Every Wish That We Put Into Motion.... (comments welcome!)

[Naomeri]

I used this shirt from Amazon for my Jane Porter costume at the Springtime Surprise 5K, and it was definitely yellow

 

[NYC_MW]

Today I practiced taking a nap so that I can stay sharp for that during MW. .

The best kind of practice there is

 

[Herding_Cats]

I’m having a week, and it’s not been a great one. The constant around and around of having all of the kids with all of the activities and all of the working has finally caught up to me and I’m absolutely exhausted. Falling asleep at 8 or 8:30 in the evening kind of exhausted. My ankle/foot has been particularly cranky this week even though I’ve only done [checks the garmin app] 2 runs.

I’d pretty much given myself permission to take a couple more days off and not run until Tuesday morning, and then this morning as we were headed out to grocery shop DH informs me that we need to go for a run tonight after it cools off because he hasn’t run since Tuesday.

I’m also now on the fence about doing the half in September. They also offer a 5k and 10k. I know part of my current hesitation is how I’m feeling, but I’ll be working through the end of the month, then doing a 4 day camping trip (for a cross country meet) and then school starts and the race weekend is the 2nd weekend after school starts. So things aren’t slowing down any time soon. I definitely need something closer than January to work toward though, and I don’t know where that leaves me.

 

[GollyGadget]

Falling asleep at 8 or 8:30 in the evening kind of exhausted

My whole life must be exhausting because I regularly go to bed at 8:30pm

On a serious note, I have faith you'll figure out what works for you. Give yourself some grace and remind yourself why you want to run. Focusing on the why will make it easier to find the motivation and the time. And if it doesn't, maybe running just isn't your priority right now and that's okay too.

 

[Herding_Cats]

New week and time to get back at it! This is my last week of "normal" 8hr+ shifts, and I'm hoping that helps things out. My feet and legs (and ankle) have really been making themselves known for the last week and a half so yesterday I tried switching to a different pair of shoes. They have less cushion (NB 880 instead of 1080) but they're basically brand new and (discovered shortly after I bought them as my 2nd pair of 880s) I can't wear them to run in because of how the heel cup hits my achilles when I toe off. And I can't do a ton of walking in them for the same reason. Cue making them into work shoes because all I do is stand in 2 spots all day. My feet/legs/ankle were less cranky yesterday but I can't say that it was because of the shoes because I've also gotten back on track doing my PT exercises.
Exciting news at our house: we purchased a hot tub. It's a used/reconditioned model so the price was attainable. We did discover last night that a couple of the jets in the "lounger" aren't working so we are going to call the place we bought it from to get those fixed, but I'm super excited to put the whole use a hot tub as heat-acclimation training method to the test come December.

But in the words of Li Shang, "Let's get down to business." I took a whole week off from running because it was HOT, my body HURT, and our schedule continues to be bonkers. But yesterday I got home from work, made dinner, and then went to summer running club with my oldest 2. It was hot. And sticky. We had some pretty big thunder storms move through during the night and morning, and coupled with the 80 degree temperatures it was reminiscent of the SS 10k. T+D 151, so 4.5% effect (81deg and dew point was 70.) I did remember to look at that BEFORE my run this time because I knew if I didn't that I would go out way too fast and burn up in the first 2 miles. I didn't know what kind of run I wanted to do but seeing 13:57 for EB told me that I would probably be doing a race-pace run for at least part of it and then pull back for the last mile or so as a "cool down."

Run by the numbers: 60/30 intervals for Miles 1-3, walked half a mile (because holy heart rate!), 1.5mi of "easier" pace using 45/30 intervals.

Mile 1 11:55. Ok, I guess this is going to be a half-marathon pace run. Great choice after a week off. Commence bargaining with myself for how long I'm going to try to sustain this pace. Settled on 3mi as long as things didn't start to hurt.
Mile 2 12:01. Yep. HM pace.
Mile 3 11:42. This was a stupid idea.
At around 3.25 I passed where the run club was doing "boat launch hills and stairs" and stopped to "cheer" them on and stretch my calf briefly.
Mile 4 14:21. And I walked half of it. So much for pulling back on the pace?
Mile 5 12:52. Changing the intervals and really FORCING myself to slow down finally sort-of worked. I was definitely ready to be done.

Avg pace 12:34. Avg HR156 (which was probably influenced by the half mile walk) and mostly zone 4 (Threshold) which isn't a surprise given the pace and weather.

I'm definitely back to feeling like I can do this and have at least some motivation to get my runs in.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Side note: met up with my childhood best friend at my parents' house on Tuesday (something we do every year) and had DS1 drop me and DS2 a few miles out so he could get a run in. There's a really nice paved recreation trail that crosses a road about .75mi from their house, so DS2 ran and I biked along.
I'm so excited to watch this kid run for the next 4 years. He puts in the work. He doesn't complain (much) about it. He doesn't avoid the challenges. And his running form is so smooth. He's already pretty confident that he will go sub-20 in the first meet this year. And I think he has a chance to be a lot faster than that if he's not afraid to suffer a little (he ran 20:02 on a muddy course in November last year); last night at practice he was going to be done with 3 sets each of hills and stairs but when the #2 runner on the team (a senior who will probably run in the 16s this year) was going to do 1 more of each DS decided that he would do them also, "So Dade didn't have to do them alone," and one of the other seniors (who will probably be in the 17s) did them also. The boat launch hill, according to the Strava segment, is 0.15mi with an 8% grade. The coaches are really excited about him (and 2 other freshmen) but they try really hard to not put pressure on the kids for performance so I don't think they'll say much about stuff.

I'm SO EXCITED about this season, and that's not something I thought I would EVER say about cross country.

 

[Herding_Cats]

@DopeyBadger OR anyone else with race experience can you talk through with me the pros and cons of *racing* this local half marathon on September 18th? Completing Dopey is my most important goal, but I don't want to abandon everything else by being super conservative in pursuit of that.

T+D for this date is usually OK (not ideal, but not terrible), course is extremely flat, but is not paved, and should be mostly shaded. Copy/paste from my previous post for T+D info:
2021: 97 (113 by 11am)
2020: 72 (84 by 11am)
2019: 124 (138 by 11am)
2018: 118 (stayed steady)
2017: 104 (112 by 11am)
So averaging 103 for the start and 113 at 11am.

Full disclosure: if I decide to race this, I'm trying to PR it (which means faster than 2:49:41, or 12:57 pace, which I feel like would be doable.) My long run pace is 13:00 under ideal conditions, marathon pace is 11:55, and HM is 11:26. I think that if I did race and PR it, it would be a good mental boost for me, and as it's also kind of an expensive race ($80 for the half) I am hesitant to spend that much money for "just" a training run.

I understand that there's some risk of injury by racing this, and how my ankle is doing would probably be a deciding factor in whether I treat it as a training run or a race. But I also know that, for example, when I did my 7mi long run a week and a half ago, I ran that in 12:45 pace when it was 80 out (but the last mile sucked.)

I'm using this week as a bridge week to get back into the groove and am planning on picking up where I "should" be on Sunday (not pictured) with a 7 or 8mi long run. My "weeks" start on Monday, and the last column is the weekly total mileage. I've re-arranged the Tuesday rest day because it works better for me to run that day since it's a non-work day. I also probably won't do that 10k as a time trail. Probably just a HM pace run.


I feel like I'm kind of talking in circles, but mostly I just want to make sure I'm not going to mess stuff up (and logically I *know* I won't because I ran a whole marathon last year before Goofy, but this year's training has looked different from last year also) and that I'm not biting off too much.

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger OR anyone else with race experience can you talk through with me the pros and cons of *racing* this local half marathon on September 18th? Completing Dopey is my most important goal, but I don't want to abandon everything else by being super conservative in pursuit of that.

Dopey is so far away from a Sept 18th HM it's mostly irrelevant to the discussion. About the only concern related to the 9/18 HM and Dopey would be if you suffered a major injury. If you suffer a major injury, then it will negatively impact your ability to train for Dopey. But that's about it. If it were a HM in mid-November, then there's a discussion about pros/cons to racing it, but not 9/18.

Honestly, that's about the extent of the cons to racing it. If your training has been inconsistent or haphazard, then your chances for an injury are higher. If the training has been mostly to plan, then your chance of injury is lower. But re-reading the last several pages of updates does show a pattern of things coming up during your training runs.

Full disclosure: if I decide to race this, I'm trying to PR it (which means faster than 2:49:41, or 12:57 pace, which I feel like would be doable.) My long run pace is 13:00 under ideal conditions, marathon pace is 11:55, and HM is 11:26. I think that if I did race and PR it, it would be a good mental boost for me, and as it's also kind of an expensive race ($80 for the half) I am hesitant to spend that much money for "just" a training run.

Have you done anything recently to confirm these are still appropriate training paces? You've done a single mile in 11:05 (not as a mile time trial, but just the fastest mile mentioned I could find), you ran a tough but not all out 5k in 34:51 (11:13), you did three miles in 12:14, you did five miles in 12:34 pace (but that did include a break to cheer), 7 miles at 12:45 pace. Some breaks, mentions of ankle soreness, calf stretching mentioned in these runs. Obviously none being "A" effort racing, but more than nothing in terms of data.

If you just simply base the HM prediction on the not all out 5k, then you're looking at 2:40 (12:14 pace) if fully trained. If you did race it, and PR'd by 1 second (2:49:40) would it provide you a mental boost? Or is there an amount of time that you'd have to PR by for it to provide a mental boost? And if you ran 2:49:42 (one second slower than PR), how would that effect you mentally?

 

[Herding_Cats]

Dopey is so far away from a Sept 18th HM it's mostly irrelevant to the discussion. About the only concern related to the 9/18 HM and Dopey would be if you suffered a major injury. If you suffer a major injury, then it will negatively impact your ability to train for Dopey. But that's about it. If it were a HM in mid-November, then there's a discussion about pros/cons to racing it, but not 9/18.

Honestly, that's about the extent of the cons to racing it. If your training has been inconsistent or haphazard, then your chances for an injury are higher. If the training has been mostly to plan, then your chance of injury is lower. But re-reading the last several pages of updates does show a pattern of things coming up during your training runs.

Yes. Things have come up during the training runs. I try to make sure I thoroughly document that stuff so if my PT asks for specifics I have a place to be able to say "oh yeah, on this day I felt like X, Y, but not Z." I have admittedly been trying to be careful with my ankle issues through training because I want to keep it from getting worse (for example stopping to stretch after the uphill on my 7mi run because I could feel my calf getting really tight and uphills especially make it clench up.) Could I have pushed through most of those things? Yes. But right now because it's "just" training, I don't.

Have you done anything recently to confirm these are still appropriate training paces? You've done a single mile in 11:05 (not as a mile time trial, but just the fastest mile mentioned I could find), you ran a tough but not all out 5k in 34:51 (11:13), you did three miles in 12:14, you did five miles in 12:34 pace (but that did include a break to cheer), 7 miles at 12:45 pace. Some breaks, mentions of ankle soreness, calf stretching mentioned in these runs. Obviously none being "A" effort racing, but more than nothing in terms of data.

I've been using the pacing chart that you made for me last year. Using my HR data, it seems like they're pretty appropriate, but if that's something I should look into addressing (some sort of time trial) I can do that as well. The actual scheduled run for Sunday is a 5k race or time trial that I was planning on making into a long run.

If you just simply base the HM prediction on the not all out 5k, then you're looking at 2:40 (12:14 pace) if fully trained. If you did race it, and PR'd by 1 second (2:49:40) would it provide you a mental boost? Or is there an amount of time that you'd have to PR by for it to provide a mental boost? And if you ran 2:49:42 (one second slower than PR), how would that effect you mentally?

I don't know? That's about as honest as I can get with that. I *feel* like I could probably run a 2:40 just looking at my training stuff, but I also know that sometimes I'm overly ambitious and the fact that my training has NOT be as consistent as I want so far this summer is a factor. That 2:49HM was also 2 weeks after I had initially injured my ankle last year, and I didn't run at all for 2 weeks leading up to it. So who knows what I could/should have been able to do.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Could I have pushed through most of those things? Yes. But right now because it's "just" training, I don't.

Will you try and push through those things in a race setting? One in which you're close to a PR, but then could detrimentally hurt your Dopey training?

I've been using the pacing chart that you made for me last year. Using my HR data, it seems like they're pretty appropriate, but if that's something I should look into addressing (some sort of time trial) I can do that as well. The actual scheduled run for Sunday is a 5k race or time trial that I was planning on making into a long run.

Yea, it's hard to say definitively without hard data. Typically I like to see training paces based on something accomplished in the last six months. But if there's other data that's not from a race, like from a suitable training run, then I'll hear the argument. Otherwise, I defer to going to a time trial (or race). Just because those were the training paces that were appropriate last year doesn't mean they're still appropriate. They very well may be, but I like to see something back it up. So if you're looking to get a good idea on what you're capable of for the HM in Sept and looking at some goal setting, then running a 5k or 10k is a good idea. It gives you data to use to determine whether your current training is appropriate and what you should be aiming for in Sept. That's as long as you believe you're healthy to run these races without furthering injury.

I don't know? That's about as honest as I can get with that. I *feel* like I could probably run a 2:40 just looking at my training stuff, but I also know that sometimes I'm overly ambitious and the fact that my training has NOT be as consistent as I want so far this summer is a factor. That 2:49HM was also 2 weeks after I had initially injured my ankle last year, and I didn't run at all for 2 weeks leading up to it. So who knows what I could/should have been able to do.

I think this jives with above then. If you intend on "A" racing the HM in Sept, then you'll improve your time in that race by having a good idea what pace to shoot for based on either 5k/10k races or time trial data. That way you can have a good pacing strategy. If the training has been inconsistent, all the more reason to run the shorter distance race for assessment purposes. It only means the HM will be worse off from an ideal race equivalency because inconsistent training more likely effects endurance than it will speed.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Will you try and push through those things in a race setting? One in which you're close to a PR, but then could detrimentally hurt your Dopey training?

If I was trying to PR a race, then yes, to an extent I would push through things until it got to a certain point. 4 months ago that would be limping. When the limping started, it was time to walk, or stop and stretch and see if running could happen. (It's important to note that I haven't limped on a run since I started PT.) That's the nice thing about my usual route....I'm not really ever more than about a mile from home if I need to pull the plug. If it got to the point where it would be really close to a PR and things didn't feel great, there's no sense in pushing it and risking the injury (obviously) especially since we aren't talking about a possible POT or anything.

Yea, it's hard to say definitively without hard data. Typically I like to see training paces based on something accomplished in the last six months. But if there's other data that's not from a race, like from a suitable training run, then I'll hear the argument. Otherwise, I defer to going to a time trial (or race). Just because those were the training paces that were appropriate last year doesn't mean they're still appropriate. They very well may be, but I like to see something back it up. So if you're looking to get a good idea on what you're capable of for the HM in Sept and looking at some goal setting, then running a 5k or 10k is a good idea. It gives you data to use to determine whether your current training is appropriate and what you should be aiming for in Sept. That's as long as you believe you're healthy to run these races without furthering injury.

If you intend on "A" racing the HM in Sept, then you'll improve your time in that race by having a good idea what pace to shoot for based on either 5k/10k races or time trial data. That way you can have a good pacing strategy. If the training has been inconsistent, all the more reason to run the shorter distance race for assessment purposes. It only means the HM will be worse off from an ideal race equivalency because inconsistent training more likely effects endurance than it will speed.

Well I guess it looks like I'm going to haul myself (and possibly DH) down to the trail where it's flat on Sunday morning for a 5k time trial.

 

[GollyGadget]

@DopeyBadger OR anyone else with race experience can you talk through with me the pros and cons of *racing* this local half marathon on September 18th? Completing Dopey is my most important goal, but I don't want to abandon everything else by being super conservative in pursuit of that.

T+D for this date is usually OK (not ideal, but not terrible), course is extremely flat, but is not paved, and should be mostly shaded. Copy/paste from my previous post for T+D info:
2021: 97 (113 by 11am)
2020: 72 (84 by 11am)
2019: 124 (138 by 11am)
2018: 118 (stayed steady)
2017: 104 (112 by 11am)
So averaging 103 for the start and 113 at 11am.

Full disclosure: if I decide to race this, I'm trying to PR it (which means faster than 2:49:41, or 12:57 pace, which I feel like would be doable.) My long run pace is 13:00 under ideal conditions, marathon pace is 11:55, and HM is 11:26. I think that if I did race and PR it, it would be a good mental boost for me, and as it's also kind of an expensive race ($80 for the half) I am hesitant to spend that much money for "just" a training run.

I understand that there's some risk of injury by racing this, and how my ankle is doing would probably be a deciding factor in whether I treat it as a training run or a race. But I also know that, for example, when I did my 7mi long run a week and a half ago, I ran that in 12:45 pace when it was 80 out (but the last mile sucked.)

I'm using this week as a bridge week to get back into the groove and am planning on picking up where I "should" be on Sunday (not pictured) with a 7 or 8mi long run. My "weeks" start on Monday, and the last column is the weekly total mileage. I've re-arranged the Tuesday rest day because it works better for me to run that day since it's a non-work day. I also probably won't do that 10k as a time trail. Probably just a HM pace run.
View attachment 690660

I feel like I'm kind of talking in circles, but mostly I just want to make sure I'm not going to mess stuff up (and logically I *know* I won't because I ran a whole marathon last year before Goofy, but this year's training has looked different from last year also) and that I'm not biting off too much.

I agree with @DopeyBadger that the real question here is if you'll be ready to race a HM in 6 weeks versus impact on Dopey. I'm not as familiar with your training history but do you think you can realistically get the adequate training in between now and then? If you were starting from zero, my advice would be to aim for something shorter. However, I know you aren't quite at zero but you're also still rehabbing an injury so you're at higher injury risk than others if you ramp up too quickly.

When do you need to decide? My opinion is to see how the next couple of weeks of training go and decide based on that. If you find yourself skipping or shortening runs, that's a sign that you may want to wait on that half pr. However, if you're able to complete the training without any ill effects, then maybe it's time for a new PR. Ultimately, you need to decide what your body can or cannot handle.

 

[HangWithMerida]

Read through the discussion above. Lots of good advice and things to think through. Personally, I would go for it! The plan you included will get you there mileage-wise. If you feel like you’re in a good place in terms of injury recovery and you can commit to putting the time in for training, it certainly seems doable. If I had the possibility of race day conditions like that in Sept I would be all over a HM!

 

[Herding_Cats]

Well it’s supposed to rain all day today (thunderstorms) so we bumped our back-to-school shopping trip up a week and are day-tripping down to one of the outlet malls. Not sure if I’ll get my 5k in today, and if I do there’s a chance it’ll be on the treadmill.

Yesterday: 3mi EB on the treadmill. Nothing of importance to report. Avg HR 134. Avg pace 13:41. Continuous, no intervals.


For fun I compared my HR data against other 3mi treadmill runs from December of last year (starting to peak for Goofy), February, and yesterday. I might not be getting faster, but my HR avg is dropping!

 

[Herding_Cats]

5k Time Trial report.
In discussion about whether I should try to PR the half I'm hoping to run in mid-September, Billy suggested that I do a 5k time trail to make sure that my pacing chart from last year was still accurate. Originally I had planned to run this on Sunday (my day off from work) with DH on the completely flat nearby recreation trail, but when the weather showed that it would rain all day Sunday we decided to make a day-trip downstate to do the back to school shopping with the kids. (They bought shockingly few things.) That meant running TODAY, after a weird split shift when XC practice got moved from 8am to 10am due to heavy rain. I worked from 8-10, and then 12-4 instead of the originally planned 1030-4. My body wasn't quite sure what to do with that. When I got home from work I had a quick snack, swapped out who was responsible for the toddler, and got out the door before the temptation to just vegetate on the couch set in.

Ok WOW is it hard to run really hard (like a race effort) with no one around you/in front of you. So weird. I started with a warm-up jog that was around half a mile, and then stretched my calves out since they were protesting. Not the start I wanted. I figured that if didn't get better I would just pull the plug on the effort/time goal and just do easy miles. As usual, once I got started it wasn't really an issue. I set up my intervals for 90/30, pulled up the faster cadence playlist, and off I went. T+D = 126 (68deg outside, 58DP, 70% humidity)

I tried to not fixate on my watch, and only checked my pacing every half mile or so to make sure I wasn't going "too fast" or more realistically, too slow. The pace I was shooting for was sub-11min/mi, and hopefully more like 10:30.

Mile 1 has the most uphill and rolly-ness, but I usually overrun my first mile so it all worked out. 10:35.1 Ok. Now to try to sustain this.

Mile 2 has a turn around, and only one small uphill and the rest of it is pretty flat. 10:35.5. I didn't see this split when my watch buzzed because I was also getting notifications for things like step goal, flights of stairs, etc. One after the other.

Mile 3. Oh thank god, I get to start with a walk break on one of the uphills. Mile 3 has 2 of the rolls from mile 1, and then a very gradual down slop for 1/4 of a mile to where I turn around and then I have to run that gradual slope back, and then down my driveway to get the 0.1mi This mile sucked. I desperately wanted to stop (stupid brain!) and just walk it in, so instead, I skipped a walk break and ran through it. Get it over with sooner, right? Missed the notification for this mile as well. Just trying to keep running at this point. 10:35.3.

Those splits though. Even a blind squirrel and find a nut everyone once in awhile I guess?

The 0.1mi. So I was gasping for air (literally gasping) and hit my lap key 0.02mi too late. Oh no! The horror! Just kidding. It's whatever. 1:13.3 for that section. I was done. More mentally than physically probably, but I was very happy to hit the lap key again and walk home.

And now I have to do math.

Please hold.


32:58? Strava says 32:52 (and also shows this run as a 2mi PR at 21:05!!)

My previous PR was 33:46, so almost a full minute off that. I'll take it! Woo hoo!! Celebratory pie for me tonight!

 

[azrivest]

Congrats on the PR! and done as a "virtual" 5k as well

 

[DopeyBadger]

That's what I'm talking about! Way to go!

So the equivalent is an 11:31 min/mile HM pace. The trick for converting a time trial to a real race distance is to make sure to use the pace and not the race equivalency time. When you run a time trial, you tend to run the exact GPS distance (3.11 miles for a 5k). But more often than not, the GPS distance of a real race is going to measure a little long (tangents and such). So for a HM, it's best to use 13.2 miles instead of 13.11. So 13.2 miles * 11:31 min/mile is a goal of 2:32! If you've got a similar course with ideal conditions and you keep up good training, then that's a good goal time to keep in mind.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I think that what made me the happiest was looking at my pacing chart from last year (that I’ve continued to use this year) and seeing that I pretty much nailed it.

 

[HangWithMerida]

Great work! It is so hard to push fast paces alone.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Followed up my 5k with a 5mi easy run today. It started off well enough by I was definitely noticing the fatigue by mile 3 (which happens to coincide with “the hill” on my 5mi route.)

45/30 intervals. Avg pace 13:35. Avg hr 139.
13:44/12:59/13:44/13:49/13:39. And i only spent around 8.5 minutes above zone 3 for heart rate. Winning all around there!

The uphill didn’t eat me alive this time, and I managed to not go too fast on the downhill.


In other news I had my last PT appointment today. I met all of the benchmarks they had for me. I would really have like to get in one more appt in about a month with the main PT who is a pretty serious runner, but I guess that’s not happening. Just need to make sure I’m doing my exercises so I don’t backslide on my progress.