Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[BNM]

So.........say I pull a FP for between 1-2 p.m. A few hours later another guest (say Kelly, just to give the guest a name) pulls a FP for 4-5 p.m.

I return with my FP late & show up at 4:10 p.m. Kelly returns during her window at 4:15 p.m. Even if I would have returned during my assigned time frame I am still ahead of Kelly in line.

It seems that the only way my FP wouldn't affect her at all is if I choose to use it after her FP return time.

Also, say that 500 people can get a FP for each one hour window. The only way you can guarantee that 499 people aren't ahead of you is if you show up precisely at the time your window begins. Unless, of course, 500 people from the window before yours get in line right at the end of their window!

Which leads me to my point...........does it really matter & who cares!

So true.
The people who are really against late use of FP are against it on principle, because they think THE RULES MUST BE FOLLOWED. People keep trying to make arguments that it negatively effects them in some way, but those arguments just don't hold water. Some of them make no sense at all. There are 1000 things I could do in the parks that would delay someone else by 30 seconds. Yes, if everyone chose to, say, buy a popcorn at the exact same time, the lines would be long for popcorn and you would not be happy if you wanted popcorn also. But that's not gonna happen. Just as everyone isn't going to want to use a FP for the same ride at once.

Possibly, when Xpass comes online there will only be a few Xpass attractions. In that case, I could see late use having an effect.

 

[doconeill]

I think the argument is that the late user wouldn't be in line at all if late FPs were denied.

If they were denied, sure. But if they knew they'd be denied, wouldn't they instead have used it on time? Or not pulled it to begin with? Or handed it to someone who would be on time? We don't know. But we're primarily talking about people who know they won't be denied.

Plus, we're still led to believe there will be exceptions. And when there's one, there are others sure to follow...kinda like ants...

 

[Reddog1134]

If they were denied, sure. But if they knew they'd be denied, wouldn't they instead have used it on time? Or not pulled it to begin with? Or handed it to someone who would be on time? We don't know. But we're primarily talking about people who know they won't be denied.

Plus, we're still led to believe there will be exceptions. And when there's one, there are others sure to follow...kinda like ants...

What I was saying was I think other peoples (not mine) argument against late FP is that they wouldn't be in line.

To elaborate, a lot of guests say things like "a group of 5 people with late FP's got in line right after I got in the standby line". They then perceive themselves to be pushed back by 5 people (-5). Many DISers have shown that they are actually at +/-0 because those people would have been in line before.

The new argument seems to be "if they didn't let those late users in, I would be +5."

So it's the same thing looked at from a different perspective.

 

[Attagirl3]

So, exactly how many times can you beat a dead horse?

 

[W.E.D.]

So, exactly how many times can you beat a dead horse?

YES! That is the true question that should be presented here!!

What kind of horse is it?

Can we all beat it at the same time, or will we be issued reservations for a specific time?

What happens if I can't beat the horse at my appointed time? Can I come back later and do it?

 

[tofubeast]

I am so sorry if this has been mentioned before...

Do you think that Disney might increase the window time one has to go on the ride? I was thinking that this could help for those who get stuck at restaurants etc. Perhaps if they made the window time a little longer, this would be a 'compromise' about the time enforcement.

However, if they did this, I would hope they would not make it longer till you could collect your next FP as well.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

So, exactly how many times can you beat a dead horse?

To infinity... and beyond!

 

[Attagirl3]

YES! That is the true question that should be presented here!!

What kind of horse is it?

Can we all beat it at the same time, or will we be issued reservations for a specific time?

What happens if I can't beat the horse at my appointed time? Can I come back later and do it?

To infinity... and beyond!

 

[mom2rtk]

Are you suggesting that something you don't see can't hurt you? I do not need to KNOW who is using late FP or how many, all I need to KNOW that even one late FP affects me, that is all. Was I lucky not to have anyone in front of me using late FP or not does not change concept.

So your answer is that you DON'T know that anyone in front of you was ever there because of a late fastpass. Thanks for answering.

In fact, if you always use yours within the specified time, then it's safe to assume you've been in a fastpass line earlier in the day. If so, it's just as likely that your wait was SHORTER because others in your slot were waiting until later.

 

[mcd2745]

I am so sorry if this has been mentioned before...

Do you think that Disney might increase the window time one has to go on the ride? I was thinking that this could help for those who get stuck at restaurants etc. Perhaps if they made the window time a little longer, this would be a 'compromise' about the time enforcement.

However, if they did this, I would hope they would not make it longer till you could collect your next FP as well.

While I don't think it would be a bad idea to increase the window, there doesn't seem to be any info/rumors or anything to suggest that may happen.

Yes, somethimes there are unexpected things that happen (such as getting stuck at a restaurant) that could cause someone to miss the time frame printed on their FP. And that's likely why they accepted the late FPs. But, if you now know that they are no longer accepting late FPs, and you have a lunch ADR at 1pm, it's at your own risk if you collect a FP with a return time of say 1:30-2:30.

 

[doconeill]

I am so sorry if this has been mentioned before...

Do you think that Disney might increase the window time one has to go on the ride? I was thinking that this could help for those who get stuck at restaurants etc. Perhaps if they made the window time a little longer, this would be a 'compromise' about the time enforcement.

However, if they did this, I would hope they would not make it longer till you could collect your next FP as well.

There has been no real rumor that they plan to increase the window. However, the original report indicated that they would have a 15 minutes or so leeway after the window (and 5 minutes before). This hasn't been confirmed with any later info though.

 

[going/again]

Actually intention does not come into the definition of miss. According to dictionary . com, for the purposes of this discussion to miss is to fail to be present at or for. It does not specify that you have to fail to be present accidentally. Therefore, the past policy of honoring all FPs after the window opens is accurate.

Once again I am not disputing the policy, but intentionally, is not accidentally, is it see your dictionary, the policy is correct as is but was never meant to be used as it is being used now or why would their be a timeframe on it.

 

[tofubeast]

There has been no real rumor that they plan to increase the window. However, the original report indicated that they would have a 15 minutes or so leeway after the window (and 5 minutes before). This hasn't been confirmed with any later info though.

I had read that too. Just wondered if the actual window would maybe grow as well. Well I guess for now, everything is up in the air and in rumorville. I suppose we will all learn (possibly) in just a couple weeks from now.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I wasn't one of the original designers of the earth and sun, but I'm going to speculate that the sun is going to set in the west this evening. I don't know for sure, but that's just my speculation.

I'm sorry, the Sun does not set in the West. There is only an appearance of it doing this. Actually it is the rotation of the Earth which causes this appearance; the Sun is effectively stationary!

There has been no real rumor that they plan to increase the window. However, the original report indicated that they would have a 15 minutes or so leeway after the window (and 5 minutes before). This hasn't been confirmed with any later info though.

According to the advisory on The Hub, there is no indication that there will be any other changes, such as a specific grace period. At that is current as of this posting.

 

[going/again]

Why not take advantage of the disability and get a disability pass? You'd pretty much have unlimited pastpasses all day/everyday.

their is no advantage to a disability, as for the rest of your post you are very much misinformed.

 

[doconeill]

I'm sorry, the Sun does not set in the West. There is only an appearance of it doing this. Actually it is the rotation of the Earth which causes this appearance; the Sun is effectively stationary!

And this is why I talk about "frame of reference" when talking about FP and wait times

 

[WillAustin]

Once again I am not disputing the policy, but intentionally, is not accidentally, is it see your dictionary, the policy is correct as is but was never meant to be used as it is being used now or why would their be a timeframe on it.

If you read back through the entire thread you'll see a few reasons for the window being listed even without it being enforced.

 

[going/again]

What I was posting about was when someone said what the intent of Fastpass return window was,

from a reasonably reliable source,

Pretty obvious what the intent was, its printed on the fastpass its self return between whatever the time says. not exactly rocket science is it

 

[KellyNY]

It hurts you if and only if you're getting in line behind that person, rather than ahead of someone who if they'd returned on time would have been in front of you. You're basically arguing that it doesn't matter that someone else got to ride a little faster, all that matters is that you encountered a longer line than you should have. But what you're missing is that FP doesn't exist to make your (or any other specific guest's) wait time as short as possible; it exists to manage overall traffic flow at the most popular attractions, and from that perspective late use is a zero sum game that has no detrimental effect.

Where we disagree is on what actually matters. I'm arguing that one individual's experience in the line doesn't count for much when compared to the total number of people who go through the line every day.

I'd also argue that the effect becomes more important on rides that run at capacity most of the time because it affects more riders.

I agree that 100 people getting in line in front of you outside their window, would slow you, personally, down. Where take issue is the idea that the delay is significant and that it happens all the time. As a PP pointed out, even 100 people added in front of you doesn't add a large amount to your wait time.

The size of the FP line alone at any given time doesn't give any indication whatsoever of why it's long, short or empty. Even combining the facts that 1. a large number of people here say they collect FPs for later use, and 2. the anecdotal evidence shows the FP line is quite a bit longer at 7pm than it was at 2pm, you still have to make a leap to define one as the cause of the other.

I am not arguing overall effect even so Chershire explained already that LP affect ride closing times at night and minimal or not it is extra money they pay every single day. I do not think they meant it to happen.

I however argue individual effect. Just like late FPers wants to provide best experience to their families, I do not want it to be at my expense. No matter how minimal or not, effect does exist and this is the whole point of this argument, since late FPers argue they affect nobody.

How the FP line get's affect is different than how the standby line gets affected.

You are correct that you are in front of her in line, as you would have been if you used the FP earlier. But because the FP line empties regularly, it limits any effect someone using a FP has on another person using a FP.

The first person in the FP line gets on the attraction first, the second person second, and so on. When the line empties, they take from the standby line.

Let's say everyone used their FPs the first possible minute, and it was 10 people who have Fastpasses in each minute - and the capacity is more than 10. If I'm 10th in the FP line, I'm the 10th person that gets on, and after me, they take from the standby line again.

Now say someone didn't use their FP earlier, and show up in my minute, right before me. That person is now 10th, and now I'm 11th. I'm affected - one person further back in line. But still, t, they take all 11 of us and then take from the standby line.

In the next minute, 10 more people show up in the FP line. How were they affected by the person in the previous minute, given that they already took everyone from the FP line and it was empty?

Answer: they weren't affected at all. That's why the effects were limited.

You are right, late FP do not affect on time FP much if at all, but again it affects stand by waiting times.

So your answer is that you DON'T know that anyone in front of you was ever there because of a late fastpass. Thanks for answering.

In fact, if you always use yours within the specified time, then it's safe to assume you've been in a fastpass line earlier in the day. If so, it's just as likely that your wait was SHORTER because others in your slot were waiting until later.

Not safe at all, I go in afternoon, so no, I do not benefit from empty seats or faster line at 11 AM.
As for my answer, as I said, no I do not know who is this horrible person affecting me now but does it change a thing?

 

[doconeill]

You are right, late FP do not affect on time FP much if at all, but again it affects stand by waiting times.

And full circle again...

The effect on the standby line later is negated by the effect it had earlier. Yes, individual perceptions of when someone thought they'd get on the attraction changes based on believe of the standby wait time indicator. But that indicator would have been different if the late FP users had instead been on time. In the grand scheme, it is zero-sum, and for the amount it actually affects any one individual by, it's not a big deal.