ethics of keeping a dog outside

[happygirl]

Why not just get a panic button attached to your key ring? We have one that will set my house alarm off and the police will automatically be called.

Not sure about how dangerous your area is, but if I felt I had to keep 2 large dogs outside at all times to feel safe, it would be time to move.

Aren't you the same girl who was against letting the boxer be inside? Now you are against letting dogs be outside?

 

[surfergirl602]

I don't think it is. How much land do you think a horse needs? Have you ever been on a farm?

Umm, yes. I live on one. I think that fencing up my horses in just one acre would be cruel to them. They like to run. They like to wander. It could be just mine, but I wouldn't put them in anything smaller than 5. JMO, and my horses. With a barn, an inground pool, two guard dogs, where would that give horses the room to graze? Again, just my opinion and the area I live in.

 

[surfergirl602]

An acre is small if you have a house, barn, pool, 2 dogs and a horse.

Thank you!!! This is what I was getting at! With all that "stuff", I wouldn't put horses in one acre.

 

[michellev]

An Acre isn't that small

One acre is equivalent to:

•200 parked cars
•about a third of a football (soccer) field, which is between 90 and 120 m (100 and 130 yard) long and between 45 and 90 m (50 and 100 yard) wide (2.67 acres)
•three quarters of an American football field, which is 160 feet (48.5 m) wide and 360 feet (109.1 m) long (1.32 acres)

So it's almost the same size of a football field, Which is plenty big enough for two dogs or a horse

An acre is small. Do you live on an acre? I do. My house sits on a fenced acre and we have another unfenced 7 acres. The OP is not talking about one fenced acre for the horse. On that acre she also has: a house, a barn and a pool. I only have a house on my acre and I can tell you with great certainty that you could not adequately keep 2 large dogs and a horse on my fenced property. I don't even have the pool, 2 car garage OR the barn.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

Thank you!!! This is what I was getting at! With all that "stuff", I wouldn't put horses in one acre.

I wouldn't have a full size horse on an acre, either but from the information I just read when I googled miniature horses it doesn't look like they're much (if any) bigger than Kodi (my roommate's Lab/Weimeraner mix.) I'd say there is plenty of room on an acre of land for three animals his size to roam.

 

[happygirl]

An acre is small. Do you live on an acre? I do. My house sits on a fenced acre and we have another unfenced 7 acres. The OP is not talking about one fenced acre for the horse. On that acre she also has: a house, a barn and a pool. I only have a house on my acre and I can tell you with great certainty that you could not adequately keep 2 large dogs and a horse on my fenced property. I don't even have the pool, 2 car garage OR the barn.

Yes, I have several acres I have a house and a barn no pool but I have several animals that fit just fine on it.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Pea-n-Me, you (well, the articles you are posting) are making it sound as if every outside dog is left with not enough water, not enough food, ignored by the family, not given a warm (or cool) place to be, etc.

Unfortunately, it is the stark reality for many dogs.

Here's what I said in my very first post.

I don't have an issue with dogs being kept outside persay. It's the law that a dog must be cared for: fed, sheltered and provided medical care.

The problem that some people have with dogs being kept outside is that these dogs often become "forgotten", as in "out of sight, out of mind".

And it's true - I don't have a problem with outside dogs if they're cared for properly. I think it would be a great life for a dog to work a farm, etc.

But from the OP and later posts, this isn't the sense I got at all. Others have outlined the problems with the OP's situation as described and I won't repeat, but I do concur. I happen think it's a bad choice IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION. Wildernesslodgelover asked for opininons and this is mine. I am not only concerned for the dogs, but for her. She'll be opening herself up to liability with two dogs left alone as guard dogs for 23hrs a day. Sorry if this opinion offends.

 

[happygirl]

So even if it's not much for a the dogs to run, Is it better to kill them?

If you don't think a acre is enough room for the dogs outside. There is no way there is enough room inside a house for them to run

 

[BelleWDW]

She acted like I told her I want to do scientific experiments on her dogs or sacrafice them in a religious ritual. She actually said to me she would rather leave a dog on death row than have it live outside. That is an exact quote.

I told her I totally respect her opinion (I mean, let's face it, she LOVES dogs, gives a lot of time and money to her effort of rescuing dogs, I am not gonna dis her) and kind of half heartedly tried to explain my set up, but she was not interested in hearing it.

I live in a very hot climate and have an outside dog. He sits/sleeps under the porch right under a ceiling fan that blows 24/7. Lots of shade and water. He's happy

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Have to say I got the same vibe from every article that was linked/posted.. It was clearly "assumed" that any outdoor dog would be neglected, mistreated, starved, chained, left without water, left without shelter, and certainly not receive any of the proper veterinary care and precautions..

Biased doesn't even begin to cover it..

Of course they are biased: they live and breathe the heartbreak every day.

 

[janey99]

Thank you!!! This is what I was getting at! With all that "stuff", I wouldn't put horses in one acre.

Be careful surfergirl and disneystacy, if you point out the obvious about the OP's small piece of property you are a big meanie who is denying her pride of ownership!

Been there, done that last night.

Jane

 

[happygirl]

Be careful surfergirl and disneystacy, if you point out the obvious about the OP's small piece of property you are a big meanie who is denying her pride of ownership!

Been there, done that last night.

Jane

Obvious to who?? just because that what you think doesn't make it the truth

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Just curious - for those who advocate No Kill at any cost.

Did the ASPCA make the right decision on Oreo? http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/aspca-issues-statement-on-euthanasia-of-oreo-69976997.html

Or is he someone whose life should have been spared, perhaps to live out his life in someone's back yard? (Sounds like he might have made a great "guard dog".)

These truly aren't Black and White issues; they're complex and oftentimes heartwrenching. But if people are making them from their knowledge and experiences based on their many years of working with these cases, then I trust they're making the right decisions. The people to be angry with are not the rescuers.

FWIW, I couldn't care less about the acreage in someone's yard. Or the size of their apartment, for that matter. Or outside or inside. To me, it's about treating the dog right, regardless.

 

[happygirl]

Just curious - for those who advocate No Kill at any cost.

Did the ASPCA make the right decision on Oreo? http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/aspca-issues-statement-on-euthanasia-of-oreo-69976997.html

Or is he someone whose life should have been spared, perhaps to live out his life in someone's back yard? (Sounds like he might have made a great "guard dog".)

These truly aren't Black and White issues; they're complex and oftentimes heartwrenching. But if people are making them from their knowledge and experiences based on their many years of working with these cases, then I trust they're making the right decisions. The people to be angry with are not the rescuers.

FWIW, I couldn't care less about the acreage in someone's yard. Or the size of their apartment, for that matter. Or outside or inside. To me, it's about treating the dog right, regardless.

I really don't think you can compare what happend to Oreo and someone wanting to keep there dogs outside.

If a dog comes from a place where it's abused the dog is more then likely going to be aggressive and scared if the dog can't be rehabilited sp? Then there is no choice but to put it down

By they way I wished the wouild have thrown Oreo owner of a tall building

 

[Skywalker]

I think it would be better, if you HAD to have an outside dog, to try and find two puppies because if they grow up that way right from the start I guess they would find it normal.

But two adult dogs it seems cruel because if they have lived in a home before they would probably want inside. And if they grew up never having a home then they deseve to find that.

And what if your two outside dogs spend their time yapping their heads off and scratching and pawing at your doors because they want inside? I personally have known more dogs that want to be inside with their people.

Oh and by the way I agree an acre is pretty small for a house, an inground pool, a barn, two dogs and a horse.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I really don't think you can compare what happend to Oreo and someone wanting to keep there dogs outside.

I wasn't.

I was asking the question of people who advocate No Kill At All Costs - to illustrate my point about rescue workers and dealing with tough cases nobody wants to think about, and to show that these issues aren't always black and white/cut and dry, like some would have you believe.

 

[CathrynRose]

Just curious - for those who advocate No Kill at any cost.

Did the ASPCA make the right decision on Oreo? http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/aspca-issues-statement-on-euthanasia-of-oreo-69976997.html

Or is he someone whose life should have been spared, perhaps to live out his life in someone's back yard? (Sounds like he might have made a great "guard dog".)

These truly aren't Black and White issues; they're complex and oftentimes heartwrenching. But if people are making them from their knowledge and experiences based on their many years of working with these cases, then I trust they're making the right decisions. The people to be angry with are not the rescuers.

FWIW, I couldn't care less about the acreage in someone's yard. Or the size of their apartment, for that matter. Or outside or inside. To me, it's about treating the dog right, regardless.

The Oreo story: Bugs me. I don't know if what they did was right or wrong. Like you said - too many variables to have a one size fits all, for the issue.

And the apartment issue wasn't a size thing. It was a comparsion between a potential adopter with (specific breed) experience, a large lot, a family that all wanted him VERSUS a young girl (24, I think?) who lived in an apartment with her mom - who did not want anything to do with said dog - thus said dog would be locked in the 24 y/o's bedroom all day - even if Mom was home. The 24 y/o wasn't familar with the breed, and was a typical 24 y/o (still went out after work, weekends - sometimes spent the night somewhere else)

It wasn't a question of apartment versus house. I think most people would agree, an owner who takes the time for walks, or outside play or what have you, can still be a great owner even if they're in a studio. KWIM?

Heck, I'm in a ranch and I have an 85 lb dog. Charley generally doesn't *run* through the house, anyways. **Unless I'm playing "I'm gunna get'chu" with him.

I think it would be better, if you HAD to have an outside dog, to try and find two puppies because if they grow up that way right from the start I guess they would find it normal.

.

I'm actually surprised I'm saying this, having a spoiled rotten dog - who get's the fanciest of food, only dog bakery treats, has had a multitude of collars (and clothes!) during his time with us, and sleeps on our bed.

I don't think being outside is the end all, for the dogs. I think if you're still interacting with the doggies, and they just happen to have their accommodations, outside, may not be so bad.

I'll tell you my 'fears' - for lack of a better word:

Your Chi - who is scared of dogs, needs to be socialized with them. He/she just must. Otherwise, you're going to be Alpha-ing those outside dogs, and they'll know when lil' chi is outside, and with a bigger breed, you could possibly be looking for trouble. Honestly. The whole gang, all of you - Chi, outside dogs, your family has to be one big pack, for it to work, IMO.

Your outside dogs - will they 'understand' why Chi is inside, and they're not? This is a question I'm generally curious about. Dog jealousy happen in dogs?? I dunno.

And the elements. It's really *hot* where you're at. Are you sure your barn fan, is enough? I'd avoid all short snouted dogs. They don't do well in heat - let alone wicked humid Florida summer heat.

I dunno. I'm torn on this whole thing.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

Just curious - for those who advocate No Kill at any cost.

Did the ASPCA make the right decision on Oreo? http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/aspca-issues-statement-on-euthanasia-of-oreo-69976997.html

Or is he someone whose life should have been spared, perhaps to live out his life in someone's back yard? (Sounds like he might have made a great "guard dog".)

These truly aren't Black and White issues; they're complex and oftentimes heartwrenching. But if people are making them from their knowledge and experiences based on their many years of working with these cases, then I trust they're making the right decisions. The people to be angry with are not the rescuers.

FWIW, I couldn't care less about the acreage in someone's yard. Or the size of their apartment, for that matter. Or outside or inside. To me, it's about treating the dog right, regardless.

They did the right thing.....but I wish it was legal to euthanize the owner as well.

 

[Mermaid02]

The OP had her mind made up when she started the post- she was merely looking for folks to validate her viewpoint.

 

[michellev]

I think there are situations where an outside dog works well. That said, however, I don't think this is one of those situations. Based on what the OP is wanting, I think she is looking for a perfect dog(s), one that will be very difficult to find. She needs:

A)Dogs who will bark ONLY at strangers entering her property. They won't bark at friendly passerby, strange noises, etc. thus never disturbing her neighbours.

B)Dogs who will get along well with each other, her children, her dog unfriendly chi and her miniature horse.

C)Dogs who will not require much training, but will be easily trained to not run out the gate or dig under the fence when bored.

D)Dogs who, while on "death row" are otherwise perfect and won't be adopted by anyone else who would give them a more ideal life.

I also think it's easy to say that someone will be out playing, etc. with the dogs a lot of the time, but the reality is there are lots of times when the weather is nasty or you get busy, etc. where you just don't have time for the dog.

What happens when these dogs don't fit the exact criteria needed? Do they go back to the shelter and other, perhaps better dogs selected?