Explosions and shootings in Paris

In his letter, McVeigh said he was an agnostic but that he would "improvise, adapt and overcome", if it turned out there was an afterlife. "If I'm going to hell," he wrote, "I'm gonna have a lot of company." His body is to be cremated and his ashes scattered in a secret location.”(SEE NOTE 5)http://www.tektonics.org/guest/mcveigh.htm

http://archive.adl.org/mcveigh/faq.html#.Vko6L79V5J4
1. Was Timothy McVeigh connected to the militia movement?

No, he was not. He was not really connected to any particular movement. On the "hate" side, he obviously loved "The Turner Diaries" by William Pierce and read The Spotlight, the publication of the extremist and anti-Semitic Liberty Lobby. On the "anti-government" side, he attended a couple of militia meetings and half-heartedly attempted to start a militia group in Arizona, which came to nothing. He never really joined anything, either as a card-carrying member or even an explicit endorsement. This is also one reason why there was little support for McVeigh, simply because no one viewed him as one of "their own."



I don't see where he was connected to any "group" or was a Christian.
Are you reading from the court documents? Several other members of McVeigh's group agreed to testify in exchange for reduced sentences or are in the Witness Protection Program. The court documents and the ATF documents that were released identified his various group affiliations, his anti Semitic and anti Government views, the people in these groups who had direct knowledge and assisted with the bomb (one of whom avoided the death penalty by agreeing to cooperate). If he wasn't connected to a group, why would those other people either be sitting in a federal prison or in Witness Protection. And most critically, if the BATF, the FBI, the CIA and the Dept of Justice all consider Timothy McVeigh a domestic terrorist with ties to the militia movement, it really doesn't matter what you, me or anybody else thinks about it. The Feds have made their opinion clear. That's what they call him and his conspirators. Terrorists. So if you have some beef with that, take it up with the Federal government.
 
I do not know, but my guess would be that like many things in life, definitely many things pertaining to the Middle East, that is a question likely to have many answers. I have personally considered them as part of the Middle East as they have in my memory participated numerous times in Middle East peace talks as participant player, not negotiator.
Excellent. I will research my history on this. Like all Middle Eastern and North African countries, Egypt is a fiercely proud place. They take their role as the seat of civilization seriously! I am always willing to adjust if I am wrong.
 

Excellent. I will research my history on this. Like all Middle Eastern and North African countries, Egypt is a fiercely proud place. They take their role as the seat of civilization seriously! I am always willing to adjust if I am wrong.

Did you see my post above with the explanation of the Middle East?
 
Here in the US, they tend to target abortion providers:
* Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by anti-abortion terrorist Scott Roeder in 2009.
* James Barrett murdered abortion doctor John Britton and his bodyguard James Barrett in 1994. He was executed for his crimes and is considered by some a martyr.
* Eric Rudolph, who was the Olympic bomber who killed Alice Hawthorne and wounded 111 others in 1996. He also detonated bombs in an abortion clinic that killed Robert Sanderson in 1997.

As for organizations, I would also include:
* The Army of God, for their support of people who killed above
* Westboro Baptist Church, for their inflammatory rhetoric

Very close to home, in 2012 white supremacist Wade Michael Page killed Sikh in Oak Creek, WI thinking him to be Muslim. While it's not clear that Page was Christian, he certainly was not Muslim or Jewish.

Non-US Terrorists include Jospeh Kony and Lord's Resistance Army.

So because someone who was certainly not Muslim nor Jewish murdered someone else because they mistakenly believed they were Muslim they must be Christian, despite no evidence supporting that claim? Isn't that the same kind of ignorance that caused him to slaughter an innocent man -- erroneously?

Sure sounds like the pathway to peace to me.
 
/
Is it one or the other?
I don't even pretend to know the answer. There's no simple or easy solution. Although, pretending they've been contained..the "nothing to see here" attitude, isn't working either
 
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Once again:

No debating or arguing with other posters. (Feel free to utilize private conversations for your back-and-forth with another poster.)

No politics.

Thank you.
 
We are talking about ISIS here and their RECENT terrorist attacks. They have an agenda against the West, and have made and carried out specific threats against us. I'm not sure why the discussion keeps getting re-routed.

"The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL; Arabic: الدولة الإسلامية في العراق والشام‎), also known as the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS, /ˈaɪsɨs/), the Islamic State of Iraq and ash-Sham,[28] or simply Islamic State (IS),[29] is a Wahhabi/Salafi jihadist extremist militant group and self-proclaimed Islamic state and caliphate, which is led by and mainly composed of Sunni Arabs from Iraq and Syria. As of March 2015, it has control over territory occupied by ten million people in Iraq and Syria, and through loyal local groups, has control over small areas of Libya, Nigeriaand Afghanistan. The group also operates or has affiliates in other parts of the world, including North Africa and South Asia.[30][31][32][33][34][35]

The group is known in Arabic as ad-Dawlah al-Islāmiyah fī 'l-ʿIrāq wa-sh-Shām, leading to the acronym Da'ish or Daesh (داعش, Arabic pronunciation: [ˈdaːʕiʃ]),[36][37] the Arabic equivalent of "ISIL". On 29 June 2014, the group proclaimed itself to be a worldwide caliphate, with Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi being named its caliph, and renamed itself ad-Dawlah al-Islāmiyah (الدولة الإسلامية, "Islamic State" (IS)). As a caliphate, it claims religious, political and military authority over all Muslims worldwide, and that "the legality of all emirates, groups, states, and organisations, becomes null by the expansion of the khilāfah's [caliphate's] authority and arrival of its troops to their areas".[28][38][39][40] The United Nations has held ISIL responsible for human rights abuses and war crimes, and Amnesty International has reported ethnic cleansing by the group on a "historic scale". The group has been designated a terrorist organisation by the United Nations, the European Union and member states, the United States, India, Indonesia, Israel, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Syria and other countries. Over 60 countries are directly or indirectly waging war against ISIL.

The group originated as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in 1999, which pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda in 2004. The group participated in the Iraqi insurgency that followed the March 2003 invasion of Iraq by Western forces. In January 2006, it joined other Sunni insurgent groups to form the Mujahideen Shura Council, which proclaimed the formation of the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) in October 2006. After the Syrian Civil War began in March 2011, the ISI, under the leadership of al-Baghdadi, sent delegates into Syria in August 2011. These fighters named themselves Jabhat an-Nuṣrah li-Ahli ash-Shāmal-Nusra Front—and established a large presence in Sunni-majority areas of Syria, within the governorates of Ar-Raqqah, Idlib, Deir ez-Zor, and Aleppo. In April 2013, al-Baghdadi announced the merger of the ISI with al-Nusra Front and that the name of the reunited group was now the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL). However, Abu Mohammad al-Julani and Ayman al-Zawahiri, the leaders of al-Nusra and al-Qaeda respectively, rejected the merger. After an eight-month power struggle, al-Qaeda cut all ties with ISIL on 3 February 2014, citing its failure to consult and "notorious intransigence". In Syria, the group has conducted ground attacks on both government forces and rebel factions in the Syrian Civil War. The group gained prominence after it drove Iraqi government forces out of key cities in western Iraq in an offensive initiated in early 2014. Iraq's territorial loss almost caused a collapse of the Iraqi government and prompted a renewal of US military action in Iraq.[3][41][42][43]

ISIL is adept at social media, posting Internet videos of beheadings of soldiers, civilians, journalists and aid workers, and is known for its destruction of cultural heritage sites. Muslim leaders around the world have condemned ISIL's ideology and actions, arguing that the group has strayed from the path of true Islam and that its actions do not reflect the religion's true teachings or virtues.[44][45] The group's adoption of the name "Islamic State" and idea of a caliphate have been widely criticised, with the United Nations, NATO, various governments, and mainstream Muslim groups rejecting both."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

"A worldwide caliphate is the concept of a single theocratic one-world government as proposed by some Muslims, in particular Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.[1][2] In 2014, Baghdadi claimed to have succeeded in the creation of a worldwide caliphate.[3] On April 8, 2006, the Daily Times of Pakistan reported that at a rally held in Islamabad the militant organization Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan called for the formation of a Worldwide Caliphate, which was to begin in Pakistan.[4]

Hizb ut-Tahrir, a pan-Islamic political organization, believes that all Muslims should unite in a worldwide caliphate[5][6] that will "challenge, and ultimately conquer, the West."[7] While extremists often commit acts of violence in pursuit of this goal, it is alleged to lack appeal among a wider Islamic audience.[8] Brigitte Gabriel argues that the goal of a worldwide caliphate is central to the enterprise of radical Islam.[9]"
 
You must be kidding if you think you can compare the scope of abortion center attacks to ISIS-style attacks. Really??
I think the mentality is the same.
The mentality that your "cause" is ordained by God, that you will be rewarded in the afterlife and that any means is justifiable and anyone who disagrees is evil to be eradicated. i have no doubt in my mind that the Women's clinic attackers would blow up every center in the US and kill every Dr who provided these services if they could.

Yes the scope is smaller, the people who commit the attacks are absolutely cut from the same evil cloth.
 
I don't even pretend to know the answer. There's no simple or easy solution. Although, pretending they've been contained..the "nothing to see here" attitude, isn't working either

Agreed, so what we need is to first admit that both these tactics are not working. We are not going to bomb our way out of this, ever. in fact, imo all it will do is make us feel good and give us a false since of "we're winning".

Israel has been trying to wipe the Palestinian off the face of the earth since Jesus was a boy. not much luck
 
Agreed, so what we need is to first admit that both these tactics are not working. We are not going to bomb our way out of this, ever. in fact, imo all it will do is make us feel good and give us a false since of "we're winning".

Israel has been trying to wipe the Palestinian off the face of the earth since Jesus was a boy. not much luck

Israel is rather a fairly recent idea as a state. The Palestinian identity is actually independent of religion.
 
Israel has been trying to wipe the Palestinian off the face of the earth since Jesus was a boy. not much luck

This is simply incorrect. Are you aware that back when Jesus was a boy the Jewish population in the region was very much under the control of both the people of Palestine and the Romans? It would be more accurate to say the Jewish people of the region were fighting for day to day survival at that time while under subjugation. I won't even attempt to delve into the modern era of the state of Israel as we know it today.
 

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