Explosions and shootings in Paris

Their reasons don't really matter. Any group that engages in this type of attack doesn't deserve to have their voice heard. They need to be hunted down and wiped out - and we need to be prepared for a prolonged engagement so we can continue to go after every new group that pops up. We've seen how letting up only serves to let their influence grow.
 
...It has been confirmed that 1 of the attackers was born in Paris, another is from Serbia. They are not foreigners from countries who breed these extremists who crept into Europe as illegal refugees. ISIS is recruiting people who then go and bomb the Western cities they are born in.
This fact cannot be ignored. It is to our own peril that we continue to see ISIS as a horde of anonamous "foreign bogeymen". There have been over a dozen Canadian citizens from my own city who have been verified to have been killed in Syria and Iraq after having migrated there to join the ISIS cause, including some who DO NOT come from a middle-eastern background and were converted to Islam locally. A dozen may not sound like many, but from a place as benign and low-profile as Calgary, Alberta, obviously it represents the mere tip of a very dangerous iceberg. The murderer who attacked our seat of government last year was one such as this - home-grown, if you will. And being as Canada is "officially" identified by ISIS as a target due to our engagement in Afghanistan, it certainly begs the question as to whether striving to land 500 Syrian refugees PER DAY, without adequate screening, between now and the end of the year is a good idea. If only a small fraction of them are ISIS leaders ready to oversee the "sleepers" that we must acknowledge are already in our midst, Canada could become "occupied" in very short order.
 
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If a stranger knocked on your door and said, " I am homeless and afraid. Will you allow me to live with your family in your home? Will you feed me and give me money...support me?"

Would you say, "but of course, you may live with me, my spouse and children." Would you feel safe and comfortable doing so, without knowing, who they are, where they are from ...no background check or verification?
 
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ISIS released a statement about 24 hours, claiming responsibility and saying WHY the targeted France
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...g-at-least-127-people-in-french-a6734546.html

In the statement they say that the Paris attacks were because of the bombing of ISIS in Syria
Them and groups like them would jump at the chance to hurt the West if the wind was blowing wrong.

They are raging a "holy war"; mujahideen. We are infidels. Don't buy what they're selling.
 
It has been confirmed that 1 of the attackers was born in Paris, another is from Serbia. They are not foreigners from countries who breed these extremists who crept into Europe as illegal refugees. ISIS is recruiting people who then go and bomb the Western cities they are born in.

@Dan Murphy you are taking one sentence, quoting it out of context and twisting it for your own agenda. I was speaking SPECIFICALLY about the French and Serbia attackers
 
If a stranger knocked on your door and said, " I am homeless and afraid. Will you allow me to live your family in your home? Will you feed me and give me money...support me.?"

Would you say, "but of course, you may live with me, my spouse and children." Would you feel safe and comfortable doing so, without knowing, who they are, where they are from ...no background check or verification?

I agree, and I think it is a lovely idea for western countries to want to be humanitarian and give aid and shelter to refugees...that would be nice in an ideal world or in a different time. However we are dealing with a known and obvious and very real threat and the lives and well being of OUR OWN COUNTRYMEN are important too. At this time in history we are smart to say, sorry your life sucks, but we can't risk ourselves. I know that is cold, but I don't care. It is better for civilization in the long run.
 
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@Dan Murphy you are taking one sentence, quoting it out of context and twisting it for your own agenda. I was speaking SPECIFICALLY about the French and Serbia attackers
Specifics accepted. Those you referenced do not appear to have come in with the refugees. Apparently, at least one of the others does seem to have.
 
Looking at where and how they chose to strike, they hit at the heart of a major western city at a time they knew would effect maximum damage, i.e. a Friday night when the city was hopping, and under the cover of darkness.
 
@Dan Murphy you are taking one sentence, quoting it out of context and twisting it for your own agenda. I was speaking SPECIFICALLY about the French and Serbia attackers
It is being reported, that at least one entered with a passport as a "Syrian Refugee"...possibly two. Is this untrue?
 
I really don't think this is the time to get hung up on terms like "agenda" @BadPinkTink.

We all need to take a cold, hard look at what his happening here and how we can protect ourselves. Can't most of us agree on at least that?


I think it is very, very hard to protect yourself against single (or small groups of) armed attackers. Your only hope is intelligence to stop them in advance, and with small groups (or a lone gunman) very, very, very hard to do. It's easy to get weapons in this country (we've had this discussion many times). Easy to arm yourself, and if you are hellbent on killing a bunch of people in a crowded place, you can. It's that simple. Yes, we can hope that someone else is there with a gun to stop them (and knows how to properly use that gun so as not to increase the body count). But, seriously, is there anything else you can do? I don't think so.

I suppose we can do a LOT more screening (ala airport screenings) at places where people gather...concerts, sporting events, malls, etc), but this costs a great deal of money (who's paying?), AND is going to result in us screening out all those "concealed carry people" who are supposedly going to rush in and save us all from the mad gunman. You really could NOT set up an effective system where you let in some people with guns, and screen out other people with guns...again, especially considering the "home grown" terrorist thing.

Many of these lone gunman (in this country anyway) are homegrown OR have been here for a very long time. Should we start rounding up all loners? All people of Middle Eastern descent? All (insert group name here)? Probably not. Should we screen people on a watch list and work on deporting them (within legal means)? Certainly. Homegrown people are a much different problem. You can't "deport" them. They belong here. Revoking US citizenship for someone BORN here is virtually impossible (indeed, they must "renounce" their US citizenship, it cannot be taken away). You can't lock them up, unless and until they ACTUALLY do something illegal. We can't (and never should) lock up people for "evil thoughts" alone (beyond the issue of how you even prove they are having evil thoughts). And, unfortunately (again) most of the time, their first illegal action is lethal, and results in their own death.

So, I just don't know what you CAN do in the short term when you've got people who don't play by conventional rules. Conventional rules say that self-preservation is goal number one...that is, people don't do this type of stuff because the chances of you surviving the attack are virtually nil. Therefore, you don't do it. But, these young men (almost universally young men) don't share that goal. They don't care if they die.

If that is true, we've got to work on that part. We've got to get them to care whether they live or die. Much harder nut to crack, I think.
 
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From George Takei, on Facebook:
For the benefit of people unfamiliar with George Takei's biography, he spent several years of his childhood in an American internment camp for Japanese-Americans. He and his mother were both born in the US, while his father was born in Japan.

The musical "Allegiance", in which he's now performing, is based in part on his experiences in the internment camp.
 
But, these young men (almost universally young men) don't share that goal. They don't care if they die.

If that is true, we've got to work on that part. We've got to get them to care whether they live or die. Much harder nut to crack, I think.
And, it's all stems from hatred, divisiveness and intolerance. We have vulnerable, uneducated people being taught this from the cradle. A dangerous combination, that's not unique to just immigrants or refugees.
 
I really don't think this is the time to get hung up on terms like "agenda" @BadPinkTink.

We all need to take a cold, hard look at what his happening here and how we can protect ourselves. Can't most of us agree on at least that?

Yes we can agree on that. Injecting a tangential agenda into the situation won't work.

There's only 3 choices:
1) Fully commit to dealing with the problem now.
2) Fully commit to dealing with the problem later.
3) Die
 
SKY NEWS reporting one of the attackers was of Algerian background, who had been living in France, who then travelled to Syria to train with ISIS and then returned to Europe via Greece using a FAKE Syrian passport.
 
If a stranger knocked on your door and said, " I am homeless and afraid. Will you allow me to live your family in your home? Will you feed me and give me money...support me.?"

Would you say, "but of course, you may live with me, my spouse and children." Would you feel safe and comfortable doing so, without knowing, who they are, where they are from ...no background check or verification?

I am NOT saying that allowing refugees into our country is a good idea, however, even if we refuse every single person, the reality is the terrorists will continue to terrorize, they will continue to get into our country one way or another, and they will be successful on occasion in causing destruction and devastation. In my opinion, there is absolutely no way to take them all out. We can take precautions, but as we've shown in the past, background checks don't always mean much. This isn't as "simple" as WWll. We don't know who the enemy is. They can be our own citizens, living in caves across the globe, or mixed in with packs of truly good people. This isn't a war where we go off and dig trenches and exchange gun fire with the enemy until one side prevails. These guys are like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Considering the population in this world, they really do make up a very small percentage, yet they are able to cause massive destruction. It's just so sad.
 
If I live to 100 I'll never understand how anyone comes to the viewpoint that slaughtering unarmed civilians is the way to win hearts and minds to an ideology.

I hope we are finally at the point where civilized humanity can set aside the pettiness of politics and stand shoulder to shoulder against those who threaten peaceful civility and independent liberty and put an end to the horror at long last.

Prayers to all who are suffering the loss of these attacks, and all of civilized humanity longing for peace.
 

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