Fastpass return or replacement?

[cdurham1]

She wrote me again -- she apparently likes talking about it, especially since other teams seem to be leaking stuff, too.

Because there are questions:

1) she's at corporate. Very excited to be moving home in a couple of years. Went to high school together. Broke my heart when she went with someone else to prom junior year.
2) I got the impression that stuff like M&Gs, exclusive parade and fireworks viewing were part of this. But she insinuated that this rollout is part of the reason ADRs haven't gone back to 180 days yet
3) Just part of one team that talked about plans. She said it would be normal for there to be competing plans.
4) A good chance FP will just come back. But from what she understands, they don't love tons of park hopping, and the reservation system keeps that in check. FPs with park hopping has always been a mess.
5) Virtual queues for everything had a BIG push for a while, but enthusiasm has tapered off.
6) the difference with the Genie and FPs is the Genie basically assigns you a time slot instead of you selecting it from a list. This gets you out of their database faster. So you'd say a Genie in the morning, not a FP at 8:50. And it becomes a sort of get what you get. You'd still get a time and a window (albeit shorter) so it would be a lot more regulated than it is. Snd instead of you being able to group your FPs in the morning, for example, the Genie would space them out throughout the day.
7) inside, there are BIG battles about paid FPs in any form. They know the money would be huge -- one analyst said it would be bigger than actual park admission revenue -- but the brand damage would be tremendous.
8) she'd like to meet my wife and kids when she gets back to Orlando.

You are going to get her fired for leaking all that

 

[Tom_E_D]

Len Testa is also the author of the "Unofficial Guide to..." series of guidebooks to various Disney destinations. I always found his irreverent approach to visiting the parks very entertaining. The "Dumbo or Die" advice was particularly amusing and dates back to when there was only one Dumbo attraction in Fantasyland.

Bob Sehlinger was the original author of the Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney World book, and author or editor for the other Unofficial Guides. Len Testa was later added as co-author. I can't say who wrote the Dumbo or Die advice, but Sehlinger was writing in an irreverent style before Testa came aboard.

 

[DefnotDLav]

You are going to get her fired for leaking all that

Why? It’s all conjecture and possible scenarios. No real secrets.

 

[jade1]

I have been wondering the same thing. Maybe they take them thru the exit?

We saw Jack Black and fam a few years ago XMAS week, being brought in the Splash Exit. But seems extreme for us muggles even if we splurge.

 

[mitsukoshi samurai]

We saw Jack Black and fam a few years ago XMAS week, being brought in the Splash Exit. But seems extreme for us muggles even if we splurge.

Unless you graduated from hogwarts

 

[Jennasis]

So complicated. So unnecessary.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

7) inside, there are BIG battles about paid FPs in any form. They know the money would be huge -- one analyst said it would be bigger than actual park admission revenue -- but the brand damage would be tremendous.

Well they’re certainly not wrong about the brand damage. The lightning system described upthread sounds significantly more crass and infuriating to the people who can **only** afford to budget $5,000 but not $15,000 to a theme park vacation then any other line-skip system I’ve heard of in any theme park. They’re going to make six flags look like a huge step up.

 

[Grasshopper2016]

This option isn’t as clear but I’d guess the true value of “trip planning” is you can pay to prebook all your standby line waits.

That makes a lot of sense to me --- at least as a way of understanding this rumor. With "Genie Plus," you're not just paying for a touring plan -- an efficiently designed blueprint for how to spend your day, of the type you can get from the Touring Plans website. You're also paying for advance, guaranteed access to the standby lines in all of the rides that you want to ride, at reasonably spaced intervals. On a busy day when the standby lines fill up quickly, that can be a huge advantage. "Genie Basic" would let you book a time to join the standby line for free, but perhaps those times would run out altogether, or would be very far in the future. (And who knows if you can, for free, hold more than one of them at a time?) With "Genie Plus," you could lock them in for the whole day, at all rides, in advance. And then "Lightning Pass" would let you reserve fastpass lane times (rather than just standby lane times) for an additional fee. And "Lightning Pass Plus" would let you jump straight into the fastpass line, rather than secure a fastpass for later in the day, for an even greater fee. Convoluted, to be sure. But not incoherent.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

That makes a lot of sense to me --- at least as a way of understanding this rumor. With "Genie Plus," you're not just paying for a touring plan -- an efficiently designed blueprint for how to spend your day, of the type you can get from the Touring Plans website. You're also paying for advance, guaranteed access to the standby lines in all of the rides that you want to ride, at reasonably spaced intervals. On a busy day when the standby lines fill up quickly, that can be a huge advantage. "Genie Basic" would let you book a time to join the standby line for free, but perhaps those times would run out altogether, or would be very far in the future. (And who knows if you can, for free, hold more than one of them at a time?) With "Genie Plus," you could lock them in for the whole day, at all rides, in advance. And then "Lightning Pass" would let you reserve fastpass lane times (rather than just standby lane times) for an additional fee. And "Lightning Pass Plus" would let you jump straight into the fastpass line, rather than secure a fastpass for later in the day, for an even greater fee. Convoluted, to be sure. But not incoherent.

I mean, you’re talking about a system where the *average* casual theme park goer will have to fight with an app (and possibly pay extra!) just for the privilege of waiting in a normal line all while watching people who are spending a fortune skip them in that long line they fought to stand in? This is a really bad system. Like, terribly bad.

 

[Grasshopper2016]

I mean, you’re talking about a system where the *average* casual theme park goer will have to fight with an app (and possibly pay extra!) just for the privilege of waiting in a normal line all while watching people who are spending a fortune skip them in that long line they fought to stand in? This is a really bad system. Like, terribly bad.

I don't disagree. I didn't say it's a good system; I just said it makes some sense! I guess the question would be whether Disney could find a way to explain and market it in simple terms that everyone could follow (while at the same time not making it look like a money grab). On that front, I'm skeptical.

 

[poetz]

I'll be very surprised if Genie Plus gives advance guaranteed access to any standby queues. What happens when those afternoon thunderstorms pop up and half your rides close for three hours? Or the ride you're supposed to be in next breaks down? The entire touring plan will have to be immediately reshuffled, taking into account everyone else's paid for plans. Disney IT can't even handle the current booking windows that open. It's more likely it'll recommend which queues you should join at what time based on your preferences, but it will be on the guest to actually enter the queue, whether physically or virtually, or buy the terribly named lightning pass.

 

[whiporee]

One more follow up:

She said this idea of paid FPs is a very big deal at high levels for the domestic parks. There is a school of thought that offering any kind of straightforward pay-for-FP-and-FP-only is a complete violation of the core corporate values. That's why VIP tours have a guide -- it's not JUST about the FPs, it's about more. Same thing with the CLFPs -- they were a benefit, but there were other things involved (and when those other things went away, there was a lot of frustration from the people who were part of the decision team). They know that at any point in the last 25 years or so they could have done what every other domestic park has done and sold fast access, but part of what makes WDW and DL special is they don't. That's a hard thing to walk away from.

But there is another group who looks at overall revenue and says it's foolish not to take it, and the brand is strong enough to survive any kind of blemish, especially this year when there's no cruise revenue. Most of them are newer, but she said that group is diverse and makes logical sense -- these are not times to be leaving ANY money on the table.

She doesn't dismiss the idea all together, but she says that a paid Fast Pass system would be a victory for one group over the other. She could see the ability to pay for more wishes -- she seemed to reread and clarify that she thinks wishes will be limited to three, so the old refresh system would be gone -- and she said that Genie would be marketed as enhancements to the overall experience, not a part of it. In other words, the norm would be waiting in a standby line, and there would be limited chances to get a bit of magic. But she could see as a resort benefit being allowed to buy an extra wish or two, but not more than that.

I'm pretty sure she knows I'm posting all this. She's pretty frustrated that the narrative is that the paid FP is inevitable, because from her point of view and her team's, it's not.

Also, don't expect much until after October. A lot of stuff up in the air, though she is pitching for Genie for the 50th.

 

[Grasshopper2016]

I'll be very surprised if Genie Plus gives advance guaranteed access to any standby queues. What happens when those afternoon thunderstorms pop up and half your rides close for three hours? Or the ride you're supposed to be in next breaks down? The entire touring plan will have to be immediately reshuffled, taking into account everyone else's paid for plans. Disney IT can't even handle the current booking windows that open. It's more likely it'll recommend which queues you should join at what time based on your preferences, but it will be on the guest to actually enter the queue, whether physically or virtually, or buy the terribly named lightning pass.

Maybe, but I don’t see Disney selling a touring plan that tells you to go to Space Mountain at 2:00, Tomorrowland Speedway at 2:55, and SDMT at 3:20, and then you show up at Space Mountain at 2:00 and are told you have to wait an hour just to get in the long standby line. What did you pay for? I suspect IT would reshuffle for unexpected downtime. And Disney would include all kinds of caveats with the sale. But I think, for this to make sense, it would need to pre-allocate standby line access.

 

[jujubiee4]

One more follow up:

She said this idea of paid FPs is a very big deal at high levels for the domestic parks. There is a school of thought that offering any kind of straightforward pay-for-FP-and-FP-only is a complete violation of the core corporate values. That's why VIP tours have a guide -- it's not JUST about the FPs, it's about more. Same thing with the CLFPs -- they were a benefit, but there were other things involved (and when those other things went away, there was a lot of frustration from the people who were part of the decision team). They know that at any point in the last 25 years or so they could have done what every other domestic park has done and sold fast access, but part of what makes WDW and DL special is they don't. That's a hard thing to walk away from.

But there is another group who looks at overall revenue and says it's foolish not to take it, and the brand is strong enough to survive any kind of blemish, especially this year when there's no cruise revenue. Most of them are newer, but she said that group is diverse and makes logical sense -- these are not times to be leaving ANY money on the table.

She doesn't dismiss the idea all together, but she says that a paid Fast Pass system would be a victory for one group over the other. She could see the ability to pay for more wishes -- she seemed to reread and clarify that she thinks wishes will be limited to three, so the old refresh system would be gone -- and she said that Genie would be marketed as enhancements to the overall experience, not a part of it. In other words, the norm would be waiting in a standby line, and there would be limited chances to get a bit of magic. But she could see as a resort benefit being allowed to buy an extra wish or two, but not more than that.

I'm pretty sure she knows I'm posting all this. She's pretty frustrated that the narrative is that the paid FP is inevitable, because from her point of view and her team's, it's not.

Also, don't expect much until after October. A lot of stuff up in the air, though she is pitching for Genie for the 50th.

Not sure if i missed it but has she said about offering anything else for onsite guests?

 

[StarrySkye21]

One more follow up:

She said this idea of paid FPs is a very big deal at high levels for the domestic parks. There is a school of thought that offering any kind of straightforward pay-for-FP-and-FP-only is a complete violation of the core corporate values. That's why VIP tours have a guide -- it's not JUST about the FPs, it's about more. Same thing with the CLFPs -- they were a benefit, but there were other things involved (and when those other things went away, there was a lot of frustration from the people who were part of the decision team). They know that at any point in the last 25 years or so they could have done what every other domestic park has done and sold fast access, but part of what makes WDW and DL special is they don't. That's a hard thing to walk away from.

But there is another group who looks at overall revenue and says it's foolish not to take it, and the brand is strong enough to survive any kind of blemish, especially this year when there's no cruise revenue. Most of them are newer, but she said that group is diverse and makes logical sense -- these are not times to be leaving ANY money on the table.

She doesn't dismiss the idea all together, but she says that a paid Fast Pass system would be a victory for one group over the other. She could see the ability to pay for more wishes -- she seemed to reread and clarify that she thinks wishes will be limited to three, so the old refresh system would be gone -- and she said that Genie would be marketed as enhancements to the overall experience, not a part of it. In other words, the norm would be waiting in a standby line, and there would be limited chances to get a bit of magic. But she could see as a resort benefit being allowed to buy an extra wish or two, but not more than that.

I'm pretty sure she knows I'm posting all this. She's pretty frustrated that the narrative is that the paid FP is inevitable, because from her point of view and her team's, it's not.

Also, don't expect much until after October. A lot of stuff up in the air, though she is pitching for Genie for the 50th.

This close to the 50th and they are still “pitching” ideas? You’d think they would be well past the final decision making, nearly finished with testing, and finalizing plans for public use.

 

[snowwhite84]

One more follow up:

She said this idea of paid FPs is a very big deal at high levels for the domestic parks. There is a school of thought that offering any kind of straightforward pay-for-FP-and-FP-only is a complete violation of the core corporate values. That's why VIP tours have a guide -- it's not JUST about the FPs, it's about more. Same thing with the CLFPs -- they were a benefit, but there were other things involved (and when those other things went away, there was a lot of frustration from the people who were part of the decision team). They know that at any point in the last 25 years or so they could have done what every other domestic park has done and sold fast access, but part of what makes WDW and DL special is they don't. That's a hard thing to walk away from.

But there is another group who looks at overall revenue and says it's foolish not to take it, and the brand is strong enough to survive any kind of blemish, especially this year when there's no cruise revenue. Most of them are newer, but she said that group is diverse and makes logical sense -- these are not times to be leaving ANY money on the table.

She doesn't dismiss the idea all together, but she says that a paid Fast Pass system would be a victory for one group over the other. She could see the ability to pay for more wishes -- she seemed to reread and clarify that she thinks wishes will be limited to three, so the old refresh system would be gone -- and she said that Genie would be marketed as enhancements to the overall experience, not a part of it. In other words, the norm would be waiting in a standby line, and there would be limited chances to get a bit of magic. But she could see as a resort benefit being allowed to buy an extra wish or two, but not more than that.

I'm pretty sure she knows I'm posting all this. She's pretty frustrated that the narrative is that the paid FP is inevitable, because from her point of view and her team's, it's not.

Also, don't expect much until after October. A lot of stuff up in the air, though she is pitching for Genie for the 50th.

So in this scenario the decision hasn’t already been made? I find that hard to believe.

 

[Jrb1979]

So in this scenario the decision hasn’t already been made? I find that hard to believe.

I'm starting to think it's going to be closer to what was posted earlier and similar to what Paris is doing.

 

[poetz]

Maybe, but I don’t see Disney selling a touring plan that tells you to go to Space Mountain at 2:00, Tomorrowland Speedway at 2:55, and SDMT at 3:20, and then you show up at Space Mountain at 2:00 and are told you have to wait an hour just to get in the long standby line. What did you pay for? I suspect IT would reshuffle for unexpected downtime. And Disney would include all kinds of caveats with the sale. But I think, for this to make sense, it would need to pre-allocate standby line access.

But if the lightning pass is all same day and the standby queues could turn off and on depending on demand, the touring plan couldn't realistically lock you into any 'return times' before same day either, especially when you add in dining reservations. Now those I can see Genie Plus getting for people ahead of time. Maybe it could assign you some standby times morning of based on what you told it you wanted to do, but if Genie Plus effectively gets you pre booked guaranteed rides, it could cut into the need for LP or LP+. Especially if Genie Plus is a cheaper rate for an entire day instead of paying one ride at a time. I realize you'll potentially still be waiting an hour or more once you enter standby, but on rides that lose any ability to join standby for the day shortly after park opening, it could still be more cost effective in the long run.

You could be right, of course. I don't put anything past Disney's money grab. But it's also possible that Disney offering paid customized touring plans is just them going after the market that's already there and paying Touring Plans to do it for them now, only Disney would be able to throw in push notifications to direct people where they want them to go and more opportunities for the LP upcharge.

 

[mercuryvenus]

So complicated. So unnecessary.

So very much a rumor right now.

 

[Jrb1979]

So very much a rumor right now.

Don't worry for you, @whiporee and a few others FP+ will return.