Every Wish That We Put Into Motion.... (comments welcome!)

[avondale]

That's the way to stick with it! Think how much character you built! LOL

More seriously, if you get some sucky conditions later on, you can think, "Yeah, but it wasn't as bad as that long run where it poured the whole time!" And you really tested out some things like how to handle your gear in those conditions, how did your nutrition go in those conditions (i.e., M&Ms that have all their colors run all over in the wet). If you were going to get specific things that chafe you in those conditions, you would have found out. All that good stuff.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I'm probably over-thinking this.

I will also preface this with: DH is not planning on hanging out all day at the race. He's not planning on jumping around to the different spectator access areas to see me for 2 minutes. And that's absolutely OK. We have all of the kids and dogs that need to be watched, and I wouldn't want to sit around the race by myself for 9 hours waiting for him. That also means I can't just say "DH can hand ____ off to me at x aid station."

Prime day "deals" and thinking ahead to fuel and hydration logistics:

The basics: this is a cupless race, with aid stations approximately every 3 miles (total of 10 stations.) I just ordered a 2-pack of those silicone, squishable "race cups." 3 stations are hydration-only, and the other 7 will have hydration and food. Per the race website there's cut up fruit in buffet pans, and food items like ramen noodles, turkey and cheese sandwiches, grilled cheese, assorted gummy candies, potatoes, pretzels, popsicles, etc. I'm planning on spending as little time as possible in the aid stations because of pace needs.


The 50k allows 2 drop bags on the course. The first is at mile 9.5 and the second is at mile 24. I'm currently planning on having spare shoes/socks in one (if the weather looks wet) and refills of whatever I'm using for fuel in both. I'm wondering if it makes sense to have ready-to-go additional soft flasks or a spare bladder for my vest? I'm thinking that I could use a small cooler as a "drop bag" and be able to just remove-and-replace the flasks and unclip the old bladder from the hose and clip in a filled one instead of having to open the whole thing up, pour, burp, and re-situate everything. (I already have a 2nd bladder for my vest; this isn't something I would buy specifically for this use.)

ORRRR.

What if I ditched the bladder altogether and just use larger soft flasks? I don't carry any of my own hydration at disney races, and there is an aid station approximately every 3 miles, which seems like plenty without me needing to haul around an extra 2 pounds of water on my back. Currently I have 2 8oz ones that I use for electrolytes and caffeine. Nathan has 14oz bottles on sale for prime right now at $16/ea (it *says* they are usually $26 for whatever that's worth) and fitly has 12oz ones for $12/ea. I'm not saying I wouldn't bring anything, I'm just saying maybe I don't need to bring quite so much. Of course there's always the fear of them running out since I'm going to be back-of-the-pack.

Yes. I'm over-thinking this.

I'm doing my 16 miler on the course this weekend, covering the hilly last 9 miles of the course first, and then looping over to run approximately miles 3-6 as an out-and-back. (Miles 1-3 of the race course are a loop that comes back to the start/finish, and the first "major" hill of the course is somewhere around mile 4.) And I feel like maybe I need to start testing a few of these plans out sooner than later. Of course, we are currently looking at a forecast with approximately a 50+% chance of thunderstorms until around 2pm, and then mid-80s for temperatures, so it'll be extremely humid as well. I'm really hoping the forecasted front fizzles out or comes through sooner. If the rain looks like it's going to be a for-sure thing, I'll push it off until Sunday. If this training run goes horribly I will seriously consider changing my registration down to the HM.

 

[avondale]

I'm probably over-thinking this.

I will also preface this with: DH is not planning on hanging out all day at the race. He's not planning on jumping around to the different spectator access areas to see me for 2 minutes. And that's absolutely OK. We have all of the kids and dogs that need to be watched, and I wouldn't want to sit around the race by myself for 9 hours waiting for him. That also means I can't just say "DH can hand ____ off to me at x aid station."

Prime day "deals" and thinking ahead to fuel and hydration logistics:

The basics: this is a cupless race, with aid stations approximately every 3 miles (total of 10 stations.) I just ordered a 2-pack of those silicone, squishable "race cups." 3 stations are hydration-only, and the other 7 will have hydration and food. Per the race website there's cut up fruit in buffet pans, and food items like ramen noodles, turkey and cheese sandwiches, grilled cheese, assorted gummy candies, potatoes, pretzels, popsicles, etc. I'm planning on spending as little time as possible in the aid stations because of pace needs.


The 50k allows 2 drop bags on the course. The first is at mile 9.5 and the second is at mile 24. I'm currently planning on having spare shoes/socks in one (if the weather looks wet) and refills of whatever I'm using for fuel in both. I'm wondering if it makes sense to have ready-to-go additional soft flasks or a spare bladder for my vest? I'm thinking that I could use a small cooler as a "drop bag" and be able to just remove-and-replace the flasks and unclip the old bladder from the hose and clip in a filled one instead of having to open the whole thing up, pour, burp, and re-situate everything. (I already have a 2nd bladder for my vest; this isn't something I would buy specifically for this use.)

ORRRR.

What if I ditched the bladder altogether and just use larger soft flasks? I don't carry any of my own hydration at disney races, and there is an aid station approximately every 3 miles, which seems like plenty without me needing to haul around an extra 2 pounds of water on my back. Currently I have 2 8oz ones that I use for electrolytes and caffeine. Nathan has 14oz bottles on sale for prime right now at $16/ea (it *says* they are usually $26 for whatever that's worth) and fitly has 12oz ones for $12/ea. I'm not saying I wouldn't bring anything, I'm just saying maybe I don't need to bring quite so much. Of course there's always the fear of them running out since I'm going to be back-of-the-pack.

Yes. I'm over-thinking this.

I'm doing my 16 miler on the course this weekend, covering the hilly last 9 miles of the course first, and then looping over to run approximately miles 3-6 as an out-and-back. (Miles 1-3 of the race course are a loop that comes back to the start/finish, and the first "major" hill of the course is somewhere around mile 4.) And I feel like maybe I need to start testing a few of these plans out sooner than later. Of course, we are currently looking at a forecast with approximately a 50+% chance of thunderstorms until around 2pm, and then mid-80s for temperatures, so it'll be extremely humid as well. I'm really hoping the forecasted front fizzles out or comes through sooner. If the rain looks like it's going to be a for-sure thing, I'll push it off until Sunday. If this training run goes horribly I will seriously consider changing my registration down to the HM.

Aid stations every 3 miles is very generous. But if you're really dragging, that could be an hour between stations and it could be hot and humid. You definitely need to bring something.

I would say YES, have soft flasks waiting in your drop bags and trade empties for filled ones. I did this in my trail marathon and 50k where I had drop bags. It doesn't take that long to do a trade-off even if you do it yourself (I did everything myself).

Maybe trading off soft flasks will get you most or even all of your hydration. If you carry two 500-mL soft flasks and trade them both off twice, then that's 3 L of liquids in total you would potentially have. If you take a "cup" with you for the aid stations, you can supplement that. You could also refill a soft flask at an aid station, but that will take some time.

Yes, test things out in your long runs. One thing to pay attention to is: if you drink on the schedule you plan to drink at the race, how much liquid do you end up using? For example, I generally take 3 sips through my straw every half mile. Once you see what your drinking adds up to over a several-hour long run, then you can estimate how much you'll need for the whole race.

Personally, I pretty much never stop at any aid stations. I just don't like to stop moving. So I plan to carry all my fuel and liquids with me - excepting the drop bag trade-offs. But that's just me. Lots of trail runners like to stop and hang out for awhile at the aid stations.

Trail races are smaller, so the aid stations will not be very crowded, so you'll only spend the time there that you spend - you won't be waiting in lines or anything like that. Probably if you ask someone to help fill your flask, they will.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Yes, test things out in your long runs. One thing to pay attention to is: if you drink on the schedule you plan to drink at the race, how much liquid do you end up using? For example, I generally take 3 sips through my straw every half mile. Once you see what your drinking adds up to over a several-hour long run, then you can estimate how much you'll need for the whole race.

I have not been drinking on a schedule other than "oh yeah, I just fueled, so I need to drink some water" or "I'm thirsty." So that's probably something that would be good to work on with long runs over the next few weeks. I use text-to-voice for my interval timer, and I can make a complex timer and add in reminders for both hydration and fuel.....that actually seems like a good idea so I don't get behind on fueling. I just don't want to run into the issue I had in my first marathon where I was drinking too much, and ended up needing to stop at literally every single porta on the course and still felt like I had water sloshing around my stomach the whole time.


I'll go ahead and order some more of soft flasks.

 

[avondale]

I have not been drinking on a schedule other than "oh yeah, I just fueled, so I need to drink some water" or "I'm thirsty." So that's probably something that would be good to work on with long runs over the next few weeks. I use text-to-voice for my interval timer, and I can make a complex timer and add in reminders for both hydration and fuel.....that actually seems like a good idea so I don't get behind on fueling. I just don't want to run into the issue I had in my first marathon where I was drinking too much, and ended up needing to stop at literally every single porta on the course and still felt like I had water sloshing around my stomach the whole time.


I'll go ahead and order some more of soft flasks.

When you get too hot and/or too tired, sometimes you don't feel like drinking (or eating) even though you really need to. This is partly why I drink on a schedule. I drink 3 sips every half-mile....but I don't usually start until 1.5 or 2 miles, to try to avert the pee problem. If it's a cold race, I will maybe cut back a bit, but I don't think that's an issue you're going to have.

 

[garneska]

i am really bad about nutrition for my marathon. i absolutely sucked at it for my 50k trail race. I started bonking really bad, and finally at an aid station i had a cheese tortilla. it was a life saver. I know dont try new stuff on race day, but dont be opposed either.

 

[Herding_Cats]

You know it's the night before a long run when you're putting denture cleaning tablets in all of your hydration items to clean them. And then bagging up 25 servings of nerds gummies (2in x 3in bags hold 16 perfectly.)

The trail/course run is getting put off until next week as tomorrow is supposed to have thunderstorms, high-ish temperatures, and 90% humidity. Plus I'd be solo an hour drive away from home and potentially an hour away from shelter if the weather gets weird. And DH is wanting to do something as a family on Sunday. Shoehorning in a 4hr run + post-run recovery on Sunday isn't really in the cards.

I'm planning to run 2 8mi loops at home so if anything flares up over the lake I'm not more than 3mi from home, and DH can be to me with a car within 5min. Planning to use the mailbox as my "drop bag" spot with fuel and refilled soft flasks at the halfway point. If the weather is bad first thing in the morning I'm going to start on the treadmill and then get outside when it's clear.

 

[nancipants]

What flasks did you get from Amazon? I want to pick up some extra.

 

[Herding_Cats]

What flasks did you get from Amazon? I want to pick up some extra.

I got the 500mL aonijie ones. I already have the 250mL ones. They definitely have a plastic taste, but so does my $$ Nathan vest bladder so who knows. I’m trying a few things to lessen the taste but nothing has worked for any of it so far.

 

[avondale]

Funny, my Salomon soft flasks with straws never really had a plastic taste to them. Maybe the first time - I don't remember now. I only have used water in them. For my hydration reservoir, I always use Nuun, partly for electrolytes and partly for taste.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I'm doing my week wrap-up today while my long run is still mostly remembered. Tomorrow is scheduled for 6 [uneventful] miles, and we have plans, so it'll just be easier to tackle this today.

Sunday: 10mi in the rain. No. It rained the *entire* time. A friend (fellow track mom) who lives near the trail came over and ran the first half with me, and it was nice to have company for a change. Because of the temperature and the humidity, it was extremely buggy. Mostly mosquitos, but some deer flies as well. We didn't start until about 11:30am, so other people had already been through the trail and I didn't have to be the finder of all the spider webs this time. Surprisingly enough, I got faster once my friend left. I'm sure this was because I was no longer talking the entire time. But it was nice to dissociate in the silence and this went by very quickly. I did stop and wring my socks out at one point because the furthest back mile and a half of trail was soaking wet ferns and grass that nearly covered the trail, so my legs and (thanks to gravity) feet got absolutely soaked. I did manage to rack up over 1200 feet of ascent on this run, but it really didn't feel like it. Weird.

Monday: rest day

Tuesday: 5mi easy + 4x30sec hard effort with 2min recovery My legs weren't having it. Mainly, my left soleus wasn't. Legs felt super heavy the whole time. I've discovered that when my legs feel like this that doing the strides sooner in the run kind of wakes everything up and my RPE goes down and the run actually becomes enjoyable. Unfortunately on this day when I tried to really push off with my left leg, my lower leg basically tired collapse under me. Multiple times. So I pulled the plug and finished with 1mi ran, 3 miles walked.

Wednesday: 2mi easy + 2x (8min hard with 3min recovery) + 2mi easy. I feel like this might be the hardest Wednesday workout on my schedule. It sure FELT like the hardest one! Did I do this run at 3pm, essentially the hottest part of the day? Yes. Did that also mean I had almost no shade? Also yes. Did I look at an old DopeyBadger plan to guess at what T pace (for the repeats) would be to have at least a target and then cackle when it was sub-11:00? Yes again. T+D for my T pace (from a 4 year old plan...I am slower now) would have been about 11:16, and I managed to run them at 11:30 and 11:37 pace respectively. Did it suck so so much? You betcha.

I did wear an older-but-not-dead pair of 1080s for this run, and now I'm wondering if my new 880s are the cause of my calf issues. Guess I'll have to try them out again next week and see what happens.

Thursday: 5mi easy Thursdays are always such a struggle to get my run in because DS2 works later, and then DH and DS1 have golf league at 5pm (usually leave early and do a partial practice round.) And I *intended* to go out after DD went to bed, but I was so tired that I fell asleep in her room. Whoops! I did manage to start thinking about eating/hydrating for my 4hr long run.

Friday: rest day. SIL and the nieces came over for the day. I hydrated like it was my job. And then slept like garbage.

Saturday: 16mi long run. So the plan earlier in the week was to camp midway to where the race will be, and run the miles with S who is also signed up for the race. But then he remembered that he was going downstate with his daughter for a pole vault thing she was in. So he needed to cancel. And then the weather forecast got wonky. So I prepped all of the things on Friday night and set my alarm for 5am so I could be completely ready to go by 6am. But then I looked at the forecast at 5am and switched the alarm to 545. When I got up we were in the middle of several thunderstorm cells, so I got ready slowly (let's be honest, I reeeally didn't want to get up) and then headed to the basement to knock out 3-4mi while I waited for the weather to clear out. It ended up being an hour/4mi on the treadmill. *sigh* So much for my carefully plotted 2-lap route!

With 4 miles already on my legs, I set off on my first lap. I had my intervals set for 20/30, and every 15 intervals I got a 30sec "break" where I was reminded to fuel or hydrate. I had just over one liter of water in my vest, 250mL of liquid IV in a soft flask, 4 bags of nerds, and 1 maurten gel caf 100. Stashed in my mailbox (aka "drop bag") were another 3 packs of nerds, a stroopwaffle, the other 250mL of lemon-lime liquid IV, and a 500mL soft flask of caffeinated blackberry-peach liquid IV. Whew! Things were pretty uneventful until around mile 3.5-5 when it rained. Again. We still had full cloud cover, so the humidity was in the 90s, and I was really missing my cooling towel. When I was at mile 7 I texted DH asking him to send one of the boys up to the mailbox to leave a cooling towel in it for me, and the timing worked out that DS3 was just getting there with it when I was swapping out fuel and liquids in my vest. (Side note: this worked *really* well, took basically no time at all, and I will definitely be doing the same thing at the race.)

To get in the remaining 4 miles I figured I would just do hill repeats until I got to the mileage I needed and get some vertical feet in. I ended up doing 3 of the hills and I was definitely fading on the energy front.

I consumed 3 of the nerds bags and the maurten, drank all of the 250mL electrolytes, and about 1/3 of the 500mL container. I drank about 2/3 of the water. I feel like I could maybe have done a little better on this? It averages out to 24ish grams of carbs every 45min. I need to get back into Fleet Feet to pick up more stuff. I was wishing I had some tylenol in my vest (planning on bringing it for the race, just overlooked it today) as mile 16 is usually when I start to get sore during the disney marathons. I did have to stop 5 or 6 times to dump pebbles out of my left shoe, and according to garmin my avg moving pace was 14:18 and my overall avg pace was 14:30. I was sub-14 for everything except for the mile-long uphill part, and the hill repeats, and I was still sub-15 for everything except mile 10 when I stopped to stretch both hamstrings *and* dump out rocks from my shoe. I stayed in zone 3 for HR until I got to the hill repeats during the last hour, and was in zone 2 and 3 for the entire treadmill run. My HR "goal" during road runs is 150 and under, and for trail runs 160 and under (on the hilly trail nearby.) So that all checks out. I DID end up with 2 blisters between the base of my big toe and the ball of my foot....one on each foot, which again is something new.

I'm totally not freaking out at all about 20 miles next week, and going twice as far as I did today for the race. But I've done that before 5 times and been OK, so I'm trying really hard to trust the training. I'm definitely planning on getting onto the race course next weekend (I think I can do almost the entire thing!) for my LONGEST TRAINING RUN EVER.

 

[Herding_Cats]

OH! And trying to de-plastic-fy the taste of my various liquid-holding things!

I have previously tried:
-washing and air drying
-dishwasher and air drying
-washing and freezing
-washing and filling with inexpensive vodka and letting them sit for like 3 days, rinsing and drying

none of those methods really did anything.

This week I also tried:
-washing, filling with white vinegar, letting sit for 2 days, rinsing, and then using denture cleaner tablets with hot water.

Today was definitely the least "industrial" flavored day. My cheapo amazon aonijie soft flasks only tasted like liquid IV and not "plastic with a side of sports drink" and my nathan reservoir was actually drinkable. It's better when the liquids are still cold, but I didn't have to force myself to choke down the nasty water I'm used to from that.

So either the vinegar worked, or the efferdent worked. Either way, those are pretty inexpensive ways to deal with that issue.

 

[nancipants]

*takes notes*

Great job on the long run! What did you listen to?