Explosions and shootings in Paris

[Bec3b1g]

If the US, France, or any other country had intel on these ISIS training camps before today, they should have already been bombed.

 

[minnie56]

If the US, France, or any other country had intel on these ISIS training camps before today, they should have already been bombed.

Well they have now!!

 

[pat fan]

If the US, France, or any other country had intel on these ISIS training camps before today, they should have already been bombed.

You know they did. Heck, they talk about how the FBI "monitors" camps in the US!!

 

[asta]

I am not sure what Hitler has to do with the civilized and polite behavior of Americans toward other people around the world.

I used Hitler as an example of one of the worst extremists that our world has had to deal with. In reference to extremists you said that "the only way to stop them is to embrace love, kindness and understanding." We were just as civilized and polite in the 1940s as we are today but I don't think anyone would even begin to think that love, kindness and understanding would have stopped the holocaust. Just as how these methods alone will not defeat the Islamic extremists whose mission is to kill those who don't follow their religion.

 

[manning]

Everyone wishes it were that easy but that just doesn't work. Would you advocate that nothing should have been done militarily against Hitler? We should have just embraced him with love, kindness and understanding while he burned Jewish people in concentration camps?

We started out that way. Give him what he wants and we won't have war.

They say 6 million Jews were exterminated. What isn't said is that also 6 million non-Jews were also exterminated. I have a friend of the family who was in Auschwitz. One of the worse of the worse. She said if the war hadn't ended when it did she would have been dead.

She is not Jewish. She is a Polish catholic.

 

[pat fan]

We started out that way. Give him what he wants and we won't have war.

They say 6 million Jews were exterminated. What isn't said is that also 6 million non-Jews were also exterminated. I have a friend of the family who was in Auschwitz. One of the worse of the worse. She said if the war hadn't ended when it did she would have been dead.

She is not Jewish. She is a Polish catholic.

And the gypsys, gays etc...sounds like ISIS.

 

[hopemax]

Everyone wishes it were that easy but that just doesn't work. Would you advocate that nothing should have been done militarily against Hitler? We should have just embraced him with love, kindness and understanding while he burned Jewish people in concentration camps?

I doubt the PP is saying "embrace Hitler." The love and kindness, I thought, is for the refugees and "let them come to the west." Humanitarian reaction vs military. I see no universe where the world would have told the Jews to stay in Germany, or that no country should accept them, because some Nazi sympathizers might get in too. But that seems to be different than what is happening here. If we tell the refugees, "you can't come here," and we think other countries should do the same. Protect their citizens at all cost. That leaves the refugees with no place to go, and therefore in a more direct line of fire of ISIS. And therefore many more dead.

If someone sees comparisons between Hitler and ISIS, we should be rushing to assist the refugees to prevent similar outcomes. Save as many people as we can.

 

[mnrose]

And the gypsys, gays etc...sounds like ISIS.

And, if your ISIS, it also includes the millions upon millions of Muslims who don't think like you do. They really don't discriminate. In fact, one could argue that it's better to be a Christian....they only get subjugated in their world. Muslims who don't tow the line get beheaded or crucified.

What that means? The Muslim refugees who are fleeing from Syria and other areas (because of ISIS) are fleeing for their lives, literally.

 

[ols386]

Way to go, France! That's some quick, decisive action!

Yes it is.

 

[kimmar067]

You're struggling to understand the wrong thing. ISIS does not care one whit for your heart or mind. Subjugation to a universal Caliphate does not require anybody's "buy-in". Don't make the mistake of confusing this with the evangelistic theologies of other (non-violent) religious systems....

....and therein lies the MAJOR difference.

 

[bcla]

And, if your ISIS, it also includes the millions upon millions of Muslims who don't think like you do. They really don't discriminate. In fact, one could argue that it's better to be a Christian....they only get subjugated in their world. Muslims who don't tow the line get beheaded or crucified.

There are cases where ISIS has executed Christians. Most cases are for refusal to convert to Islam.

 

[mom2rtk]

And, if your ISIS, it also includes the millions upon millions of Muslims who don't think like you do. They really don't discriminate. In fact, one could argue that it's better to be a Christian....they only get subjugated in their world. Muslims who don't tow the line get beheaded or crucified.

What that means? The Muslim refugees who are fleeing from Syria and other areas (because of ISIS) are fleeing for their lives, literally.

I believe they have killed a large number of Christians as well.

 

[pat fan]

In fact, one could argue that it's better to be a Christian....they only get subjugated in their world.

That is false. Christians are being beheaded, crucified etc...Christians are Infidels to them.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/19/africa/libya-isis-executions-ethiopian-christians/index.html
http://www.christianpost.com/news/i...ristian-they-see-says-chaldean-leader-124594/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/18/isis-christians-killed-_n_6703278.html
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/isis-beheads-egyptian-christians/2015/02/15/id/624919/

I just grabbed a few of the many many stories out there. It's not reported on the main stream media very much, but they are wiping out Christians over there.

 

[manning]

They ran a more or less conventional war. Attacking a bunch of loosely affiliated entities that try to blend in with innocents is a lot more complicated.

If you are talking about collateral deaths/damage in WW2, there was plenty of it. Every war that has or will be fought to win will have collateral damage/death. If we would have worried about it Germany would not have been bombed to cripple their manufacturing capability. My cousin (25 yrs Older than me) told me the Germans would have had to shoot down 14 of our planes to losing one of theirs to stay even. They couldn't build them fast enough.

It comes down to "better you than me". And they are hell bent at getting to you.

It doesn't take only a strong military to win (and Germany had one of the best). It also takes the will to fight to win with a strong leader.(which Hitler wasn't, a dumb fanatic yes. Who in their right mind declare war on us because Japan did). One of the objectives of war is to d-moralize and strike fear The goal is to take away the will to fight. They are sure as hell doing a good with the fear part. President Roosevelt during WW2 said "what you have to fear is fear itself." It is part of history.

perfect example is the revolutionary war. Washington wasn't fighting with a strong army, but by golly he had a strong will to win.

Now that was a strong leader!! We need a smart strong leader!

 

[kimmar067]

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....I'm just amazed that you used the phrase "by golly"....

 

[kimmar067]

That is false. Christians are being beheaded, crucified etc...Christians are Infidels to them...

....and so are any non-Muslims.

 

[manning]

I doubt the PP is saying "embrace Hitler." The love and kindness, I thought, is for the refugees and "let them come to the west." Humanitarian reaction vs military. I see no universe where the world would have told the Jews to stay in Germany, or that no country should accept them, because some Nazi sympathizers might get in too. But that seems to be different than what is happening here. If we tell the refugees, "you can't come here," and we think other countries should do the same. Protect their citizens at all cost. That leaves the refugees with no place to go, and therefore in a more direct line of fire of ISIS. And therefore many more dead.

If someone sees comparisons between Hitler and ISIS, we should be rushing to assist the refugees to prevent similar outcomes. Save as many people as we can.

Ever hear of the Trojan Horse?

The Trojan Horse is a tale from the Trojan War about the subterfuge that the Greeks used to enter the city of Troy and win the war. In the canonical version, after a fruitless 10-year siege, the Greeks constructed a huge wooden horse, and hid a select force of men inside (terrorist coming in with refugees). The Greeks pretended to sail away (which we actually did), and the Trojans pulled the horse(the refugees we let in) into their city as a victory trophy. That night the Greek force (infiltrated terrorists) crept out of the horse and opened the gates (set off bombs) for the rest of the Greek army, which had sailed back under cover of night. The Greeks entered and destroyed the city of Troy, decisively ending the war.

Metaphorically a "Trojan Horse" has come to mean any trick or stratagem that causes a target to invite a foe into a securely protected bastion or place. A malicious computer program which tricks users into willingly running it is also called a "Trojan horse".

The main ancient source for the story is the Aeneid of Virgil, a Latin epic poem from the time of Augustus. The event is referred to in Homer's Odyssey. In the Greek tradition, the horse is called the "Wooden Horse" (Δούρειος Ἵππος, Doúreios Híppos, in the Homeric Ionic dialect).

 

[pat fan]

....and so are any non-Muslims.

Right. Someone else had said Christians weren't being killed so it was better to be a Christian in the Middle East. I was letting them know that was not the case.

 

[Tigerlulu]

I just wanted to note that when we entered WW2, we were fighting against countries trying to take over our allies. We knew Jews were disappearing and we knew it wasn't good. The extent of what was going on wasn't fully known until after the war was over and the camps were liberated.

We know some of the horrors of what Isis is doing. I question if we know the full horror of it, and if we really understood that, how quickly we would jump on helping those people.

I don't necessarily want all the refugees coming here. I'm concerned also that most of them are men. I also wonder if they wouldn't be better served by the world reclaiming their home for them rather than trying to relocate them to places around the world that are unknown and uncomfortable to them.

Not that my opinion matters in the big scheme of things. I just really feel like we don't know the true extent of the horror of Isis.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Many Muslims are infidels (to ISIS), too: anyone who doesn't share their same warped ideology.

Extremists, with their violence and hate, are everywhere. The only way to stop them is to embrace love, kindness and understanding.

With all due respect, I am still scratching my head over this statement. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.