Factoring in School and Kids for your DVC decisions

[lovin'fl]

I wandered in here and I am surprised at some of what I have read. I'm a new parent I just assumed I'd take my son out for a week or so here and there for vacation. I'm in Canada so it may be a lot more stringent in some states in the US, I missed a ton of school for vacations and illness and had no issue at all being "behind" etc. Maybe the curriculum has become more intense.

There are a few factors. One is the high level math is pushed earlier than it was years ago. Kids are taking geometry in middle school now. I was a freshman in HS when I took it and that was a new program (taking Algebra in 8th grade and Geometry in 9th...my group was some of the first and I am 46). Then there is all the mandatory state testing you can't miss. And in HS now there are tons of AP (advanced placement) classes which you then take a test at end of to see if you get college credit. When I was in school there was a few of these and now there are like dozens and all through HS. My twins are graduating college a semester early because of these. Their good friend graduated a whole year early because of them.

 

[crisi]

There are a few factors. One is the high level math is pushed earlier than it was years ago. Kids are taking geometry in middle school now. I think I was a freshman in HS when I took it and that was a new program (taking Algebra in 8th grade and Geometry in 9th...my group was some of the first and I am 46). Then there is all the mandatory state testing you can't miss. And in HS now there are tons of AP (advanced placement) classes which you then take a test at end of to see if you get college credit. When I was in school there was a few of these and now there are like dozens and all through HS. My twins are graduating college a semester early because of these. Their good friend graduated a whole year early because of them.

I had a friend whose daughter graduated from college with an associates two weeks before she graduated from high school. Most of my own daughter's friends entered school as Sophomores - several as Juniors. Students were offered DifEq as Seniors and there were several students who were in math classes at the University of Minnesota having completed all the math offered in high school.

 

[crisi]

Not sure where those stats are coming from, but in general a near 50% acceptance rate isn't really what I would consider "ultra competitive". You basically need grades above 70 - 80% to qualify. A lot of kids who don't qualify will enter in a program with lower grade requirement, and simply transfer programs after a year. I've also never heard of anyone caring (again, outside of very niche programs) about extra curriculars or stuff like that as part of an admissions process. These are essentially the "top" schools in the country too. In my personal experience, I've never heard of someone being "wowed" that you have a bachelors degree from McGill (other than current students), like they would be if you said you had a degree from Harvard. Once you get out into the real world, a degree is a degree as long as its in the correct field. So I personally don't feel like there is that much pressure to get into a "top" school for your bachelor's degree.

The honest truth is that Harvard is so competitive that few people get in - even kids with perfect grades and great test scores don't make the cut.

But a degree isn't a degree in the real world. My husband's college has opened doors. People respect his school - and it merely a top 100 school, not a top 10. The difference between a top 100 school in the U.S. and a not top 500 school is known and acknowledged - and if you don't believe me, you should check the education of the corporate Directors and Managers I've worked with over the years, compared to the people who never get promoted. There is a difference between the University of Minnesota and St. Cloud State - for the first ten years of your career.

Most importantly, in kindergarten you don't know if your kid will get grades above 80%. Maybe they slack off. Maybe they have health problems or bullying. Maybe they end up with a teacher who hates them or run into an Algebra block in 10th grade. Maybe they decide a band or girlfriend or hockey is more important. And the cut off is 80% for them to get into the school they want to - and they have a 78%. And maybe, if you hadn't told them by your actions that school wasn't all that important, they'd be at McGill (and I'm impressed by McGill - I'm a 50 year old American who has been a hiring manager - I'll take McGill over North Dakota State - if all other things are equal).

 

[CanadaDisney05]

But a degree isn't a degree in the real world. My husband's college has opened doors. People respect his school - and it merely a top 100 school, not a top 10. The difference between a top 100 school in the U.S. and a not top 500 school is known and acknowledged - and if you don't believe me, you should check the education of the corporate Directors and Managers I've worked with over the years, compared to the people who never get promoted. There is a difference between the University of Minnesota and St. Cloud State - for the first ten years of your career.

That is really the point I am making. It's a bit of a cultural difference. In the US, the school prestige is quite important. In Canada, maybe it means more than zero, but it's usually pretty low down on the list of criteria for prospective employers. This is especially true when it comes to a bachelor's degree.

Most importantly, in kindergarten you don't know if your kid will get grades above 80%. Maybe they slack off. Maybe they have health problems or bullying. Maybe they end up with a teacher who hates them or run into an Algebra block in 10th grade. Maybe they decide a band or girlfriend or hockey is more important. And the cut off is 80% for them to get into the school they want to - and they have a 78%. And maybe, if you hadn't told them by your actions that school wasn't all that important, they'd be at McGill (and I'm impressed by McGill - I'm a 50 year old American who has been a hiring manager - I'll take McGill over North Dakota State - if all other things are equal).

I think your misinterpreting what I am saying. In no way am I suggesting that school is not important. I personally have a bachelor's degree from one of those schools on your list, and a professional designation. My schooling is a big factor in where I am today. What I am suggesting (again, perhaps it's a bit of a cultural difference), is that missing a week of school in grade 10 is hardly going to matter when your 25, 35, or 45. IMO, the domino affect that would have to happen to have a material impact on your life has an extremely low probability of occurring.

I happen to see some real benefits to pulling your kids out of school once a year for a trip

1) Alleviates the pressure. I'm not a psychologist, but I would expect that putting that kind of pressure on kids at that stage in their life, where missing a couple of days of school can completely derail their hopes and dreams is unhealthy.

2) Adaptability. Teaches kids how adapt to high pressure situations. Of course, missing school and being behind your peers is going to be difficult. But kids need to learn how to adapt to these types of situations. When they get back home, it may require a bit of extra work, and some self learning, but catching up is doable (especially at high school level). If they struggle this much with catching up at that age, they are going to be in for a rude awakening by the time they get to University.

3) Work/Life Balance. Teach kids to have some balance in their life. Work is important. But so are family, friends, and hobbies.

4) Create memories and instill tradition. You only get one shot at this thing. Don't be afraid to enjoy it. Teach your kids not to be afraid to enjoy it too. You never know what tomorrow will bring. Maybe one of you will not be around to go on that big vacation later on.

At the end of the day, it's about balance. But I digress. I think we're going off on a bit of a tangent here

 

[crisi]

And what I'm saying is that, having just gone through high school with two kids, that domino effect makes a big difference in some number of cases - but you can't know if your kid is going to be one of those cases. Especially when they are really young. So why risk it? There will always be some kids on the border - between getting into Harvard and not. Between graduating from high school and not. Between getting the $30k a year scholarship and getting the $15k a year one. Between getting the job and being the second choice.

Kids get plenty of work life balance. You can instill tradition and memories when they don't have school - heck you don't even need to travel to do that. Kids can't catch up if there are no resources to catch up - if you can't make up tests for an unexcused absence (which are what vacations are in many districts in the U.S.) And yes, the pressure is something, but they will miss days - they will be sick. And the school provides plenty of days off for them to take off. Its much higher pressure for them to try and figure out molecular weights by themselves because they missed that day in Chem than to take them on vacation.

Pulling them out of school for Disney is a risk you just don't need to take.

 

[clm10308]

I’m a teacher who for many years only got 3 person days each school year, so we did not take off school days for our many trips to Disney. It never seemed that bad to me. With strategic planning and use of Fast Passes, we always had fun. I think it helped that as a DVC member we knew we would be back many times, so there was no pressure to try to “do it all” every visit. We try to make sure to do 1 or 2 new things each visit, and if we miss a show our ride one trip, we can do it next time.

I have gone at Thanksgiving, over Christmas Day twice,Right after New Years, ruight after school is out in summer and, even over 4th of July. July was the worst because it is just soooo hot and humid then, but as the kids get older we love the days when the parks are open really late. There is nothing quite like MK at Christmas time at 2:00am when the place is practically empty.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

And what I'm saying is that, having just gone through high school with two kids, that domino effect makes a big difference in some number of cases - but you can't know if your kid is going to be one of those cases. Especially when they are really young. So why risk it? There will always be some kids on the border - between getting into Harvard and not. Between graduating from high school and not. Between getting the $30k a year scholarship and getting the $15k a year one. Between getting the job and being the second choice.

Kids get plenty of work life balance. You can instill tradition and memories when they don't have school - heck you don't even need to travel to do that. Kids can't catch up if there are no resources to catch up - if you can't make up tests for an unexcused absence (which are what vacations are in many districts in the U.S.) And yes, the pressure is something, but they will miss days - they will be sick. And the school provides plenty of days off for them to take off. Its much higher pressure for them to try and figure out molecular weights by themselves because they missed that day in Chem than to take them on vacation.

Pulling them out of school for Disney is a risk you just don't need to take.

to each there own

 

[Brian Noble]

I was wondering if other parents could share booking only during school "off" days or if there are ideas and ways around this that I am not aware of.

Our two are now both in college. When they were in the house, we limited our vacations to times when they were out of school---and, as high school students, when they did not have significant sports/band/etc. commitments. We figured that there were something like 15 weeks of the 52 when they were not in school, and we could find ample time to vacation then---either to Disney, or to somewhere else, as the majority of our vacations were. We tend to be gone for a full week, sometimes two if we are going far enough (Europe, Hawaii, Alaska.) Were things a little more expensive/crowded then? Yes, I suppose so, but not unbearably so.

As for tradition, work/life balance, etc.: we took 3 weeks of vacation most years, one for our mid-winter week off, and two sometime during the summer. Some years were four, a few years were only two. But vacations were a big part of their experience growing up, and I don't feel like they were shorted on that front at all.

As for Disney: We've done most of the "bad" crowd weeks, including Easter, Christmas, peak summer, President's Week, and Mardi Gras (those last two sometimes the same week). We always had a great time on each and every trip.

 

[pineapplepalms]

It's a bit of a cultural difference. In the US, the school prestige is quite important. In Canada, maybe it means more than zero, but it's usually pretty low down on the list of criteria for prospective employers. This is especially true when it comes to a bachelor's degree.

I think there really is a big cultural difference if that's the case. For my first full-time job, they would only consider resumes that included a degree from one of the top maybe ten or so universities, otherwise you wouldn't even get an interview. I know there are many other companies that operate the same way. Where you went to college can absolutely make a huge difference in my experience. The acceptance rate has dropped from double to single digits since I went to school, and it's just way more competitive now than it was when we were applying, not to mention all the rules around attendance and time commitments due to activities/sports.

Personally, we prioritize education and I feel like there are more than enough vacation days during the year to travel without having to pull my kids out of school once they're older. They will still have plenty of opportunities for fun, balance, hobbies, etc. and I'm not overly concerned about it because we're aware of it and will work on providing that environment for them.

Ultimately, we're all just going to have to make our own decisions regarding our kids and their education, and that's okay. Everyone's school system is different, everyone's kids are different, everyone's cultural and financial backgrounds are different, and everyone's priorities are different.

 

[babesboo99]

We always take our kids out of school we usually go the end of October into November. The teachers always said let them travel its good to learn about traveling and they can write an essay about what they did. Now they are a little older and we still take them out the teachers have no problems with this we have been lucky. they give them a sheet of work a day about 2 weeks before we leave and they do the work so they dont miss anything. the teachers say lets do it this way so they can have an relaxing vacation no need to stress them out.

 

[montrealdisneylovers]

I am so stunned by this thread.

We always prioritized education with high expectations from both our daughters. Grades were extremely important and we always stayed on top of them with regards to homework etc. Being from Quebec, it’s extremely important for anglophones to be bilingual so we sent our girls to French immersion elementary and high school. Was it easy, no, but they were excellent students and worked hard.

Having said that, we took them to Florida every year for New Year’s and always extended the vacation by a week. They missed the first week back in January every year and had to really hit the floor running when they got back. We were lucky that the schools did not allow for exams or big projects to be due the week before or the week after the break. The girls brought their books with them, kept in touch with classmates and learned much of the material on their own. They spent about an hour or two a day working on vacation and extra hours every evening for the first week back. I believe this helped to make them more independent learners.

The eldest got her bachelors degree from McGill University and is now a high school math, science and French teacher. The youngest is at University of Toronto in medicine. We all look back with fond memories on our trips away.

On a side note, I took my daughters to Target on one of our trips. They were maybe 10 and 12 at the time. The cashier questioned them as to why they weren’t in school. They replied that they were on vacation. The cashier looked at me and said “That’s truancy. I could report you!” I told her that it’s fine, we are from Quebec. She asked me where that was?? After a brief geography lesson, I felt like saying that she might have been better off missing a bit of school herself and traveling a bit more but I bit my tongue!!

 

[lovin'fl]

My DH didn't go to a top 100 college (166 on website I looked at today) and he is in an advanced professional career and doing very well. Where his degree was from never mattered. And where he works #29 is right down the road and #10 as well. They get a lot of hires from #29. But he got the job from school #166. This is on a list I looked up, not sure if it's a legit list. But I know #10 and #29 are top schools.

Also depends on career. Nurses and teachers, for example, are in high demand so I think you can get a degree from school #400 and be just fine. I have a relative who got a teaching degree from a school that didn't make the list I looked at and there are 399 schools on that list. He is a teacher in one of the highest paying counties in the US (top 10).

 

[Deb & Bill]

Our son was the one who told us that we couldn't go on long vacations during the school year because he always had a hard time catching back up. We would tend to go the day after school let out for summer for about ten nights or early January because my husband did marathons back then and wanted to run the Disney marathon. Our son missed a little school on one marathon trip and he cried when he got back to school because he didn't understand what they were doing in school. That was the last marathon trip for him and I (husband went with his friend) until he was in college and didn't start back to school until right after the marathon. By this time he was in Cross Country and was running, too. He graduated with a degree in Horticulture from LSU and is working on a Masters in Landscape Architecture at FIU.

 

[summerw]

I would definitely check with parents who have kids in the junior high and high school your kids will attend. After that you won't really know what your kid can handle until you get there. We took DS10 out for a week last month and multiple people asked me if I home school and were shocked I had taken him out.

To think that your child's entire life, job, college, education all balance on a week of vacation seems disproportionate to me. That's so much pressure to put on them. If one week is so important it could derail everything they've worked for, they must be terrified of making an actual mistake.

Decide what's best for your kid academically and activity-wise and then don't worry what other people say. And I mean no disrespect to anyone who does not believe in taking their kids out. We should all follow our own beliefs.

 

[Jenniebee]

To think that your child's entire life, job, college, education all balance on a week of vacation seems disproportionate to me. That's so much pressure to put on them. If one week is so important it could derail everything they've worked for, they must be terrified of making an actual mistake.

Agreed. It is much less about the long term implications and much more about your child's here and now at the time it happens. Ex. if he has a game and all his teammates and friends are going to be there and his coach is expecting him to be there he may feel strongly he does not want to miss it. If the orientation night is that week he may feel like this is something crucial he wants to attend.
My daughters geometry class is really fast paced, she does not want to miss a few days worth of lessons and then be behind. It's not about college, it's about not falling behind now, this week, this month. It's important to her, and I think that is great.

When you have a kindergartner it's hard to imagine that they will have a feeling about school and their social life that is their own, and that they may push back on you about it. I guess parents think they will just put their foot down and say this is when we are going and that's that, but then your kid is unhappy and conflicted about going to Disney... sooo... you have to cross that bridge when you get there. Just make the best decision you can right now and try to stay flexible, your family needs will change, and then change again.

Right now I have a High Schooler and Middle schooler so I am sticking with summers and maybe spring break. But then I figure when they are in college we will have a long Christmas break that goes into the whole beginning of January to travel, then when they are out of college, as young adults, who knows! All I know is I will be going. Whoever wants to come with me and when is yet to be seen. LOL

 

[_auroraborealis_]

It is much less about the long term implications and much more about your child's here and now at the time it happens. Ex. if he has a game and all his teammates and friends are going to be there and his coach is expecting him to be there he may feel strongly he does not want to miss it. If the orientation night is that week he may feel like this is something crucial he wants to attend.

I would add that with some kids, this gets more pronounced as years go by. You're 15, you've been to Disney at least 10 times, it's a lot easier to want what you want in your social life, or being able to play ball, or whatever.

 

[ChandraM]

So much probably depends on the individual kids.

This! When my kids were younger I was of the opinion that missing a few days of school wasn't a big deal in the overall scheme of things. I would still say that about one of my kids now because he is very focused and self-motivated. My other son has had a hard enough time keeping up with things on his own when he IS in school. He's always been smart, but we didn't realize he'd have these problems with organizational skills until he was in at least 3rd grade.

 

[bumbershoot]

Today we're studying the physics of rollercoasters!

As a homeschooler that’s the sort of thing I do, too. I still remember the unit study on Sint Maarten vs St Martin we did in preparation for a cruise.

Our son is too young to be patient and wait 100 minutes for a ride that lasts 30 seconds.

So many things were learned at Disney. Aka disneyschooling. At 4 my son started learning to budget because of the “free birthday” promo during one of the two Year is a Million Dreams. We had APs, so he got a gift card in the amount of a day pass, and for the first time he wanted to get the biggest bang for his buck.

He leaned how days pass with out countdown chains, and how calendars work.

He learned to stand in line politely.

He leaned that good things sometimes come at the end of longer lines.

And he learned how to use fast passes.

As a PP mentioned, "C's get degrees", but shooting for mediocrity isn't really a lesson that we're interested in conveying either, in addition to the above.

C is average, not mediocre.

Texas has compulsory education laws on the books. I could get called to court to answer to misdemeanor charges and have to pay civil fines if they exceed a certain number of unexcused days. Strangely enough I could un-enroll my kids from school, go on vacation for 2 weeks, and re-enroll them and that's perfectly legal.

All states have compulsory education laws. Texas is just more rude about it.

However, Texas is a state that shows clearly that it’s not concern about education, but about money from butts in seats. If it were about education, they wouldn’t allow you to homeschool for a couple weeks then come back. They allow that because once you’re off their books it’s a different money situation.

TX does everyone a favor by really highlighting what the concern is.

You guys have been so very helpful, thank you so much. We really had no idea. When we grew up in the 1980's, things were MUCH different. We had a feeling that we couldn't pull him out but I just wanted to see, just in case. So summertime, it is!

You’re hearing from people all over the country and Canada. Don’t go by that. Talk to people in your school district. They are the ones who know how your schools work.

 

[bumbershoot]

I would add that with some kids, this gets more pronounced as years go by. You're 15, you've been to Disney at least 10 times, it's a lot easier to want what you want in your social life, or being able to play ball, or whatever.

That’s what my son is doing now. 15, in a pre-professional ballet school, and learning Don Q and the Snow King role for the future is far more important than riding space mountain. Again.

He hasn’t been in a WDW park since 2015. I’m finally getting him out there for 3 days at Princess. I’m so excited!

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Agreed. It is much less about the long term implications and much more about your child's here and now at the time it happens. Ex. if he has a game and all his teammates and friends are going to be there and his coach is expecting him to be there he may feel strongly he does not want to miss it. If the orientation night is that week he may feel like this is something crucial he wants to attend.
My daughters geometry class is really fast paced, she does not want to miss a few days worth of lessons and then be behind. It's not about college, it's about not falling behind now, this week, this month. It's important to her, and I think that is great.

I think this is true. When your buying into DVC you can have a general idea of what time of year your going to travel, but your not going to be able to predict the exact dates for every trip for the next 30 years. There may be a 5 to 8 year gap in there when you have to travel at "peak times" because of other priorities (whatever they may be). I think I've made my stance known on here that I don't feel that missing a week of school when your 15 is that big of a deal, but that's from my perspective, not my kid's. Of course when they are old enough to understand the situation, you can take their input when planning.

The one thing that I haven't seen mentioned in here is that sometimes parent's don't have the flexibility to just go whenever it is convenient for the kids. A lot of industries are seasonal, so parents can't just take time off in the Summer or over Xmas. Your work schedule may be limited to only certain times of the year. It's up to you to make that decision whether your kid's priorities are justify skipping vacation that year or not. Of course, you can always leave the kids at home or with the grandparents.

At the end of the day, there's no right answer or wrong answer. It's not even a single decision. It's many individual decisions over the life of the contract that have to be contemplated individually.