Explosions and shootings in Paris

If I live to 100 I'll never understand how anyone comes to the viewpoint that slaughtering unarmed civilians is the way to win hearts and minds to an ideology.

I hope we are finally at the point where civilized humanity can set aside the pettiness of politics and stand shoulder to shoulder against those who threaten peaceful civility and independent liberty and put an end to the horror at long last.

Prayers to all who are suffering the loss of these attacks, and all of civilized humanity longing for peace.
You're struggling to understand the wrong thing. ISIS does not care one whit for your heart or mind. Subjugation to a universal Caliphate does not require anybody's "buy-in". Don't make the mistake of confusing this with the evangelistic theologies of other (non-violent) religious systems.

After 9/11 there were many many people locked up with out reason. The NYPD counter teeriosm task force was arresting people for imigration issues and then leaving them in jail for years. Others were locked up simply because their name matched a known terriost even though they were not that person.
And under the circumstances, I must mournfully say "SO BE IT".
 
Frightening to realize that for those who seek to terrorize civilized society their soldiers don't need to be trained, they don't need to be strong adherents of the "faith" or ideology, they don't need to be funded, they don't need to be anything but riled up to stir up trouble any and everywhere, effectively operating as cannon fodder when the are released into society again.
::yes::
 
I really don't think this is the time to get hung up on terms like "agenda" @BadPinkTink.

We all need to take a cold, hard look at what his happening here and how we can protect ourselves. Can't most of us agree on at least that?
Thanks, Linda. Yes, correct, no agenda from my end.
 
You're struggling to understand the wrong thing. ISIS does not care one whit for your heart or mind. Subjugation to a universal Caliphate does not require anybody's "buy-in". Don't make the mistake of confusing this with the evangelistic theologies of other (non-violent) religious systems.


And under the circumstances, I must mournfully say "SO BE IT".

At several levels they do indeed require the "buy-in" of hearts and minds. That's how and why they manage to attract American, Canadian, French, British, etc., etc., jihadis to travel to their training camps, receive instruction and return home as zealous killing machines. They're well aware the best way to attack other nations is via natives turned zealots. They're also no doubt planning how they will maintain control as they anticipate conquests outside their homeland.

What's even more incomprehensible is the women buying in. How could anyone with functioning brain cells think working towards such a demonstrably "female friendly" way of life is a good idea? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize the danger of those who view rape as a form of prayer being in control.
 

And under the circumstances, I must mournfully say "SO BE IT".

You do understand I'm not talking about a 2 week hold where they verify the person's identity but rather years.
It is one thing to do a check and release if we go to the over cautious knee herk reaction, it is another thing to let innocents sit with out knowing their fate. It would have taken a 2 second passport and visa run to release most of the people arrested and heald after 9/11.
 
Do they need passports to reenter?
You all do realize that the majority of radicals willing to commit extreme acts LIVE right here in the USA, right? They are citizens, and those of them who are not in prison are tracked as they move around the country by the FBI and the CIA. We have to remember that these behaviors are complex, begin in the radicals country of origin, and the greatest victims are almost always the terrorist's own countrymen.
 
At several levels they do indeed require the "buy-in" of hearts and minds. That's how and why they manage to attract American, Canadian, French, British, etc., etc., jihadis to travel to their training camps, receive instruction and return home as zealous killing machines. They're well aware the best way to attack other nations is via natives turned zealots. They're also no doubt planning how they will maintain control as they anticipate conquests outside their homeland.

What's even more incomprehensible is the women buying in. How could anyone with functioning brain cells think working towards such a demonstrably "female friendly" way of life is a good idea? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize the danger of those who view rape as a form of prayer being in control.
In many, many cases (researched after the fact), Western converts are being lured by pandering to some specific ******* and/or area of vulnerability in their own lives - they do not necessarily have a deep commitment to the "larger cause". They are almost always crassly used as pawns and groomed from the beginning as suicide bombers.

You do understand I'm not talking about a 2 week hold where they verify the person's identity but rather years.
It is one thing to do a check and release if we go to the over cautious knee herk reaction, it is another thing to let innocents sit with out knowing their fate. It would have taken a 2 second passport and visa run to release most of the people arrested and heald after 9/11.
Yes, I understand. And I agree that detention is likely a dreadful experience, BUT incarceration in even the worst America or Canadian prison does not carry with it the physical or mental dangers of remaining in their home countries. I cannot and will not advocate for erring on the side of generosity given the current state of affairs.
 
/
You all do realize that the majority of radicals willing to commit extreme acts LIVE right here in the USA, right? They are citizens, and those of them who are not in prison are tracked as they move around the country by the FBI and the CIA. We have to remember that these behaviors are complex, begin in the radicals country of origin, and the greatest victims are almost always the terrorist's own countrymen.
Well aware. I live in Ma. and the Marathon bombers were home-grown.

Muslims who do not fully embrace the Koran and Sharia law and the Caliphate need to speak up. The mosques that radicalize need to be shut down. The families that see their children going off the deep end and visiting the "mother land" need to turn them in. Hard things to do, but it's what needs to happen. My goodness, if we (non-Muslims) say not to let the "refugees" in, we are called hate mongers, bigots etc....so what would happen if we said we thought a neighbor was acting suspicious? Lord we'd be ridden out on a rail for being Islamaphobic.
 
Well aware. I live in Ma. and the Marathon bombers were home-grown.

Muslims who do not fully embrace the Koran and Sharia law and the Caliphate need to speak up. The mosques that radicalize need to be shut down. The families that see their children going off the deep end and visiting the "mother land" need to turn them in. Hard things to do, but it's what needs to happen. My goodness, if we (non-Muslims) say not to let the "refugees" in, we are called hate mongers, bigots etc....so what would happen if we said we thought a neighbor was acting suspicious? Lord we'd be ridden out on a rail for being Islamaphobic.

I'm not sure I understand your use of the term "home-grown." The marathon bombers were not US born. And did they both naturalize or just the one? In any case, I wouldn't say they were home grown terrorists.
 
Well aware. I live in Ma. and the Marathon bombers were home-grown.

Muslims who do not fully embrace the Koran and Sharia law and the Caliphate need to speak up. The mosques that radicalize need to be shut down. The families that see their children going off the deep end and visiting the "mother land" need to turn them in. Hard things to do, but it's what needs to happen. My goodness, if we (non-Muslims) say not to let the "refugees" in, we are called hate mongers, bigots etc....so what would happen if we said we thought a neighbor was acting suspicious? Lord we'd be ridden out on a rail for being Islamaphobic.
Well, none of us on here knows who is or is not a Muslim, or who is or is not a member if the Christian. Because people who identify with the extreme, violent factions of their faith tend to be in the extreme minority, I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt until I know more personally. Not only my faith, but the bedrock beliefs of my nation call me to action to protect innocents. The people of Syria are victims of a terrible civil war, and extremists who want Syria's oil resources have taken advantage of the chaos. It's a terrible situation, but I have to keep perspective. The men who blew up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995 were Americans. They were part of a group who wished to remove power from the US Federal Government as part of a militia. One of them was a Gulf War veteran. Both of them had ties to radical Christian and White Supremacist groups. They killed 168 people, and I believe about 700 were injured. Extremists, with their violence and hate, are everywhere. The only way to stop them is to embrace love, kindness and understanding. If allowing 60,000 refugees means we have to screen like crazy for terrorists, so be it.
 
You all do realize that the majority of radicals willing to commit extreme acts LIVE right here in the USA, right?

Yes, I do realize, that many are "sleeping" amongst us.

My comment (wasn't really a question ;))was specifically referencing entering/reentering with or without a passport. Many are simply walking, over the borders. Only law abiding citizens require passports.
 
The only way to stop them is to embrace love, kindness and understanding. If allowing 60,000 refugees means we have to screen like crazy for terrorists, so be it.
I just an old hippie at heart...love, peace and rock 'n roll, but that sentiment isn't going to stop them. It won't even be a blip on their radar.

And honestly, WHO is screening ANYONE like crazy?
 
Well, none of us on here knows who is or is not a Muslim, or who is or is not a member if the Christian. Because people who identify with the extreme, violent factions of their faith tend to be in the extreme minority, I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt until I know more personally. Not only my faith, but the bedrock beliefs of my nation call me to action to protect innocents. The people of Syria are victims of a terrible civil war, and extremists who want Syria's oil resources have taken advantage of the chaos. It's a terrible situation, but I have to keep perspective. The men who blew up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995 were Americans. They were part of a group who wished to remove power from the US Federal Government as part of a militia. One of them was a Gulf War veteran. Both of them had ties to radical Christian and White Supremacist groups. They killed 168 people, and I believe about 700 were injured. Extremists, with their violence and hate, are everywhere. The only way to stop them is to embrace love, kindness and understanding. If allowing 60,000 refugees means we have to screen like crazy for terrorists, so be it.
Everyone wishes it were that easy but that just doesn't work. Would you advocate that nothing should have been done militarily against Hitler? We should have just embraced him with love, kindness and understanding while he burned Jewish people in concentration camps?
 
Everyone wishes it were that easy but that just doesn't work. Would you advocate that nothing should have been done militarily against Hitler? We should have just embraced him with love, kindness and understanding while he burned Jewish people in concentration camps?

They ran a more or less conventional war. Attacking a bunch of loosely affiliated entities that try to blend in with innocents is a lot more complicated.
 
'm not sure I understand your use of the term "home-grown." The marathon bombers were not US born. And did they both naturalize or just the one? In any case, I wouldn't say they were home grown terrorists.
Well, they were kids when they came here, and yes, the younger was a citizen.
 
Everyone wishes it were that easy but that just doesn't work. Would you advocate that nothing should have been done militarily against Hitler? We should have just embraced him with love, kindness and understanding while he burned Jewish people in concentration camps?
I am not sure what Hitler has to do with the civilized and polite behavior of Americans toward other people around the world.
 

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