Every Wish That We Put Into Motion.... (comments welcome!)

[Herding_Cats]

I have all of the mulling to do. And I don't know how much mental bandwidth I have to spare for that with getting baseball up and running (although hopefully I'm past the difficult part now.)

I had thought that there was pretty much a 5% chance of DH going for the idea of returning for MW '23 (we are Dinsey'ed out from a parks perspective) and while I *want* to go back and do something for races, I figured that he wouldn't go for it and that would be that.

And then the themes came out and the 10k being Chip and Dale kind of sucked him back in a little. He asked how much registration would be. And when we would need to figure out lodging. And if we would leave ALL of the kids at home (I'm kind of leaning toward possibly taking the will-be-3yo down to my parents in FL) for this trip. No lies, a kid-free week race-cation sounds pretty great. What he DIDN'T say was "no." Which means "if you can figure out how to make it happen, sure."

But IF we do decide to sign up for races (he'll probably do the 5k and 10k) what do I sign up for? I had a great time this year running Goofy (even though running my 2nd marathon was more terrifying than my first at the beginning) but I also felt like I had "missed out" on Dopey because it was "only 9.3 more miles." There are a lot of other reasons Dopey couldn't work out last year, but those feelings are giving me at least a little bit of FOMO for next year. Do I really have the time to train for Dopey? (Technically, yes, I will, starting in June.) Do I want to commit to the amount of time it'll take to train for it? (I don't know.) What has taking essentially a month COMPLETELY OFF after barely doing anything in February done to my fitness for the whole re-starting part? Will my on-going foot issues tolerate that much training? (which is very much a down-the-line issue.)

And PHEW! Glad that my current training journal page no longer start with "everything is falling apart." Because that wasn't a fun to scroll past every time I came to make a post for the last 4 weeks.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I'm also pretty much banking on Disney making Merida the challenge medal for Princess weekend so they can take all of my money again.

 

[HangWithMerida]

But IF we do decide to sign up for races (he'll probably do the 5k and 10k) what do I sign up for? I had a great time this year running Goofy (even though running my 2nd marathon was more terrifying than my first at the beginning) but I also felt like I had "missed out" on Dopey because it was "only 9.3 more miles." There are a lot of other reasons Dopey couldn't work out last year, but those feelings are giving me at least a little bit of FOMO for next year. Do I really have the time to train for Dopey? (Technically, yes, I will, starting in June.) Do I want to commit to the amount of time it'll take to train for it? (I don't know.) What has taking essentially a month COMPLETELY OFF after barely doing anything in February done to my fitness for the whole re-starting part? Will my on-going foot issues tolerate that much training? (which is very much a down-the-line issue.)

And PHEW! Glad that my current training journal page no longer start with "everything is falling apart." Because that wasn't a fun to scroll past every time I came to make a post for the last 4 weeks.

That’s a lot to think about and a short time to do it! It’s good that you are considering all the angles.
I understand not wanting your MW experienced to be tarnished by FOMO. It sounds like you think the training time is doable, so that’s something. As for your fitness, don’t stress too much just yet. I took a month off last summer and, yes, the first comeback month is rough. You feel like you forgot how to run and everything feels hard. But it comes back faster than you would think so if you are able to start building the consistency back up now, you should fine on that front. The foot issues are definitely a consideration. You should be in prevention mode non-stop. You know this will flare back up if you start slacking on it, so start back running with the plan to do the icing, stretching, massage, etc that works for you from the beginning and just don’t let it slide. Unfortunately, PF seems to be one of those things that certain people just never get rid of. So if you are planning on Dopey or any other significant race weekend mileage, just stick to prevention even if your foot is feeling great.
I hope you can work it out if that’s what you really want!

 

[GollyGadget]

Do you want to train for another marathon? To me, that is the big question. If you don't, make peace with that and run whatever other distance(s) appeal to you.
I "only" ran the half last January and have zero regrets about that decision. I knew I didn't have time to train for anything more.

If you do want to put in the time and effort for a marathon, Dopey isn't a much bigger commitment (other than the price tag). I've never done it myself but the general consensus seems to be that if you properly train for the marathon, you can handle Dopey.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Do you want to train for another marathon? To me, that is the big question.

Yeah that's my biggest thing to figure out right now. Do I want to put the training in? And again, one reason why I dislike registration being soooo far in advance.

I'd likely just re-use my training plan from last year, and try to get myself up to a consistent 15-20mi/week by June. (And having a base to work from when I would need to start a training plan is be a big thing for me to accomplish.) That works out to about 4 1hr-runs per week, and that might be asking a lot from myself based on how my calendar looks with baseball. I could get 2 of them in on the weekends? And figure out 2 other days a week? Maybe? Baseball is a 2:30-6:00pm time commitment on practice days, and a 2:30-8:00pm time commitment on game days. At which point I have to usually come home and make dinner. I may have to majorly suck it up and try running before DH goes to work in the morning. *shudder*

 

[Herding_Cats]

How it's going:


Things were going GREAT with juggling all of the things for all our extra-curriculars until last night when DS3 got off the bus at the wrong location (home instead of the practice field), which left me without a sitter during practice AND no idea where he was, I had an upset parent call me about one of my volunteer coaches, and my teams lost their transportation to our practice field. So it's an enormous mess right now.

I need something else to focus on, so here are my goals for spring:
1. ) Run 3x a week until baseball season is over (end of May)
2. ) Have one of those runs be 4+ miles each week.

Bonus items (which will be directly affected by ongoing adjustments with baseball *sigh*)
a. ) run "hills" on the road for the baseball field every other week after a practice
b. ) have practice plans/lists done the night before so I don't wake up in the middle of the night thinking about baseball
c. ) sign up for a local spring race to have an additional motivating factor to actually train

The problem with these goals? I'm purposely not putting DD down for a nap after lunch so that she will nap during practice. Which means I can't pop her into the stroller and go for a run (she'll fall asleep) during the day, or get on the treadmill during nap time. Which leaves mornings. And I HATE getting up early.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Aaaaaand DH says to go for it for registering for MW. So now I really do need to decide what I want to run. In the next 5 days.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I think I may have nailed down my "races" (more just events since I won't be racing all of them) for this summer. Again. Maybe. Probably? I feel like I've done this before. Once or twice.

I have 6 more weeks of baseball, during which I'm going to try to just get back into the groove of regular running.

I'm 21 weeks out from a local half (9/11) that is an out/back on a converted (aka: FLAT) railbed. It's not paved, and while it's SUPER unlikely to be achieved, it could work for a POT if I somehow get significantly faster this summer. (I would need to be able to run my current 5k pace for a half to get a POT.) I mean, I can dream, right? There's a 10miler across the state in August if things are going amazing, but again, not going to hold my breath on that. I'll probably plug a couple of 5ks and maybe a 10k in there as participatory events. Maybe actually race 1 or 2 of them if the temps/course are right.

And I would have 15.5 weeks after that half until MW starts, which is definitely reasonable given what I did last year running a full in October.

Shew. I can't believe I'm 2 days away from committing to another marathon.


Oh. And it snowed yesterday. And it's supposed to snow on Monday. Yaaaaay. Can it be June already? We *usually* are done with frost-temperatures by then.

 

[Herding_Cats]

@DopeyBadger are there any really compelling reasons that I *shouldn't* re-use the training plans I did last year? The volume worked for my schedule, and I already have both of the files (the Marathon plan (#529) through the beginning of October, and then the bridge to MW Goofy plan [#559]) The way things are laid out right now I would be running Sunday/Monday/Tuesday to get the b2b2b runs in, AND it has the Sunday long run, which is probably going to be my best option. The marathon plan starts at around 15-16mpw in June, so I figure if I can get my volume up to around there in the next 2 months I should be OK. There are a few things that would probably need tinkering in August and September (since I won't need to taper for an early October marathon)

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger are there any really compelling reasons that I *shouldn't* re-use the training plans I did last year? The volume worked for my schedule, and I already have both of the files (the Marathon plan (#529) through the beginning of October, and then the bridge to MW Goofy plan [#559]) The way things are laid out right now I would be running Sunday/Monday/Tuesday to get the b2b2b runs in, AND it has the Sunday long run, which is probably going to be my best option. The marathon plan starts at around 15-16mpw in June, so I figure if I can get my volume up to around there in the next 2 months I should be OK. There are a few things that would probably need tinkering in August and September (since I won't need to taper for an early October marathon)

I think the two key parts are whether your fitness is in the same starting place, and whether the volume works for you based on your schedule. So be realistic as to whether you have the time to complete the plan as written. If not, and you feel if you'll have to make adjustments to the plan as written, then we'd probably want to sit down and figure out those changes. Additionally, if your fitness is in a different place (whether better or worse) would change some of the durations/paces you'd want to be doing the workouts for/at. So sometimes things line up where you can re-use, but most times it's better to start anew. It doesn't happen often that we have the same availability and the same fitness level as a year ago.

A lesser thought, but still important, is whether you felt the training plan's workouts specifically worked for you. There are a bevy of different marathon training methodologies. So you'd want to feel relatively confident we nailed the correct approach on the first try when it comes to the type of workouts that best amplify your abilities.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I think the two key parts are whether your fitness is in the same starting place, and whether the volume works for you based on your schedule. So be realistic as to whether you have the time to complete the plan as written. If not, and you feel if you'll have to make adjustments to the plan as written, then we'd probably want to sit down and figure out those changes. Additionally, if your fitness is in a different place (whether better or worse) would change some of the durations/paces you'd want to be doing the workouts for/at. So sometimes things line up where you can re-use, but most times it's better to start anew. It doesn't happen often that we have the same availability and the same fitness level as a year ago.

A lesser thought, but still important, is whether you felt the training plan's workouts specifically worked for you. There are a bevy of different marathon training methodologies. So you'd want to feel relatively confident we nailed the correct approach on the first try when it comes to the type of workouts that best amplify your abilities.

2 days per week off is still going to be a must, with 1 on the weekend. One change is going to be that I'm planning on working (early mornings...probably something like 430 or 5am-1030 or 11am) from early June through August. And another possible change is that DH and I are discussing possibly reffing basketball in the late fall/winter (which is a lot of stop/start movement.) That wouldn't start until November, which of course is a terrible time to add in additional exercise stuff when one is training for something like Dopey.

I have no idea where my fitness level is compared to last year. I had trained for/completed a half last year leading up to the marathon plan, and right now I'm sitting on a solid month of nothing. I'm working on getting that back on track, but I'm definitely NOT where I was in January or February of this year, coming off of almost a full calendar year of training. I think that the mental fitness is definitely better since I KNOW I can endure the distances this time.

As to whether or not the plans worked, they got me across the finish line which was, and continues to be, goal #1. I have nothing to compare them to except for that higdon half plan that was my very first plan. I can say that I had significantly less soreness after the January full than the October one, but I also ran it an hour+ slower. I really preferred running intervals on distances over 7mi if that matters, but looking at the galloway training plan, there are way too many 4, 5, or 6hr training runs toward the end for me to feel good about it; those time commitments will absolutely not fit into my life.

I know that I have time before I need to start Training with a capital T, so I'm just trying to make sure I'm getting myself to the appropriate level before that starts.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I have no idea where my fitness level is compared to last year. I had trained for/completed a half last year leading up to the marathon plan, and right now I'm sitting on a solid month of nothing. I'm working on getting that back on track, but I'm definitely NOT where I was in January or February of this year, coming off of almost a full calendar year of training. I think that the mental fitness is definitely better since I KNOW I can endure the distances this time.

As to whether or not the plans worked, they got me across the finish line which was, and continues to be, goal #1. I have nothing to compare them to except for that higdon half plan that was my very first plan. I can say that I had significantly less soreness after the January full than the October one, but I also ran it an hour+ slower. I really preferred running intervals on distances over 7mi if that matters, but looking at the galloway training plan, there are way too many 4, 5, or 6hr training runs toward the end for me to feel good about it; those time commitments will absolutely not fit into my life.

Both of these paragraphs suggest to me that it might be wise to reconsider using the old plans as written. It may only be detrimental and discouraging to use an old plan with paces that are no longer relevant.

Secondly, if you want to use run/walk instead of continuous running on runs longer than 7 miles, then we should alter the long runs on the plan prior. We'd want to come up with a relevant run/walk pacing scheme and probably elongate the duration of the runs slightly (so they're likely slower, but last a little longer). Instead of peaking at 2.5 hrs, it would peak at 3 hrs. But still far under Galloway's 4-6 hr range.

 

[Herding_Cats]

And this is why I'm asking all of the questions now. I've been digging through a lot of marathon plans and I just can't get over the mileage for most of them....long runs in the teens in the first couple of weeks....with my pace i could never fit it all in, AND I'd be running for "too long" on long run days.

Is it a reasonable plan to try to get back up to 180min/15mpw (or more if time allows or I'm feeling good) and then do some sort of fitness test/time trial to figure out where I am in early June?

 

[DopeyBadger]

And this is why I'm asking all of the questions now. I've been digging through a lot of marathon plans and I just can't get over the mileage for most of them....long runs in the teens in the first couple of weeks....with my pace i could never fit it all in, AND I'd be running for "too long" on long run days.

Marathon training can be an absolute time suck. But as experience has taught me, there is a different way of training that doesn't require the 4-6 hr runs on the weekend. But the flipside is, it does ask of you more availability during the week, and consistency.

Is it a reasonable plan to try to get back up to 180min/15mpw (or more if time allows or I'm feeling good) and then do some sort of fitness test/time trial to figure out where I am in early June?

Right, so you're not running a marathon in October. Which means true Dopey training won't start until September. So you've got plenty of time to slowly get yourself back in a good routine. So you could approach the time between now and Sept in two ways:

1) Do mostly easy running in a mostly relaxed manner. Build back into the 4-ish hour area by September to begin training in earnest.
2) Plan to do more structured training between now and September. Plan to build into the 6 hr area towards the end of the plan in August, possibly do some sort of "A" race that's shorter (if the weather is decent enough for an "A" attempt), take a short down period, and then prepare for Dopey training in September to begin.

Over the long term, you're likely to improve more with choice 2 than choice 1. But choice 1 is less of a commitment between now and September. It's about what best fits your life in the near term, and aligning that with your personal goals.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Right, so you're not running a marathon in October. Which means true Dopey training won't start until September. So you've got plenty of time to slowly get yourself back in a good routine. So you could approach the time between now and Sept in two ways:

1) Do mostly easy running in a mostly relaxed manner. Build back into the 4-ish hour area by September to begin training in earnest.
2) Plan to do more structured training between now and September. Plan to build into the 6 hr area towards the end of the plan in August, possibly do some sort of "A" race that's shorter (if the weather is decent enough for an "A" attempt), take a short down period, and then prepare for Dopey training in September to begin.

Over the long term, you're likely to improve more with choice 2 than choice 1. But choice 1 is less of a commitment between now and September. It's about what best fits your life in the near term, and aligning that with your personal goals.

So if I went with way #2, I need to figure out a race to determine the training plan. A "shorter distance" would be a 10k up to a half? Current race listings that aren't 4+ hours away in the month of August would be (working from latest to soonest):

9/11 Holland Haven Marathon (A Sunday, would eliminate potential XC meet interference): Half or 8k distance

8/28 (A Sunday, again would work well with the kids' XC) Millenium Meadows Marathon: Half or 10k

8/27 HAP Crim Fit: 10mi. Last year they made the start time earlier because of extreme heat. This may become a non-option because our XC team hosts an enormous invitational on this day usually, but we also have large-scale construction going on at our school and I'm not sure if we will be able to host this year.

I'm definitely going to struggle to get in consistent runs until Memorial Day weekend (when baseball wraps up), but I'm planning on shoehorning them in when possible.

 

[DopeyBadger]

So if I went with way #2, I need to figure out a race to determine the training plan. A "shorter distance" would be a 10k up to a half? Current race listings that aren't 4+ hours away in the month of August would be (working from latest to soonest):

9/11 Holland Haven Marathon (A Sunday, would eliminate potential XC meet interference): Half or 8k distance

8/28 (A Sunday, again would work well with the kids' XC) Millenium Meadows Marathon: Half or 10k

You certainly can train without an "A" race at the end. But I know some people do better with training for a purpose. Without the "A" race, some can lose the incentive to train. I'd say look at the historical weather (at time of race, at that location, for the last five years) and weigh that heavily in your choice. You're likely to have a better experience in a colder race.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Yes I definitely need something to be training for to stay motivated to get the work in.

Grand Rapids on August 28th (8am race start) has been:
2021: 147 (up another 7 degrees by 11am)
2020: 138 (stayed steady)
2019: 117 (up to 123 by 11am)
2018: 144 (stayed steady)
2017: 119 (up to 123 by 11am)
So averaging around 123 T+ D at the start and 136 at 11am. That seems really hot and doesn’t sound fun because I know how rotten my very-hot-half ended up being last summer.


Holland on Sept 11th (8am start) has been:
2021: 121 (138 by 11am)
2020: 100 (108 by 11am)
2019: 127 (149 by 11am)
2018: 101 (129 by 11am)
2017: 92 (115 by 11am)
So averaging around 108 for the start and 128 at 11am.

Holland looks like the clear winner here.

The other option I didn’t include is the local half and 10k that is 15min down the road on 9/18.
2021: 97 (113 by 11am)
2020: 72 (84 by 11am)
2019: 124 (138 by 11am)
2018: 118 (stayed steady)
2017: 104 (112 by 11am)
So averaging 103 for the start and 113 at 11am.

I’m not sure it’s that’s enough of a difference to strongly consider the local one over the downstate one unless it also coincides with our state’s early youth deer hunting season. I have been stalking the DNR website for dates for that.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Yea, definitely 9/11 or 9/18.

 

[Herding_Cats]

So if I started on Memorial Day weekend, that gives me either 14 or 15 weeks of training plan time before one of those 2 races. Plus whatever EA/EB minutes I manage to put in over the next month. And then another 16 weeks (depending on the Sept race date) until the week of Dopey.

 

[DopeyBadger]

So if I started on Memorial Day weekend, that gives me either 14 or 15 weeks of training plan time before one of those 2 races. Plus whatever EA/EB minutes I manage to put in over the next month. And then another 16 weeks (depending on the Sept race date) until the week of Dopey.

Seems reasonable to me!