FASTPASS Return Times to Be Enforced Beginning March 7

[lockedoutlogic]

well...i have no definitive take on this right now...but i'm suspicious of two things:

A. the goal is to integrate the rides even more with booked dining times and a blocked show schedule...thereby giving them a means to which points in the day i will have NOTHING to do but go in giftshops. (i've long suspected that they keep the restrooom -18 degrees just so you won't take your time and will get back out into...the giftshops)

B. as many have said - a precursor to more demanding more money to do the same things i've done 100 times.

I would think its a little of both...maybe for staffing...but probably to continue their goal of trying to squeeze every single second out of every single visitors day to attempt to generate more profit and use their low paid staff to a semi-ridiculous "super efficiency level".

There will be a point where the whole picture becomes clear - even to the average traveler - of whats been going on for 20 years now and it will suddenly just be too much. One price hike too many, one add-on more than will be tolerated, a few bucks on top of already ridiculously priced food and merchandise that will sour the appetite.

A point of critical mass.

It is clear that the management in place is determined to find that point, because their stock options will be worth more when they do it.

What's scary is that they think that they are smart enough to know where it is...and stop it.

And that is dangerous. In life and in business. We've seen many examples where business just rode their existing products and pricing as long as they could, and then slid backwards. The recent bankruptcy filing of Kodak is a prime example. IBM and McDonalds in the 80's...in a way, Microsoft (though they still are huge)...

you hope that disney doesn't think that they have "significant" potentials for new revenue streams with what they already have in place (though i'm sure they think they do). Because the WD parks have always been about reinvestment...it was never about being done and standing pat...let's hope that the Wharton types don't think they've got a better way.

I look at those viewing canopies on the safari everytime i go out there and laugh...because is still offers the same hit or miss views of the animals on what amounts to an overdesigned zoo exhibit - at 10 times the cost and size. But now they charge you $300 bucks to look at it. When you can just bounce up and down right through on a truck for a mere $93 bucks a day gate charge.

and the fast past thing sucks...back on topic

 

[OrcaPotter]

I was curious to see the DIS reaction to this news. It's pretty much what I expected. The Disney Blog (thedisneyblog on Facebook) has a pretty good breakdown of the Fastpass changes and explanation as to why FP was created to begin with and why, even after not performing as desired and causing more headaches than not, they still keep it. All my CM friends hate FP and wish Disney would just take it out; but they won't for the reasons explained in the post by The Disney Blog.

The method used by guests who collect FP's and then use them throughout the day at their leisure outside of their return window is one of the reasons why stand-by times get crazy. Look at Peter Pan. It's a fast-loader, continuously moving ride. It makes no sense for it to consistently have long stand-by times. Because FP has priority over stand-by, you hold up stand-by to admit FP first ... and the FP queue has to be empty before stand-by can be admitted.

My CM friends have been informed that the enforcement of the FP returns will have a buffer of 5 minutes before the window and 10-15 minutes after. Exactly how Disney will handle the irate guests who arrive after that point is left to be seen. I agree that the distribution of FP's should also change. Decrease the number distributed, keep distribution closed until mid-day, begin using some sort of barcode system on the FP tickets that CMs scan (like Universal for their paid program). Disney should also start offering single rider options to more of the e-ticket rides; like all of the mountains, for example.

As a local, planning out every minute of my visit is not only unnecessary, but an inconvenience if it has an impact on day visitors. WDW has begun trying to encourage more locals to buy AP's and specially-priced multi-day tickets during the "slow" season. Those spontaneous "let's go to the parks" days will disappear if we're required to reserve all our rides in advance or stuck in overinflated stand-by times resulting from an increase of FP users.

There's a way to make the system work, or heck, start charging people like Universal does. That should cut down stand-by times and give Disney the profit they've already gained and desire. Between using Universal's single rider lines and crowd strategies, most of the time I wait no more than 30 minutes for any of the big attractions.

 

[doconeill]

The method used by guests who collect FP's and then use them throughout the day at their leisure outside of their return window is one of the reasons why stand-by times get crazy. Look at Peter Pan. It's a fast-loader, continuously moving ride. It makes no sense for it to consistently have long stand-by times. Because FP has priority over stand-by, you hold up stand-by to admit FP first ... and the FP queue has to be empty before stand-by can be admitted.

If the standby wait times are consistently long, that has nothing to do with late FP use. Late FP use would make the standby wait time shorter at first, since they are not getting in the FP line earlier. There is no way using a FP late can cause any sort of backup in the standby line until they actually enter the FP line. And even then it affects only the actual wait time, and not the actual time of day they get on (but that's rehashing old stuff)

If the use of FP in general is causing significant backups to the standby line on a consistent basis, then they need to cut down on the number of FPs issued. The use of it itself should not make the wait times in the standby line any longer on average, since the capacity of the ride hasn't changed, and the FP holders are just virtually in the line. What can can cause an effect is if a lot of people are getting in the standby line of Peter Pan that have FPs elsewhere...but that's a problem that can't easily be solved except for removing it from everywhere - and that's not going to happen any time soon.

I'm also not sure I'd call Peter Pan a fast loader - its better than most, but it's not like a continuous loader like the omnimover rides. I think both the combination of its load rate and its popularity is why that line is always long.

As for FP priority - it depends on the CM, but I believe in a lot of cases that if there are a lot of people suddenly in the FP line, then the CM is supposed to let some small ratio of standby guests through as well, until the FP line empties. If the FP line is never empty - well, back to my earlier suggestion of reducing the number of FPs being issued.

 

[Faldred]

Look at Peter Pan. It's a fast-loader, continuously moving ride. It makes no sense for it to consistently have long stand-by times.

You might want to choose a better example. Peter Pan has consistency long stand-by times because it doesn't have enough capacity to handle demand. You could eliminate FastPass altogether and you'd still have long waits -- I think the standby time is capped by frustration factors influencing demand.

Frankly, if it weren't for FastPass, I'd never ride it.

 

[doconeill]

FYI, I just posted a poll in the TPAS forum about how people tended to use their FPs under the old policy - it would be interesting to see how it turns out:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2876051

 

[punch57]

We always go get a FP when we first get in the park, then we go ride another ride in the area as soon as we can we go get another pass at another ride; when the time comes if we are in the area we ride it if not we do not rush to get all the way to the other side of the park; WE DO start working our way in that direction most of the time. But we also will just hold on to the FP till later because Disney allows it; We will just be slaves to FP Clock !!!

 

[pacostrano]

I was always using them at the time that they show on the ticket but I didnt even knew that we were able to use them even after the time past lolll

I think I will do it before they enforce it lol 16 days

 

[CurlyJo224]

The fastpasses have a start and end time. It never would have occurred to me to even try to use it outside of those times. "New" policy works for me.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

The fastpasses have a start and end time. It never would have occurred to me to even try to use it outside of those times. "New" policy works for me.

As long as it works for you.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I was curious to see the DIS reaction to this news. It's pretty much what I expected. The Disney Blog (thedisneyblog on Facebook) has a pretty good breakdown of the Fastpass changes and explanation as to why FP was created to begin with and why, even after not performing as desired and causing more headaches than not, they still keep it. All my CM friends hate FP and wish Disney would just take it out; but they won't for the reasons explained in the post by The Disney Blog.

The method used by guests who collect FP's and then use them throughout the day at their leisure outside of their return window is one of the reasons why stand-by times get crazy. Look at Peter Pan. It's a fast-loader, continuously moving ride. It makes no sense for it to consistently have long stand-by times. Because FP has priority over stand-by, you hold up stand-by to admit FP first ... and the FP queue has to be empty before stand-by can be admitted.

My CM friends have been informed that the enforcement of the FP returns will have a buffer of 5 minutes before the window and 10-15 minutes after. Exactly how Disney will handle the irate guests who arrive after that point is left to be seen. I agree that the distribution of FP's should also change. Decrease the number distributed, keep distribution closed until mid-day, begin using some sort of barcode system on the FP tickets that CMs scan (like Universal for their paid program). Disney should also start offering single rider options to more of the e-ticket rides; like all of the mountains, for example.

As a local, planning out every minute of my visit is not only unnecessary, but an inconvenience if it has an impact on day visitors. WDW has begun trying to encourage more locals to buy AP's and specially-priced multi-day tickets during the "slow" season. Those spontaneous "let's go to the parks" days will disappear if we're required to reserve all our rides in advance or stuck in overinflated stand-by times resulting from an increase of FP users.

There's a way to make the system work, or heck, start charging people like Universal does. That should cut down stand-by times and give Disney the profit they've already gained and desire. Between using Universal's single rider lines and crowd strategies, most of the time I wait no more than 30 minutes for any of the big attractions.

I refute your post with one question. If FP is to blame for tha looooong Peter Pan ride line, how is it that the line was exactly the same in the days before FP?

 

[ASteelersMidget]

Peter Pan has a long wait time because it is a low capacity ride. Like most of the rides in fantasy land. Besides. I've NEVER seen anyone use or get a PP fastpass. People would rather get " X Mountain" fastpasses.

 

[ChrisFL]

I refute your post with one question. If FP is to blame for tha looooong Peter Pan ride line, how is it that the line was exactly the same in the days before FP?

Uh-oh, not another FP debate about Peter Pan wait times

The fact is that no one can use their own personal experience to determine what impact FP has on the regular standby line.

When the return window for FP gets enforced, despite all of the guest relations issues that it will inevitably cause, the lines should move better in the later part of the day.

 

[buzzCMlightyear]

The fact is that no one can use their own personal experience to determine what impact FP has on the regular standby line.

I still stand by my statement that you don't see the difference until your standing there for hours as a CM and see it first hand, like I have.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Uh-oh, not another FP debate about Peter Pan wait times

The fact is that no one can use their own personal experience to determine what impact FP has on the regular standby line.

When the return window for FP gets enforced, despite all of the guest relations issues that it will inevitably cause, the lines should move better in the later part of the day.

I agree Chris. I was simply pointing out my perception that the lines at PP are very long now, the were very long 5 years ago and the were very long in the 80's and 90's. With that info I just can't see FP being blamed for the long lines.

As for your supposition that enforcement will create better moving lines by days end, I do disagree, because if that happens Disney will simply operate at lower capacity (thus saving a few bucks) and keeping the long lines that they know people will stand in. I know you know they don't like walk on's.

BuzzCM, your perspective is appreciated, accepted and unique but it doesn't trump al other opinions, in fact, I bet we'll be hearing from other CM's at some point that will disagree with you.

 

[nytimez]

I still stand by my statement that you don't see the difference until your standing there for hours as a CM and see it first hand, like I have.

It might give you insight into how many people use FPs late vs on time, but no matter where you stand the math is still the same.

 

[Wendy&Grumpy]

It might give you insight into how many people use FPs late vs on time, but no matter where you stand the math is still the same.

The math of how many guests can ride a certain attraction in an hour remains the same, however, the math of how long standby guests wait changes. And that is the issue folks have with late FP use.

Let's say the capacity of a ride is 500 guests per hour and FP are allotted at 200 per hour. That means 300 standby guests and 200 FP guests get to ride in a given hour.

Now, if 400 FP guests come through in that hour (200 on time and 200 late) only 100 standby guests get to ride in that hour. The other 200 - that would have ridden within that hour had the 200 late FP users used their FPs on time - have to wait longer.

And yes, I'm well aware that those lucky duck standby riders on queue during the hour(s) that our late FP users were scheduled got to ride earlier than they would have had the late FP users used their FPs during their scheduled windows; that does not change the effect on our later unlucky standby guests!

Why is such simple math so hard to understand?

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

don't know. Try having an open mind.

 

[DizCaptain]

Why is such simple math so hard to understand?

Because quite frankly no one truly cares about maximizing efficiency except for the nitpicky and impatient, and Disney. I seriously don't think in the countless times I visited the world that, while waiting in line for a ride, I pondered how they could maximize the efficiency of said ride through an enforcement of a system of amenities in association with that of a fluctuating ever-growing standby queue.

In a nut-shell, I'm on vacation and a line is a line, and if I have a fastpass and didn't make the return time but am allowed to use it, that's fine by me. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Oh and I don't want to hear people whine about how they're angels who follow the time slots, you could've braved it up to use them later too, but you didn't, sorry.

I'm against this enforcement, but I saw it coming with how they've handled fastpass lately. What they REALLY need to deal with are time campers who block the fastpass entrance waiting for their time to enter... those people really annoy me...

 

[racefanof88]

I don't understand where the problem comes in????? Why is it so difficult to adhere to the FP time frame? If you don't want to ride at the time stated on your FP, go back later and get one that falls into your schedule, OR wait in the stand by line!!!!!!!

I look at it like keeping any reservation or appointment. When I have a ticket for a movie or show, or any ticketed event, I show up at the time stated on the ticket. I would NEVER show up on Tuesday for an event that I had a Monday ticket for!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not trying to step on toes, but could the "I can show up anytime I like" attitude be one reason Disney started charging for no shows for ADRs?!?!?!?

 

[TisBit]

The math of how many guests can ride a certain attraction in an hour remains the same, however, the math of how long standby guests wait changes. And that is the issue folks have with late FP use.

Let's say the capacity of a ride is 500 guests per hour and FP are allotted at 200 per hour. That means 300 standby guests and 200 FP guests get to ride in a given hour.

Now, if 400 FP guests come through in that hour (200 on time and 200 late) only 100 standby guests get to ride in that hour. The other 200 - that would have ridden within that hour had the 200 late FP users used their FPs on time - have to wait longer.

And yes, I'm well aware that those lucky duck standby riders on queue during the hour(s) that our late FP users were scheduled got to ride earlier than they would have had the late FP users used their FPs during their scheduled windows; that does not change the effect on our later unlucky standby guests!

Why is such simple math so hard to understand?

Yes, so basically it is a wash. One guest is potentially inconvenienced at one time, while another guest has an advantage at another time. But in the end, everyone is inconvenienced equally, except the fastpass user that got delayed at another attraction or had slow service during a meal?? Not sure where logic falls into that one, because regardless life is not "fair" and someone will always be unhappy.

The fact of the matter is that it is no the majority of fast pass users that wait until the end of the day to use their fast passes as many people try to say. While we may use a fastpass late, I don't wait around until the end of the day to use it. A one hour time frame to return is difficult when an average que line is 45-60 minutes for your major attractions. If the line slows down, all the sudden your fast pass is useless.

As I have said on numerous occasions, if they want to enforce return times, it should be a 2-4 hour window, to better accomodate touring plans, lunch/dinner reservations, etc.