Extra Fastpasses: A Case Study

This is exactly what the poster was hoping for....... to throw the thread off course and sit back and laugh at the "cattiness" to ensue from the typical players .....it's such a shame with all of the important feedback given here. :sad2:

If I was to make a list of posters based on the likelihood of them being a troll, Robo would be near the bottom of the list.
 
If I was to make a list of posters based on the likelihood of them being a troll, Robo would be near the bottom of the list.

I actually think you need 100K posts to be cleared of troll potential. But he's getting there. ;)
 
Did any of those rides have significant SB lines when you rode them? I can't imagine any did, except maybe Buzz.

It does seem that during low crowd times, the new FP+ rule makes it essentially an endless C ticket machine. I guess that's nice, but the fact that even on a slow day, at 2 pm, none of the mountains were available really sucks. Unless you didn't want to ride any of them.

-Jason

The rolling fastpass works well at MK for "C ticket" rides, but not so well for other rides. Last Wednesday, at 9:30am at HS, I attempted to change my pre-booked time for Toy Story (just as a test). There were no alternate times available at 9:30am! At MK around noon, I tried to get a rolling FP for Splash Mountain. There were none available.

On a positive note, at Epcot, I surprisingly was able to book Test Track and Soarin' as rolling fastpasses (but not on the same day).
 
In my opinion the reason so many folks thought it was a failure was b/c Disney was not upfront with how the rollout would work and people were still paying thousands of dollars to test a system and have their vacations "jacked" up. Spending hours in line at guest relations is NOT how I want to spend my vacation. If Disney was upfront and told folks how the test was going to happen people could decide for themselves if they wanted to be part of the test before flights etc were booked. I got caught up in the MB only for Pop last Dec. Found out about a 2 weeks before my trip on these boards......Disney never did tell me until I checked in. In my opinion that's pretty craptastic. Now I am cautiously optimistic how things are going right now but there is still some doubt in my gut with what will change by my Oct trip.

The lack of information and constant unannounced changes was most frustrating to me. I assume Disney didn't want people to delay booking until the final version was out. I still don't really understand why, if this was the plan all along, it had to be implemented in stages, including the offsite prebooking access, considering the negative impact on guests who may never return to WDW. :confused3 I'd heard a rumor of 4 FP and hopping capability, but not specifically a rolling fourth until the surveys, so I'm not convinced that was always the plan. And it may not be the final version, given recent rumors of a rolling three, which I'm guessing had the most survey votes.
 

Said the same in November:



Same objections then, with the added "no capacity to offer more."

No capacity for headliners, depending somewhat on crowd levels. I think everyone pretty much agreed there was wasted capacity on "B-level" MK rides. Since those are the rides my kids love, we would have benefited greatly from the rolling fourth.
 
But they also knew that a lot of first time guests or casual guests weren't using FastPass at all. That was a problem, maybe not for you, but for Disney.

FastPass is NOT designed to get you on as many rides as possible. It's designed to allow you to do something else while you're effectively holding a place in line. Hopefully that something else involves spending money.

FP+ was limited at first to make sure that if more guests used the system (which was the goal), that it wouldn't overstress ride capacity. Once they knew it didn't, they rolled out the 4+. Now the system is very similar to the old one, with pre-booking ability.

For the 4th and more FP+, you can only (*currently) book it in the park you are in, right? So you'd have to park hop just to see if there was even availability at another park?
 
A huge THANKS to OP for taking the time to post this highly detailed and very welcome info!

:worship:
 
Did any of those rides have significant SB lines when you rode them? I can't imagine any did, except maybe Buzz.

It does seem that during low crowd times, the new FP+ rule makes it essentially an endless C ticket machine. I guess that's nice, but the fact that even on a slow day, at 2 pm, none of the mountains were available really sucks. Unless you didn't want to ride any of them.

-Jason


The waits were as follows:

Barnstormer (35 min), Dumbo (1 hour), Pooh (45 minutes), Pirates of Carribean (35 minutes), Jungle Cruise (35 minutes), Buzz (30 minutes), and Rapzunel (45 minutes).

So from 1:50 to 3:00, we were able to do Barnstormer, Dumbo, Minnie/Daisy Meet and Greet, and Pooh, all the while others waited a hour for Dumbo.

I still have reservations about FP+ for the other parks, but I think it works great for MK.
 
So with the stated desire that guests spend more money, and an initial limit of 3 FPs per guests leading to a surplus of FPs daily (as evidenced by the fact that with an increase in usage approaching 90%, they can still dole out additional FPs), did the CM on the phone have any idea what Disney initially planned to do with these leftover FPs that expired at the end of the day - before all of the complaints?

I am certain that back in March, the CM was forced to play her cards close to her vest, but here is what I gleaned:

They didn't really expect "surplus FPs". As you noted earlier, the current iteration essentially allows for an unlimited supply of "C" attractions. On most days when FPs matter, the "E" attraction FPs will be gone well before people can pull a 5th or 6th or 10th. No surplus. What they didn't anticipate was that people would care all that much about having an unlimited supply of FPs for "lesser" attractions. After the feedback started to come back hot and heavy, they promised to look at a way to make more FPs available, but I was cautioned that in the end, the major attractions were still going to be limited in much the way the original roll-out offered them. Tiered with no repeats. They simply underestimated people's emotional attachment to FPs for non-major attractions that would allow people to skip 20 minute SB lines.

They didn't anticipate longer lines at other attractions, (such at POTC and HM) and in fact denied that the lines were actually any longer. Their assumption here was that as soon as people became more familiar with FP+, touring patterns would change and things would be back to normal quickly. They are probably right about this, and I didn't challenge this assumption at all.

FP+ was designed to provide more "leisure" time to guests. Of course, their definition of "leisure" is actually "spending" to you and me. No argument there. But the current iteration of FP+ that we are discussing in this thread brings about the return of the commando. They aren't really in favor of that, did not design the system to work this way, but had to do some studying to see if the negative reaction to the original roll-out was serious enough to bend the mission statement. Let's face it. The OP to this thread is not behaving in the park the way the patent application suggests would net profit to WDW. Here is where the CM became coy for obvious reasons. I could tell (and it should be obvious) that using FP+ in a commando manner is not what Disney wanted and not what they designed. But give them credit for listening and reacting.

As for wisblue's comment about the credibility of the design of the system and the use of kiosks, here is where it got really interesting. Much of our discussion revolved around how the kiosks were a disaster and that the lines for same (and FP+ return lines) were ruining the optics of the park. Beautifuly designed theme parks were starting to look like "sleep-out" lines for Grateful Dead tickets or for a Springsteen show. She was quick to offer up that changes were coming for offsite guests in the way of pre-booking. I asked her if that, coupled with app usage, became the norm, wouldn't that make the kiosks obsolete withing months of their roll-out? She conceded that changes that were likely to come could very well result in the kiosks having far less utility. "In the future, you may never have to wait in a kiosk line again. We shall see." Of course, now the kiosks are needed for FP+ 4-10. No idea if this will continue to be the case. This change was far enough down the road that we did not discuss it. But if additional FPs become bookable by app, then the kiosks will have very little value. The moral of this story is that the development and implementaton of the kiosks are tangible proof that the system took a wide turn away from how it was originally supposed to work. Unless you want to hold fast to your belief that Disney invested all that time, money and energy developing and installing kiosks all the while knowing that they would become useless in 4 months. I seriously doubt that. The system was designed so that kiosks would be an important element of the functionality. We are one step away (app usage for extra FPs) from the kiosks being obsolete. This in and of itself shows just how far from center the current system is. I'm not complaining. But for those that think that the current system was "in the cards" all along, well, I'd like some of what you are drinking.
 
But for those that think that the current system was "in the cards" all along, well, I'd like some of what you are drinking.

Well, technically "in the cards" doesn't mean "pre-planned". It's closer to meaning it was predestined. ;)
 
I'm not complaining. But for those that think that the current system was "in the cards" all along, well, I'd like some of what you are drinking.

I think you know what they're drinking. ;)
 
I'm sure this has been answered, but wanting to verify...so I choose my 3 FP+ res 60 days in advance. I want Wishes as one of them. I know it seems like a waste. However, we did it last year because I really wanted great pictures. It was very much worth it to us. Anyway, since that is used at the end of the night, does that pretty much eliminate my option of the 4th FP? And, others have said that they were not available later to get as the 4th fp. So, that kind of stinks if its the case. Also, as someone else asked earlier, if I use my 3 FP's and want to hop, do I need to go to a kiosk in the new park to choose? Or can I choose evening FP's for Epcot while in AK for instance? Thanks for the help! I swear...totally not a newbie but only used the FP+ in addition to paper tickets last year. So, trying to know the system before getting there in October :)
 
The waits were as follows:

Barnstormer (35 min), Dumbo (1 hour), Pooh (45 minutes), Pirates of Carribean (35 minutes), Jungle Cruise (35 minutes), Buzz (30 minutes), and Rapzunel (45 minutes).

So from 1:50 to 3:00, we were able to do Barnstormer, Dumbo, Minnie/Daisy Meet and Greet, and Pooh, all the while others waited a hour for Dumbo.

I still have reservations about FP+ for the other parks, but I think it works great for MK.

So, apparently you were just using FP+ extra passes to solve a problem that was created by FP+. For Pirates and JC to have a 35 minute wait in early May on a Monday is positively extraordinary. And it makes me weep for the future of that park.

I think in the MK, there is enough capacity on a slow day that FP+ can be taken advantage of for lower tier rides. The other parks simply don't have the capacity, period.

-Jason
 
This in and of itself shows just how far from center the current system is. I'm not complaining. But for those that think that the current system was "in the cards" all along, well, I'd like some of what you are drinking.

I think you know what they're drinking. ;)

The point made by many (amid the non-stop doom and gloom of many more) was that the system WOULD evolve because it HAD to evolve because WDW could not know in advance the precise details of how it work in real life.

I'd like to know what some of you are drinking if you think WDW expected a change of this magnitude to not evolve and that they didn't expect, and allow for, tweaks, enhancements and improvements along the way.
 
They simply underestimated people's emotional attachment to FPs for non-major attractions that would allow people to skip 20 minute SB lines.

It sounds like they seriously underestimated the psychological impact of artificial limitations -- being limited by an across-the-board arbitrary maximum instead of the natural limits of supply and demand.

Now, if they would also recognize the psychological impact of not knowing whether you're actually seeing all the capacity. One of the benefits of FP+ is that they can be cancelled and put back into the pool, so availability is going to vary somewhat minute-by-minute, but please, Disney, reassure us that everyone can see all available choices without clicking "back" and "next," and let us know if some are being held back for day-of booking.
 
So, apparently you were just using FP+ extra passes to solve a problem that was created by FP+. For Pirates and JC to have a 35 minute wait in early May on a Monday is positively extraordinary. And it makes me weep for the future of that park.

I think in the MK, there is enough capacity on a slow day that FP+ can be taken advantage of for lower tier rides. The other parks simply don't have the capacity, period.

-Jason

It's just perspective.

Another way of looking at it, it's still possible to ride Pirates with no wait and at the same time have the other benefits of FP+.
 
yes...exactly I do agree with you, 100%. I misread your other post. :thumbsup2

And your last sentence has a triple negative!!! But I think I follow it...the changes might have happened without the complaints anyway.... ;)

I caught that as soon as I reread it, so I edited it to make it clearer. But, it looks like you responded before I got that up.
 


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