Financial disaster

[Justthe8ofus]

Now seriously....at this point do you honestly believe she does not know where this is headed? These "friends" know exactly what they are doing and playing the system to their full benefit. As I read back over your personal postings on this, I think a light is starting to go off and you're realizing this needs to come to an end. A very special family member, long since passed, had a saying that we often repeated to our children and still use even today......"Show me who your friend are and I'll tell you who you are". Do you want this to be how people view you as well? Cut the ties and distance yourself from this trainwreck now and don't look back.

sounds like an old neighbor of mine. This was a way of life for them. Buy buy buy then just file. The did this 3xs that I know of. They just filed like 3 yrs ago and were foreclosed on- now they own 2 houses again!! Sometimes it makes DH and I wonder why we pay our bills.

 

[aka-mad4themouse]

I'm not urprised that she has all the unsecured debt. My best friend is a stay at home mom who has not worked outside the home for $$ for about 12 years now. Her husband has avery good job and it works well for their family. They just bought her a brand new Toyota Sienna minivan. It is in HER name. It was almost $40,000. She has no income. Crazy!

Don't misunderstand. They can afford it and will pay for the loan. I was just amazed that they would give it to her exclusively in her name with no income!

I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand. You stated that husband makes good money and they can afford the van. What am I missing? IMO it sounds like you are just a little jealous of your friend. I am a SAHM and I have a truck and a car in my name. I think your ideas about SAHMs and single income households are a little out of date.

I think that the point MKCP5 was trying to make is that it is possible for a SAHM with no apparent income to obtain credit on her own. I'm also a SAHM but I didn't read her post as judging us.

 

[MrsPete]

Believe me, even for people that file bankruptcy, the majority of them realize who ends up paying for their mistakes.

Well, then they don't care how their actions affect other people. Nice.

Regardless if you're sympathetic or not, people that make mistakes and get over their heads CAN and will continue to file for bankruptcy. It's not illegal. If you and others choose to judge, so be it. At the end of the day, even people that make mistakes can file bankruptcy and end up discharging thousands of dollars of debt. That's just the way it is.

Sure they can, but is it right?

I think the majority of people get so in over their heads and to protect their homes/cars they end up filing. For some people, they just don't have a choice once their debt snowballs.

Sure they had a choice: They made a choice to buy things they couldn't afford. Why should a person who repeatedly does this, then looks to others to bail them out have the option of protecting their homes/cars? After all, they're taking money out of my pocket, which should have gone to MY home and MY car. Wait, you already answered -- they don't care about how others are affected.

 

[MrsPete]

I think BOTH parties should be responsible for their own actions - the people who take out credit, buy things they can't afford, and declare bankruptcy - AND the credit card companies who charge usurious interest rates to people who are high risk - and to those of us that are low risk to make up for the defaults. When credit card companies make the stupid decision to loan to these people, they should take on some of the burden for their own decision.

Capping credit card interest rates and fees - so that credit card companies cannot pass the cost on to the rest of us, would help.

Absolutely the credit card companies bear some responsibility -- after all, they're providing temptation. They are certainly not innocent in these situations; however, that doesn't excuse individuals from their responsibility to make good decisions for themselves.

 

[MrsPete]

I think that the point MKCP5 was trying to make is that it is possible for a SAHM with no apparent income to obtain credit on her own. I'm also a SAHM but I didn't read her post as judging us.

It's not only possible for a SAHM to get credit, it's wise. No adult should be totally without the ability to prove herself credit-worthy; however, that's not really the point. No one -- SAHM with no paycheck or company CEO who earns millions a year -- has any business spending money they cannot pay back.

 

[crisi]

Absolutely the credit card companies bear some responsibility -- after all, they're providing temptation. They are certainly not innocent in these situations; however, that doesn't excuse individuals from their responsibility to make good decisions for themselves.

Agreed, but the way we have it structured, credit card companies can make stupid decisions and still rake in record profits. If you or I were to loan money to someone who'd declared bankruptcy twice, didn't hold a job, and was already in debt - then came on here to complain about not getting repaid, I think we both know that - while people would feel for us - we'd get told we'd been stupid to start with and shouldn't loan money where there was little chance of getting it paid back.

 

[Kellydelly]

I don't see how this has anything to do with the topic at hand. You stated that husband makes good money and they can afford the van. What am I missing? IMO it sounds like you are just a little jealous of your friend. I am a SAHM and I have a truck and a car in my name. I think your ideas about SAHMs and single income households are a little out of date.

The point is the woman was able to secure a high dollar loan in her name, with no income. It has everything to do with the topic! It's just a difference of having your husband pay the montly payments or not. The OP's friend is racking up her own debt and her husband isn't writing checks to cover it.

 

[MrsPete]

Agreed, but the way we have it structured, credit card companies can make stupid decisions and still rake in record profits. If you or I were to loan money to someone who'd declared bankruptcy twice, didn't hold a job, and was already in debt - then came on here to complain about not getting repaid, I think we both know that - while people would feel for us - we'd get told we'd been stupid to start with and shouldn't loan money where there was little chance of getting it paid back.

I do agree that there's a huge problem there: An individual who overspends is going to have to have trouble (whether that is paying it back or declaring bankruptcy). A credit card company wiggles out of it. And who's the big loser in the whole scenerio? The honest person who spent within his own limits; after all, that person now pays higher prices at the store to cover the non-paying customer AND pays higher taxes because the credit card company is getting a write-off.

 

[jamstew]

Sooo, my hard earned portfolio and 401(k) is in the toilet, but at least people like your friend are getting the vacations and pools they so deserve.

Yep, that's the end result for many of us

 

[Fritochips4u]

Well, then they don't care how their actions affect other people. Nice. Sure they can, but is it right? Sure they had a choice: They made a choice to buy things they couldn't afford. Why should a person who repeatedly does this, then looks to others to bail them out have the option of protecting their homes/cars? After all, they're taking money out of my pocket, which should have gone to MY home and MY car. Wait, you already answered -- they don't care about how others are affected.

Who doesn't care how their actions affect other people? People that filed for bankruptcy? Take it from someone who HAS filed bankruptcy, we DO care. You think someone on the verge of bankruptcy walks into their lawyers office and stands proud? You think they aren't humiliated and humbled to be sitting in a lawyers office, broke?

Is it right to charge things and get over your head? No, it's called a mistake. People, human beings, make mistakes. People charge what they can't afford and bankruptcy laws are in place to help people start over with a clean slate.

Is it right that people get unemployment, welfare, WIC? Why can't they just "get up and get a job"? Why should I have to bail them out because they won't get a job? Same mentality (quit looking for a handout)

People that file bankruptcy have the option to protect their home and cars because it's the law. Filing bankruptcy doesn't leave one destitute. Someone can exempt their home and vehicles from being taken away when filing. That's just the way it is.

Whenever I see someone who gets so upset with how "immoral" the bankruptcy laws are today, I encourage them to write their congressmen. Griping about how "unfair", "immoral", "irresponsible" people are when filing for bankruptcy doesn't *change* anything. Take a proactive approach, if bankruptcy bothers you so much. If you don't want to pay for others' mistakes, do something about it to change it.

 

[Fritochips4u]

I do agree that there's a huge problem there: An individual who overspends is going to have to have trouble (whether that is paying it back or declaring bankruptcy). A credit card company wiggles out of it. And who's the big loser in the whole scenerio? The honest person who spent within his own limits; after all, that person now pays higher prices at the store to cover the non-paying customer AND pays higher taxes because the credit card company is getting a write-off.

Just because someone files for bankruptcy doesn't mean the stores that they made their purchases from doesn't get their money. If I have a Discover card and charge something at Target, Target still gets their money from Discover for the purchases I made. At the end of the day, it's Discover who lost money, not Target.

 

[bdcp]

Just because someone files for bankruptcy doesn't mean the stores that they made their purchases from doesn't get their money. If I have a Discover card and charge something at Target, Target still gets their money from Discover for the purchases I made. At the end of the day, it's Discover who lost money, not Target.

Wow! That statement coming from someone who had filed bankruptcy in the past just reinforces the belief most of us have that we're tired of bailing irresponsible people out. We still all pay for it in higher fees and interest rates as well as higher prices in stores. There is a percentage built into the sales price of items in stores to cover for theft. And, buying things on a cc with no intention of paying, is theft. Don't think this only hurts "stores or cc companies". Just as taxing oil companies won't hurt them or fix what some perceive as unfair profits. It won't. The costs ALWAYS get passed onto the consumers. It has to in order for companies to stay in business. It's pure ignorance to think we're not paying for those that don't pay.

I'm sorry, but bankruptcy for a certain percentage of people is purely a way to never pay for anything. Even if it's only 10% of all bankruptcies, it does hurt everyone else who does pay their bills. There are just too many fricking victims. People need to grow up and accept their responsibilities, even if it means no vacations, swimming pools, cell phones, cable tv, etc. The fact is of the few people I know that have declared bankruptcy, most did it because they spent too much, period. It wasn't about medical bills, it was about the new car every two years and vacations and clothes.

 

[Princess April]

Who doesn't care how their actions affect other people? People that filed for bankruptcy? Take it from someone who HAS filed bankruptcy, we DO care. You think someone on the verge of bankruptcy walks into their lawyers office and stands proud? You think they aren't humiliated and humbled to be sitting in a lawyers office, broke?

Is it right to charge things and get over your head? No, it's called a mistake. People, human beings, make mistakes. People charge what they can't afford and bankruptcy laws are in place to help people start over with a clean slate.

Is it right that people get unemployment, welfare, WIC? Why can't they just "get up and get a job"? Why should I have to bail them out because they won't get a job? Same mentality (quit looking for a handout)

People that file bankruptcy have the option to protect their home and cars because it's the law. Filing bankruptcy doesn't leave one destitute. Someone can exempt their home and vehicles from being taken away when filing. That's just the way it is.

Whenever I see someone who gets so upset with how "immoral" the bankruptcy laws are today, I encourage them to write their congressmen. Griping about how "unfair", "immoral", "irresponsible" people are when filing for bankruptcy doesn't *change* anything. Take a proactive approach, if bankruptcy bothers you so much. If you don't want to pay for others' mistakes, do something about it to change it.

... this should be interesting.

 

[robsmom]

Regardless if you're sympathetic or not, people that make mistakes and get over their heads CAN and will continue to file for bankruptcy. It's not illegal. If you and others choose to judge, so be it. .

Just because something is legal, does not make it right.

audultery is legal
smoking is legal
being disrespectful to others is legal.

All of these are legal and yet people can and do choose to judge. I choose to believe that bankruptcy is morally wrong unless it is the result of a genuine crisis/emergency.

 

[Princess April]

Just because something is legal, does not make it right.

audultery is legal
smoking is legal
being disrespectful to others is legal.

All of these are legal and yet people can and do choose to judge. I choose to believe that bankruptcy is morally wrong unless it is the result of a genuine crisis/emergency.

KUDOS!!!!!

 

[jamstew]

Believe me, even for people that file bankruptcy, the majority of them realize who ends up paying for their mistakes.

Regardless if you're sympathetic or not, people that make mistakes and get over their heads CAN and will continue to file for bankruptcy. It's not illegal. If you and others choose to judge, so be it. At the end of the day, even people that make mistakes can file bankruptcy and end up discharging thousands of dollars of debt.

I can certainly understand people filing bankruptcy once when they get in over their heads because of mistakes, poor judgment, stupidity, or whatever you want to call it. If they get in the same situation again (except for legitimate medical, business, etc., reasons), it's not a mistake; it's a choice.

 

[MrsPete]

Just because someone files for bankruptcy doesn't mean the stores that they made their purchases from doesn't get their money. If I have a Discover card and charge something at Target, Target still gets their money from Discover for the purchases I made. At the end of the day, it's Discover who lost money, not Target.

So it's okay to stiff Discover but not Target?
What if it's a Target or a Sears card?
You're trying to justify the idea of living beyond your means, then excusing it away as a mistake -- that's a tough sell.

I can certainly understand people filing bankruptcy once when they get in over their heads because of mistakes, poor judgment, stupidity, or whatever you want to call it. If they get in the same situation again (except for legitimate medical, business, etc., reasons), it's not a mistake; it's a choice.

The very point I would've made.

 

[richmond282]

Wow! This is a heated discussion! I'm not going to get in the middle of it.

All I have to say is... I don't have a pool because I can't afford one. I don't drive a BMW because I can't afford one. I don't live in a mansion because I can't afford it. I don't wear designer clothes because (you guessed it!) I can't afford it.

My husband and I try our best to live within our means. We have almost eliminated all of our debt other than our mortgage. We saved for a year to pay for our Disney trip in July. And, yes, we paid for it out of pocket.

Hopefully these are financial decisions our DD will see and eventually imitate!