Family adopts russian boy and then sends him back

[pigletgirl]

Well, if she is a nurse, doesn't this put her license in jeopardy?

All people should know going into an adoption that the child isn't going to be problem free. It isn't going to be all sweetness and light and this part of adoption often gets overshadowed.
If anything, hopefully this raises awareness about RAD and other mental illnesses.

 

[2RussianAngels]

I have a question for the posters that have adopted children from Russia. Were you advised by the adoption agency about attachment disorders before you adopted your child/children?

We adopted two children from Russia in 2003. We were ABSOLUTELY informed about the possibility of RAD, PTSD, Fetal Alcohol, etc. - to the point that it was scary. Tens of thousands of children have been adopted from Russia over the past 10-12 years and most are doing well. Our children are now 8.5 and 9.5. DS has ADHD (controlled with medication), is gifted academically and athletically. DD, who was a 2.7 lb preemie, has an IEP for deficits in her working memory and has to work hard in school, but is in all "regular" classes in school. She is an amazing ballerina. Are they perfect? No, but what human is.

It disgusts me that this woman would do this to a child. How could a nurse not know of resources? If all was going well in January, as they reported in their post-placement report, I find it hard to believe that she exhausted all resources. If he was a danger to himself or others, couldn't she have at the very least gotten him admitted to a psych unit on a 72 hour hold?

And to address another question, our Russian adoption, and all that I have ever heard about, are final in the Russian courtroom. Many people choose to re-finalize the adoption once they return to the states, but it is not required as it is with adoptions from some other countries.

 

[D&DDisney]

One problem with RAD is that sometimes the symptoms don't fully manifest until the child is in a family and "threatened" by attachment. The kids can be charming on meeting them initially, so the adoptive parents may not be aware of issues.

Yes, these children are superficially charming and look like nothing is wrong. This can go on for a few months - what therapists have called the "honeymoon period".
They will also make up stories and villifiy their parents (usually the mother) all in the name of stopping the bond. A bond to a RAD child is a threat. They view it as if someone takes over parenting me and tries to love me, I'm going to die. As strange as that may sound to everyone, it is truly how they feel.

I have a question for the posters that have adopted children from Russia. Were you advised by the adoption agency about attachment disorders before you adopted your child/children?

We didn't adopt from Russia but another Eastern European country and NOTHING was said to us about RAD. NOT ONE WORD. I didn't even know what it was when my son was diagnosed.

For everyone who is compairing this to "you can't send back a bio child so why would you do it to an adopted one", or a child w/ any other mental illness, you just have no idea how bizzarre and different non bonded children with co-morbid conditions can act. Living with them makes you do and think things you would NEVER have thought before.
No one wants to be your friend or your child's friend becaus of how he/she acts.
Family begins to turn away from you.
No one wants to babysit or give you respite time cuz no one can handle these children
Few school professionals, if any, want this kid in their class or in their care because of how they act.
Families with RAD children are almost forced to shut down and withdraw from society because of what's happening. We feel ashamed, wondering WHY we can't take care of our own children. We wonder what we're doing wrong.

For anyone who says THEY would never do or think of such a thing, I ask you to take a RAD child for 6 months or more, LOVE THEM and then give me a call and we'll talk.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Without knowing the specifics of what happened, I don't think that is a fair statement to make. This child might have harmed her other child or something along those lines.

Nope, still not OK.

There is no excuse that makes this valid. Even if she couldn't do it another day, she could have surrendered him to the state, or taken to a place where there are safe harbor laws (which I hate but which are better than THIS), and surrendered him in an E.R. attached to a hospital with a strong children's hospital. She could have opened a case on herself with CPS, or moved to a state with a better Medicaid system for children with special needs or . . .

Did she have great options? Probably not, and that sucks. I acknowledge that our country needs to do far far better by families with challenging kids, no matter how those challenging kids come to them.

But there are lines that you don't cross. It's not like he was standing there with a loaded gun pointed at her other child and she pushed him away. If you have the time and money to spend time finding an employee on the internet, drive across multiple state, buy an international airplane ticket etc . . . you have the time and money to do something else.

 

[hentob]

For anyone who says THEY would never do or think of such a thing, I ask you to take a RAD child for 6 months or more, LOVE THEM and then give me a call and we'll talk.

I know of two people with bio children that they had to put into foster care (or maybe it was a group home).

It sounds awful, but to know these people and what they went through, it was the only choice after years of torture.

One child (age 12) was a fire starter and would try to harm the parents. He was sent off when he spoke of having sex with his 3 year old sister Heartbreaking.

They tried for YEARS. Medication. Counselors. Retreats. They tried. It did not help. He got worse.

I feel badly for these people.

There is such a thing as a bad seed. Think of the people that molest, kill animals, and murder people, etc. They were once children.

I am thankful for my children and my calm life

 

[lemondog]

Nope, still not OK.

There is no excuse that makes this valid. Even if she couldn't do it another day, she could have surrendered him to the state, or taken to a place where there are safe harbor laws (which I hate but which are better than THIS), and surrendered him in an E.R. attached to a hospital with a strong children's hospital. She could have opened a case on herself with CPS, or moved to a state with a better Medicaid system for children with special needs or . . .

Did she have great options? Probably not, and that sucks. I acknowledge that our country needs to do far far better by families with challenging kids, no matter how those challenging kids come to them.

But there are lines that you don't cross. It's not like he was standing there with a loaded gun pointed at her other child and she pushed him away. If you have the time and money to spend time finding an employee on the internet, drive across multiple state, buy an international airplane ticket etc . . . you have the time and money to do something else.

Agreed. I don't care HOW bad the conditions were, you DO NOT put your child on a plane all alone and ship him away. Period!!! It amazes me that people are trying to justify what this woman did. I am sure it was a horrible situation BUT THERE ARE PLACES THAT HELP THESE KIDS!!! RIGHT HERE IN THE US!!! I have friends that have adopted 4 older kids from Russia and one of them has SERIOUS issues and had to be sent to this farm somewhere out west. She loves it there and this farm/ranch works intensively with these kids - in fact it specializes in internationally adopted children. Why did the woman not explore these options???? She only had the boy for a few months. She did NOTHING but decide she couldn't deal with it, and shipped him back. She didn't even give him a chance.

 

[DawnCt1]

Well, if she is a nurse, doesn't this put her license in jeopardy?

All people should know going into an adoption that the child isn't going to be problem free. It isn't going to be all sweetness and light and this part of adoption often gets overshadowed.
If anything, hopefully this raises awareness about RAD and other mental illnesses.

Why would it put her license in jeopardy? She hasn't done anything in her professional life nor is she a drug user, so why should this impact her ability to make a living?

 

[DawnCt1]

Agreed. I don't care HOW bad the conditions were, you DO NOT put your child on a plane all alone and ship him away. Period!!! It amazes me that people are trying to justify what this woman did. I am sure it was a horrible situation BUT THERE ARE PLACES THAT HELP THESE KIDS!!! RIGHT HERE IN THE US!!! I have friends that have adopted 4 older kids from Russia and one of them has SERIOUS issues and had to be sent to this farm somewhere out west. She loves it there and this farm/ranch works intensively with these kids - in fact it specializes in internationally adopted children. Why did the woman not explore these options???? She only had the boy for a few months. She did NOTHING but decide she couldn't deal with it, and shipped him back. She didn't even give him a chance.

There isn't always the help available that people presume there is. She may not have had the emotional or financial resources to access help even if it were available, and not all problems can be 'fixed'. She may not have done things the 'right way' but she made sure that the child arrived safely. Would you really want a woman who didn't love this child to parent this child? Being forced to keep a child that you have only known for three months, who you couldn't control, and who you felt presented a danger to yourself and other family members and who you didn't or couldn't love, is not a good situation for anyone, including the child.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

There isn't always the help available that people presume there is. She may not have had the emotional or financial resources to access help even if it were available, and not all problems can be 'fixed'. She may not have done things the 'right way' but she made sure that the child arrived safely. Would you really want a woman who didn't love this child to parent this child? Being forced to keep a child that you have only known for three months, who you couldn't control, and who you felt presented a danger to yourself and other family members and who you didn't or couldn't love, is not a good situation for anyone, including the child.

This child was an American citizen. He became one the minute he crossed into this country. He had exactly the same rights as your children (I'm assuming you're in the US, if not, I take this back) and mine.

Russia has far fewer resources for children with mental illness than the U.S., as well as some pretty barbaric ideas about caring for children with disabilities in general. The chances that this boy will get the help that he needs and deserves there are slim.

This child been with her a few months. Maybe that was long enough for her to know that she couldn't parent him. I get that. But it wasn't long enough for one to say that he couldn't be parented. I know RAD, I know how it works and in the early months it's pretty much impossible to tell the difference between a child who is struggling with making that initial attachment (fighting against it before giving in) and the child who never will. I don't fault her for disrupting, but keeping him in the U.S. while seeking support for him here, would have been infinitely better, and at least given him some hope.

The government needs to give a very clear message here that this choice was wrong, and part of doing that needs to be that the consequences need to be significantly more drastic than whatever they would have been for handing him over to CPS.

 

[mking624]

This child was an American citizen. He became one the minute he crossed into this country.

That is not necessarily true. With international adoption, there's a process you and the child have to go through for the child to be considered an American citizen. Many times, that process is not completed until they've already been living in the U.S. for a while. I have several friends who have adopted, including from Russia...none of their children were immediately considered citizens upon arrival into the U.S. Most of them were citizens after about a month here.

Anyway, back to your scheduled programming...just thought I'd make a note of that.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Why would it put her license in jeopardy? She hasn't done anything in her professional life nor is she a drug user, so why should this impact her ability to make a living?

I don't know about nursing license, but I do know that child abandonment, which she'll almost certainly be charged with, is a crime against children, and in my area almost every organization that serves children in any capacity will refuse to hire or maintain the employment of anyone with this on their record. Since every hospital in my region needs to be able and willing to accept children that come through their E.R. (even if they transfer them as soon as their stable), and the nearest "adult only" hospital still delivers babies and has them in the well baby nursery, I would assume that none of them would hire her or retain her as an employee.

In my opinion that is the way it should be.

 

[pppiglet]

It's not like he was standing there with a loaded gun pointed at her other child and she pushed him away.

NO...but he did say numerous times he was going to "burn the house down with all of them in it and kill them" and drew pictures showing this, and he tried to attack an Aunt with a statue. Who knew what else he was doing? I would be fearful too.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

That is not necessarily true. With international adoption, there's a process you and the child have to go through for the child to be considered an American citizen. Many times, that process is not completed until they've already been living in the U.S. for a while.

There are 2 visa processes for international adoption -- I forget the exact numbers of the visas. In one process the parents meet the child before the adoption is finalized in their home country. In that case the foreign adoption is considered valid and permanent in this country and the child is a citizen the second he steps foot on U.S. soil -- or maybe when he passes immigration in the airport, I'm not sure which. Many parents in that case do decide to readopt in the U.S. so that their kids can get English language birth certificates and adoption paperwork, but it is not required by law. This is the kind of adoption done in Russia, so this little boy would have been a U.S citizen.

The second visa process is for situations where the parents do not meet their child before it's finalized. Ethiopia is an example of this. The child goes through court and then after it's finalized the parents fly and pick them up. In that case there are additional hoops the family needs to jump through before the child gains U.S. citizenship. However, this is not the situation with this little boy.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

NO...but he did say numerous times he was going to "burn the house down with all of them in it and kill them" and drew pictures showing this, and he tried to attack an Aunt with a statue. Who knew what else he was doing? I would be fearful too.

I didn't say she shouldn't have been fearful. I've didn't say she shouldn't have disrupted the adoption. However, what I am saying is that sometimes you can justify bad decisions if they're made impulsively by someone under extreme stress. While she may have been under extreme stress, she didn't make the decision impulsively -- she took the time to research and arrange things. She could have used that time differently.

 

[lemondog]

That is not necessarily true. With international adoption, there's a process you and the child have to go through for the child to be considered an American citizen. Many times, that process is not completed until they've already been living in the U.S. for a while. I have several friends who have adopted, including from Russia...none of their children were immediately considered citizens upon arrival into the U.S. Most of them were citizens after about a month here.

Anyway, back to your scheduled programming...just thought I'd make a note of that.

Actually, ALL children adopted from Russia become American citizens the minute the plane touches down on American soil, because they travel in on a particular kind of Visa due to the adoption being finalized in Russia. I know this because my oldest child is from Russia.

 

[EMom]

Actually, ALL children adopted from Russia become American citizens the minute the plane touches down on American soil, because they travel in on a particular kind of Visa due to the adoption being finalized in Russia. I know this because my oldest child is from Russia.

True. The law changed around the beginning of 2001 (it was called The Child Citizenship Act or maybe The Adopted Child Citizenship Act) and children adopted internationally become US citizens as soon as their adoptions are final under the laws of the country they came from. In the case of Russia, adoptions are final while in Russia. You do not leave the oblast/state the child resides in until the child's adoption is final. Then you go to Moscow and the US Embassy grants you a special visa to take the child into the US. Upon entering the US, the child is automatically a US citizen. Our DD was adopted in 2000, before the law was passed, and it was applied to her retroactively, so she became a citizen the day the law took effect. So did thousands of other international adoptees.

 

[fkj2]

NO...but he did say numerous times he was going to "burn the house down with all of them in it and kill them" and drew pictures showing this, and he tried to attack an Aunt with a statue. Who knew what else he was doing? I would be fearful too.

I wouldn't say that anyone has tried to "justify" this woman's actions; I think some of us would like to hear the entire story before completely condeming her.

Why do people think nurses are all-knowing? Medicine is so complex today, nurses cannot possibly know everything everyone presumes they do. And mental health is so complex. I was shocked to discover that people are denied state coverage because the programs are tapped out. A client may receive Medicaid benefits one month and be kicked off the next.

I would be willing to bet this woman may have exhausted any personal time available from work. Many healthcare facilities chastize employees for taking their sick time--even though it is a benefit-and if you need additional days, you might be able to take them at your own expense. No work, no income.

One thought that's been impressed upon me is that "when someone has a plan," it's time to pay attention. That the child drew pictures of a consuming fire is, to me, a plan.

Again, the adoptive mother did not do the right thing, but until all the circumstances are known, I think it's premature to be so harsh.

 

[design_mom]

I believe it still works the same way. Its finalized in russia before the child can leave and then it has to be finalized in america when the child returns.

If your child enters the country on an IR-3 immigrant visa (which most Russian children do), citizenship is bestowed as soon as they enter the US. If they enter the country on an IR-4 immigrant visa, you need to refinalize the adoption in the US before citizenship is granted. (A few IR-4 visas are issued in Russia each year, but those are much more common in other countries where the adoption is finalized *before* the adoptive parents meet the child.)

We can barely afford to take care of the problems our current citizens have, let alone importing these problems from overseas. A lot of parents adopt these kids to give them a better life.

The adopted children are legal immigrants, and most of them are citizens. Do you feel the same way about *all* legal immigrants? We're not talking about people sneaking into the country here. What about people who know they're "carriers" for genetic ailments but choose to have children anyway, knowing their child might have a disease. Do you consider them a drain on our system too, because they "chose" to take that on?

I happen to argree and besides don't parents of adopted kids have the same resources available to them as parents of bio children do? In fact, they have another because they are able to send the child back (using proper channel) if things don't work out.

You are right about the first part: Adoptive parents have the same resources and responsibilities available to them as biological parents. The DO NOT have another option of "sending the child back" -- once the child is legally adopted, the process is the same as any parent who feels they can no longer care for their child.

I have a question for the posters that have adopted children from Russia. Were you advised by the adoption agency about attachment disorders before you adopted your child/children?

I have two children who were adopted from Russia (2001 and 2005). RAD was mentioned both times, but in very different ways. The first agency mentioned it in a "oh, yes it does happen, but it will never happen to you" sort of way. They were also big on "all these kids need is food and love." Thank goodness I'm a reader/researcher and knew that's not *all* they need. The agency we used for our second adoption had a very intensive parent-education program that included a lot of info on RAD, attachment, etc.

Well it could be that Russia does not recognize the dual citizenship either. As far as they are concerned he is Russian, end of story.

This is possible. I would like to take my children back to visit their birth country at some point. However, I'm not exactly sure how to do it. I have been told that Russia will not issue my children visas to enter the country because they are Russian citizens -- they should travel on their Russian passport. However, I have been told by US authorities that they *need* to enter Russia on their US passports, because if we were to need consular services, the US government would be powerless to help them if they entered the country on their Russian passports. If this lady had only had the boy for 6 months, I'm sure he still had a valid Russian passport (children's are good for 5 years) -- so he might not be able to get help from the US embassy.

There are 2 visa processes for international adoption -- I forget the exact numbers of the visas.

IR-3 and IR-4

Actually, ALL children adopted from Russia become American citizens the minute the plane touches down on American soil, because they travel in on a particular kind of Visa due to the adoption being finalized in Russia. I know this because my oldest child is from Russia.

This is true for MOST Russian adoptions, but there are still a few regions that only require one parent to travel. If *both* parents don't meet the child, the child will come into the US on an IR-4 visa and the adoption will need to be refinalized here.
----

This is a terrible, terrible story. I just cannot fathom how this lady thought this was the right way to handle this. If she was able to research on the internet to coordinate his travel, write the letter, etc. certainly she could have found information on resources and/or the "proper" process to go through to voluntarily relinquish her rights.

I honestly can see how adoption disruptions occur, especially if there are other children in the house. But -- regardless of the boy's behavior, this woman is an adult and should have known better!

The number of people who came up to me today (our adoptions are pretty well known around here) and gasped, "Oh my God, did you hear..." make me think that my kids are going to hear gossip about this. I sat them down tonight and we discussed what happened. Boy, that is *not* a conversation I wanted to have... but I figured it was better to discuss it than have some kid ask my children on the playground if we were planning to send them back.

 

[angwill]

I didn't read all the posts here and I don't think I would have handled it as the mother did but I have done foster care and have experienced children with severe mental issues. I will not judge because I can only imagine the issue with this child as I have read is common with children adopted from Russia.

I wonder if the mother feared for her life and the life of the neighbors, other children in the area etc. The mother said he had a hit list of people he wanted to kill. This is common with a FAS or attachment disorder child and some will kill if given the chance and not think twice. Would you want to live next door with your own small children to a child like this? To look out the window and see a child physically torture your child while enjoying it and wonder what is wrong with this child?

In Russian many mothers drink a lot while pregnant causing fetal alchohol syndrom which is horrible and effects the childs brain in ways you do not understand unless you have parented a child with it. In my opinion and from what I have read it is worse than a baby born addicted to drugs.

They also sometimes end up in orphanages where their needs are not met because there are too many babies and too little help. Some are never held or loved and worse yet they cry to get their needs met and when they never get their needs met they stop crying and learn to not trust people causing reactive attachment disorders. If a child can not feel anything for another human how can they care if they hurt another human?
They learn to manipulate and act like the sweetest child you ever met because that is what they learn gets them what they want and need. They can be sweet and nice for short periods of time and can fool others but for long periods spent with them you will see the damaged child.

I had a foster child with attachment disorder and possible FAS and I am here to tell you that unless you have parented and feared for your life and the life of others around you there is no way you can start to imagine what could have possibly been going on in the mind of this mother or any mother who parents such a child. Where I live there are no psychologists that could even begin to help heal such a child and there are very few in the US that I could even find and even then there are no guarantees a child will heal from such abuses.

That said every child deserves to be loved and taken care of but not all are capable of being raised in an environment where they can possibly hurt others. Sadly government agencies who don't and can't fully understand these things think they are doing the right thing by putting them in society and in families. The case workers and familys want from the bottom of their heart to help a child especially one so damaged but sadly sometimes all the love and good intentions in the world can't help some of these children.

 

[Holly]

I won't judge her...

Oh, but I will.


It doesn't matter to me if she is a nurse. It doesn't matter to me if she had good intentions. It doesn't matter to me, not one bit, that she may have been misled about his issues.

I don't care if he played with fire, threw things at the family, or threatened to kill them all.

She never once sought help or brought him, or herself, to a psychologist.

If she couldn't handle his issues there are MANY families and agencies here that could have helped.

The fact that she threw a 7 year old on a plane back to Russia with a note, further victimizing and damaging him, is so appalling and infuriating.

This woman should be thrown in jail.

She should be charged with risk of injury to a minor and also with some type of cruelty.