FASTPASS Return Times to Be Enforced Beginning March 7

[Peter Pirate 2]

I don't have a problem with Disney enforcing the return time since it is their system. They do the studies to find what works. I would like something in return as a guest. If I show up in the park at 10 or 11 AM on a busy day don't give me a fast pass for Soarin at 9:45 PM and then tell me I have to use it within 1 hour of the time posted.

If they expect to get better control of wait times and fast pass returns they should be able to tweek the times to allow more passes to be issued for earlier in the day so you don't get these crazy return times.

I would like for WDW to use their statistical data to improve the times while enforcing the return to make the system fair for all.

Do u really think "fair for all" is even considered in any Disney scenario?

 

[buzzCMlightyear]

Disney's FASTPASS service return time reminder
02/08/2012

In order to provide the best experience possible for everyone at our theme parks, all Walt Disney World Guests will be expected to return within their Disney's FASTPASS return time window, effective March 7.

Disney's FASTPASS service plays an important role in our Guests' ability to enjoy their visit to one of our Walt Disney World theme parks, and our ability to provide this great service is dependent upon Guests returning during the designated window. The vast majority of our Guests are aware of their return times and arrive in the window printed on the Disney's FASTPASS ticket.

As more Guests choose to take advantage of this feature, we want to provide the same opportunity to everyone. By asking all Guests to return within the window printed on their pass, more Guests will have the opportunity to enjoy this great service.

This is not a change, but simply a reminder of our existing policy. All Cast Members are expected to adhere to this policy when visiting the parks as Guests.

 

[punch57]

If Disney is going to enforce the end time it should be expanded to a 3 hour window !!! Disney this is FREE, take it run with it, be the hero, it is a great idea, no charge.

 

[EvoldicA]

I think this change will allow the FP line to move more efficiently. No way is a 3 hour window a good idea. Imagine multiple touring groups of people showing up at the same exact time within the three hour window. Ouch. Did anyone see the fast pass return line for Space Mountain on NYE? It was insane! This was due to people collecting fast passes for use later in the day...

~B

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Disney's FASTPASS service return time reminder
02/08/2012

In order to provide the best experience possible for everyone at our theme parks, all Walt Disney World Guests will be expected to return within their Disney's FASTPASS return time window, effective March 7.

Disney's FASTPASS service plays an important role in our Guests' ability to enjoy their visit to one of our Walt Disney World theme parks, and our ability to provide this great service is dependent upon Guests returning during the designated window. The vast majority of our Guests are aware of their return times and arrive in the window printed on the Disney's FASTPASS ticket.

As more Guests choose to take advantage of this feature, we want to provide the same opportunity to everyone. By asking all Guests to return within the window printed on their pass, more Guests will have the opportunity to enjoy this great service.

This is not a change, but simply a reminder of our existing policy. All Cast Members are expected to adhere to this policy when visiting the parks as Guests.

No offense but what a load.

 

[doconeill]

Disney's FASTPASS service return time reminder
02/08/2012

In order to provide the best experience possible for everyone at our theme parks, all Walt Disney World Guests will be expected to return within their Disney's FASTPASS return time window, effective March 7.

Disney's FASTPASS service plays an important role in our Guests' ability to enjoy their visit to one of our Walt Disney World theme parks, and our ability to provide this great service is dependent upon Guests returning during the designated window. The vast majority of our Guests are aware of their return times and arrive in the window printed on the Disney's FASTPASS ticket.

As more Guests choose to take advantage of this feature, we want to provide the same opportunity to everyone. By asking all Guests to return within the window printed on their pass, more Guests will have the opportunity to enjoy this great service.

This is not a change, but simply a reminder of our existing policy. All Cast Members are expected to adhere to this policy when visiting the parks as Guests.

Buzz, can you check the Hub and see if the Operational Reminder for Fastpass document is still available?

I think this change will allow the FP line to move more efficiently. No way is a 3 hour window a good idea. Imagine multiple touring groups of people showing up at the same exact time within the three hour window. Ouch. Did anyone see the fast pass return line for Space Mountain on NYE? It was insane! This was due to people collecting fast passes for use later in the day...

~B

The highlighted statement is often made, and never substantiated.

Those tour groups get their FPs in bulk by having their guides occupy a FP kiosk with all their tickets for 10-15 minutes or more, and will have return times that are close to each other and overlap significantly. So they CAN all enter the FP line at the same time and every one of them be within their window.

 

[Wendy&Grumpy]

Lots of sanctimonious dis'ers on this one.

All this is is the shoring up, the prelude to the 'pay for' fast pass that will soon take more from our collective pockets. Proving you should always be careful what you wish for...Especially with Disney.

I wouldn't have a problem with a paid-for-Fastpass, Universal style, so long as passholders receive free Fastpass after 4pm!!

(I'm seeing the benefits to being a passholder diminishing fast... would be nice to be given a new one... although that'san issue oranother thread.)

 

[jlewisinsyr]

All for enforcement of the stated return times as printed on your fast pass, so I'm a thumbs up on this.

 

[KYMickey]

Enforcing FP windows is also kind of pointless. Statistically, there is no difference between using a FP on time and using it late. Yes, there can be some short-term peaks and valleys as a result, but over the course of any reasonable length of time, it all evens out.

It evens out for the system but not for individuals who have to wait their turn. If they happened to hit one of the valleys they could end up with a very short wait time but if I hit one of the peaks it would be very long. The intent of Fastpass is to equalize wait times and make everyone's experience betters .

 

[buzzCMlightyear]

Buzz, can you check the Hub and see if the Operational Reminder for Fastpass document is still available?



The highlighted statement is often made, and never substantiated.

Those tour groups get their FPs in bulk by having their guides occupy a FP kiosk with all their tickets for 10-15 minutes or more, and will have return times that are close to each other and overlap significantly. So they CAN all enter the FP line at the same time and every one of them be within their window.

Yes it is still posted.


And for the statement about increasing wait times due to a large amount of late FP at once, I can assure you that is true. After working FP Return at an attraction for hours in a single day, you see a lot. And the line really does back up, due to a large amount of fastpasses that are coming late. Brazilian tour groups know about it, and almost always show up late.

 

[CandyMandy]

This discussion is focusing on the little ripples in the tidepool - and ignoring that big tidal wave way out on the horizon that is causing them.

That wave -- Xpass -- could very well end up lowering the number of "general" fastpasses available.

The impact of Xpass will be small at first (Disney is talking controlled, small pilots). But depending on how well the "micro-plan-every-single-hour-of-your-Disney-trip-months-in-advance" thing catches on, that could change.

Frankly, I suspect the appetite for "vacations with no spontaneity" is a lot lower than Disney thinks. But hey, maybe there is a segment out there which will spend big bucks to have every waking moment managed by Disney, just so they can avoid lines. The latter element used to be something you could accomplish yourself for free, if you were in the universe of those in the know (specifically, those of us who were up on how to maximize fast pass collection as well as the fact you could "bank" them for use later in the day).

Again, if that "do that for me for big $" segment exists and buys heavily into Xpass, it will lower the availability of fast passes for general guests and will particularly aggravate those who became accustomed to the "DYI minimize wait time" strategy. For Disney will have taken something any guest with a little bit of knowledge and initiative could do on their own and turned it into into a premium fee service.

 

[doconeill]

Yes it is still posted.


And for the statement about increasing wait times due to a large amount of late FP at once, I can assure you that is true. After working FP Return at an attraction for hours in a single day, you see a lot. And the line really does back up, due to a large amount of fastpasses that are coming late. Brazilian tour groups know about it, and almost always show up late.

But the same thing would still happen if they showed up in their window - they are large, they move as a block, and they are going to back up the FP line no matter what time of day it is.

 

[Wendy&Grumpy]

But the same thing would still happen if they showed up in their window - they are large, they move as a block, and they are going to back up the FP line no matter what time of day it is.

How can you say that? What about the Fastpasses scheduled during the window they show up in?!

Say 200 Fastpasses are given out for each time slot: if a Brazilian tour group of 200 shows up - hours after their scheduled time - at the same time as 200 guests - whose scheduled time it is - it's definitely going to cause more back up than if they had showed during their scheduled time, when they were the only 200 scheduled!

 

[doconeill]

How can you say that? What about the Fastpasses scheduled during the window they show up in?!

How can I say it? I just did! And I am saying when they show up IN THEIR WINDOW...

Say 200 Fastpasses are given out for each time slot: if a Brazilian tour group of 200 shows up - hours after their scheduled time - at the same time as 200 guests - whose scheduled time it is - it's definitely going to cause more back up than if they had showed during their scheduled time, when they were the only 200 scheduled!

Say 400 Fastpasses are given out for each time slot (still smaller than likely reality): if a Brazilian tour group of 200 shows up - during their scheduled time - just before another 200 guests - also during their scheduled time - it's going to delay the 200 guests just as much.

It's just a different bunch that were inconvenienced. If they showed up later, the earlier other 200 got on sooner, plus another 200 from the standby line got on sooner, etc.

Saying using FPs late backs up the FP line is true. So does using them on time. Each FP use backs up the line by one person, late or not. It's just noticed more when it is in clumps.

 

[Wendy&Grumpy]

Saying using FPs late backs up the FP line is true. So does using them on time. Each FP use backs up the line by one person, late or not. It's just noticed more when it is in clumps.

I agree that it's worse when huge groups show up - on time or late.

However, I still believe it's going to cause more delay when they show up late.

Maybe the only way to clarify what I'm trying to say is by minimizing the numbers instead of maximizing them and starting with an empty queue and the wait time at zero.

So we have:

-an empty queue
-a 5 minute gate to ride time
-an on time FP holder
-a standby guest

The FP holder rides and the standby guest rides after a 5 minute wait.

Then we have:

-an empty queue
-a 5 minute gate to ride time
-an expired FP holder
-an on time FP holder
-a standby guest

The expired FP holder rides, the on time FP holder rides after a five minute wait, and the standby guest rides after a 10 minute wait.

In the second scenario with the expired FP holder, the standby guest's wait time has doubled... and the on time FP holder had a 5 minute wait they would not have had if the expired FP holder wasn't there.

Think about a Doctor's office - (in this scenario, the walk-ins would be the standby guests, I would be the on-time FP holder, and the late scheduled appointment patient would be the expired FP holder.)

I know that in addition to scheduled appointments, my doctor has 2 "open" appointment times per hour for walk in patients. If I'm there on time for my scheduled appointment, 2 walk-ins arrive and take those open slots, and then the patient with the scheduled appointment slot before mine shows up late and is taken anyway... I'm going to be left waiting.

 

[doconeill]

I agree that it's worse when huge groups show up - on time or late.

However, I still believe it's going to cause more delay when they show up late.

Maybe the only way to clarify what I'm trying to say is by minimizing the numbers instead of maximizing them and starting with an empty queue and the wait time at zero.

So we have:

-an empty queue
-a 5 minute gate to ride time
-an on time FP holder
-a standby guest

The FP holder rides and the standby guest rides after a 5 minute wait.

Then we have:

-an empty queue
-a 5 minute gate to ride time
-an expired FP holder
-an on time FP holder
-a standby guest

The expired FP holder rides, the on time FP holder rides after a five minute wait, and the standby guest rides after a 10 minute wait.

In the second scenario with the expired FP holder, the standby guest's wait time has doubled... and the on time FP holder had a 5 minute wait they would not have had if the expired FP holder wasn't there.

Think about a Doctor's office - (in this scenario, the walk-ins would be the standby guests, I would be the on-time FP holder, and the late scheduled appointment patient would be the expired FP holder.)

I know that in addition to scheduled appointments, my doctor has 2 "open" appointment times per hour for walk in patients. If I'm there on time for my scheduled appointment, 2 walk-ins arrive and take those open slots, and then the patient with the scheduled appointment slot before mine shows up late and is taken anyway... I'm going to be left waiting.

Right...you can show an impact in this example - but it is an oversimplification in a sense...you have an extremely low load rate (one per unit time, such that any one person joining the line pushes everyone back an entire unit of time).

But when you can handle 100 people at a time, and someone gets in front, 99 of those people still see no difference. 1 person is pushed back a unit of time. Now keep ramping that up to the typical load rate of a Disney attraction.

But that is just when you are looking at that particular time cycle. If you look earlier - when the person who came late should have been there...one person actually got in one time cycle earlier. And when you work it back all the way to the person who got "bumped" - he ends up in the same ride cycle they would have been before. (and this is still an oversimplification - another FP user might get bumped one back than they would have, but the possibility of that is small as long as the FP line does empty as designed. If an operational issue causes problems that the FP line stays full for an extended time, then the impact can be greater).

Here's the rub. It's all in the perception. The person who got to ride one cycle earlier? Doesn't know a thing, really. The person who got bumped later to their "original" ride time? They seem themselves getting bumped, regardless, and therefore it harmed them.

This is why I call it the Theory of Fastpass Relativity - it depends on the frame of reference you are looking at. But when looked at from the whole - everything is the same.

One of these days I will finally write that simulation software...

 

[jlewisinsyr]

One of these days I will finally write that simulation software...

There are tools for this already, a simplistic tool is Erlang C modeling and is the basis for a lot of Contact Center staffing/forecasting.

 

[doconeill]

There are tools for this already, a simplistic tool is Erlang C modeling and is the basis for a lot of Contact Center staffing/forecasting.

Feh...I don't use other people's stuff. I write my own to order...

 

[tjkraz]

FASTPASS or no FASTPASS, ride capacities aren't changing so the number of guests accommodated in a business day will stay the same.

Removing X-Pass--and all of its uncertainties--from the equation, the immediate result I see is that FPs will remain available later in the day. Either guests will become more selective about taking FPs in the first place or more will go unused. If more go unused, ideally Disney will increase the number distributed for each window.

These factors should result in FPs for rides like Toy Story Mania and Soarin remaining available later into the operating day.

 

[punch57]

Ok maybe 3 hours windows is to big, BUT I do believe it needs to be bigger than 1 hour !!! Hour and a half or two hours. I know they are going to say we are not changing anything only enforcing the existing rules !!! Disney choose to ignor the rules and did not hide it and it is well published. I think they should give the little guy something for changing the rules !!!