Extra Fastpasses: A Case Study

[OtherScott]

There could also be an unfortunate side effect of people booking shorter trips because of an increased number of FP per day. If you tell people they can book 4 or 5 FP in advance at the MK, they may be more willing to cut an extra MK day, for example.

Basically, IMO if FP+ alone is enough of a "discount" for booking, people would likely book for a much lesser discount than free dining or 30-35% as well. I don't see them in the same ballpark.

yep

 

[jimmysmom74]

Had they ever done that before? If monetizing FPs was a goal, simple coding of then-current RFID cards could have decreased wait times for any segment of guest they chose.

If you believe that it did not cross Disney Execs' minds to put a $ value on FP+, you are very naive(which I know all us Disers are not). Disney is the only theme park, that I know of, that gives Fps or express access for free. And if the backlash wasn't there...who knows. But again, I am very happy with the decisions they have made, and hope to have my touring style be back to normal in June. Not looking to battle...I can see all sides of this argument.

 

[OtherScott]

If you believe that it did not cross Disney Execs' minds to put a $ value on FP+, you are very naive

I believe it crosses their minds daily. Point was they hadn't yet, and if this was just about cash, simple coding of KTTW cards is all that's needed.

 

[clsteve]

It would be trivial for them to give these guests an extra FP. They planned for it, and it's likely in the software waiting to be turned on.
And with the seasonal provision noted, they can even decide if they're going to hand out extra passes based on time of year. So in the busy summer months you get three, but in the fall, they may offer resort guests four.

I think they were smart and built it to respond to needs quickly Given how fast the turnaround was between Tom's announcement and when they rolled it out, they were already thinking about ways to improve the experience.

Whoa..!!!

Let's slow down here a bit.There's no easy to this right now. Let's not forget that this is a Project years behind schedule and 3 to 4 times over budget. Plus, they're still dropping Production Data and just had a major outage that put the whole kit-and-kaboodle out of business both in-Park and on-line for several hours. That outage is definitely keeping them up at night, as should the data issues that pop up after every update.

They're still playing serious catch-up on the Rollout Schedule and there's still more than a hint of "Executive Acceleration" to it. Low hanging fruit like Time-in-Park to show increased guest spend is all they're going to be able to handle for awhile.

 

[jade1]

I think it's hard to imagine FP+ being used in place of significant discounts if the discounts are necessary. Is an extra FP+ or two a day really going to make people want to pay a higher price like free dining does if they wouldn't consider it otherwise? I personally don't think so. At best I think it could maybe bump people up from value to moderate or moderate to deluxe if there were a significant difference between the levels. I would personally view it more like a bonus than an incentive, kind of like the free Memory Maker promo.

There's also the difference in that 30% off or free dining gives you tangible savings. I won't get into the is free dining really free, but there's no question that you can figure out the dollar amount you saved, or what it's worth. FP+ is subjective (unless they start directly pricing it), so the value can't be determined in a concrete "here's why this is a good deal" kind of way.

There could also be an unfortunate side effect of people booking shorter trips because of an increased number of FP per day. If you tell people they can book 4 or 5 FP in advance at the MK, they may be more willing to cut an extra MK day, for example.

Basically, IMO if FP+ alone is enough of a "discount" for booking, people would likely book for a much lesser discount than free dining or 30-35% as well. I don't see them in the same ballpark.

Yea could be right-maybe they abandoned it for your reasons.

 

[jimmysmom74]

I believe it crosses their minds daily. Point was they hadn't yet, and if this was just about cash, simple coding of KTTW cards is all that's needed.

Of course! They could have done this, but the MDE system has a whole lot more designed to it than just FP+. All I was saying, is that until the last three months played out rather poorly for them, they made a good choice to spread the rest of the FP+s across the board to all. Which I think was a smart, consumer friendly approach to solving a growing PR problem. If things went differently the last 3 months and everyone sent their surveys back with "Thank you for my 3 FP+, that's all I needed" things might have went very differently.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Think about what Disney could do. They desperately want to get rid of discounts. But they need something of a high perceived value to be able to replace those discounts. What do you do?

If it's me (and I can only speak for me), before offering any kind of incentive like free dining or room discounts, I would offer something like an additional FP selection to AP holders, to encourage them to make another trip. Then maybe do the same for DVC members.

They could do that stuff, but they're not. Now that they are letting everyone have at the remaining FPs after the prebooked, it doesn't seem they are ever going to go that route.

I think it's hard to imagine FP+ being used in place of significant discounts if the discounts are necessary. Is an extra FP+ or two a day really going to make people want to pay a higher price like free dining does if they wouldn't consider it otherwise? I personally don't think so. At best I think it could maybe bump people up from value to moderate or moderate to deluxe if there were a significant difference between the levels. I would personally view it more like a bonus than an incentive, kind of like the free Memory Maker promo.

Yeah, I don't think it would ever get someone to totally change their lodging plans, but as you said, it could be enough to nudge someone to move from a mod to a deluxe, etc. But looks like the issue is moot now (good riddance!)

Of course! They could have done this, but the MDE system has a whole lot more designed to it than just FP+. All I was saying, is that until the last three months played out rather poorly for them, they made a good choice to spread the rest of the FP+s across the board to all. Which I think was a smart, consumer friendly approach to solving a growing PR problem. If things went differently the last 3 months and everyone sent their surveys back with "Thank you for my 3 FP+, that's all I needed" things might have went very differently.

This could be too, good point.

 

[jimmysmom74]

Yes, that. I still think they hoped to keep more back for incentives (surprise and delight anyone?) but the have had to ante up and add more back in to the base system to quiet the masses.

You are totally right. I think they had high hopes people would be satisfied with the 3 FP+ and then they could figure out how the best (cost effective) way to use the other ones. I am sure there is a million ways they could have thought to make more money and provide unique and memorable experiences for guests. And they may do that eventually and in low seasons, but they had to fix the current problem before they lost their summer crowds.

 

[wisblue]

You are totally right. I think they had high hopes people would be satisfied with the 3 FP+ and then they could figure out how the best (cost effective) way to use the other ones. I am sure there is a million ways they could have thought to make more money and provide unique and memorable experiences for guests. And they may do that eventually and in low seasons, but they had to fix the current problem before they lost their summer crowds.

I think it is much more likely that they chose 3 as a starting point because it was a conservative number that gave a very high percentage of guests as many or more FPs than they got before, and gave everyone the same number. It also provided enough volume to test the operation of the system without overtaxing it. They must be confident that this is a number that they could increase, but won't have to reduce.

During the period in which offsite guests could only get FPs at in park kiosks, it would have been dangerous to throw extra traffic to the kiosks by allowing guests to get more FPs. Now that they have made advance FPs available to offsite guests with tickets, and the spring break rush is over, it was a logical time to introduce a new variable into the equation. It's just the latest (and undoubtedly not the last) step in the evolution of this system.

 

[OtherScott]

Of course! They could have done this, but the MDE system has a whole lot more designed to it than just FP+. All I was saying, is that until the last three months played out rather poorly for them, they made a good choice to spread the rest of the FP+s across the board to all. Which I think was a smart, consumer friendly approach to solving a growing PR problem. If things went differently the last 3 months and everyone sent their surveys back with "Thank you for my 3 FP+, that's all I needed" things might have went very differently.

And all I am saying is

1) the thing you said they would have done absent negative feedback could have been done

2) there isn't much reason to believe things played out poorly for them, or for that matter, any differently than they would have reasonably expected

3) what growing PR problem? The one that is mitigated once you release additional FPs?

I'm sorry. The consideration of negative impacts is probably on page 1 of any policy discussion agenda - and based on data, not mere supposition (I include myself in the group of supposers).

 

[jimmysmom74]

I think it is much more likely that they chose 3 as a starting point because it was a conservative number that gave a very high percentage of guests as many or more FPs than they got before, and gave everyone the same number. It also provided enough volume to test the operation of the system without overtaxing it. They must be confident that this is a number that they could increase, but won't have to reduce. During the period in which offsite guests could only get FPs at in park kiosks, it would have been dangerous to throw extra traffic to the kiosks by allowing guests to get more FPs. Now that they have made advance FPs available to offsite guests with tickets, and the spring break rush is over, it was a logical time to introduce a new variable into the equation. It's just the latest (and undoubtedly not the last) step in the evolution of this system.

Good point! I'm sure overloading the kiosk would not have been beneficial to anyone. There is a lot of things that had to be taken into consideration. I still hope the app will eventually eliminate the kiosk all together.

 

[OtherScott]

I think it is much more likely that they chose 3 as a starting point because it was a conservative number that gave a very high percentage of guests as many or more FPs than they got before, and gave everyone the same number. It also provided enough volume to test the operation of the system without overtaxing it. They must be confident that this is a number that they could increase, but won't have to reduce.

During the period in which offsite guests could only get FPs at in park kiosks, it would have been dangerous to throw extra traffic to the kiosks by allowing guests to get more FPs. Now that they have made advance FPs available to offsite guests with tickets, and the spring break rush is over, it was a logical time to introduce a new variable into the equation. It's just the latest (and undoubtedly not the last) step in the evolution of this system.

This thing has played out in the most logical fashion I can imagine, except for not having tiering in initially.

I can't see the logic that leads to the belief that during the years long development of this project Disney fails to plan for the changes we're seeing, yet, can make these changes in a matter of months upon being duly notified by guests.

I guess it's just fortuitous that capacity and infrastructure just happened to be in place to facilitate this capitulation.

 

[jimmysmom74]

And all I am saying is 1) the thing you said they would have done absent negative feedback could have been done 2) there isn't much reason to believe things played out poorly for them, or for that matter, any differently than they would have reasonably expected 3) what growing PR problem? The one that is mitigated once you release additional FPs? I'm sorry. The consideration of negative impacts is probably on page 1 of any policy discussion agenda - and based on data, not mere supposition (I include myself in the group of supposers).

Well, I guess discussion board( not just this one either), bloggers, not to mention several families I know personally, and myself(that actually was in the parks during the last test phase) all having issue with the FP+ and the increase waits across the board for rides during Jan through March are not a PR problem. The survey feedback was not good. I spoke to a survey person on a phone call post trip and she told me that my concerns were common among others she had spoke to. As far as playing out poorly. I know Disney execs don't want to hear families won't be returning whether a threat or real. That is not good PR. So we can just disagree on this issue.

I am glad to see what I consider to be an improvement to FP+. I have never given up on Disney or threatened to quit going. And our March trip wasn't horrible, it didn't ruin our trip. But we visit frequently. I feel bad for anyone who felt unsatisfied with their vacations. We will be on our 5th trip in June over 2 years, we still love Disney.

 

[2Tiggies]

I still hope the app will eventually eliminate the kiosk all together.

While I can see them eventually making any kiosk function possible to be done via the app, I can't see them doing away with the kiosks any time soon; and I'm talking a few years at the very least. The kiosks are probably going to be a necessary back up not only for those without a smart phone or device, or anyone who has a depleted battery or malfunction on their mobile device, they really need to have them there.

 

[Sammie]

Good point! I'm sure overloading the kiosk would not have been beneficial to anyone. There is a lot of things that had to be taken into consideration. I still hope the app will eventually eliminate the kiosk all together.

Why can't they have both. I can understand the wanting of the app to come online too but why take away the kiosk option.

There will be many years before everyone has a smart phone. I don't and don't plan to get one anytime soon.

As to why the 3 to begin with. I was told they were going to start out small and unveil slowly, making sure as Wisblue stated they did not have to backtrack and take anything away but could gradually add to the system.

 

[dramadrew]

After 330 pm got Mk fast passes to pirates (right away), jungle cruise and splash mtn. Hardly any wait to kiosks. Dole whip line was the longest today

 

[jimmysmom74]

While I can see them eventually making any kiosk function possible to be done via the app, I can't see them doing away with the kiosks any time soon; and I'm talking a few years at the very least. The kiosks are probably going to be a necessary back up not only for those without a smart phone or device, or anyone who has a depleted battery or malfunction on their mobile device, they really need to have them there.

Why can't they have both. I can understand the wanting of the app to come online too but why take away the kiosk option.

There will be many years before everyone has a smart phone. I don't and don't plan to get one anytime soon.

As to why the 3 to begin with. I was told they were going to start out small and unveil slowly, making sure as Wisblue stated they did not have to backtrack and take anything away but could gradually add to the system.

Sorry, Sorry. Misunderstanding! I didn't mean to get rid of kiosks altogether, I would just prefer to personally use my smart phone. I would never expect you to go out and buy a smartphone just for WDW trip. That typed out all wrong! Apologies

 

[morethananyonex]

Why can't they have both. I can understand the wanting of the app to come online too but why take away the kiosk option.

There will be many years before everyone has a smart phone. I don't and don't plan to get one anytime soon.

As to why the 3 to begin with. I was told they were going to start out small and unveil slowly, making sure as Wisblue stated they did not have to backtrack and take anything away but could gradually add to the system.

Maybe they meant eliminate the need for the kiosk, not eliminate the kiosks all together. That would make sense.

They did have to backtrack and take away since the start of the rollout though, tiers and the 4th bonus MK FP. Any inside info on why those changes had to occur, and if those reasons were not realized before testing began, why?

 

[wisblue]

Good point! I'm sure overloading the kiosk would not have been beneficial to anyone. There is a lot of things that had to be taken into consideration. I still hope the app will eventually eliminate the kiosk all together.

I think that is probably Disney's goal too for guests who have smartphones. But, they will still need something for the substantial number of guests who won't have smartphones or whose phones run out of charge.

 

[wisblue]

Maybe they meant eliminate the need for the kiosk, not eliminate the kiosks all together. That would make sense.

They did have to backtrack and take away since the start of the rollout though, tiers and the 4th bonus MK FP. Any inside info on why those changes had to occur, and if those reasons were not realized before testing began, why?

I think those features were so early in the process there was no concern about capacity. Those things were only experienced by a small percentage of guests who were opting into the test and that early testing probably confirmred that a high percentage of guests at Epcot and DHS selected the top two attractions. So, they put in the tiers before FP+ was made available to all resort guests.

My first experience with FP+ came in November and I was selecting FPs in September. I was never offered a bonus MK FP+. Even the word "bonus" seems to suggest that that was a special limited time thing.