Every Wish That We Put Into Motion.... (comments welcome!)

[Herding_Cats]

HAHA! Fun observation. When I did my plan to get from MW to SS/Spring Break I completely left this week out. Just skipped right over it! So I won't be "behind" a week by repeating. Of course, I also didn't workout again yesterday, so I am technically a day "behind" now but oh well. That should be an easy enough fix.

I'm starting to feel the need to get a few things on the calendar as far as races go because I've been talking to some friends of ours about maybe working once school gets out for the summer (and that'll be here before I know it!) at their restaurant. I'm pretty sure they would be flexible with hours, and I'm looking at working something like a 5-11am shift so that my oldest 2 boys will only be on babysitting duty for a few hours each morning. And it'll be very helpful if I can say up front that I need X, Y, or Z days off for sure for a race. The whole job thing is still very much in the mulling/considering stage, but if we can make it work that would be my fundraiser for MW or another family trip or something (maybe more responsible for like...paying off some stuff. But where's the fun in that?)

It's not lost on me, the irony of planning ahead for races and training plans when I'm majorly struggling to execute the one I have for myself right now. I get that I need to focus on the now, but I'm seriously lacking in the motivation and at this point I'm just trying to find the right lever to pull in my brain to have something to work toward besides what is very much feeling like a filler plan. Something to give what feels like "busy work" a purpose. So everything after this is me trying to figure that out. My desire to be faster (which will probably mean a 5k training cycle) is definitely at odds with my current lack of motivation and desire to race another half.

One thing I did work on yesterday (when I felt like garbage) was looking back through my Daniels book at some of the training plans to get an idea of what some speed work-ish plans could be. I'm estimating my vDOT to be somewhere around 27 (based on the 5k I ran last July) and that is pretty close to the training paces that I've been using in my training plans up until now as well.

Did you know that the first full plan outline he gives for 5k/10k runners is a 40-50mi per WEEK plan???? As in, he starts at 40-50mi/wk and GOES UP. I didn't even run that much training for Goofy. And while logically I know that those numbers are based on people who are quite a bit faster than I am and my mileage would be lower, and that they are racing the distance instead of just completing it, that would still be a lot of miles for me. And that's a little overwhelming.

A different option is to do the "Red Fitness Plan" which is 4 days/week (or more if you want to do extra easy runs on the "off days.") And the only thing making me nervous about that plan is the number of T pace runs. Which I know would be good for me. And if I changed it (I know, I know...it's written a certain way for a reason) to 3 weeks per phase instead of 4 weeks per phase I could potentially fit that in between SS/Spring Break and the local July 4th race. But IDK if that leaves me enough time to do a good training cycle for the September race.

Time until SS 10k: 6w 5d
Assume I take the week after that off since baseball will be starting and that may be very time consuming--> April 10th
Time from 4/10 - 6/18 (local 5k OR half): 10 weeks
Time from 4/10 - 7/4 (local 5k): 12 weeks (2w 2d after the 6/18 race)
Potential fall half: 9/11 (it's a Sunday, so it wouldn't interfere with XC): 10 weeks after 7/4 [potential] race.

 

[DopeyBadger]

A different option is to do the "Red Fitness Plan" which is 4 days/week (or more if you want to do extra easy runs on the "off days.") And the only thing making me nervous about that plan is the number of T pace runs. Which I know would be good for me.

Is it this one? (link) It's definitely an easier version of the 5k/10k plan. It misses out on the R pace, which might be a good one. And it's quite repetitive. Just be cognizant, that per the VDOT calculator your T pace is 10:34. So when the workout has 1 mile T with 1 min rest, that would likely be cutting yourself short on the resting intervals since Daniels recommends 1 min rest for every 5 min of T. Sometimes he does less, but that's more rare. So with a 1 mile T (10:34 duration) you'd probably want to bump up the RI to 2 min minimally. 2 miles T and you'd probably want to increase the RI to 4-5 min.

I think if you can understand the concepts in the book, then you could conceivably write your own plan using his principles. Ultimately, that's what he wants you to do. To feel empowered enough based on the methodology to write your own plan. Let's take R for instance.

-WU/CD of at least 10-15 min each.
-Max of 2 min in a single rep. About 350m.
-Min of 30 sec in a single rep. About 100m.



-Run to rest ratio is equal to double. So if you run for 1 min, then rest for 1-2 min.
-No more than 5% of weekly mileage should be R. So if you do 25 miles in a week, then you can do 1.25 miles of R. Since R is 8:43 pace, then that's just under 11 min total of R.
-Early in the training plan, work on shorter durations (30s and 60s). As time progresses, introduce longer durations (90s and 120s).

With the above, I want you to try to write 5 different R workouts that are progressive in nature (the first workout is the easiest, and the last is the hardest) in your reply.

But IDK if that leaves me enough time to do a good training cycle for the September race.

Time until SS 10k: 6w 5d
Assume I take the week after that off since baseball will be starting and that may be very time consuming--> April 10th
Time from 4/10 - 6/18 (local 5k OR half): 10 weeks
Time from 4/10 - 7/4 (local 5k): 12 weeks (2w 2d after the 6/18 race)
Potential fall half: 9/11 (it's a Sunday, so it wouldn't interfere with XC): 10 weeks after 7/4 [potential] race.

You want a training plan to be about 12 weeks or more. Anything less, and you'll probably cut your preparation short. It depends on what your goal is for the race as well. If you're fine with being slightly underprepared from maximal fitness, then it could work. Additionally, if you view the training as 22 weeks long instead of 12+10 weeks, then it's doable. But 22 weeks can be a bit long for a lot of people and may lead to a mental fatigue by the time the race comes up. So maybe 4 easy weeks post SS, then 8 weeks for local 5k where you're not max fitness, and then 10 remaining weeks aimed at the "A" HM race in Sept. It just matters how you think you'll personally respond.

But doing 12+10=22 isn't impossible. Just treat the first 12 weeks like a slightly lesser volume, but high on intensity, and then the second phase of 10 weeks back off some of the intensity and increase the volume. I think the key is that you'd have to be willing to do more during that 10 week phase to bridge it off the previous 12 week phase.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Is it this one? (link) It's definitely an easier version of the 5k/10k plan. It misses out on the R pace, which might be a good one. And it's quite repetitive. Just be cognizant, that per the VDOT calculator your T pace is 10:34. So when the workout has 1 mile T with 1 min rest, that would likely be cutting yourself short on the resting intervals since Daniels recommends 1 min rest for every 5 min of T. Sometimes he does less, but that's more rare. So with a 1 mile T (10:34 duration) you'd probably want to bump up the RI to 2 min minimally. 2 miles T and you'd probably want to increase the RI to 4-5 min.

I think if you can understand the concepts in the book, then you could conceivably write your own plan using his principles. Ultimately, that's what he wants you to do. To feel empowered enough based on the methodology to write your own plan. Let's take R for instance.

-WU/CD of at least 10-15 min each.
-Max of 2 min in a single rep. About 350m.
-Min of 30 sec in a single rep. About 100m.

View attachment 647702

-Run to rest ratio is equal to double. So if you run for 1 min, then rest for 1-2 min.
-No more than 5% of weekly mileage should be R. So if you do 25 miles in a week, then you can do 1.25 miles of R. Since R is 8:43 pace, then that's just under 11 min total of R.
-Early in the training plan, work on shorter durations (30s and 60s). As time progresses, introduce longer durations (90s and 120s).

With the above, I want you to try to write 5 different R workouts that are progressive in nature (the first workout is the easiest, and the last is the hardest) in your reply.

Yes. That is the plan I was looking at. And just for fun today after i did my L4 workout I decided to do 0.5mi T intvervals (which themselves were 2:00/0:30 run-walk intervals.) I didn't die. 0.5mi EA/EB, 0.5mi T twice, and then 0.5mi EB and 0.25mi cooldown walk. Let me just say that if I had to do that first 3x 1mi T + recovery workout from week 1 of the red plan TODAY I would be very very tired and question my life choices. Maybe it was enough motivation to stop skipping stuff? Also pretty sure i hit a new high HR for me at 198 during my 2nd T-interval (it was 193-198 for over a minute so I don't think it was a random spike.)


I pulled 11:10 as my T pace from the chart in the book, and honestly, with the running-fitness level I'll probably be at by April, slower is probably safer.

And good grief. You want me to do MATH?! I think that the math portion is what gives me the most trouble with this book, because there's sooooo many numbers and massive explanations about WHY the numbers are what they are and my eyes just glaze over. I don't care about the why. Just tell me what they are and that's good enough for me. ENGLISH MAJOR. Words. Not numbers.

But 5 workouts. Fine fine. But that will be much later tonight or maybe even tomorrow.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I decided to do 0.5mi T intvervals (which themselves were 2:00/0:30 run-walk intervals.)

I would advise against using run/walk intervals during the T portion itself. Then it's turning into a different workout altogether.

Let me just say that if I had to do that first 3x 1mi T + recovery workout from week 1 of the red plan TODAY I would be very very tired and question my life choices.

Agreed as I don't recommend starting off with 10-11 min intervals of T pace either. Based on how the RED plan is written, it's assuming you can do those 1 mile T reps in about 5-7 min or so. So much closer to what you actually did (0.5 mile reps).

I pulled 11:10 as my T pace from the chart in the book, and honestly, with the running-fitness level I'll probably be at by April, slower is probably safer.

That's interesting. I pulled the T value from Daniels VDOT online calculator based on your 27 VDOT value.



Quite a difference between the two values, but I agree that slower is better. While VDOT 27 is where you were in July, that doesn't necessarily mean that's where you are today. You should be able to run a 10:00 flat in a mile time trial based on the above.

And good grief. You want me to do MATH?! I think that the math portion is what gives me the most trouble with this book, because there's sooooo many numbers and massive explanations about WHY the numbers are what they are and my eyes just glaze over. I don't care about the why. Just tell me what they are and that's good enough for me. ENGLISH MAJOR. Words. Not numbers.

But 5 workouts. Fine fine. But that will be much later tonight or maybe even tomorrow.

LOL, well I'm definitely not a master of the english language. I butcher my sentences. So, I get it. Hopefully my summarization helped narrow the focus for you. Just take it one piece at a time.

How I write a custom training plan

Four years old now, but still a good breakdown of the step by step process.

 

[Herding_Cats]

when the workout has 1 mile T with 1 min rest, that would likely be cutting yourself short on the resting intervals since Daniels recommends 1 min rest for every 5 min of T. Sometimes he does less, but that's more rare. So with a 1 mile T (10:34 duration) you'd probably want to bump up the RI to 2 min minimally. 2 miles T and you'd probably want to increase the RI to 4-5 min.

I think if you can understand the concepts in the book, then you could conceivably write your own plan using his principles. Ultimately, that's what he wants you to do. To feel empowered enough based on the methodology to write your own plan. Let's take R for instance.

-WU/CD of at least 10-15 min each.
-Max of 2 min in a single rep. About 350m.
-Min of 30 sec in a single rep. About 100m.

View attachment 647702

-Run to rest ratio is equal to double. So if you run for 1 min, then rest for 1-2 min.
-No more than 5% of weekly mileage should be R. So if you do 25 miles in a week, then you can do 1.25 miles of R. Since R is 8:43 pace, then that's just under 11 min total of R.
-Early in the training plan, work on shorter durations (30s and 60s). As time progresses, introduce longer durations (90s and 120s).

With the above, I want you to try to write 5 different R workouts that are progressive in nature (the first workout is the easiest, and the last is the hardest) in your reply.

So something like...
1mi WU + 3(100m R + 1min RI) + 2(200m R + 1min RI) + 3(100m R + 1min RI) + 1mi CD (1k of R)

1mi WU + 3(100m R + 1min RI) + 3(200m R + 1min RI) + 3(100m R + 1min RI) + 1mi CD (1.2k of R)

1mi WU + 100m R + 1min RI + 2(200m R + 1min RI) + 300m R + 2min RI + 2(200m R + 1min RI) + 100m R + 1min RI + 1mi CD (1.3k of R)

1mi WU + 2(200m R + 1min RI) + 2(300m R + 2min RI) + 2(200m R + 1min RI) + 1mi CD (1.4k of R)

1mi WU + 100m R + 1min RI + 2(300k R + 2min RI) + 2(200m R + 1min RI) + 2(300k R + 2min RI) + 100m R + 1min RI + 1mi CD (1.8k)

I will say that I haven't really enjoyed these types of workouts the few times that I've done them. They might work better on the treadmill for me than running outside because where I run it's pretty much always a bit of up or down hill no matter which direction I go. And I don't like trying to keep track of how many times I've done a repeat. I've set it all up on my interval timer and I use a text-to-speech option so I know what pace/duration I'm supposed to be doing, but even that gets kind of tedious to set up.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I will say that I haven't really enjoyed these types of workouts the few times that I've done them. They might work better on the treadmill for me than running outside because where I run it's pretty much always a bit of up or down hill no matter which direction I go. And I don't like trying to keep track of how many times I've done a repeat. I've set it all up on my interval timer and I use a text-to-speech option so I know what pace/duration I'm supposed to be doing, but even that gets kind of tedious to set up.

Run these slightly uphill instead of slightly downhill if you can't find a flat section of road. But 100-300m isn't a long stretch of road to find. You can try on the treadmill, but you'll probably be better off outside to garner the most benefits from it.

If things are too tough to remember, then consider a few things:

1) Stick with a single distance/duration. Simply run back and forth from the same start/stop.
2) Consider putting X number of beans in pocket or a cup. Transfer each bean after each rep. No more beans, and you're done.
3) Do the number of reps that feel good, until it doesn't. When it feels like you've lost your form, then move to the CD as the workout is done.
4) Don't worry about a set pace on these. Run hard.

The above would simplify the execution of the workout and still garner a majority of the benefits.

So something like...
1mi WU + 3(100m R + 1min RI) + 2(200m R + 1min RI) + 3(100m R + 1min RI) + 1mi CD (1k of R)

1mi WU + 3(100m R + 1min RI) + 3(200m R + 1min RI) + 3(100m R + 1min RI) + 1mi CD (1.2k of R)

1mi WU + 100m R + 1min RI + 2(200m R + 1min RI) + 300m R + 2min RI + 2(200m R + 1min RI) + 100m R + 1min RI + 1mi CD (1.3k of R)

1mi WU + 2(200m R + 1min RI) + 2(300m R + 2min RI) + 2(200m R + 1min RI) + 1mi CD (1.4k of R)

1mi WU + 100m R + 1min RI + 2(300k R + 2min RI) + 2(200m R + 1min RI) + 2(300k R + 2min RI) + 100m R + 1min RI + 1mi CD (1.8k)

That's good. Just increase the RI for your 200m and 300m. The 200m is about 60 seconds for you, so that's 60-120s for rest. Sixty seconds is certainly doable, but it's going to be tough.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I just don't know if I have the mental bandwidth to wade through making/tailoring a Daniels plan down for my speed/fitness. What I need is more hours in the day where I can sit and read AND take notes and work through stuff. And that means no toddler interrupting me. I did a little more digging around and looked at the Higdon 5k plans the the intermediate plan looks like it would be doable (and I could just apply Daniels pacing guidelines to the speedwork.) And it's an 8 week plan. So that would fit too, and the 4th of July race could be one that I just do as a training run instead of a race. So many decisions. So little time.

I also got back onto runsignup and discovered that there's a half, on a Sunday, in September, a week later than the one I had been looking at, 15 minutes down the road. It's an out-and-back on a converted rail-trail that is not paved. So kind of trail-y as far as surface goes, but FLAT. It's definitely something I could go and look at/run on in the spring or summer and decide if it's packed down enough to try for a PR on. The other one that I had been considering is around 3 hours away, but the need for it to be on a Sunday makes my options extremely limited.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Weekly wrap up:

Monday: Something went on this day, and I don't remember what. But I didn't do any workouts.

Tuesday: Back on track. Did L4 Chest/Tri and 2.5mi as described a few posts back. Basically I pushed the pace, but did intervals, and it felt pretty good.

Wednesday: L4 Back/Biceps + 2mi EA. I've been trying to up my weights this week, but since these 2 workouts were repeats from last week my arms managed to remain useable.

Thursday: L4 Shoulders. I also decided to give my legs a break since I had a 5mi run coming up the next day and I was feeling Tuesday's run a little still (plus lots of plyometric stuff from the HIIT portion of the workouts.) We also had an unexpected snow/ice day since on Wednesday it was like 45, then rained, and then the temperatures dropped into the teens after midnight. Our district busses a lot of dirt roads and those basically turn into ice rinks when that happens this time of year, while the main roads are usually bare.

Friday: L4 Legs 5mi LR. This was a little too fast, but not super horribly too fast. 12:20 pace (my training plan puts LR at around 12:35.) Half day of school and a last minute basketball game cancellation for the high school (not sure why the other school cancelled because pretty much no one else in our 13 county area cancelled.) DH was officially hired as the JV baseball coach and only one other person applied and we don't like him at all. Neither does our Athletic Director, but he's going to interview him (as required) and see if he's interested in the MS coaching job. We still can't figure out a way for me to sanely take over as the MS coach, but I really, really, really don't want that guy coaching my kid.

Saturday: Planned on doing legs today instead of having a rest day, but my lower back hurts. I'm guessing it's a combination of all of the plyo moves (lots of jumping alternating lunges, jump squats, squat jacks, etc this week) and my running faster. My ankle has also been weird and bothersome again. This week it wasn't just tight, it also felt really weak sometimes. I definitely feel like my foot doesn't do the same things/motion as my other foot when I'm running and I don't know if that's an imbalance thing or if it's a compensation thing. Anyway. The couch we ordered in November got delivered. And then we went to a nearby HS basketball game that was NOT our school. Our area has 5 top-10 ranked teams for their division, and a couple more that are just outside. It's made for some great games to watch this year. One school was currently undefeated, but their conference is pretty weak and made up most of their schedule, but they're in the top 20 in the state for Division 3. The other school is in our conference (they're in the top 10 in the state for Divsion 4) and has only lost to the ranked Division 3 teams this season (which is our school and another school in our conference.) We figured it might be a really good game to watch and it did not disappoint. Double over time. Missed game-winning shots at the buzzer TWICE. The only downside was sitting on bleachers for 2.5 hours with an angry lower back.

Sunday: Back felt better in the morning, so when DD went down for her nap I went down to the basement to do my L4 Legs workout. This ended up being a bad choice. I did all of the lifting, none of the HIIT, and modified the side-planks for the core work.

--------

I did feel a lot more energized and actually wanted to do my workouts this week. I'm not sure if it's the fact that Spring Break is basically a month away, or if it's the warmer weather and more sunshine, if my brain finally got enough of a break to click back into work mode, or if it's the fact that I'm finally almost over this sinus congestion that I got from the kids. But it doesn't really matter why, I'm just glad that it happened. I have 5 weeks of workouts left until SS, and at least for today I feel good about finally finishing this program.

Food/Weight: I did pretty well this week. I'm really getting used to the fewer carb-specific things, but Friday night was homemade pizza and Sunday night was burgers and sweet potato fries, so there was a little more weekend cheating happening than I usually try to have. I also could have done a better job on eating my veggies. I know that historically when I do a program like this that it usually take a minimum of 6 weeks and then I'll suddenly have a lot more movement in the pounds/inches so I'm trying to stay motivated and get through the end of this program.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Weekly Wrap Up:
I really need to start making some notes for each day because I cannot remember anything by the time the next week rolls around. I just pull from my Garmin and then have an oh yeah, that's what I did moment.

Monday: L4 Chest/Tri +2mi walking. My back was still not pleased with me, but was out of the "favoring it a lot" phase and into the achy phase.

Tuesday: L4 Back/Biceps + 3mi. This was a 50/50 L4 workout so it was lifting for the first half and HIIT for the 2nd half. I modified the jumping moves to avoid re-angering my back and that was a successful choice.

Wednesday: took the day off. I've mostly scrapped the LO - Booty workouts at this point because I really do need that mid-week day off, and I know that all of the bridge moves in it have the potential to make my back angry again.

Thursday: L4 Shoulders+30min walk 4 kids to the dentist, which that ate up my entire morning, AND the toddler fell asleep on the way home (a few hours early from her normal nap time) which pretty much guaranteed that I wasn't going to get a workout in.

Friday: L4 Legs + 3mi L4 Shoulders. Another workout I was careful with because of the overhead presses and my tendency to arch my lower back. I don't think I've ever been more careful about engaging my core during lifting than I have the last 2 weeks. Ah the joys of aging. Then it was a night full of basketball with a triple-header of Freshman, JV, and Varsity games (with the varsity game deciding the conference champ and the set up of the district bracket for the post-season tournament.) The freshman team (that DH coaches) pulled away for a victory in the last 3 minutes of the game. The JV (DS1's team) game went down to the very last second and they lost by 1....but the first time they played this team they lost by 25 so it was a huge mental/emotional win for them to see the results of their hard work. The Varsity won by around 12, and is now ranked 8th in the state for their division. My garmin told me several times that my stress level seemed higher than usual and maybe I should take a minute to do some breathing exercises.

Saturday: DS3's basketball tournament that got cancelled the previous weekend managed to get re-scheduled. These post-season elementary tournaments can be absolutely brutal for how much basketball your kids can end up playing, because it's double elimination. Our first game was at 8am (which is early for our kids because our elementaries don't start until 9:05) and we won, played again immediately, and lost by 1. That put us into the "loser's" bracket, which we won our way out of. Our team played 6 games in a row. They got around 10-15min between each game, but we played for basically 4.5 hours straight. We forced a 2nd game in the championship round (beating the team with no losses) and ended up losing in the 5min final (because the 3rd grade tournament was starting and making them be an hour off would have really screwed things up) because our kids were absolutely exhausted. But it was a super fun day.

Sunday: Debated doing the L4 legs workout (it was the all HIIT workout, which I really don't like) but decided nah. Got groceries. Ate pizza for dinner. Started a new series on Prime. Went to be early, because Friday and Saturday were exhausting. Oh, and I put in my application for the MS Baseball coaching job because DH and I really don't like the other guy who applied, and if we are honest about things, if help is needed I will be at all of the practices and games anyway. And knowing the other guy who applied, I will be completely ignored and disregarded (because of being a FEMALE and it being a BOYS team) and only used for games out of necessity. So fingers crossed for that I guess. It'll be a circus here because DS2 also wants to dual-sport with track while the stakes are low (he's in 8th grade and this is a good way for him to decide if he likes it more than baseball.) It's only a 2mo season and the pay would cover about 1/2 of the costs of a dopey weekend. Yes. I now calculate payments in terms of "how much runDisney will this pay for."

Food/Weight:

I know that historically when I do a program like this that it usually take a minimum of 6 weeks and then I'll suddenly have a lot more movement in the pounds/inches so I'm trying to stay motivated and get through the end of this program.

I need to keep reminding myself of this because UGH I'M SO FRUSTRATED. Last week my weight was up, and as of today I'm where I was 2 weeks ago (which is -3 pounds in 4 weeks of working out and food-plan stuff.) And it's soooo annoying. I can kind of eat whatever I want and stay were I was in the beginning, so why am I doing all of this work if I'm not really getting anywhere? Missing fewer workouts would help, I'm sure.


Potential future run schedule: SIL and I talked a bunch about maybe doing a local 10k in early July, and racing it. Which changes everything that I already had tentatively put into place. So now I'm looking at maybe doing a Higdon 8k plan (which has weightlifting built in to it, and not a ton of miles which will help during baseball season.) But I really need to sit down and look at how it all spaces out. If the POT for MW changes to 2:30 for a half that will absolutely impact things too.

 

[Naomeri]

I really need to start making some notes for each day because I cannot remember anything by the time the next week rolls around. I just pull from my Garmin and then have an oh yeah, that's what I did moment.

This is the whole reason I post every day. I have to write it up every day, so I might as well just post it every day.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Hey @DopeyBadger what are your thoughts on 400m repeats at 5k pace for “someone like me.”

I re-made myself yet another possible race/training outline with the intermediate higdon 8k plan (for a Memorial Day weekend potential race), and then taking 3 days off and jumping to the intermediate 10k plan (starting at week 3 or so?) for a July 10k. And if I took a week off after that, it would give me 24wks to MW (if I end up doing any of the races then.)

the plan is mostly EB miles, with wednesdays being alternating tempo runs or 400m repeats at 5k pace. It seems like it might be an ok balance for my dislike but need for speed work?

 

[DopeyBadger]

It seems like it might be an ok balance for my dislike but need for speed work?

400m repeats at 5k is a pretty standard speed workout. I definitely think it's doable. It'll be useful for working on form, cadence, and rhythm breathing. It won't push you all that hard (relatively speaking) depending on the length of the resting intervals. So I wouldn't anticipate any large gains in fitness.

 

[Herding_Cats]

It won't push you all that hard (relatively speaking) depending on the length of the resting intervals. So I wouldn't anticipate any large gains in fitness.

So while it would be useful for general purposes, it's unlikely to help me get faster? (if that's what you mean by "fitness gains")

 

[DopeyBadger]

So while it would be useful for general purposes, it's unlikely to help me get faster? (if that's what you mean by "fitness gains")

It will help you get faster, but likely not as fast as doing other workouts. Running 400m at 5k pace (depending on the resting interval) isn't all that stressful unless you're doing lots of reps (like 12-20), reduce the rest between bouts (instead of 400m or 2-4 min, doing less rest), or not doing 400m at 5k and instead increasing the distance to something up to a mile at 5k pace. All things considered doing 400m at 5k is a simple speed work that works on some ancillary things that will make you faster, but in the big picture isn't as productive towards a final race performance as other speed workouts. So I wouldn't anticipate "large" gains in fitness, but rather you will make "some" gains in fitness because of it.

 

[HangWithMerida]

Hey @DopeyBadger what are your thoughts on 400m repeats at 5k pace for “someone like me.”

I re-made myself yet another possible race/training outline with the intermediate higdon 8k plan (for a Memorial Day weekend potential race), and then taking 3 days off and jumping to the intermediate 10k plan (starting at week 3 or so?) for a July 10k. And if I took a week off after that, it would give me 24wks to MW (if I end up doing any of the races then.)

the plan is mostly EB miles, with wednesdays being alternating tempo runs or 400m repeats at 5k pace. It seems like it might be an ok balance for my dislike but need for speed work?

Not the person you asked, but to provide a slightly different perspective from a different type of runner. If you don’t typically do speed work and generally dislike it, the plan you describe above may help you in ways more than just fitness improvement (though you will see some improvement). It is kind of an intro to speed work kind of plan. Of course, I am sure more structured speed work like those that DopeyBadger does are more productive. Like he said, 400m repeats are pretty standard.
When I started incorporating speed work, this was one of the first things my plan incorporated. One of the things that it helped the most with was getting me used to being uncomfortable. When you do most of your training at an easy pace, you kind of forget what it feels like to run at a hard effort. The other thing that I feel like it helped me with was training my body to recognize different paces. Again, when most of your runs are done at the same pace you forget what other paces feel like and it becomes harder to change gears and find those fast paces. I think the repeats were very beneficial for knowing what my 5K pace feels like. And, doing a speed workout, especially if it feels hard, is such a mental achievement. I find speed work to be quite confidence building.
I 100% admit that if I dedicated my time to more speed work like those that dopeybadger does I would probably see a bigger improvement in my pace from year to year. That said, with some relatively basic speed work and modest increases in mileage and training level, I continue to see pace improvement every year without feeling like I’m giving up too much of my other activities.

 

[Herding_Cats]

That's a really helpful perspective @HangWithMerida ! Thanks!

 

[lookingforsunshine]

I need to keep reminding myself of this because UGH I'M SO FRUSTRATED. Last week my weight was up, and as of today I'm where I was 2 weeks ago (which is -3 pounds in 4 weeks of working out and food-plan stuff.) And it's soooo annoying. I can kind of eat whatever I want and stay were I was in the beginning, so why am I doing all of this work if I'm not really getting anywhere? Missing fewer workouts would help, I'm sure.

Feeling this hard right now.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Weekly Wrap up:

This week was going really well until Thursday hit and then it got massively derailed.

Monday: DID MY PRINCESS 5k! Woo hoo! I was scheduled for L4 Chest/Tri and 3mi, so I just tacked on the extra 0.1 and checked that one off the list. Now I can put that medal on the rack whenever it gets around to showing up (I'm guessing late April.)

Tuesday: Holy cats it's MARCH already?? L4 Back/Biceps + 2.5mi EA. Nothing super interesting to report. The lifting workouts are still torching my arms, which I guess means that I'm progressing my weights appropriately. I think this is also the furthest I've gotten in this workout program? I usually get bored and quit by now. I think I have 1 more "normal" week and then there's a stupid amount of HIIT in the last 2 weeks for 'weight loss.' Let's hope that actually happens.

Wednesday: off

Thursday: L4 Shoulders. Ugh this one really tries to aggravate my back. I feel like I could definitely lift more for some of the presses, but then I arch in my lower back and that's no bueno. I was supposed to do 30min on the treadmill (walking) and only made it 23 (1.5mi.) Long story short, my oldest kid ended up on the receiving end of some massive b*&&$#!* from the varsity basketball coach. And my kid had the guts/balls/whatever you want to call it to GO TALK TO THE COACH about it and was completely blown off and treated like crap. Ugh. I'm still made. When I wake up every night at around 1am (when DD comes and gets in bed with us) I am laying awake stewing about it for at least an hour. If I didn't also have an 8th grader who will have to deal with this coach for 4 years, I would have gone full scorched-earth-mama-bear over it.

Friday: L4 Legs/5.5mi Yeah that didn't happen.

Saturday: off 5mi LR OUTSIDE! Woo! OUTDOORS! It was in the 50s for the 2nd day in a row, and I drove where I usually run to make sure that the pavement was clear of ice and that there weren't too many huge puddles across the road (there were a few that took up a whole lane but I had room to go around them.) I definitely needed this. I did 80/30 intervals (since I've been on the treadmill for 4 months and frozen pavement is pretty different to run on) and didn't pay too much attention to my pace, but just tried to keep it around the same effort level. Miles 1-4 were 13:00, 12:53, 13:16 (about half up-hill), and 12:58 so going by effort was pretty successful. The last mile is partially the opposite direction of mile 3 so it's a slight/rolling downhill for about half of it, AND it was starting to sprinkle so I decided to just open things up and go faster just to see how it felt. Because running in 45 degrees and rain ain't happening. I think I only did 1 30sec walk break (because I had to sprint around a puddle so I wouldn't get soaked by a passing car), and a couple of steps slowed down to grab the water bottle I stashed at the stop sign. Mile 5 was 11:43, which is the fastest I've push anything in months. MONTHS. It's around what my HM tempo should be, which considering that *now* makes me feel out of shape, but I'm still considering it a win since I have done pretty much *only* LR/EA running since around November.

here’s my sheet-of-ice driveway that I definitely walked before and after my run. Wow. Upside down? Ok then.


Sunday: 3mi I spent ALL OF THE MONEY yesterday because I grocery shopped AND filled up the gas tank. And I have to go back to Costco on Wednesday because they have a bunch of stuff going "on sale" that I usually buy. Watched Mrs Doubtfire with the kids (wow are there are lot more adult jokes in that than I remember!), and then watched 21 Bridges (because Chadwick Boseman was amazing) after the toddler went to bed. It was pretty good, but kind of predictable.

Food: I was having a good week until Thursday afternoon/evening hit. I definitely ate some feelings at the end of the week.

Weight: no change. Ugh. This is stupid.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Mid week update. I broke out the epsom salt today, which sums up how this week is going so far.

Since I missed my Friday workout, I decided to make it up on:
Monday because the upper body lifting was circuit, so there wouldn't be any hiit, and then I would decide if I still felt up to running (or if the toddler was awake by then.) Did the lifting portion of the legs workout. Thought to myself, wow, that really feels like I got after it this time! and then turned on my usual Monday L4 Chest/Triceps workout. And by the time I got to the pushup "burnout" portion at the end I could not do any pushups. Not even on my knees. I just laid there wondering how much I would regret doubling things up.

Tuesday I woke up with sore legs (mostly in my quads, but definitely also feeling it my inner thighs). And glutes. And arms. And armpits. Yaaaaaay. Did L4 Back/Biceps, AND the hiit part of the workout. Which was burpees without the pushup, wide mtn climbers (the easiest part of the hiit), and squat jumps. Oy. And then I forced myself onto the treadmill for 2.5mi EA because it'll be good for me to get the muscles moving and get my legs loosened back up from all that jumping. Hah. Whatever. I did take about a 2min walk break half way through to re-dress a stuffed animal for DD (who woke up half way through my run) AND because my running form was completely going to crap. My legs were so tired.

Wednesday Off Day. Epsom salt. NOT making up my 3mi from Monday that I didn't do. NOT doing the little obsessed booty workout. I did go back to costco to get a bunch of stuff we use a lot of that's on sale, and to a 2nd-hand store for more warm weather clothes for DD for spring break, so I haven't been just lying around all day doing nothing. I'm supposed to do an all hiit leg workout in 2 days and that's slightly terrifying.

 

[Herding_Cats]

and to finish up last week:

Thursday L4 Shoulders and 2mi EA. The HIIT stuff is starting to feel more manageable. This run felt really, really good. I was strongly considering ignoring the scheduled distance and just running until DD woke up from her nap, but then she woke up with 1/4mi to go. Figures.

Friday L4 Legs and 4mi LR No. I forget what I ended up doing on Friday, but it wasn't running or lifting.

Saturday OFF. Should have tried to make up something from Friday, but instead we cleaned the house all morning (DH still somehow thinks that we can clean 10+ days before leaving for a trip and "maintain" until we leave....silly, silly man....we have FOUR KIDS.) Then it was out for our anniversary dinner. Somehow we've been married for 17 years. I'm not sure that's possible because there's no way I'm old enough to have been married for that long.

Sunday 3mi EA Nope again. BIL and SIL came over so we could finish trip planning, meal planning, and work on an enormous pick-up grocery order. We watched "Turning Red" with the kids and then tried to go to bed at a reasonable time because Daylight Savings time changes suck.

My troublesome foot was more annoying than usual this week, which is one reason I'm not kicking myself too hard over not running Friday-Sunday. I'm definitely going to talk to my doc about it when I get around to going in for my physical this spring. And I'm for-sure going to be packing my k-tape for vacation.

Food/weight: sometime around midweek and said screw it to my food plan and sort of ate whatever I wanted. Not that I went completely crazy, but if cereal sounded good, I had a bowl of cereal. No weight change again. Which means I'm on something like week 5 now and I've lost a whole entire 3 pounds. Dumb.

I was going to try to test my ear hat during my run today, but I honestly don't know if I'll even do it. DD woke up at 4am (new time) this morning and I had a terrible time falling back asleep and then DH's alarm started going off at 5:30 juuuust as I was finally falling back to sleep. And of course he hit snooze 4x. Like DUDE. Just set your alarm for 6:00 and quit torturing me! So I've been up since 4, which really feels like 3 to my body. Yay. Also, I really need the school's athletic director to hire a baseball coach already so I know if I need to start re-arranging my running schedule.