Extra Fastpasses: A Case Study

From the 2007 Disney Patent

Publication number US20070203763 A1
Publication type Application
Application number US 11/468,284
Publication date Aug 30, 2007
Filing date Aug 29, 2006
Priority date Aug 10, 1999
Also published as US7400932
Inventors Jonathan Ackley, Gregory Hale, Kenneth Schweizer
Original Assignee Jonathan Ackley, Hale Gregory B, Schweizer Kenneth W
Export Citation BiBTeX, EndNote, RefMan
Referenced by (7), Classifications (6), Legal Events (2)
External Links: USPTO, USPTO Assignment, Espacenet


1. Early Fastpass Access
a. There is the ability to offer guests early access to Fastpass via their in-room TV, (DTV or hotel kiosk), to select the attractions for a Fastpass is required.
i. The ability to access this access may be variable, such as the night before, day of prior to entertainment park open, and day of after park opens.
b. Pre-Arrival
i. The Fastpass may be obtainable via the WEB from a remote location such as a home computer
I. The Fastpass may be supplied as printed paper tickets
II. the Fastpass may be supplied electronically and wirelessly through a download to a PDA or cellular telephone
2. Multiple Fastpass accesses for Resort guests is possible
a. Each Guest per room is able to select same or separate Fastpass as others in the room. As each attraction is selected Guest can select which Guests want that selection.
b. The ability to offer different numbers (i.e. more than 3, could be variable) of Fastpass based on segmentation.
3. There is the ability to offer premium return times based on segmentation.
4. There is the ability to let segmented guests have first chance to certain inventory.
5. There is the ability to allow guests with parkhopper entitlements to choose a Fastpass for a second park on the same day.
6. There is the ability to issue a concurrent Fastpass for the day guest (with long virtual waits).

C'mon Jade -

Just because Disney put into their patent 7 years ago when they were planning this system for it to be flexible with various options and abilities doesn't mean they were actually planning on changing anything after the initial roll-out.

Obviously Disney planned on having a completely "terrible" and "failed" system and only decided to make any adjustments because people complained loudly on internet message boards.....

:joker:
 
Conditional weighting would have a much higher impact on the inter-relationships between the 3 selections. You're only selecting one at a time after those are done- for that new one, what are they weighting? Guest-type? If so, that would be a subdivision of the Pool. See above for things such as distance, etc., but it also can't be party size if other, more convenient times show up as soon as you start playing with it. And I would seriously doubt it's caused by huge numbers of guests changing/deleting a bunch of FP's on the fly- everything so far points to very understandable time lags in their real time capabilities (remember KTP, etc.).

Sub optimal time as a first choice knowing that anything above 0% acceptance leaves optimal spots on the board. Interrelationship between you and everyone else, and what their itineraries have remaining, and what they have used, and where they are, and where you all plan on eating, if you planned on eating, and redemption rates (predicted and actual), and on and on...
 
Sub optimal time as a first choice knowing that anything above 0% acceptance leaves optimal spots on the board. Interrelationship between you and everyone else, and what their itineraries have remaining, and what they have used, and where they are, and where you all plan on eating, if you planned on eating, and redemption rates (predicted and actual), and on and on...

What it boils down to is this:

If I'm dropping 8K for my on-site, Disney vacation; have used my 3, pre-scheduled FP's at DHS by 1pm; have just now dropped $150 for lunch at the Brown Derby; and am now at the FP Kiosk to select my 4th FP hoping for RnR (it is located right around the corner) ---- if 3pm is available but they're just not showing it to me for whatever business rule, I don't want to have to pick the 6pm in order to "play with the system" to get 3pm. I may be a bad person, but I feel that I am "entitled" to at least see all of the options, based on my investment.

I very much understand why they are doing it. I very much understand how they are doing it. I don't have to like it, but am encouraged that there may be enough "loopholes" to work around it - as long as the masses continue to select what Disney presents them for rides and times.

It's a percentages game for them. As long as we're a small enough percentage, maybe they'll leave the work-arounds alone (once we find them all...;) )
 

As the OP, I want to make clear:

(1) Yesterday was not a rainy day. It was sunny the whole time and MK was a 5-6 on the crowded scale.

(2) Everything I saw seemed to indicate that I was being offered the earliest times available as my earlier posts would suggest, although I read the other post that details why this may not always be the case. It could depend on the attraction.

(3) To add more data, at 2:30, I got Pooh for 2:55-3:55. I first tried Under the Sea, but the earliest available was 4:50, which I rejected. At 5:00, I first tried for Town Hall Mickey. The earliest offered was 8:10, which I rejected in favor of Buzz at 5:15. Again, Rapunzel was not available at 1:49, but it was available at 5:25.

(4) CMs control most of the FP kiosks, so it is not easy to say go back and check the same attraction again. IPads are quicker than stationery kiosks.
 
What it boils down to is this: If I'm dropping 8K for my on-site, Disney vacation; have used my 3, pre-scheduled FP's at DHS by 1pm; have just now dropped $150 for lunch at the Brown Derby; and am now at the FP Kiosk to select my 4th FP hoping for RnR (it is located right around the corner) ---- if 3pm is available but they're just not showing it to me for whatever business rule, I don't want to have to pick the 6pm in order to "play with the system" to get 3pm. I may be a bad person, but I feel that I am "entitled" to at least see all of the options, based on my investment. I very much understand why they are doing it. I very much understand how they are doing it. I don't have to like it, but am encouraged that there may be enough "loopholes" to work around it - as long as the masses continue to select what Disney presents them for rides and times. It's a percentages game for them. As long as we're a small enough percentage, maybe they'll leave the work-arounds alone (once we find them all...;) )

I agree. I'd rather not know so I could just rage against the wind.
 
C'mon Jade -

Just because Disney put into their patent 7 years ago when they were planning this system for it to be flexible with various options and abilities doesn't mean they were actually planning on changing anything after the initial roll-out.

Obviously Disney planned on having a completely "terrible" and "failed" system and only decided to make any adjustments because people complained loudly on internet message boards.....

:joker:

HaHa, yea the gang went and had all of this in the system for 7 years, obviously it was in the cards all along.
 
As for wisblue's comment about the credibility of the design of the system and the use of kiosks, here is where it got really interesting. Much of our discussion revolved around how the kiosks were a disaster and that the lines for same (and FP+ return lines) were ruining the optics of the park. Beautifuly designed theme parks were starting to look like "sleep-out" lines for Grateful Dead tickets or for a Springsteen show. She was quick to offer up that changes were coming for offsite guests in the way of pre-booking. I asked her if that, coupled with app usage, became the norm, wouldn't that make the kiosks obsolete withing months of their roll-out? She conceded that changes that were likely to come could very well result in the kiosks having far less utility. "In the future, you may never have to wait in a kiosk line again. We shall see." Of course, now the kiosks are needed for FP+ 4-10. No idea if this will continue to be the case. This change was far enough down the road that we did not discuss it. But if additional FPs become bookable by app, then the kiosks will have very little value. The moral of this story is that the development and implementaton of the kiosks are tangible proof that the system took a wide turn away from how it was originally supposed to work. Unless you want to hold fast to your belief that Disney invested all that time, money and energy developing and installing kiosks all the while knowing that they would become useless in 4 months. I seriously doubt that. The system was designed so that kiosks would be an important element of the functionality. We are one step away (app usage for extra FPs) from the kiosks being obsolete. This in and of itself shows just how far from center the current system is. I'm not complaining. But for those that think that the current system was "in the cards" all along, well, I'd like some of what you are drinking.

The kiosks will always be necessary and present as not everyone has a smartphone or tablet with which to access MDE. So, assuming that the kiosks are evidence that there was no "grand" plan for FP+ is a fallacious argument and disregards other possible or even probable explanations.
 
As the OP, I want to make clear:

(1) Yesterday was not a rainy day. It was sunny the whole time and MK was a 5-6 on the crowded scale.

(2) Everything I saw seemed to indicate that I was being offered the earliest times available as my earlier posts would suggest, although I read the other post that details why this may not always be the case. It could depend on the attraction.

(3) To add more data, at 2:30, I got Pooh for 2:55-3:55. I first tried Under the Sea, but the earliest available was 4:50, which I rejected. At 5:00, I first tried for Town Hall Mickey. The earliest offered was 8:10, which I rejected in favor of Buzz at 5:15. Again, Rapunzel was not available at 1:49, but it was available at 5:25.

(4) CMs control most of the FP kiosks, so it is not easy to say go back and check the same attraction again. IPads are quicker than stationery kiosks.

Good thread Op! and good detail!

When you say CM's are controlling the Kiosks, are they trying to do it all for you and/or trying to move guests along as quickly as possible? Did they give you enough time play around with your times and selections at the Kiosk? It sounds like you had a better one-on-one experience when you went to a CM with an IPad. That would be great feedback.
 
There is a CM at each individual kiosk. One time I had a kiosk to myself, but the touch screen would not respond to my touch, and I had to get help from a CM anyway.
 
C'mon Jade -

Just because Disney put into their patent 7 years ago when they were planning this system for it to be flexible with various options and abilities doesn't mean they were actually planning on changing anything after the initial roll-out.

Obviously Disney planned on having a completely "terrible" and "failed" system and only decided to make any adjustments because people complained loudly on internet message boards.....

:joker:

I love Disney more than pretty much anybody does, but when they are in the wrong, I will call them on it. Just like I am the first one to tell my kids when they have crossed the line.

We have two possible scenarios here:

1) Disney knew all along that they were going to add the 4th (and more) FP. Everything up until this point has all been part of their elaborate testing

2) People complained that 3 FP+s weren't enough. And complained loudly. And frequently. And Disney realized that even though the average guest used three, some of their most loyal guests used a whole lot more and would not be content with 3.

In scenario 1, Disney used a bunch of unwitting (and possibly unwilling) guests as guinea pigs. They threw a bunch of constantly changing parameters and rules at people who had no way to know or plan for these changes. Guests who spent thousands of dollars on their vacations received no compensation. Disney, knowing full well what they had planned, could have given plenty of advance notice to guests (such as at Pop during the only 3 FP+ situation when all other resorts could "double dip" and even off-siters got as many paper FPs as the system allowed) to allow guests to make alternate plans. But Disney chose not to. And it wasn't because this was a quiet time of year. Some of the negative changes happened right at Christmas and the 4th FP wasn't rolled out for spring break. If Disney knew that this was their master plan and didn't inform guests, they were pretty much being a big old bully.

In scenario 2, Disney isn't quite sure what's going on. "I think maybe we can give 3 FPs in advance to everyone at every park. Oops! Soarin' and TT are booked in advance. There's nothing left. I guess we better put some tiers in place. Well, we've got this great new system, but people are still pulling lots of paper FPs. Perhaps we should force them to all use FP+s and not paper. Well, we can't stress the system too much. Let's just pick one resort and make people use only FP+s. How about Pop? Oh, the average guest uses three FPs per day. If we let them pre-book three FPs, they'll be thrilled. They won't have to get up early to go to TSMM. What's that you say? With the tiers, they still have to get up early to ride RNRC? And people really want to book FPs in multiple parks? But we don't exactly have enough capacity for prebooking that way. Boy, people are getting really ornery. Have you seen the FB page? We had to turn off the comments. Yikes! Okay. I guess we'll need to add in more FP+s somehow. Let's send a survey about what the best way to do that will be. And then we'll post on the blog letting them know that enhancements are coming, but we're not exactly sure when. Let's say "spring." It's our most generic timeframe. We'll put in hopping and more FPs. But for now, they'll need to use the kiosks. Back to the drawing board to see what we can do about prebooking in multiple parks and that "rolling 3" option we put on the survey and got everyone all excited about."

In scenario 2, Disney is just kind of clueless and unprepared. When they realize there is an issue, they try to fix it in a kind of haphazard way.

Based on my experience with Disney in general and Disney IT in particular (not just MDE, but dining, reservations, tickets, and pretty much everything else), I just see scenario 2 as much more likely.

Whether you like FP+ or not, I think it is very hard to make the argument that Disney did a fantastic job with the rollout. So, they are either sneaky and underhanded and implemented their grand MASTER FP+ Plan at the expense of unsuspecting guests or they made some mistakes and couldn't quite get FP+ right but are trying their best to make improvements to please their guests.

I know which one gives me a more positive impression of Disney. YMMV.
 
I think changes happened as problems arose. The people who spent $1000s of dollars on dream vacations that were not so magical since legacy was discontinued and the 3 FP+ and done system was initiated are likely the folks who should get the credit for helping force change. Sadly, I know several families who were so disappointed with their spring break trips they will not be returning anytime soon.

I love Disney, as everyone that posts on this site does. I am glad to see an improvement to the system. I am hopeful it continues to evolve in the right direction. Thank you to all the Disers taking time from their vacations to update us. Your reports are greatly appreciated!!!
 
I love Disney more than pretty much anybody does, but when they are in the wrong, I will call them on it. Just like I am the first one to tell my kids when they have crossed the line. We have two possible scenarios here: 1) Disney knew all along that they were going to add the 4th (and more) FP. Everything up until this point has all been part of their elaborate testing 2) People complained that 3 FP+s weren't enough. And complained loudly. And frequently. And Disney realized that even though the average guest used three, some of their most loyal guests used a whole lot more and would not be content with 3. In scenario 1, Disney used a bunch of unwitting (and possibly unwilling) guests as guinea pigs. They threw a bunch of constantly changing parameters and rules at people who had no way to know or plan for these changes. Guests who spent thousands of dollars on their vacations received no compensation. Disney, knowing full well what they had planned, could have given plenty of advance notice to guests (such as at Pop during the only 3 FP+ situation when all other resorts could "double dip" and even off-siters got as many paper FPs as the system allowed) to allow guests to make alternate plans. But Disney chose not to. And it wasn't because this was a quiet time of year. Some of the negative changes happened right at Christmas and the 4th FP wasn't rolled out for spring break. If Disney knew that this was their master plan and didn't inform guests, they were pretty much being a big old bully. In scenario 2, Disney isn't quite sure what's going on. "I think maybe we can give 3 FPs in advance to everyone at every park. Oops! Soarin' and TT are booked in advance. There's nothing left. I guess we better put some tiers in place. Well, we've got this great new system, but people are still pulling lots of paper FPs. Perhaps we should force them to all use FP+s and not paper. Well, we can't stress the system too much. Let's just pick one resort and make people use only FP+s. How about Pop? Oh, the average guest uses three FPs per day. If we let them pre-book three FPs, they'll be thrilled. They won't have to get up early to go to TSMM. What's that you say? With the tiers, they still have to get up early to ride RNRC? And people really want to book FPs in multiple parks? But we don't exactly have enough capacity for prebooking that way. Boy, people are getting really ornery. Have you seen the FB page? We had to turn off the comments. Yikes! Okay. I guess we'll need to add in more FP+s somehow. Let's send a survey about what the best way to do that will be. And then we'll post on the blog letting them know that enhancements are coming, but we're not exactly sure when. Let's say "spring." It's our most generic timeframe. We'll put in hopping and more FPs. But for now, they'll need to use the kiosks. Back to the drawing board to see what we can do about prebooking in multiple parks and that "rolling 3" option we put on the survey and got everyone all excited about." In scenario 2, Disney is just kind of clueless and unprepared. When they realize there is an issue, they try to fix it in a kind of haphazard way. Based on my experience with Disney in general and Disney IT in particular (not just MDE, but dining, reservations, tickets, and pretty much everything else), I just see scenario 2 as much more likely. Whether you like FP+ or not, I think it is very hard to make the argument that Disney did a fantastic job with the rollout. So, they are either sneaky and underhanded and implemented their grand MASTER FP+ Plan at the expense of unsuspecting guests or they made some mistakes and couldn't quite get FP+ right but are trying their best to make improvements to please their guests. I know which one gives me a more positive impression of Disney. YMMV.

Too much either/or, IMO
 
Under the old FP- system it was important to get to the park early. Under the new system it is also important (I think it's even more important now).

Under the old system I could be a dreaded super-user. Under the new system I can now be a dreaded super-user.

Under the old system I had to run to an attraction to get a FP. Under the new system I have to run to a kiosk (though that is likely to change soon, which will allow me to walk with my phone up to my nose and obtain a new FP) to get a new FP.

So, essentially under this new system I now have the ability to pre-plan 3 rides and select from different times in the parks.

Totally worth 1.5 billion dollars.

(I should add, OPs report does make me happy)

Yup, pretty much what I was thinking, too. Glad I can get on more rides with less waiting, too bad they spent 1.5 billion dollars to get rid of little slips of paper. HEY!! Maybe Disney did this to help save the environment, not wasting all that paper and stuff! :joker:
 
What it boils down to is this:

If I'm dropping 8K for my on-site, Disney vacation; have used my 3, pre-scheduled FP's at DHS by 1pm; have just now dropped $150 for lunch at the Brown Derby; and am now at the FP Kiosk to select my 4th FP hoping for RnR (it is located right around the corner) ---- if 3pm is available but they're just not showing it to me for whatever business rule, I don't want to have to pick the 6pm in order to "play with the system" to get 3pm. I may be a bad person, but I feel that I am "entitled" to at least see all of the options, based on my investment.

I very much understand why they are doing it. I very much understand how they are doing it. I don't have to like it, but am encouraged that there may be enough "loopholes" to work around it - as long as the masses continue to select what Disney presents them for rides and times.

It's a percentages game for them. As long as we're a small enough percentage, maybe they'll leave the work-arounds alone (once we find them all...;) )

I completely agree that, if you want to get a FP for a certain attraction, they should show you all of the available times so you can pick the one that works best for you.

Ideally, it would be nice to see a grid with all of the available attractions with all available return times. All else being equal, RNRC might be my first choice over TOT, but I might rather have TOT at 4 PM than RNRC at 6PM for a wide variety of reasons (dinner plans, leaving the park, getting another FP sooner, etc.).

Do they do things this way to keep guests who really don't know what they want from taking up too much time agonizing over their choices? Kind of like the options they offer on the website when you make advance reservations. On the first pass, they give you a couple of choices, but when you change a time, they show you a lot more times. In fact, when you are making reservations in advance, it looks like they offer you the whole day except for times that you already have covered.

I don't think I have ever tried it, but what kind of options do you get when you try to change the time for an existing reservation through the in park kiosks? Would it be faster, instead of going through the back and next exercise to try to get a better time, to just accept the time offered and then try to change it. Would you then be shown a menu of available times? Or can you only do this through the app?
 
People realize the $1.5 billion spend wasn't just on FP+ right? :rolleyes2

The entire MyMagic+ system accounts for the $1.5 billion expenditure. It involved the integration of numerous guest-accessed and CM-accessed systems. Resort room access, resort charging, theme park admission, Magical Express reservations, dining plan, PhotoPass and FastPass are just the guest-accessed systems that were integrated to be used with one appliance (MagicBands). This doesn't even begin to get into the integration of CM-accessed systems like Lilo (resort registration software) etc...I know from talking to a CM at the MyMagic+ Center at Tony's Town Square in September that at least 2 software systems (Hercules and Hades) were developed exclusively for MM+.

The investment represents research and development, planning, implementation, focus groups, testing, replacement of hardware (touchpoints on 20,000+ resort doors, touchpoints at all park entrances, touchpoints at all FP+ attractions, touchpads at all merchandise locations, handheld touchpads, FP+ kiosks etc..,), merchandising (MM+ merchandise such as MagicBand flare) and much more. Additionally, as a group we represent an infinitely small percentage of the population that visits WDW.

In the past month, half a dozen of my friends and coworkers travelled to WDW. Some first-timers, some occasional visitors (3-5 trips) and some frequent visitors (7-10 trips). None of them come close to my bi-annual trips accounting for nearly 50 visits in my lifetime. ALL OF THEM LOVED MYMAGIC+. Many of them experienced it before the 4th FP+ addition, and some after.

One friend is there currently and he reported that even though some waits were listed as 35-40 minutes (Pirates, HM) that the waits were significantly shorter and there was plenty of headliner FP+ availability as of 6:30pm.

Whether we like it or not, it appears that much of the WDW-visiting population is enjoying MyMagic+. AND it appears that those who previously got 8-10 fastpasses in a day can still do so now.
 
I completely agree that, if you want to get a FP for a certain attraction, they should show you all of the available times so you can pick the one that works best for you.

Ideally, it would be nice to see a grid with all of the available attractions with all available return times. All else being equal, RNRC might be my first choice over TOT, but I might rather have TOT at 4 PM than RNRC at 6PM for a wide variety of reasons (dinner plans, leaving the park, getting another FP sooner, etc.).

Do they do things this way to keep guests who really don't know what they want from taking up too much time agonizing over their choices? Kind of like the options they offer on the website when you make advance reservations. On the first pass, they give you a couple of choices, but when you change a time, they show you a lot more times. In fact, when you are making reservations in advance, it looks like they offer you the whole day except for times that you already have covered.

I don't think I have ever tried it, but what kind of options do you get when you try to change the time for an existing reservation through the in park kiosks? Would it be faster, instead of going through the back and next exercise to try to get a better time, to just accept the time offered and then try to change it. Would you then be shown a menu of available times? Or can you only do this through the app?

That seems to be what Shaden has been able to do and have success getting better times than what's first offered. Once the FP is released to you at the Kiosk, it looks like you have the ability to play with the times on your Smart Device. I hope more people over the next few weeks try this to see how successful it can be (as well as how well it continues to work using the back button at the Kiosk once it's selected.) It would also be nice to see reports on how well the CM's at the Kiosks and with the IPads are willing to "work" with guests to get better times than what Disney first displays as options.

I look forward to his report when he gets back.
 
I love Disney more than pretty much anybody does, but when they are in the wrong, I will call them on it. Just like I am the first one to tell my kids when they have crossed the line.

We have two possible scenarios here:

1) Disney knew all along that they were going to add the 4th (and more) FP. Everything up until this point has all been part of their elaborate testing

2) People complained that 3 FP+s weren't enough. And complained loudly. And frequently. And Disney realized that even though the average guest used three, some of their most loyal guests used a whole lot more and would not be content with 3.

In scenario 1, Disney used a bunch of unwitting (and possibly unwilling) guests as guinea pigs. They threw a bunch of constantly changing parameters and rules at people who had no way to know or plan for these changes. Guests who spent thousands of dollars on their vacations received no compensation. Disney, knowing full well what they had planned, could have given plenty of advance notice to guests (such as at Pop during the only 3 FP+ situation when all other resorts could "double dip" and even off-siters got as many paper FPs as the system allowed) to allow guests to make alternate plans. But Disney chose not to. And it wasn't because this was a quiet time of year. Some of the negative changes happened right at Christmas and the 4th FP wasn't rolled out for spring break. If Disney knew that this was their master plan and didn't inform guests, they were pretty much being a big old bully.

In scenario 2, Disney isn't quite sure what's going on. "I think maybe we can give 3 FPs in advance to everyone at every park. Oops! Soarin' and TT are booked in advance. There's nothing left. I guess we better put some tiers in place. Well, we've got this great new system, but people are still pulling lots of paper FPs. Perhaps we should force them to all use FP+s and not paper. Well, we can't stress the system too much. Let's just pick one resort and make people use only FP+s. How about Pop? Oh, the average guest uses three FPs per day. If we let them pre-book three FPs, they'll be thrilled. They won't have to get up early to go to TSMM. What's that you say? With the tiers, they still have to get up early to ride RNRC? And people really want to book FPs in multiple parks? But we don't exactly have enough capacity for prebooking that way. Boy, people are getting really ornery. Have you seen the FB page? We had to turn off the comments. Yikes! Okay. I guess we'll need to add in more FP+s somehow. Let's send a survey about what the best way to do that will be. And then we'll post on the blog letting them know that enhancements are coming, but we're not exactly sure when. Let's say "spring." It's our most generic timeframe. We'll put in hopping and more FPs. But for now, they'll need to use the kiosks. Back to the drawing board to see what we can do about prebooking in multiple parks and that "rolling 3" option we put on the survey and got everyone all excited about."

In scenario 2, Disney is just kind of clueless and unprepared. When they realize there is an issue, they try to fix it in a kind of haphazard way.

Based on my experience with Disney in general and Disney IT in particular (not just MDE, but dining, reservations, tickets, and pretty much everything else), I just see scenario 2 as much more likely.

Whether you like FP+ or not, I think it is very hard to make the argument that Disney did a fantastic job with the rollout. So, they are either sneaky and underhanded and implemented their grand MASTER FP+ Plan at the expense of unsuspecting guests or they made some mistakes and couldn't quite get FP+ right but are trying their best to make improvements to please their guests.

I know which one gives me a more positive impression of Disney. YMMV.

The two scenarios you presented are at either end of the spectrum. There are many scenarios in between with the most plausible scenario IMO being that just like it is spelled out in the patent they wanted a more efficient inventory/queueing system and intentionally planned for it to be variable and adjustable. They decided to set a baseline (3 FP) for roll-out that they believed would meet the minimum expectation of the majority of guests and then used scientific surveying of actual guest experience to tweak the system(using the adjustability intentionally built into the system) to make it work better not only for the guests but for their own bottom line.

Well, either that or all the people at Disney are clueless and evil and they hired engineers who do not know how to design systems. These people are now all being "fixed" by internet message board posters. :rotfl:
 
That seems to be what Shaden has been able to do and have success getting better times than what's first offered. Once the FP is released to you at the Kiosk, it looks like you have the ability to play with the times on your Smart Device. I hope more people over the next few weeks try this to see how successful it can be (as well as how well it continues to work using the back button at the Kiosk once it's selected.) It would also be nice to see reports on how well the CM's at the Kiosks and with the IPads are willing to "work" with guests to get better times than what Disney first displays as options.

I look forward to his report when he gets back.

I am leaving for WDW in 11 days and plan to test out both the "back" option on the kiosks and the ability to change times via a smart phone.

I also have a strategy in place to use my 3 "pre-booked" passes as fast as possible....On the 19th I have Splash 9:05 - 10:05, Pirates 10:05 - 11:05 and HM 11:05 - 12:05. After I have used Splash (let's say 9:20) I plan to try and move Pirates up (let's say 9:30 - 10:30) and then once I have used Pirates (Let's say 9:50) I plan to try and change HM (let's say 10:10 - 11:10). Once I have used HM (let's say 10:20) I should be able to access by 4th FP+....at least in theory!
 
I love Disney more than pretty much anybody does, but when they are in the wrong, I will call them on it. Just like I am the first one to tell my kids when they have crossed the line.

We have two possible scenarios here:

1) Disney knew all along that they were going to add the 4th (and more) FP. Everything up until this point has all been part of their elaborate testing

2) People complained that 3 FP+s weren't enough. And complained loudly. And frequently. And Disney realized that even though the average guest used three, some of their most loyal guests used a whole lot more and would not be content with 3.

In scenario 1, Disney used a bunch of unwitting (and possibly unwilling) guests as guinea pigs. They threw a bunch of constantly changing parameters and rules at people who had no way to know or plan for these changes. Guests who spent thousands of dollars on their vacations received no compensation. Disney, knowing full well what they had planned, could have given plenty of advance notice to guests (such as at Pop during the only 3 FP+ situation when all other resorts could "double dip" and even off-siters got as many paper FPs as the system allowed) to allow guests to make alternate plans. But Disney chose not to. And it wasn't because this was a quiet time of year. Some of the negative changes happened right at Christmas and the 4th FP wasn't rolled out for spring break. If Disney knew that this was their master plan and didn't inform guests, they were pretty much being a big old bully.

In scenario 2, Disney isn't quite sure what's going on. "I think maybe we can give 3 FPs in advance to everyone at every park. Oops! Soarin' and TT are booked in advance. There's nothing left. I guess we better put some tiers in place. Well, we've got this great new system, but people are still pulling lots of paper FPs. Perhaps we should force them to all use FP+s and not paper. Well, we can't stress the system too much. Let's just pick one resort and make people use only FP+s. How about Pop? Oh, the average guest uses three FPs per day. If we let them pre-book three FPs, they'll be thrilled. They won't have to get up early to go to TSMM. What's that you say? With the tiers, they still have to get up early to ride RNRC? And people really want to book FPs in multiple parks? But we don't exactly have enough capacity for prebooking that way. Boy, people are getting really ornery. Have you seen the FB page? We had to turn off the comments. Yikes! Okay. I guess we'll need to add in more FP+s somehow. Let's send a survey about what the best way to do that will be. And then we'll post on the blog letting them know that enhancements are coming, but we're not exactly sure when. Let's say "spring." It's our most generic timeframe. We'll put in hopping and more FPs. But for now, they'll need to use the kiosks. Back to the drawing board to see what we can do about prebooking in multiple parks and that "rolling 3" option we put on the survey and got everyone all excited about."

In scenario 2, Disney is just kind of clueless and unprepared. When they realize there is an issue, they try to fix it in a kind of haphazard way.

Based on my experience with Disney in general and Disney IT in particular (not just MDE, but dining, reservations, tickets, and pretty much everything else), I just see scenario 2 as much more likely.

Whether you like FP+ or not, I think it is very hard to make the argument that Disney did a fantastic job with the rollout. So, they are either sneaky and underhanded and implemented their grand MASTER FP+ Plan at the expense of unsuspecting guests or they made some mistakes and couldn't quite get FP+ right but are trying their best to make improvements to please their guests.

I know which one gives me a more positive impression of Disney. YMMV.

The point is the additional FP+ qty and park hopping was in the original plans 7 years ago, not just "added" as a result of feedback 7 years later. It may have been offered and unveiled as a result of feedback showing the high popularity of the program and guests wanting more of a good thing-but that's why many of us were on board with FP+ from the start. It was obvious this "system" was designed with endless possibilities-and many changes/enhancements still to come. And once again for the record-seasons and future expansion will have a huge impact on additional qty and selection, just like with FP-
 


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