Favreau Enters Negotiations for Lucasfilm President

[Ponderer]

Star Wars is always going to make money. Hiring a competent writer/director was going to make sure the box office brought it cash.

Ron Howard and Lawrence Kasdan weren't competent directors and writers?

 

[YesterDark]

Disney benefitted from the MCU already having a roadmap when they acquired Marvel Studios. They were able to recoup their spending quickly while also following an already laid out plan. They didnt have the same situation with Star Wars. There was nothing to work off of. It was Disney telling them, make these movies now so we can make our money back and then we’ll figure out other IP related projects later on. That is not Kennedy’s problem. She did what her bosses and superiors told her to do

Disney owned a giant library of comics and books that offered decades of SW timeline to chose from. It's not like the SW universe was always just 6 movies and a cartoon series. There were hundreds of comics and books to chose from. Some of them actually good.

I mean, if I had $4B and purchased Lucasfilm and just greenlit the Thrawn trilogy with some really good writers and directors it probably would have been more successful.

Hell, if I ignored the "Skywalker Saga" and just greenlit KOTOR it would have been probably received really well among the hardcore and casual fans.

Lots of stuff to work with in the Star Wars Universe. Nonsense to say there was nothing to work off of. Heck Lucas had the movies outlined in some fashion as well.

 

[YesterDark]

Ron Howard and Lawrence Kasdan weren't competent directors and writers?

Who said they weren't?

 

[BrianL]

For the original trilogy, ESB did 80% of what ANH did, and ROTJ did 74% of ANH

By comparison TLJ did 64% of TFA and TRoS did 52% of TFA. That is much more of a drop than just the "nature of things" when it comes to sequels.

Also very often when it comes to popular movie series they will have big $ for the first film, lesser for the middle film(s) and a big boost for the finales as people get excited to see how things wrap up. The prequels did $924m, $645m, and $868 respectively. Similar results for Indiana Jones, Harry Potter etc. Or for LOTR each movie increased $ as it went along. A finale of a trilogy, and in this case a saga that spans many generations, albeit being profitable, to do as poorly as it did in context to what this series is has to be heavily concerning.

As for your second part, I simply would have preferred that they had a coherent start to finish story and not "make it up as you go along" from movie to movie constantly changing course/direction. It might have been bad if their start to finish story was crap, or it might have been good. We won't know but I suspect it would have been received much better since it would have flowed more coherently from film to film.

I disagree. Other than fan wishful thinking there is no indication that these numbers are a disappointment (outside of Solo). They all made over a BILLION dollars - Billion - few movies even do that.

George made it up as he went along - seemed okay to me.

 

[Ponderer]

Who said they weren't?

Well, Solo was a box-office bust, so the implication of what you said was that they weren't competent.

 

[BrianL]

Disney owned a giant library of comics and books that offered decades of SW timeline to chose from. It's not like the SW universe was always just 6 movies and a cartoon series. There were hundreds of comics and books to chose from. Some of them actually good.

I mean, if I had $4B and purchased Lucasfilm and just greenlit the Thrawn trilogy with some really good writers and directors it probably would have been more successful.

Hell, if I ignored the "Skywalker Saga" and just greenlit KOTOR it would have been probably received really well among the hardcore and casual fans.

Lots of stuff to work with in the Star Wars Universe. Nonsense to say there was nothing to work off of. Heck Lucas had the movies outlined in some fashion as well.

I think he meant that the MCU was already going when Disney bought it. The movies had their formula settled (Avengers was already made). With Star Wars they were starting fresh with a series that hadn't had a movie in over a decade. I don't think any of those EU comics would have done necessarily better or worse anyway - most people don't care about The Thrawn Trilogy or even know what it is.

 

[YesterDark]

No indication? heh

 

[YesterDark]

Well, Solo was a box-office bust, so the implications of what you said was that they weren't competent.

I would refresh yourself on the production of Solo and how much of a disaster it was. Howard came in to finish it up and the original directors were basically ripping up the script.

 

[BrianL]

No indication? heh

I mean in that Disney wants to fire Kennedy or reboot the Sequels from canon or even pull the Rian Johnson trilogy. All of that is just the wishful thinking of the very vocal fans. We heard the same nonsense with the prequels - "George Lucas should step aside - he's lost his way!" Now he would suddenly be a savior of it all and would crush the evil Kathleen and erase all of her work from our collective memories. Does that include The Mandalorian?

 

[Ponderer]

I would refresh yourself on the production of Solo and how much of a disaster it was. Howard came in to finish it up and the original directors were basically ripping up the script.

I'm very aware of the production of Solo. I'm very confused about who you feel were the incompetent writers and directors. I'm not trying to be pedantic, but you said that competent ones ensured that a Star Wars film would make money.

(Though hilariously, if we wanna get down to that standard, the least successful Star Wars film director of all time was Dave Filoni, whose Clone Wars film topped out at 68 million and was the worst reviewed Star Wars film in history.)

 

[TommyJK]

I disagree. Other than fan wishful thinking there is no indication that these numbers are a disappointment (outside of Solo). They all made over a BILLION dollars - Billion - few movies even do that.

George made it up as he went along - seemed okay to me.

When TFA does over 2 Billion and TRoS only does 1/2 of that, and seeing how other evergreen movie franchises do, Disney easily left over a billion dollars on the table of potentially lost revenue.

And with of the reports/rumors etc. of a planned "Lucas" cut for TRoS, Kennedy being replaced/not renewing her contract, scrapping or putting other plans on hold to retool things sound like internal disappointment to me.

As for George, where do you get that he made things up as he went along? The entire original trilogy was written as one major saga and then broken up into separate films. Sure he may have adjusted and tweaked some details along the way, but he had a start to finish vision from the beginning. I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise for how he did the prequels either. But in the end there was one story teller at the helm who both came up with the story and executed it start to finish.

To read Colin Trevorrow's accounts on just how insanely convoluted the production of TRoS was and it makes me sad with how badly Disney has messed up Star Wars from a management/direction perspective.

 

[BrianL]

When TFA does over 2 Billion and TRoS only does 1/2 of that, and seeing how other evergreen movie franchises do, Disney easily left over a billion dollars on the table of potentially lost revenue.

And with of the reports/rumors etc. of a planned "Lucas" cut for TRoS, Kennedy being replaced/not renewing her contract, scrapping or putting other plans on hold to retool things sound like internal disappointment to me.

As for George, where do you get that he made things up as he went along? The entire original trilogy was written as one major saga and then broken up into separate films. Sure he may have adjusted and tweaked some details along the way, but he had a start to finish vision from the beginning. I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise for how he did the prequels either. But in the end there was one story teller at the helm who both came up with the story and executed it start to finish.

To read Colin Trevorrow's accounts on just how insanely convoluted the production of TRoS was and it makes me sad with how badly Disney has messed up Star Wars from a management/direction perspective.

I don't disagree that there was a fall-off, it's the insistence that "Well, if htey had donit it THIS way (i.e. "my way") it would've done WAY better!" There's no way to know that. If they had planned it and still used the plot of TLJ, fans would STILL be mad. Honestly, we don't even know that they didn't plan it - people just say that becuase it's an easy knock. They probably did it the same as George, with a general idea and changes along the way. With the OT, Luke and Leia kiss - would they have if Lucas already knew they were siblings? I doubt it! A second Death Star? Yeah, that was added to try to recapture the magic fo the first one. That stuff's no big deal to me, but it's the same stuff that many fans blame the Sequels for doing.

And all those "reports" are just click-bait rumors started by the disgruntled fans. There is no credibility to them.

 

[AvidDisReader]

So all this debate on Kennedy, at this point who cares. Isn't anyone excited that a true creative talent like Favreau is taking over??? As stated above, there are so many directions they can take this. It is a whole Universe far far away, with a true creative talent in charge, how can any true Star Wars fan not be exited.

 

[Ponderer]

As for George, where do you get that he made things up as he went along? The entire original trilogy was written as one major saga and then broken up into separate films. Sure he may have adjusted and tweaked some details along the way, but he had a start to finish vision from the beginning. I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise for how he did the prequels either. But in the end there was one story teller at the helm who both came up with the story and executed it start to finish.

Of course he made it up. Gary Kurtz even called the original drafts gobbledygook. Splinter of the Mind's Eye was designed as the escape hatch sequel to Star Wars in case it underperformed, and it had no tie to any major saga story elements. Leigh Brackett's first draft of Empire bears only the slightest resemblance to the final film. Darth Vader was certainly not Luke's father, and that's literally the soul of Empire and Jedi. Gary Kurtz was wildly against the second Death Star and said it came out of nowhere, that Jedi was supposed to be bittersweet, ending with the Rebels in tatters and Luke walking off into the sunset. Whatever master plan Lucas had, he tossed it out the window.

 

[TommyJK]

And all those "reports" are just click-bait rumors started by the disgruntled fans. There is no credibility to them.

Have you read any of Colin Trevorrow's (original script writer and original director for TRoS) account of things or the details of the script he wrote and was set to direct? That's not "click-bait rumors". His script is unrecognizable from an overall story standpoint than what we got and just shows how the powers that be didn't have a coherent start to finish story arc. And there are so many other stories out there about internal strife on story decision/indecision that for me, when there's smoke there's fire.

So all this debate on Kennedy, at this point who cares. Isn't anyone excited that a true creative talent like Favreau is taking over??? As stated above, there are so many directions they can take this. It is a whole Universe far far away, with a true creative talent in charge, how can any true Star Wars fan not be exited.

This indeed. If true then it gives me much more confidence for the future of the franchise.

 

[WDW Pro]

For the original trilogy, ESB did 80% of what ANH did, and ROTJ did 74% of ANH

By comparison TLJ did 64% of TFA and TRoS did 52% of TFA. That is much more of a drop than just the "nature of things" when it comes to sequels.

Also very often when it comes to popular movie series they will have big $ for the first film, lesser for the middle film(s) and a big boost for the finales as people get excited to see how things wrap up. The prequels did $924m, $645m, and $868 respectively. Similar results for Indiana Jones, Harry Potter etc. Or for LOTR each movie increased $ as it went along. A finale of a trilogy, and in this case a saga that spans many generations, albeit being profitable, to do as poorly as it did in context to what this series is has to be heavily concerning.

As for your second part, I simply would have preferred that they had a coherent start to finish story and not "make it up as you go along" from movie to movie constantly changing course/direction. It might have been bad if their start to finish story was crap, or it might have been good. We won't know but I suspect it would have been received much better since it would have flowed more coherently from film to film.

It's also a fallacy of ecology. A New Hope was in theaters at a time when there were no multiplex in existence... most theaters had 1-4 screens. ANH stayed in theaters for many months, at a time when it was on between 25-50% of total screens. ESB on the other hand was only in theaters for a normal run as part of a different strategy Lucas was interesting in trying.

 

[TommyJK]

Of course he made it up. Gary Kurtz even called the original drafts gobbledygook. Splinter of the Mind's Eye was designed as the escape hatch sequel to Star Wars in case it underperformed, and it had no tie to any major saga story elements. Leigh Brackett's first draft of Empire bears only the slightest resemblance to the final film. Darth Vader was certainly not Luke's father, and that's literally the soul of Empire and Jedi. Gary Kurtz was wildly against the second Death Star and said it came out of nowhere, that Jedi was supposed to be bittersweet, ending with the Rebels in tatters and Luke walking off into the sunset. Whatever master plan Lucas had, he tossed it out the window.

Yes and no. While yes Empire's first draft was very different, there was still "another" Skywalker, it just wasn't Leia. It was another sister named Nellith. While the original ROTJ wasn't to have the final battle about a second Death Star, it was to be on the Empire home world of Had Abbadon (which happened to have 2 Death Stars orbiting it). There was still a final showdown in a throne room between Luke and Vader in front of the Emperor. But the overall arc's of what we got still "resembled" much of his original vision.

 

[BrianL]

Have you read any of Colin Trevorrow's (original script writer and original director for TRoS) account of things or the details of the script he wrote and was set to direct? That's not "click-bait rumors". His script is unrecognizable from an overall story standpoint than what we got and just shows how the powers that be didn't have a coherent start to finish story arc. And there are so many other stories out there about internal strife on story decision/indecision that for me, when there's smoke there's fire.

I'm not talking about Colin's script that was never used, I'm talking about all of the reports that Filoni/Favreau have some kind of fued with Kennedy and that Disnye wants her out, etc. Look, obviously there has been some shuffling when it came to directors. There were aparently behavior issues that led to some of the dismissals, and, of course, the usual "creative differences." That's happened at Marvel too. The fact is when you come into do these franchise pictures, you don't get to put your exact vision on the screen, you have to tow the company line. Some guys can do that, and others can't. Mistakes were made, and then they were corrected. People only make a big deal about it because they want to blame Kathleen Kennedy for everything.

 

[Ponderer]

Yes and no. While yes Empire's first draft was very different, there was still "another" Skywalker, it just wasn't Leia. It was another sister named Nellith. While the original ROTJ wasn't to have the final battle about a second Death Star, it was to be on the Empire home world of Had Abbadon (which happened to have 2 Death Stars orbiting it). There was still a final showdown in a throne room between Luke and Vader in front of the Emperor. But the overall arc's of what we got still "resembled" much of his original vision.

Where is this original vision? I’ve heard the stories told about how there was this massive draft with a plan for the entire original trilogy, but no one has ever seen anything like that. Just a 2 page starter concept, a 12 page outline, an incomprehensible rough draft and a slightly less so first draft. And none of those concepts have anything to do with what showed up in Empire or Jedi.

(Interestingly, they DO show up in the prequels, if in massively different contexts.)

 

[TommyJK]

I'm not talking about Colin's script that was never used, I'm talking about all of the reports that Filoni/Favreau have some kind of fued with Kennedy and that Disnye wants her out, etc. Look, obviously there has been some shuffling when it came to directors. There were aparently behavior issues that led to some of the dismissals, and, of course, the usual "creative differences." That's happened at Marvel too. The fact is when you come into do these franchise pictures, you don't get to put your exact vision on the screen, you have to tow the company line. Some guys can do that, and others can't. Mistakes were made, and then they were corrected. People only make a big deal about it because they want to blame Kathleen Kennedy for everything.

I'm not into the minutiae of what may or may not be going on behind the scenes. I don't know if there is an internal feud between Kennedy and Filoni/Favreau and to me it doesn't really matter.

Ultimately I want someone at the helm that has a vision and sticks with it rather than doing 180's from film to film. I use Colin's script and departure as an example of an obvious lack overall vision/plan based on how different it is from the story we got. The story even at a high level is so vastly differently than what was made it shows me that someone is constantly second guessing what they're doing. Kennedy is at the helm of Lucasfilm so she get the blame ultimately. Now it's entirely possible that those above her may have got their fingers in the pie making things even more difficult. Dunno.

Either way, I myself have been overall disappointed with the sequel trilogy. I thought the acting was great (near the top of any Star Wars movies), actions sequences were awesome, but the overall story was just so disjointed from movie to movie that it made it highly incoherent. And based on heavily diminishing box office totals I don't feel that I'm alone.