Explosions and shootings in Paris

[littleblackegg]

Yes, I heard about Isis planned attack on DC.

Very scary.

Call me cynical, but I assume big terrorist groups are always planning attacks on big US cities.

 

[cabanafrau]

When I said "opinion-based view" I had meant the selective grief, not the actual action of the temporary profile picture, however, I see where you're going as I guess it stems from the exact same issue. I think that if you are going to use Paris as the basis for the change from natural disasters to also include terrorist attacks, why did it start with Paris? Why couldn't it have started earlier in the week when Kenya and Lebanon lost all of those people? And I think from an opinion-based view, it looks sketchy as all heck. But we'll never know, I guess. Of course to POC it gives us a sour taste in our mouth that France, a predominately white country, gets the profile picture and the brown countries didn't. From my view (going back to opinion-based) it rings true that it feels like selective grief, not to say that people were/are not aware of what happens/happened in other countries, but it didn't get the attention that France got. Of course, one friend said, "France is known as a peaceful country," so maybe I don't know my history too well as it's not like my history classes all through my childhood really included anything outside of the US ('cause 'Merica), so the reaction was stark. The reaction was complete shock.

In any case, I'm babbling a wee bit. I'd love to get more in depth with this (and learn from other views as well), but it's time for me to go on break. I'll be back soon-ish.

I was under the impression we were still discussing the Facebook safety feature. As I said, perhaps the decision was made under the drip, drip, drip of cumulative events, the pace of which seems to be gathering speed, rather than some racial, ethnic or color-based bias, which you freely admit you're applying to your analysis of that decision, and now apparently America's expression of condolence and grief as well.

People tend to be shaken when bad news of tragedies is heard. It tends to become more personal and magnified when that news is about what is considered an old friend. You've no doubt experienced this yourself when hearing about people dying in your own community. If you see a story on the news about someone dying in a car crash you no doubt think it's sad, but when you hear the story of another victim of a car crash who turns out to be someone you worked with eight years ago it hits you that much harder because you know their spouse, know they have kids, etc. Both are sad losses of life, one just strikes more of a nerve for you personally.

I'm struggling to find the words to say this without causing offense, but perhaps consider some personal responsibility in addressing self admitted gaps in your knowledge of history rather than laying it at the feet of your fellow citizens. Public libraries all over the United States of America have an ample supply of books you can borrow for free to get you up to speed. Some of those books will no doubt give backstory to recent comments about France possibly being America's oldest friend and might give some different shades of understanding to the magnified expression of grief.

Particularly in light of the danger facing all people who want to live in peace and freedom, I see zero point in trying to cause further divisions and strife. People can see things differently and hold different beliefs and still manage to coexist peacefully in a free and civilized society.

 

[mom2rtk]

Call me cynical, but I assume big terrorist groups are always planning attacks on big US cities.

I think what's different here is that this group actually just pulled one off.

 

[kandb]

I wonder of the Islamic extremist/watchlist /possible terrorists, in this country, what percentage of them are homegrown and what percentage of them came to our country from other countries? Does anyone know how many people are on watchlists in this country? They are now saying that
Wash DC is where they will hit next. They said they were going to hit France and they did.

 

[littleblackegg]

I NEVER said don't stand with Kenya and Beirut. What I said was that France showed solidarity with the US after 9/11 and many people remember that, plus America is much more like France then it is like Kenya/Beirut, so I think people identify with the people there more. DON'T put words in peoples mouths to fit your own agenda.

And how is the US much more like France than Kenya or Beirut? These places have skyscrapers and malls and posh homes, and the US has children who live in homes with no running water or electricity. The only reason people know so little about the Middle East or the African continent is a lack of information. We are all exactly alike. And people in France eat snails.

 

[kandb]

Am I the only one who remembers freedom fries a year and a half later ?

Your lucky it's something you could forget so easily, unfortunately for over 3,000 people's families, I am sure they were not just thinking about French fries.

 

[EMom]

When I said "opinion-based view" I had meant the selective grief, not the actual action of the temporary profile picture, however, I see where you're going as I guess it stems from the exact same issue. I think that if you are going to use Paris as the basis for the change from natural disasters to also include terrorist attacks, why did it start with Paris? Why couldn't it have started earlier in the week when Kenya and Lebanon lost all of those people? And I think from an opinion-based view, it looks sketchy as all heck. But we'll never know, I guess. Of course to POC it gives us a sour taste in our mouth that France, a predominately white country, gets the profile picture and the brown countries didn't. From my view (going back to opinion-based) it rings true that it feels like selective grief, not to say that people were/are not aware of what happens/happened in other countries, but it didn't get the attention that France got. Of course, one friend said, "France is known as a peaceful country," so maybe I don't know my history too well as it's not like my history classes all through my childhood really included anything outside of the US ('cause 'Merica), so the reaction was stark. The reaction was complete shock.

In any case, I'm babbling a wee bit. I'd love to get more in depth with this (and learn from other views as well), but it's time for me to go on break. I'll be back soon-ish.

Was World History not required at your high school?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Depends on what you are trying to compare, I guess. I was trying to compare the culture of radicalization, how disenfranchised people are drawn into these movements and why they seem attractive to these individuals, and how they are convinced that doing harm is the best way of getting their message across.

It would seem to the contrary, but I don't think that being "disenfranchised" is one of the common denominators of radicalization, necessarily. Sure, it may be for some. But for others, maybe not.

From The Guardian:

What makes young British Muslims want to go to Syria? | Suraj Lakhani

The Isis recruitment video that emerged on the internet last week featuring two men from Cardiff and another from Aberdeen has caught the media's attention across the UK. However, the issue of young British Muslims travelling to Syria has been a real concern to those working on the counter-terrorism agenda for many months now.

One of the main questions being asked is how are these young British Muslims becoming radicalised. Well, it is not something that happens overnight. It is a process of influence and persuasion that eventually leads to a change in world view and beliefs. It is an extremely complex phenomenon, and many factors are likely to play a role in it.

This is not just about the eternal rewards people mention when talking of "jihad" (though these are extremely important). It is also about those involved with these types of activities feeling special and significant; it is about them tapping into the perception held by certain people that extremism is cool; and it is a chance for them to be able to demonstrate their masculinity and define a distinct identity for themselves. It gives them an escape from their potentially normal and predictable lives.

The excitement of travelling abroad on an adventure plays its part, as does the exhilaration they may feel when they get to handle powerful military hardware. When I was collecting empirical data for my PhD in Cardiff I interviewed a number of individuals who once fought in places like Bosnia and Afghanistan. Many of them reflected on the emotions they felt before they travelled. As one particular respondent explained, "I was 19 … I got some military action and we fired guns, Kalashnikovs, M16s, hand grenades, 36mm canon and all this stuff, incredibly exciting. It would give you an adrenaline rush."

Why is it important to mention this? Well, those former jihadis I interviewed explained how their opinion of the situation quickly changed when they were faced with the harsh reality of war, death and destruction. The romantic image they had of "brothers" going out together on an adventure vanished when they witnessed first-hand the corpses and mutilated bodies.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-british-muslims-reality-war-fight-extremism

The article goes on to say how they think that getting word out of the reality to young men wanting to radicalize will help quell their desires, as a pp mentioned above.

 

[mnrose]

I'm not saying they aren't allowing you to change your picture to the Lebananese flag. What I mean is that right now Facebook has added the ability to take your existing profile picture and cover it with a semi-transparent French flag. All you have to do is click a button. But only a French flag. They didn't do that for Kenya in April. They didn't do that for Lebanon. I know it's minor, and very picky. It's just interesting to me that one's more important than others.

The answer to your question is obvious. White, anglo-saxon lives are more important than those other lives. I hate to say that. But, we all know it's true.

 

[asta]

I think some people underestimate the power of the knowledge that not only can we but also that we will bomb you into oblivion. If someone knows that terrorists are operating out of their areas/neighborhoods then we must make those people understand that it is their responsibility as a member of the human race to expose their activity. If not then they risk their lives also. If I knew that my neighborhood might be destroyed for harboring murderers it would motivate me to look under every rock and cranny to help get rid of the threat before anything happened. Same goes for peaceful Muslims who look the other way when radical clerics indoctrinate future terrorists. The battle to stop these extremists should start in their homes and their communities. It is way past time for other Muslims to stop looking the other way.

These people do not live in a vacuum. I refuse to believe that only the ones who blew themselves up knew what was going on. We keep relying on those around them to develop a conscious and report them. Maybe they need some encouragement.

 

[mnrose]

Sorry. *sigh* Not worth the points.

#weakspeech

#cheapshot #political

 

[cabanafrau]

The answer to your question is obvious. White, anglo-saxon lives are more important than those other lives. I hate to say that. But, we all know it's true.

We doesn't include me.

I'll do my own thinking and speak for myself, thank you.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

I think some people underestimate the power of the knowledge that not only can we but also that we will bomb you into oblivion. If someone knows that terrorists are operating out of their areas/neighborhoods then we must make those people understand that it is their responsibility as a member of the human race to expose their activity. If not then they risk their lives also. If I knew that my neighborhood might be destroyed for harboring murderers it would motivate me to look under every rock and cranny to help get rid of the threat before anything happened. Same goes for peaceful Muslims who look the other way when radical clerics indoctrinate future terrorists. The battle to stop these extremists should start in their homes and their communities. It is way past time for other Muslims to stop looking the other way.

These people do not live in a vacuum. I refuse to believe that only the ones who blew themselves up knew what was going on. We keep relying on those around them to develop a conscious and report them. Maybe they need some encouragement.

So all Muslims are to blame because they must know something? When are we going to start holding Christians accountable for homegrown terrorists? No we never look beyond the immediate family for that. But Muslims, yes they are all in on it. Talk about an extreme view of a faith with absolutely nothing to back it up.

 

[declansdad]

I NEVER said don't stand with Kenya and Beirut. What I said was that France showed solidarity with the US after 9/11 and many people remember that, plus America is much more like France then it is like Kenya/Beirut, so I think people identify with the people there more. DON'T put words in peoples mouths to fit your own agenda.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was trying to understand what you were saying. DON'T jump to conclusions.

 

[eliza61]

Ignoring them and pretending they don't exist, hasn't proven to be effective. They've been underestimated, more than a few times, and haven't been subdued.

Is it one or the other?
for the last 14 years we've been bombing, so evidently they are not afraid of the bombs. So we drop a nuke on them, then someone drops a nuke on us and then what?/

Wasn't that the plot of 'War games". total annihilation of 1/2 the globe including us, is not what I would call a winning strategy.

 

[declansdad]

The answer to your question is obvious. White, anglo-saxon lives are more important than those other lives. I hate to say that. But, we all know it's true.

I don't think it is that at all. With the Facebook thing, they would simply be reacting to all the activity that was happening on their pages.

 

[luvsJack]

I don't think it has as much to do with the color of the skin of the citizens of the country as some want it to. How many times has Obama said "France is one of our closest allies"? That is what makes the difference. If England or Canada was attacked don't you think it would overshadow anything going on in any other country on our news? Of course it would. Stop trying to make is something its not.

 

[littleblackegg]

It would seem to the contrary, but I don't think that being "disenfranchised" is one of the common denominators of radicalization, necessarily. Sure, it may be for some. But for others, maybe not.

From The Guardian:

What makes young British Muslims want to go to Syria? | Suraj Lakhani

The Isis recruitment video that emerged on the internet last week featuring two men from Cardiff and another from Aberdeen has caught the media's attention across the UK. However, the issue of young British Muslims travelling to Syria has been a real concern to those working on the counter-terrorism agenda for many months now.

One of the main questions being asked is how are these young British Muslims becoming radicalised. Well, it is not something that happens overnight. It is a process of influence and persuasion that eventually leads to a change in world view and beliefs. It is an extremely complex phenomenon, and many factors are likely to play a role in it.

This is not just about the eternal rewards people mention when talking of "jihad" (though these are extremely important). It is also about those involved with these types of activities feeling special and significant; it is about them tapping into the perception held by certain people that extremism is cool; and it is a chance for them to be able to demonstrate their masculinity and define a distinct identity for themselves. It gives them an escape from their potentially normal and predictable lives.

The excitement of travelling abroad on an adventure plays its part, as does the exhilaration they may feel when they get to handle powerful military hardware. When I was collecting empirical data for my PhD in Cardiff I interviewed a number of individuals who once fought in places like Bosnia and Afghanistan. Many of them reflected on the emotions they felt before they travelled. As one particular respondent explained, "I was 19 … I got some military action and we fired guns, Kalashnikovs, M16s, hand grenades, 36mm canon and all this stuff, incredibly exciting. It would give you an adrenaline rush."

Why is it important to mention this? Well, those former jihadis I interviewed explained how their opinion of the situation quickly changed when they were faced with the harsh reality of war, death and destruction. The romantic image they had of "brothers" going out together on an adventure vanished when they witnessed first-hand the corpses and mutilated bodies.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-british-muslims-reality-war-fight-extremism

The article goes on to say how they think that getting word out of the reality to young men wanting to radicalize will help quell their desires, as a pp mentioned above.

This is fascinating. Thank you. I remember reading an article in the New Yorker about two years ago talking about who was more likely to be drawn into a radical lifestyle of any type, including a cult. Apparently, the more social "eggs" one has in the basket (wealth, education, engaged parents, health, mental health, friends, hobbies, talents, extended family, pets, spouse, children, etc) the more grounded to social/economic/community stability you are. Of course, this is for people who have basic mental health, because there are extremes. Disenfranchisement occurs when the eggs start coming out of the basket due to economic instability or family ******* or any number of things. As the elements to stability fall away, the individual becomes vulnerable to any force that makes the person feel special and important. It is very difficult to drag a happy, stable, satisfied person away from his or her life. Certainly not impossible, but difficult.

 

[BadgerGirl84]

So all Muslims are to blame because they must know something? When are we going to start holding Christians accountable for homegrown terrorists? No we never look beyond the immediate family for that. But Muslims, yes they are all in on it. Talk about an extreme view of a faith with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Which homegrown terrorists have committed acts of terror in the name of their Christian religion? Or shouted Christian phrases in the midst of their killing similar to Allah Akbar?

 

[littleblackegg]

Was World History not required at your high school?

Apparently, they don't teach any of that stuff any more. I overheard a young person saying yesterday that Egypt is in the Middle East. I put my head on the cool, smooth countertop to stay calm.