Even Disney Is Worried About the High Cost of a Disney Vacation

[Aluminum Falcon]

The only reason they are expanding the parks now is because of EU. But at least it is happening.

I feel like this is the biggest myth that’s so easily dispelled, when has Disney stopped adding to the parks in the last decade plus, aside from Covid. Just to rattle off a few, new fantasy land, Toy Story land, Star Wars, Pandora, tron, guardians. I’m aware the retort to this is that the rides aren’t good enough/ they really Disney add on all that much, ect but those additions happened it’s lunacy to me to pretend that those didn’t happen, and so so so many people on these boards do just that

 

[SL6827]

I feel like this is the biggest myth that’s so easily dispelled, when has Disney stopped adding to the parks in the last decade plus, aside from Covid. Just to rattle off a few, new fantasy land, Toy Story land, Star Wars, Pandora, tron, guardians. I’m aware the retort to this is that the rides aren’t good enough/ they really Disney add on all that much, ect but those additions happened it’s lunacy to me to pretend that those didn’t happen, and so so so many people on these boards do just that

I'm thinking Villians Land as the major expansion. I don't think it would have even been mentioned without EU. Star Wars land was also a major expansion, the others, I wouldn't consider major, but still can be fun.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I'm thinking Villians Land as the major expansion. I don't think it would have even been mentioned without EU. Star Wars land was also a major expansion, the others, I wouldn't consider major, but still can be fun.

So it’s not that they haven’t added, it’s just not to the appropriate level of adding. I would argue that when you add everything up it’s pretty massive.and The next leap will indeed blow the last decade out of the water, but it doesn’t mean the prior was lackluster. I would also say that Disneys quality, substance, and sheer number of additions far outweighs what universal has added in the same time period. Not to say Universal is a slouch, it’s just not really close when you go apples to apples

 

[HokieRaven5]

Universal announced the 2nd generation of interactive wands coming to Orlando this weekend will debut at $85.

The current wands sell for $65.

I’m sure new designs/features are totally worth a 30% increase.

 

[SL6827]

So it’s not that they haven’t added, it’s just not to the appropriate level of adding. I would argue that when you add everything up it’s pretty massive.and The next leap will indeed blow the last decade out of the water, but it doesn’t mean the prior was lackluster. I would also say that Disneys quality, substance, and sheer number of additions far outweighs what universal has added in the same time period. Not to say Universal is a slouch, it’s just not really close when you go apples to apples

They could have done more in less time i think. Did Star Wars land take five years to build, I was thinking I read that, but I really don't know. But I also think there is/was an incentive to keep expansions on the lower end in order to keep crowd levels higher? Higher crowd levels, more $$$ to skip the lines for Disney?

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

They could have done more in less time i think. Did Star Wars land take five years to build, I was thinking I read that, but I really don't know. But I also think there is/was an incentive to keep expansions on the lower end in order to keep crowd levels higher? Higher crowd levels, more $$$ to skip the lines for Disney?

That was prior to them implementing lightning lane and for that matter genie+. Also their contemporaries charged for line skipping far before Disney and they never get the shade people throw at Disney for doing the same thing. Ie what you stated above about slowing growth in the parks to make more money for line skipping.

All I’m trying to say is be fair. It’s ok to say that Disney and Universal seem to be in some long standing arms race. What’s not fair is to say that Disney is only being reactionary when that clearly isn’t the case, and that they purposely stopped adding onto the parks (which is not the case) to make money on line jumping programs.

 

[LAS2AMS]

In this case, i disagree. Again, it is a tiny number of people but it is more than it used to be. I think since Covid, it became so much more difficult to hire people for jobs like this, they got stuck with more poor performers than in the past. And as Brian said earlier, everyone is angry now, which I blame squarely on social media amplifying everything out of proportion and really damaging young people. This is also a problem that was not there in the past.

You’re stretching. Less than 10 years ago, most WDW positions were near minimum wage. Today, employees earn some of the strongest wages in Central Florida. What’s there to be angry about?

To say that Disney employees that historically earned min wage went the extra mile to make things magical is just hocus pocus. I spent a lot of time at WDW in the 1990s and 2000s. I have an excellent memory and I know that while the demeanor was always excellent, it wasn’t much different than it is today. You’re remembering things as they weren’t, most likely because WDW isn’t as much of a happy place as it once was.

I read a post the other day from a high school senior who was planning her first trip ever to WDW. When she goes, she’ll experience the same magic that you did for years. If she keeps going, she will grow older as a person and the magic will wear off, just like you me and most everyone else.

 

[LAS2AMS]

They could have done more in less time i think. Did Star Wars land take five years to build, I was thinking I read that, but I really don't know. But I also think there is/was an incentive to keep expansions on the lower end in order to keep crowd levels higher? Higher crowd levels, more $$$ to skip the lines for Disney?

You’re cherry picking. Disney over expanded in the 1990s. The 2000s saw two major travel downturns - 9/11 and the Great Recession. While the parks were crowded during peak periods, attendance was mediocre most of the year. It’s not sustainable to build out high cost attractions and entertainment when you have to deeply discount to get people into the parks most of the year.

Disney poured tons of money into events like Soap Opera Weekends and the various Epcot festivals… to get people into the park during slower periods.

In the last 10 years, travel trends have changed. Disney has been a huge beneficiary. When attendance and revenue showed strong growth, Disney showed a willingness to grow capacity. Covid, unfortunately, derailed this as it took away much of the cash flow. But Disney is planning its most angreasive expansion plans today since the 1990s.

People brag about the deals they got in 2010, then complain Disney wasn’t expanding its capacity…

 

[New Mouse]

All I’m trying to say is be fair. It’s ok to say that Disney and Universal seem to be in some long standing arms race. What’s not fair is to say that Disney is only being reactionary when that clearly isn’t the case, and that they purposely stopped adding onto the parks (which is not the case) to make money on line jumping programs.

If you're saying Cars at MK isn't reactionary then Disney needs to try harder.

 

[LAS2AMS]

If you're saying Cars at MK isn't reactionary then Disney needs to try harder.

Why do we keep being ridiculous? Cars Land consistently receives some of the highest ratings at any Disney park. Imagineers have long wanted to replicate it at WDW, with many sources reporting it was in the final stages of planning to go into DHS alongside Galaxy’s Edge (but Disney ultimately went with TS, largely due to the cost and scope of Cars Land).

The MK is the most popular theme park in the world. We can all agree it needs additional capacity, and the only expansion pad is behind BTM. Yeah, it sucks that the Rivers of America are going away… but Tom Sawyer Island has long been a wasteland (closes at dusk and anytime it storms) and the gain far outweighs what’s being lost.

Epic Universe’s initial buildout is estimated to cost nearly $7B, not including land acquisition costs. A fifth gate would cost WDW at least $6B and probably closer to $10B or more. Anyone who thinks Disney is going to spend that kind of money… to lower ticket prices… is just fooling themselves.

 

[Minnie1222]

They could have done more in less time i think. Did Star Wars land take five years to build, I was thinking I read that, but I really don't know.

Even if Star Wars took five years to build, think of what else was being debuted during those five years.

Star Wars Land opened in 2019.
Toy Story Land opened in 2018.
Pandora opened in 2017.
Frozen in 2016.
Mine Train in 2014.

️️️️️️

After 2019, Disney also debuted:
Runaway Train in 2020.
Remy in 2021.
Guardians in 2022.
Tron in 2023.
Moana in 2023.
Tiana in 2024.

 

[HokieRaven5]

They could have done more in less time i think. Did Star Wars land take five years to build, I was thinking I read that, but I really don't know. But I also think there is/was an incentive to keep expansions on the lower end in order to keep crowd levels higher? Higher crowd levels, more $$$ to skip the lines for Disney?

Galaxy’s Edge construction began in both parks in April 2016. They opened May and August 2019, so 3 years+.

Rise of the Resistance opened December 2019 and January of 2020.

 

[New Mouse]

How much did Galaxy's Edge and Toy Story Land increase capacity? I can't imagine it was a ton.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Assuming a 12 hour park day - Lights Motor Action could at most have been seen by 20,000 guests a day (max 4 shows with full capacity)

Studio Backlot Tour depends on Tram time which reported best on a crowded day is every 4 minutes so at best 36,000 guests a day.

So 56,000 guests per day for what was before.

Combined SWGE/TSL (Slinky - 1440 per hour, Saucers 900 per hour, Falcon 1700, Rise 1300 at the low end) is around 64,000 guests per day, so about a 14% increase in daily capacity from those additions, just on attractions. Tack on things like Droid Building, Light Saber Building, Ogas, Dining options there’s more capacity.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Assuming a 12 hour park day - Lights Motor Action could at most have been seen by 20,000 guests a day (max 4 shows with full capacity)

Studio Backlot Tour depends on Tram time which reported best on a crowded day is every 4 minutes so at best 36,000 guests a day.

So 56,000 guests per day for what was before.

Combined SWGE/TSL is around 64,000 guests per day, so about a 14% increase in daily capacity from those additions, just on attractions. Tack on things like Droid Building, Light Saber Building, Ogas, Dining options there’s more capacity.

Capacity is such a red herring, a lot of people call it out without even understanding what was done with capacity. It seems to be used as a trump card for some reason, and the kicker is that no matter what information is presented to the conversation all that needs to be said is that Disney still didn't do enough to address it.

I would challenge people to explain exactly how they would address capacity without just saying "charge less and add more"

 

[New Mouse]

I would challenge people to explain exactly how they would address capacity without just saying "charge less and add more"

Add more and charge more. We've got the charge more point down and weve reaped the finanical benefits of charging more without expenditures. Time to add more.

Capacity for something like lights motors Is definitely different. You suck thousands in for 30 minutes at a time, it really relieves stress on the entire park for predetermined stretches of time. Ditto Indy. Indy has run its course but when that place is filled it sucks up people.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Add more and charge more. We've got the charge more point down and weve reaped the finanical benefits of charging more without expenditures. Time to add more.

Capacity for something like lights motors Is definitely different. You suck thousands in for 30 minutes at a time, it really relieves stress on the entire park for predetermined stretches of time. Ditto Indy. Indy has run its course but when that place is filled it sucks up people.

they have added more, saying that they have charged more without acknowledging the additions that are already in place is foolish at best.

 

[fatmanatee]

Universal announced the 2nd generation of interactive wands coming to Orlando this weekend will debut at $85.

The current wands sell for $65.

I’m sure new designs are totally worth a 30% increase.

The more shocking price might be the old wands, when they heck did those get that expensive? I could have sworn they used to be 35 or 40 bucks.

New ones seem neat and have some fun features but that’s a tough price to swallow. Actually think Disney needs to get more involved in this sort of interactive space.

 

[LAS2AMS]

It’s difficult to measure the capacity of Galaxy’s Edge. It was suppose to be an immersive experience, modeled after the success of Car’s Land. In Car’s Land, guests take in the sights, engage with the characters, etc. I’m not a Star Wars fan so I don’t care for GE, but it still surprises me, at least at DL, how empty the land often is. It clearly didn’t have the impact Disney was expecting, which is why they’re now making changes to the timeline/ etc.

 

[HokieRaven5]

The more shocking price might be the old wands, when they heck did those get that expensive? I could have sworn they used to be 35 or 40 bucks.

New ones seem neat and have some fun features but that’s a tough price to swallow. Actually think Disney needs to get more involved in this sort of interactive space.

If they expand what the Magic Band+ can do and interact with that would be a good avenue to take.

Universal has multiple pay for more experience interactive elements between the Wands and the Power Up Bands.