Fast Pass Return Time Enforcement

[Disney Dreams]

Yeah, I'm not feeling very good about all of this. I have three kids, and my middle child, 8 year old son, loses his mind if he's in line more than about 20 minutes.... Being able to use FastPass made our evenings enjoyable, if we couldn't (i.e. if AM FastPasses had to be used in the AM) it would make it so we'd effectively have half the time every day, as the evenings would be difficult enough that I suspect we wouldn't be able to handle more than a couple of hours plus an activity or something like that. With FastPass, we can alternate using FP with waiting in line in the evening, and that makes the whole thing a LOT easier to deal with. Especially in (hot) July!

I am not directing this specifically towards you, but this is exactly why I don't understand why everyone is all upset about this enforcement of the policy. There are very few rides, proportionately, that have FP. Those of you that are upset about this, do you only ride FP attractions? This change does not affect i-don't-know-what-but-a-large percentage of the rides in the Park. There are soooooo many things to enjoy that have nothing to do with using FP. With the correct use of FP, you can still alternate between using a FP, not, using a FP, not, and so on. That's what we do all the time.

- Dreams

 

[Hound 109]

I haven't read one post where anyone is upset.

I'm reading a discussion of FP time return enforcement.....(if it will go into effect here at DLR or not).....& how it might change our touring patterns.

 

[DLR29]

Granted, nothing has been confirmed and I'll believe all these rumors when a CM turns me away at a ride...

BUT, if this does, in fact, get enacted, I think it would severely decrease the advantage of park hopping. What I love about them not enforcing the FP return times is that I can grab a few DL FPs, not use them, hop over to DCA, grab a few DCA FPs and then come back to DL later in the afternoon/evening and use my earlier FPs. If they start enforcing the return time, I will be forced to stay in the same park unless my return time is multiple hours in the future.

 

[TinkFlies]

While I don't mind so much waiting in line while it's just me and my husband...adding children to the mix really negates any "magic" the queue line is supposed to have.

I appreciate the fastpasses for what they are. A time saver. A sanity saver when you have kids who don't understand WHY you are waiting, and waiting, and waiting... The fastpasses are helpful so that there is LESS of that waiting, and more riding, because let's face it. No 4 year old is going to see the magic while waiting in line to ride Pooh, or the Matterhorn, or Small World. They just know they are standing there, not moving very fast, staring at everyone's kneecaps (unless you are holding them, in which case your back will thank you for the shorter wait).

I'm here and even though my kid can't yet ride Indiana Jones even I don't need to enjoy the magic of the walk for over an hour.

I just recently learned you could come back at any time after the time on your FP and took full advantage of it last month. That being said I'm o.k. with them enforcing the rules. Some of the FP lines were still long which does defeat the point.

 

[skier_pete]

Those of you that are upset about this, do you only ride FP attractions?

I haven't read one post where anyone is upset.

Actually, I have to agree. I hear several places (Including the Podcast) where they say "lots of people are upset". I think "upset" is too strong a word. I think there's people that are disappointed that they will have to alter there touring strategy, but I don't see many here (or on the WDW boards) that are really angry or upset, like they are mad in the way that rising prices or poor food quality make them.

For me, the only thing that would upset me is if I didn't know about it, saved a whole bunch of FP for the evening, and then weren't allowed to use them. Which is why I've been urging (if anyone listens) that they be sure to make very public statements about this.

 

[Disney Dreams]

I haven't read one post where anyone is upset.

I'm reading a discussion of FP time return enforcement.....(if it will go into effect here at DLR or not).....& how it might change our touring patterns.

81 posts, 5 and a half pages and you pick one word of my post to pull apart and analyze will not actually addressing the topic at all?

Okay.........

IMO, people seem upset. And that's why I stated such. You don't read it that way. Cool. Back to the actual topic.

- Dreams

 

[VallCopen]

I personally am not going to let this ruin my trip to Disneyland but I will agree that it will be a change from our normal usage of the fastpass. I just hope Disney increases the fast pass return time and it would help if the wait times were more accurate, but maybe with people returning with their fastpass at the correct time the wait times will be more accurate too.

 

[Peace.love.mickey]

I wonder if they will "time" stamp rider swap!?!?!?

 

[cyclenut]

I really hope they DO start to enforce the return times. The free-for-all we have now isn't working very well. True, a lot of people read the ticket and abide by what it says, but the word is out and people have figured out the "hidden secrets" of when and how to get the most fastpasses possible. Most of us call it "gaming the system".

We all know that CMs are trained at how to be flexible in order to allow the guests to have the best experience possible. There are rules that are very strict (such as height restrictions for safety) and there are rules that are flexible (such as FP return times). It seems to me that Disney is a victim of it's own success with this particular area of flexibility.

I also agree that FP has ruined some of the elaborate queue design. Indiana Jones is a perfect example, and it isn't just a matter of going slower. They don't even route you to portions of the queue that are part of the experience. Take Haunted Mansion for example, if you use a FP, you skip all the graveyard stuff that is actually part of the ride experience.

That said, I don't want to do away with the FP altogether, I just think that the way it is working now, isn't really working very well. Take HM for example. They don't have the FP turned on all the time there (mostly just for HM Holiday). When we did Standby on FP days, the line moved much more slowly. However, when we went yesterday, the line moved quickly and even though it was longish, it really didn't feel bad because it kept moving.

Others have already very clearly stated what is wrong with the current system. In short, those who have stretched the original intent of the FP and used them as return tickets for whenever they want have really ruined the system for everyone else. Yes, they are allowed to and there is no telling if this "enforcement" will become a reality or not.

Now, I agree with HydroGuy, make the window a little bigger or shrink the lattitude that folks have from "whenever" to "within an hour".

For the record, I used the FP system successfully when it was first implemented, when the return times were enforced, at it worked great! We kept our dinner reservations, got other rides in and had a most excellent time. Can't be done that way now. People know they don't have to come back at the return time and gobble up all the FPs. If you are "in the area" the FP return window is way out of whack. In the beginning, it used to be pretty reasonable.

 

[DLR29]

I really hope they DO start to enforce the return times. The free-for-all we have now isn't working very well. True, a lot of people read the ticket and abide by what it says, but the word is out and people have figured out the "hidden secrets" of when and how to get the most fastpasses possible. Most of us call it "gaming the system".

We all know that CMs are trained at how to be flexible in order to allow the guests to have the best experience possible. There are rules that are very strict (such as height restrictions for safety) and there are rules that are flexible (such as FP return times). It seems to me that Disney is a victim of it's own success with this particular area of flexibility.

I also agree that FP has ruined some of the elaborate queue design. Indiana Jones is a perfect example, and it isn't just a matter of going slower. They don't even route you to portions of the queue that are part of the experience. Take Haunted Mansion for example, if you use a FP, you skip all the graveyard stuff that is actually part of the ride experience.

That said, I don't want to do away with the FP altogether, I just think that the way it is working now, isn't really working very well. Take HM for example. They don't have the FP turned on all the time there (mostly just for HM Holiday). When we did Standby on FP days, the line moved much more slowly. However, when we went yesterday, the line moved quickly and even though it was longish, it really didn't feel bad because it kept moving.

Others have already very clearly stated what is wrong with the current system. In short, those who have stretched the original intent of the FP and used them as return tickets for whenever they want have really ruined the system for everyone else. Yes, they are allowed to and there is no telling if this "enforcement" will become a reality or not.

Now, I agree with HydroGuy, make the window a little bigger or shrink the lattitude that folks have from "whenever" to "within an hour".

For the record, I used the FP system successfully when it was first implemented, when the return times were enforced, at it worked great! We kept our dinner reservations, got other rides in and had a most excellent time. Can't be done that way now. People know they don't have to come back at the return time and gobble up all the FPs. If you are "in the area" the FP return window is way out of whack. In the beginning, it used to be pretty reasonable.

I'm not sure, from your post, why you think that allowing others to come back with their FPs later have "ruined the system for everyone else". You certainly can take advantage of this flexible policy as well.

I also would say that we are coming at this issue from a biased perspective. I think, in general, we are overestimating the number of people who know that, currently, you can use your FP past its printed return time. Add to that the people who find out on accident by trying to return late and are surprised by the CM's flexibility, and I really don't think that that's a significant percentage of a given day's guests. We are overestimating because we are aware of the policy because we are on the DISboards.

Also, in regards to the flexibility, in training, CMs are taught the 4 fundamentals of Disney's customer service. They are safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency, in that order. So safety is certainly THE top priority of CMs, so, yes, they will enforce the safety rules. But courtesy is second, and OVER efficiency. I think that allowing guests to come back late with FPs is a clear example of this, and it would be a shame if they stopped doing it.

 

[Susie63]

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[Susie63]

Our first trip to DL was in 2010 and I spent about 6 months reading everything I could on these boards.So yes,I did take full advantage of the fast pass system and the late return time.
I walk with a cane and I am not very fast,so it worked really well for me.We did not park hop and really planned our days to minimize the amount of distance travelled. I tried every ride once and some only once
I was not aware that I could get a GAC and I really hope not to need one next year and using the fastpasses after the return window gives me a lot of flexibility in my day.
Even when I was in the fastpass line people were passing me.
I loved walking through the queues and I would miss out on a lot if I took the exit every time,but standing in line for an hour is not an option for me.
I love Disneyland and whatever happens...happens, but I just wanted to voice how I use the FP system as a disabled guest.

 

[kiwitravel]

It seems to me that enforcing the return times can only help the normal standby line to move quicker and will avoid the sometimes long waits in the FP line... Thats a good thing right??? Yes the return time needs to be wider (say two hours) and FP CMs should have a stamp that can be applied to FPs that can't be used because the ride is down during the return time so the FP can be used later...

Whilst I have used the FP strategy that we have all used, to my benefit, it is only successful due to most guests not knowing about it. I have no problem in DL enforcing that rule to the benefit of all....

I can't help but feel that the selfish attitudes of todays modern society is a significant reason the world is in the mess it is in... If people cared a little more about others and the big picture overall the world would be a better place... Sorry if that seems a little judgemental, I mean no offence...

 

[larina]

It seems to me that enforcing the return times can only help the normal standby line to move quicker and will avoid the sometimes long waits in the FP line... Thats a good thing right??? Yes the return time needs to be wider (say two hours) and FP CMs should have a stamp that can be applied to FPs that can't be used because the ride is down during the return time so the FP can be used later...

Whilst I have used the FP strategy that we have all used, to my benefit, it is only successful due to most guests not knowing about it. I have no problem in DL enforcing that rule to the benefit of all....

I can't help but feel that the selfish attitudes of todays modern society is a significant reason the world is in the mess it is in... If people cared a little more about others and the big picture overall the world would be a better place... Sorry if that seems a little judgemental, I mean no offence...

Beautifully said! I must admit, we told several people about the FP return time thing when we were there. I like to share my secrets like that. You know, in May I hadn't found you all yet and somebody told us about it. It is a great thing to know. But that said, I'm happy to give up the bonus for the good of all visitors. Frankly, and I've said this before, the traditionalist in me thinks it would probably be better if they DID enforce return times, but I sure like being in on the secret that they don't.

 

[larina]

It seems to me that enforcing the return times can only help the normal standby line to move quicker and will avoid the sometimes long waits in the FP line... Thats a good thing right??? Yes the return time needs to be wider (say two hours) and FP CMs should have a stamp that can be applied to FPs that can't be used because the ride is down during the return time so the FP can be used later...

Whilst I have used the FP strategy that we have all used, to my benefit, it is only successful due to most guests not knowing about it. I have no problem in DL enforcing that rule to the benefit of all....

I can't help but feel that the selfish attitudes of todays modern society is a significant reason the world is in the mess it is in... If people cared a little more about others and the big picture overall the world would be a better place... Sorry if that seems a little judgemental, I mean no offence...

Beautifully said! I must admit, we told several people about the FP return time thing when we were there. I like to share my secrets like that. You know, in May I hadn't found you all yet and somebody told us about it. It is a great thing to know. But that said, I'm happy to give up the bonus for the good of all visitors. Frankly, and I've said this before, the traditionalist in me thinks it would probably be better if they DID enforce return times, but I sure like being in on the secret that they don't.

 

[cyclenut]

I'm not sure, from your post, why you think that allowing others to come back with their FPs later have "ruined the system for everyone else". You certainly can take advantage of this flexible policy as well.

I also would say that we are coming at this issue from a biased perspective. I think, in general, we are overestimating the number of people who know that, currently, you can use your FP past its printed return time. Add to that the people who find out on accident by trying to return late and are surprised by the CM's flexibility, and I really don't think that that's a significant percentage of a given day's guests. We are overestimating because we are aware of the policy because we are on the DISboards.

Also, in regards to the flexibility, in training, CMs are taught the 4 fundamentals of Disney's customer service. They are safety, courtesy, show, and efficiency, in that order. So safety is certainly THE top priority of CMs, so, yes, they will enforce the safety rules. But courtesy is second, and OVER efficiency. I think that allowing guests to come back late with FPs is a clear example of this, and it would be a shame if they stopped doing it.

Here is what I mean. There are a limited number of FPs available for each time slot. If a person knows they can come back "whenever" then they don't have to pay attention to that and can just grab a fastpass. This pushes out the time window much faster and exhausts all the fastpasses much more quickly. Under the "old" system, many of the FP return times would be reasonably close to the time you retrieved your FP. You could make your way through the park methodically and when you got "near" Splash you could get a FP that had a return time within a couple of hours. That allowed you to stay "in the area" and take in a few non-FP rides until your FP window hit for Splash. Then you could ride Splash without a long FP line and then leave "the area" having taken in all the sites.

I prepared a multi-page guide a few years back based on this old system that worked excellent for several family friends. They used the "method" I described to get through both parks in three days during the summer and ride every ride and see every show. It worked.

Now, people go around and get as many FPs as they can using "runners" and don't worry aobut when they may finally arrive at the attraction.

 

[kiwitravel]

Frankly, and I've said this before, the traditionalist in me thinks it would probably be better if they DID enforce return times, but I sure like being in on the secret that they don't.

Yes I think that's where most of us are at... And as we have no direct control over it I think that way of looking at it is perfectly fine... However people should not get bent out of shape if DL decides to either tell everyone (by just making FPs return time as AFTER a certain time) or by enforcing the return times... To me that's when people are being selfish...

 

[DLR29]

Here is what I mean. There are a limited number of FPs available for each time slot. If a person knows they can come back "whenever" then they don't have to pay attention to that and can just grab a fastpass. This pushes out the time window much faster and exhausts all the fastpasses much more quickly. Under the "old" system, many of the FP return times would be reasonably close to the time you retrieved your FP. You could make your way through the park methodically and when you got "near" Splash you could get a FP that had a return time within a couple of hours. That allowed you to stay "in the area" and take in a few non-FP rides until your FP window hit for Splash. Then you could ride Splash without a long FP line and then leave "the area" having taken in all the sites.

I prepared a multi-page guide a few years back based on this old system that worked excellent for several family friends. They used the "method" I described to get through both parks in three days during the summer and ride every ride and see every show. It worked.

Now, people go around and get as many FPs as they can using "runners" and don't worry aobut when they may finally arrive at the attraction.

Ok that all makes sense and I see your point. But I still think that with the enforcement of the FP return time window, Space or Star Tours FPs would run out just as quickly. Also I can only think 4 FP attractions that tend to have FP return windows multiple hours out (Space, Indy, Star Tours, Soarin. Maybe Splash and GRR during the middle of a hot day) unless it happens to be a really busy day. With the "current" FP policies, I can walk up to the Big Thunder or Tower of Terror or even Haunted Mansion Holiday "areas", pick up a FP that is good within a couple hours and do your suggested strategy about seeing the surrounding area and then returning to the ride.

I still think that a majority of guests on any given day at DLR is a combination of 2 types of people:
a) Those who don't know how to use FP at all
b) Those who follow the FP rules already (returning when it says to)

And then a small minority of people, like us, know (or happen to find out accidentally) that CMs are currently lenient on FP return times. I'm saying that with a policy change, I don't think there are enough people who would be affected to change how quickly a ride runs out of FP (for those few rides that actually do).

 

[Melora]

For the people who don't want the rules enforced, I'm wondering if they remember the purpose for the fastpass in the first place?

It's so you don't have to wait in a long line. They give an allotted number of slots for the window for you to return so the stand by line can be shorter (since people will opt to return later) and the fastpass line will move quickly because there aren't a lot of people in it.

I realize the Disney has been lax about the return policy but that shouldn't be a blanket OK to take advantage of the system.

If everyone waits until when they feels like it to return (and if that happens to be all at once) then in all likelihood the fastpass line will be long and defeat the purpose of the fastpass in the first place.

 

[DLR29]

For the people who don't want the rules enforced, I'm wondering if they remember the purpose for the fastpass in the first place?

It's so you don't have to wait in a long line. They give an allotted number of slots for the window for you to return so the stand by line can be shorter (since people will opt to return later) and the fastpass line will move quickly because there aren't a lot of people in it.

I realize the Disney has been lax about the return policy but that shouldn't be a blanket OK to take advantage of the system.

If everyone waits until when they feels like it to return (and if that happens to be all at once) then in all likelihood the fastpass line will be long and defeat the purpose of the fastpass in the first place.

I know that your situation is hypothetical, but in reality this lax return policy works BECAUSE not everyone knows about it. It seems as though this new policy severely limits the small percentage of people who are "in the know" and could only slightly benefit regular guests. It may or may not benefit CMs more. That I do not know.

And you are right in that if this policy were to be enforced it would decrease the FP lines probably a marginal amount. That's the small benefit to normal guests. But for me, I'd rather have the flexibility in knowing that I can come back whenever and have a potentially slightly longer FP line.