many are 8, 12 or 24 hour events.

With a year of training, I would be apprehensive about completing it, just because it is a big ramp up, with a minimal base.

I signed up for the Dopey tonight, and have no worry that I can compete it. (But then again, I did the Goofy at the beginning of the year, and ran 3 miles or so each of the two days previous - so it's not much extra mileage, just another morning or two of early wake-up calls.)

 

[swimfly]

I think you're going to see some disagreement on the use of the term ultra. Anything less than 50 miles is considered marathon plus. I actually misused the term until I was "set straight" by endurance junkies. Although I did google and see where it's defined as more than 26.2 and then notes the disagreement.

Ditto the early wake up for 4 days will be the toughest part!

 

[SAHDad]

I think you're going to see some disagreement on the use of the term ultra. Anything less than 50 miles is considered marathon plus. I actually misused the term until I was "set straight" by endurance junkies. Although I did google and see where it's defined as more than 26.2 and then notes the disagreement.

Ditto the early wake up for 4 days will be the toughest part!

Yeah, I heard someone say something along that line (that a 50k wasn't a "real" ultra) at my first, and they got roundly slammed by the other ultrasrunners. I'll readily concede that a 50k is more of an intro ultra than the longer ones, but anyway. . .

I'm thinking that my training for the Dopey is actually going to involve a timed ultra. It won't help with the wake-up calls, but it will help with time on my feet.

 

[FFigawi]

I think you're going to see some disagreement on the use of the term ultra. Anything less than 50 miles is considered marathon plus. I actually misused the term until I was "set straight" by endurance junkies. Although I did google and see where it's defined as more than 26.2 and then notes the disagreement.

Speaking as someone who has done races from 50k to 50 miles, an ultra is anything longer than a marathon. I ran this race last weekend and I challenge anyone to tell me that's not an ultra.

 

[SAHDad]

Speaking as someone who has done races from 50k to 50 miles, an ultra is anything longer than a marathon. I ran this race last weekend and I challenge anyone to tell me that's not an ultra.

That looks fun. Which one was it?

 

[ironz]

I think you're going to see some disagreement on the use of the term ultra. Anything less than 50 miles is considered marathon plus. I actually misused the term until I was "set straight" by endurance junkies. Although I did google and see where it's defined as more than 26.2 and then notes the disagreement.

Ditto the early wake up for 4 days will be the toughest part!

quibbling about terms aside (and I like to think of Goofy/Dopey as a 'broken ultra'--really more of a stage run)...
what the OP is proposing scares me for him and his wife. I've been running 14 years and, while I'm not fast, I have plenty of experience, with 8 Ironmans, 15 half Ironmans, 5 stand alone marathons, and at least 12 stand alone half marathons. (includes 2 completed Goofys)

It is easy enough to get an overuse injury training for a marathon, much less training for your first long distance race to be 48 miles over 4 days. Goofy is hard enough as it is....and even with experience, I was injured going into 2 of my 3 attempts (finished 1 injured, DNF'd one due to injury, and finished another without injury, but very slowly).
The risk of injury during training or during race weekend is going to be very high for this couple (it's high enough for any runner, but I think more so for newbies). I hope it doesn't go this way for these two--they're very excited, it seems! but I would not be surprised to see posts about injury sometime along the way between later this summer/fall and race time.
Caution advised. Good luck!

P.S. I'd be interested what Coach Charles thinks of this.

 

[missmary]

To the OP, just wanted to give you my experience. I started running in Feb. 2012. I had never run further than my car into Target during a rain storm until then. I had moved across the world and needed something to keep me busy and decided running would work. In March, I convinced a running friend of mine in America to do the Goofy Challenge this January. We started really training in July with Galloway's Goofy program and added Crossfit/cross training on our off days. She had done various 5ks and a mini tri. I had never done a formal race ever. We both entered the Goofy and the Disney family 5k. We had no intention of being fast, we just wanted to finish. We submitted no times because we had none. We started in the last corral with all the walkers.

We were fine in the 5k slow with our families. In the half marathon, we got frustrated bobbing and weaving around the walkers. So, in the full marathon, we got to the first row of the last corral and quickly caught up with corral in front of us and even the slower runners of the corral in front of them.

I flew in from Africa and was dealing with jet lag on top of everything else. Plus we had our families with small children so we were doing theme parks nearly every day we raced. We were tired, but we did just fine. Yes, I hit a wall in mile 23 of the marathon (mostly because of the brutal heat and the fact that the food stops had run out of food for us last corral people ) but we just walked those last 3 miles and still finished an hour ahead of the last finishers.

Sure it was slow and exhausting, but it was totally worth it. My friend's ankle ached the next week or so; my knee ached for a few days, but we had no serious injuries. We had so much fun we are now signing up for the Dopey challenge. In Feb. of this year, I ran a half marathon in 2:20. My friend is doing a half in May. This year we will submit times and get out of that walker corral. But, know that you can do it. Be a tortoise. Go slow and steady. Don't hurt yourself doing too much.

 

[dewingedpixie]

And bc it's a pet peeve... an ultra marathon is 50+miles in one day. Dopey is not an ultra. Ultras are for the truly insane.

Anything over 26.2 is defined as an ultra. Anything over an Olympic tri is an ultra. Anything over 120 miles is an ultra. Have you done an ultra? Ultra can occur over 1 day or multiple in succession as a stacked event. Personally I'd love to do badwater but it aint going to happen. I do however want to try for a full iron at some point if I can con my medical staff into it.

 

[Duanerice]

More power to ya. As others have said, just don't risk injury. Take it easy and get a plan.

The reason I say that is coming from a non-running background and yes, 3 mi is basically a non-running background when it comes to the Dopey, that is a lot of mileage to pile on in 9 months (which includes taper time). If you go by the 10% rule it would take 60 weeks to get to 20 mi long run. I know we can bump the early mileage up a bit faster but you will still be pushing it to get to the 20 mi run by November without getting hurt.

But, I think you can do it if you are smart. Go slow and follow a plan. Being fit has little to do with the pounding your legs, feet and ankles will have to take. All this assumes you are not racing but pretty much jogging the whole way.

Go get a race or two in. If you are going to run a 12 or 11 mi pace you do not want to be in the back. Not just for you but for the others that are in the right place. It is just as much a pain to pass people as being passed. Get a race in so you can get into the proper corral. It's the right thing to do.

For my first Goofy I trained my butt off. Did the 5k on Friday, OK. The half on Sat, OK. Then in the full on Sun I was feeling good up to mi 14. IT band froze up and I had to walk/limp the rest of the way home. I finished in about 5:40 but it was not fun. I didn't have any issues in training so this came out of the blue and I had been running a lot. Next year was fine, had a great 5k, half and full. Bunch of 70.3 triathlons a 2 full Ironman races later and the issues not come up. You never know.

I haven't raced Disney since 2010 but will be back in 2014 for just the full. Contemplated the Dopey but it was the getting up for 4 days that I didn't like, not the mileage That will be brutal. That would take all the fun out of the races for me.

Have fun and train smart.
Duane

 

[sunshine girl]

Just a thought, I note you mentioned your training plans are based off the Galloway plans. I also want to put in a recommendation for the Galloway run-walk method.

I used it this year for my marathon (in training and in the race) and it was significantly easier on my body than any of my previous marathons, in which I ran the entire race. I enjoyed this marathon so much more, and I credit the run-walk method. I even hit the parks afterward until closing time, no nap or limping required!

 

[FFigawi]

That looks fun. Which one was it?

Two Oceans in Cape Town. Incredible scenery, brutal weather, amazing experience.

 

[ZellyB]

Just a thought, I note you mentioned your training plans are based off the Galloway plans. I also want to put in a recommendation for the Galloway run-walk method.

I used it this year for my marathon (in training and in the race) and it was significantly easier on my body than any of my previous marathons, in which I ran the entire race. I enjoyed this marathon so much more, and I credit the run-walk method. I even hit the parks afterward until closing time, no nap or limping required!

I agree. Not that I had ever run a long distance race since I've only done the Galloway method, but my DH has and he has raved about how much easier it has been on his body. We also went back out after the marathon to Epcot and walked the park and felt reasonably good.

I started training in April of last year doing Galloway. I ran my first half-marathon in a local race in November and then did the marathon in January of this year. So, to the OP, I think it's doable for you, but you will definitely need to be faithful to the training regimen. And I would second all those that recommend you fit in a race or two. It helped me alot having done the half marathon before running the full at Disney.

We are planning to do Goofy in 2015, but not yet talking about Dopey. Good luck to you.