Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Sorry if I am being thick.

You are refering to standing in the standby line, correct? Who is the "you shall not pass" crowd? The FP users line? If so, it makes it sound like guests using stand by line are being victimized by those using FPs.

the link provided made a connection between this potential change being part of a much bigger change (NextGen) and that bigger change - I believe - is a move towards oblitering stand by queues.

the "you shall not pass" crowd are those that would require (as much as it is within their power) all members of a party to stand in a line rather than have, say, one person hold a spot for other members. And this "holding a spot" idea is the core of NextGen - again, IMO.

 

[joenan88]

IMO, it is the time of year you travel that this can be an issue for people....I love the fast pass system and utilize them the best way I can. I go during the busiest times of the year..Christmas week and Easter...my kids are in school...anyway, I pay a fortune to go over those weeks...I know I know it's my choice, BUT with the current way the fast passes work we are able to ride all the rides even though the parks are closed to capacity by 10am. When the parks are that crowded it can take 1/2 hour to cross the park....

 

[Wadecool]

I think the reason Next Gen will require enforcement is that instead of passes to a limited number of attractions each day (ie when your window opens), many people could have passes to nearly EVERY attraction each day, all arranged months ahead of time and probably based on some computer algorithm that has X number of people in and using Tomorrowland passes between, say 10 and 12 while Y number are in Frontierland at the same time -- and at noon, they'll basically be switching places... then switching places with groups in Fantasyland and Adventureland.

Given that the system will give more people more passes, it may rely on precise control over the movements of larger numbers of people.

Just speculation... but based on some of the things I've read in captured Space Lizard documents. Many Bothans died to bring us this information...

It could very well be written by the the same folks who wrote the algorithm that determines the BCS standings.

 

[Pixie Princess]

Sorry, it was semi-rhetorical for the "you late FP users have been ruining it and now Disney is putting an end to it" arguments.

Yes, this is apparently due to NextGen/X-Pass. But I still have yet to see any reason why X-Pass necessitates FP enforcement, with what little details of X-Pass are known or any of a number of scenarios I can think of.

I am starting to come up with some scenarios where they at least think they may need to enforce, at least to start. like there are allotted FP return times, and allotted X-Pass reservation times, and they are distinct (think, 10am-11am is for FPs, 11am-noon is for X-Pass, etc.)

This has been what I've been wondering. If this actually is going to happen, seems to me there must be something inheirent to the new system that can't be accounted for through math, or that certain logistical questions have come up that are necessitating the enforcement of the window now to determine what sort of adjustments need to be made prior to rollout of the other system.

Otherwise, the only other explanation that makes sense to me is that this is a plot by the Disney change management higher-ups to determine what the adoption curve will be for the new system. They leak a story to what the fan base would consider a credible source (b/c clearly having CMs tell you this at the turnsitles didn't go over to well), and then have their minions monitor the interwebs for reaction. (Hi minions! Hope you're have a good day!) They get a slew of data, never implement the change and the credible source chalks the story up to a rumor passed along by a well-meaning, but tragically misinformed insider. Everybody wins! Man, I love a good conspiracy theory!!

 

[Pixie Princess]

It could very well be written by the the same folks who wrote the algorithm that determines the BCS standings.

I think you may be on to something here!

 

[mom2rtk]

Given that the system will give more people more passes, it may rely on precise control over the movements of larger numbers of people.

Will it? Have we heard that bit of info?

The rides still have only X capacity a day. If they allow more passes, something has to give. I think they can only load so many people per day into the ride cars. HOW they get there at a given time matters little to the CM directing you to your car.

 

[Dolby1000]

"I cannot think of one benefit that changing (enforcing end times) will have If someone can point out a benefit, I'd be happy to hear it."

To keep you in the park, in the restuarants and shops. They don't want you hoarding fastpasses (and that is what some of you are doing), leaving the park (and taking your wallet with you) and returning later in they day only to ride rides and not shop and not eat. By enforcing the time they want you to extend your park time for all day, not just a portion of it. Remember, Disney is about separating your money from your wallet. Stiffly said, but truthful.

I've never been a fan of FP (yes, I use it, but I guess I am one of the stupid ones who actually uses it during the return time window), and on my last trip, now I know why. I arrived at MK around 3 in the afternoon. Space Mountain FP were gone, I got a FP for Splash Mountain for 9:30 - 10:30, and by the time I could get another FP, BTMM were gone, PP were gone, Dumbo were gone, and I forget what else, but most of them were gone.
So, I decided I had to do stand by. Well, stand by waits, by 7PM were out of whack. I went in the JC standby line that said 20 minutes. Well, an hour later I finally got to ride and now I know why, it was all those late arriving FP users who were coming through by the dozens. They weren't counted in when calculaing the stand by time because the stand by time had calculated that all of the 2PM returns, for example, had already come through. BTMM at least said 45 minutes, and that was accurate as BTMM uses two tracks, one dedicated to FP and dedicated to standby, so the line moved pretty regularly.

All of the standby queues in the evening were much longer because of late FP returns. The line for Splash Mountain said 30 minutes at 10:00 PM when I returned, but I am sure it was much longer. The number of FP people returning were far more than what was in that 10:00 PM window. I felt for those who were right at the point where the FP return met the standby queue and they looked annoyed as dozen upon dozen of FP riders were let by, and I bet many of those were well past the 10PM return time.

FP was designed for line smoothing throughout the day, I don't believe it was designed for people to stack them up and then go through them in a couple of hours in the evening.

For all you FP hoarders, and those lamenting how their touring plans our now ruined, what did you do before FP?

Nostaglia time, (feel free to ignore) our best trip to Disney was in 1999, before FP and well before ADR. We could walk into Epcot and eat at Rose and Crown, or Germany, or Italy with a same-day reservation, eat at Prime-Time or Sci-Fi Drive In by making a reservation when we walked into the park. We managed our day by standing in line, like everyone else. One line, for all customers, managed equally. We had a great trip. Did everything we wanted, ate everywhere we wanted, saw all the parades and shows and rides. And were successful, even without FP. No trip since has been as much fun (every trip is fun, but on degrees, just not as much fun). You could just be more spontaneous, which is really funny if you knew me and how much of a planner I actually am!.

IMHO, it just takes the fun out of it when I have to figure out where I want to eat 6 months in advance. I don't know what I'm having for dinner tomorrow (today is taken care of), much less 6 months from now. In the future, then, is Disney wanting me to plan what time I want to ride Soarin, or Star Tours 6 months in advance too?
Yes, been to Disney 5 or 6 times since 1999, and no trip has ever matched that magical week back in 1999. Now we eat outside the parks and only get snacks at the parks, we use FP, but we return at the specified times, and if we can't, then we don't get the FP until we can use it. The further down reservation road (Gen X system) Disney goes, IMHO, the more they take the fun out of the parks.
Not saying I won't go (where else can I ride Star Tours), but some of the fun has been taken out.

Dolby1000

 

[WillAustin]

I know it's been said already, but it's worth repeating. If they make this change, it's not because people were returning outside the window, it's because the new system requires stricter time management. It makes sense when viewed with the perspective that they will be adding the ability for some guests to get XPasses from home in advance.

They wouldn't have kept the current policy for years and years if it caused any problems.

 

[Raenstoirm]

Everyone is up in arms about this change that, lets face it, we all knew would come eventually.
What freaks me out is the the next gen system and the fact that fastpasses have to be controlled for this new system to work well. I really really do not want to have to book my fast passes 6 months out! We have hoppers (or APs depending on the year), so just because I have a dinner ressie at Brown Derby does not mean I have any idea what park I will be in that morning. We tend to get up and do whatever strikes us and get to the correct park for dinner.

This makes me nervous!!!

 

[chmurf]

Question:

When* this is implemented, if the lines are the same as they have been, will all the late FP naysayers say "I guess it really DIDN'T matter"?

*I'm going with "when" as opposed to "if" because of multiple reliable sources reporting it.

That's not the real issue. Lines WILL be the same when this rule is enforced.
And this will happen just because the number of guests who can ride in a day is capped.

What it has to do is a matter of opportunity and fairness.

Fact is that there is a limited number of FPs available each day. Once they're gone, they're gone.
If you are able to go to the parks early, chances are you will be able to ride your favorite ride with close to no wait, then you use your FP and ride again with minimal wait. Then you get another FP that you save for the afternoon.
When you come back to that ride, it will be at a time where the crowd is roughly the highest of the day, and you'll manage to ride again (for at least the 3rd time that day) with a limited wait ... again.
If 200 guests do the same (after their return window) depending on the ride's capacity, this will lengthen the line by tens of minutes.
Of course, enforcing the rule would not change your ability to stand in line again and this would keep the line as long, but at least this would not give you an "unfair advantage"

I know some will advocate "great and advanced planning" and that the late FP is a benefit of their careful planning and use of the system. But there lies a bit of hypocrisy.
If some agree that other "errands" might render the FP time window undoable, they also have to admit that the same things might delay other guests and not let them get FPs before they run out. ... So what now ? too bad for them ?
With the current FP system it all comes down to a silly rush to get FPs, some won't even use them at all (and even fewer among them will give them out to other guests but rather keep them as keepsakes)

If people enjoy being able to spend less time in line, then they might need to admit that other guests also would enjoy that too.
It should not be limited to a matter of who can get them faster. There is enough pushing and shoving as it is.

Here in Disneyland Paris, this rule is strictly enforced, and while this does not change the rides capacity, nor the length of lines, it certainly makes late afternoon rides more enjoyable.
Since FPs are limited, the return window will be limited to a fair amount of time before park closes. Meaning that no FPs will be allowed in for the last couple of hours, and lines tend to be more manageable then, whereas in WDW guests will want to use their FP before going out even though they're hours late.

In that respect, and having experienced both policies, here in DLRP and in WDW, I can tell you that the issue is really not in the length of queues, but it's on a much wider pictures.

And as a side note, there is no reason why a guest would be able to ride so many more times just because they ran to FP machines (when they're not supposed to anyway) when the next guest is denied access to FP (as they are out) ... both guests paid the same kind of money, why would one stock up on FPs just because they were in earlier than the next guest ?

The FP system as a whole is inefficient, so let's try to make it more fair. And enforcing the policy partly gets the job done.

The only way to get more people on rides is SR lines but it's another story

 

[Sandy321]

@Dolby Dumbo had FP?

what I wonder about - how many of those collected FP are NEVER used?

for instance, in the evening at Toy Story - the standby queue was outside, (we did not go - we were there for Osborn lights) and the FP line - empty. (a friend said there were no FP when he got there at noon)

like others are posting about - it doesnt change much, its the same as most theme parks that dont have FP - its just the one queue.

 

[RMulieri]

Reading some of these posts ..I feel like I need to grab my pitchfork and light my torch or something

 

[sjs314]

"I cannot think of one benefit that changing (enforcing end times) will have If someone can point out a benefit, I'd be happy to hear it."

To keep you in the park, in the restuarants and shops. They don't want you hoarding fastpasses (and that is what some of you are doing), leaving the park (and taking your wallet with you) and returning later in they day only to ride rides and not shop and not eat. By enforcing the time they want you to extend your park time for all day, not just a portion of it. Remember, Disney is about separating your money from your wallet. Stiffly said, but truthful.

I've never been a fan of FP (yes, I use it, but I guess I am one of the stupid ones who actually uses it during the return time window), and on my last trip, now I know why. I arrived at MK around 3 in the afternoon. Space Mountain FP were gone, I got a FP for Splash Mountain for 9:30 - 10:30, and by the time I could get another FP, BTMM were gone, PP were gone, Dumbo were gone, and I forget what else, but most of them were gone.
So, I decided I had to do stand by. Well, stand by waits, by 7PM were out of whack. I went in the JC standby line that said 20 minutes. Well, an hour later I finally got to ride and now I know why, it was all those late arriving FP users who were coming through by the dozens. They weren't counted in when calculaing the stand by time because the stand by time had calculated that all of the 2PM returns, for example, had already come through. BTMM at least said 45 minutes, and that was accurate as BTMM uses two tracks, one dedicated to FP and dedicated to standby, so the line moved pretty regularly.

All of the standby queues in the evening were much longer because of late FP returns. The line for Splash Mountain said 30 minutes at 10:00 PM when I returned, but I am sure it was much longer. The number of FP people returning were far more than what was in that 10:00 PM window. I felt for those who were right at the point where the FP return met the standby queue and they looked annoyed as dozen upon dozen of FP riders were let by, and I bet many of those were well past the 10PM return time.

FP was designed for line smoothing throughout the day, I don't believe it was designed for people to stack them up and then go through them in a couple of hours in the evening.

For all you FP hoarders, and those lamenting how their touring plans our now ruined, what did you do before FP?

Nostaglia time, (feel free to ignore) our best trip to Disney was in 1999, before FP and well before ADR. We could walk into Epcot and eat at Rose and Crown, or Germany, or Italy with a same-day reservation, eat at Prime-Time or Sci-Fi Drive In by making a reservation when we walked into the park. We managed our day by standing in line, like everyone else. One line, for all customers, managed equally. We had a great trip. Did everything we wanted, ate everywhere we wanted, saw all the parades and shows and rides. And were successful, even without FP. No trip since has been as much fun (every trip is fun, but on degrees, just not as much fun). You could just be more spontaneous, which is really funny if you knew me and how much of a planner I actually am!.

IMHO, it just takes the fun out of it when I have to figure out where I want to eat 6 months in advance. I don't know what I'm having for dinner tomorrow (today is taken care of), much less 6 months from now. In the future, then, is Disney wanting me to plan what time I want to ride Soarin, or Star Tours 6 months in advance too?
Yes, been to Disney 5 or 6 times since 1999, and no trip has ever matched that magical week back in 1999. Now we eat outside the parks and only get snacks at the parks, we use FP, but we return at the specified times, and if we can't, then we don't get the FP until we can use it. The further down reservation road (Gen X system) Disney goes, IMHO, the more they take the fun out of the parks.
Not saying I won't go (where else can I ride Star Tours), but some of the fun has been taken out.

Dolby1000

All my earlier trips were as you discribed, my first trip being in 1989. You went to Disney and expected to wait in line, and it was so nice to be able to walk around the parks, stop read the menu posted out side a restaurant then walk up to the podium and within minutes usually be seated for your meal.
Like you we did what we wanted when we wanted and saw and did everything having the times of our lives, waiting an hour or more for the fireworks or a parade or waiting in line for a ride was all part of the fun. Everything is so structured now even getting the Characters autographs, with the meet and greets, I preferred when you just "happened" to run into a character in the park, it was so much more special.

 

[Sandy321]

"I cannot think of one benefit that changing (enforcing end times) will have If someone can point out a benefit, I'd be happy to hear it."

To keep you in the park, in the restuarants and shops. They don't want you hoarding fastpasses (and that is what some of you are doing), leaving the park (and taking your wallet with you) and returning later in they day only to ride rides and not shop and not eat. By enforcing the time they want you to extend your park time for all day, not just a portion of it. Remember, Disney is about separating your money from your wallet. Stiffly said, but truthful.

I've never been a fan of FP (yes, I use it, but I guess I am one of the stupid ones who actually uses it during the return time window), and on my last trip, now I know why. I arrived at MK around 3 in the afternoon. Space Mountain FP were gone, I got a FP for Splash Mountain for 9:30 - 10:30, and by the time I could get another FP, BTMM were gone, PP were gone, Dumbo were gone, and I forget what else, but most of them were gone.
So, I decided I had to do stand by. Well, stand by waits, by 7PM were out of whack. I went in the JC standby line that said 20 minutes. Well, an hour later I finally got to ride and now I know why, it was all those late arriving FP users who were coming through by the dozens. They weren't counted in when calculaing the stand by time because the stand by time had calculated that all of the 2PM returns, for example, had already come through. BTMM at least said 45 minutes, and that was accurate as BTMM uses two tracks, one dedicated to FP and dedicated to standby, so the line moved pretty regularly.

All of the standby queues in the evening were much longer because of late FP returns. The line for Splash Mountain said 30 minutes at 10:00 PM when I returned, but I am sure it was much longer. The number of FP people returning were far more than what was in that 10:00 PM window. I felt for those who were right at the point where the FP return met the standby queue and they looked annoyed as dozen upon dozen of FP riders were let by, and I bet many of those were well past the 10PM return time.

FP was designed for line smoothing throughout the day, I don't believe it was designed for people to stack them up and then go through them in a couple of hours in the evening.

For all you FP hoarders, and those lamenting how their touring plans our now ruined, what did you do before FP?

Nostaglia time, (feel free to ignore) our best trip to Disney was in 1999, before FP and well before ADR. We could walk into Epcot and eat at Rose and Crown, or Germany, or Italy with a same-day reservation, eat at Prime-Time or Sci-Fi Drive In by making a reservation when we walked into the park. We managed our day by standing in line, like everyone else. One line, for all customers, managed equally. We had a great trip. Did everything we wanted, ate everywhere we wanted, saw all the parades and shows and rides. And were successful, even without FP. No trip since has been as much fun (every trip is fun, but on degrees, just not as much fun). You could just be more spontaneous, which is really funny if you knew me and how much of a planner I actually am!.

IMHO, it just takes the fun out of it when I have to figure out where I want to eat 6 months in advance. I don't know what I'm having for dinner tomorrow (today is taken care of), much less 6 months from now. In the future, then, is Disney wanting me to plan what time I want to ride Soarin, or Star Tours 6 months in advance too?
Yes, been to Disney 5 or 6 times since 1999, and no trip has ever matched that magical week back in 1999. Now we eat outside the parks and only get snacks at the parks, we use FP, but we return at the specified times, and if we can't, then we don't get the FP until we can use it. The further down reservation road (Gen X system) Disney goes, IMHO, the more they take the fun out of the parks.
Not saying I won't go (where else can I ride Star Tours), but some of the fun has been taken out.

Dolby1000

(I forgot to quote what I meant in my PP)

 

[doconeill]

I was just trying to find out if this was valid without wading through 200+ posts of speculation. But thanks for making it sound like I'm some sort of idiot

Sorry, absolutely not my intent.

 

[dgagnon519]

I liked that you could use it whenever, but understand the need to control it a little. It will never be cut and dry though, like another poster said. Things happen and it wouldn't be fasir to be punished by not being able to use it . Maybe the windo should be within an hour and not 15 min. No need for early entry I dont think.

 

[Kona65]

I look at this as just a number of changes on a long list that Disney has made or is making. Some of the changes or good, others not so good. We have found that we are starting to look at other places in the world (not Disney World) to spend our hard earned money. Will we stop going to WDW? No, but it won't be our primary vacation spot anymore.

 

[The 6 J's]

I didn't quote any post in particular so as not to make one person defensive but for the people saying they don't want NextGen to force them to plan out their rides X months in advance to coordinate with their ADRs and they want to maintain flexibility - you still have it. FP is not the only way to tour efficiently and nobody says you have to do it, now or in the future. Get there at or near RD and you can get a ton done. I can't imagine that is going to change much regardless of what happens with FP/NextGen. Want to sleep in? That's your choice too. A choice with consequences. We love to make RD but that means we can't stay up for late evenings. That's our choice. The point is you have a choice. This is the system, use it or don't. Why all the complaining?

 

[Jennasis]

Sorry, it was semi-rhetorical for the "you late FP users have been ruining it and now Disney is putting an end to it" arguments.

Gotcha. FWIW, while I have never used a late FP, I don't particularly have an issue with those who do. Maybe because I haven't gone during crowded times or ever have seen the FP line get longer than 10 minutes.

While I agree that using a FP after the window doesn't (apparently) affect the lines, what then is the benefit of FP at all if people can essentially get in the FP line whenever they want? Why not just have a central FP kiosk where you can get 1 passes per person every x number of hours or per ride and then use them however the person wants? Rhetorical question of course...the answer is that the overwhelming majority of folks will come back during the time stamped window. Otherwise we'd have a mob scene at the central FP machine every am and then the FP line at say TSMM would be an hour long every morning.

Like everything in life, there is no perfect solution that will make everyone happy. Unfortunately we will all just have to deal with whatever Disney decides.

 

[Emma's Dad]

I don't see the point in getting upset about this policy "enforcement". FP's clearly have a RETURN time window with which to use them. I think it's great and about time Disney finally started enforcing the return times and allow better queue management of the rides.