ethics of keeping a dog outside

[disneystacy]

I think there are situations where an outside dog works well. That said, however, I don't think this is one of those situations. Based on what the OP is wanting, I think she is looking for a perfect dog(s), one that will be very difficult to find. She needs:

A)Dogs who will bark ONLY at strangers entering her property. They won't bark at friendly passerby, strange noises, etc. thus never disturbing her neighbours.

B)Dogs who will get along well with each other, her children, her dog unfriendly chi and her miniature horse.

C)Dogs who will not require much training, but will be easily trained to not run out the gate or dig under the fence when bored.

D)Dogs who, while on "death row" are otherwise perfect and won't be adopted by anyone else who would give them a more ideal life.

I also think it's easy to say that someone will be out playing, etc. with the dogs a lot of the time, but the reality is there are lots of times when the weather is nasty or you get busy, etc. where you just don't have time for the dog.

What happens when these dogs don't fit the exact criteria needed? Do they go back to the shelter and other, perhaps better dogs selected?

Thank you! Well said!

 

[disneystacy]

Just curious - for those who advocate No Kill at any cost.

Did the ASPCA make the right decision on Oreo? http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/aspca-issues-statement-on-euthanasia-of-oreo-69976997.html

Or is he someone whose life should have been spared, perhaps to live out his life in someone's back yard? (Sounds like he might have made a great "guard dog".)

These truly aren't Black and White issues; they're complex and oftentimes heartwrenching. But if people are making them from their knowledge and experiences based on their many years of working with these cases, then I trust they're making the right decisions. The people to be angry with are not the rescuers.

FWIW, I couldn't care less about the acreage in someone's yard. Or the size of their apartment, for that matter. Or outside or inside. To me, it's about treating the dog right, regardless.

I agree and as I have said in my previous post I am a former vet tech and and volunteered at a animal rescue. It is extremely sad for alot of these animals whose owners had good intentions, but didn't think things through.
What sounds good on paper, sometimes doesn't work in reality, thus so many dogs in shelters.
I see alot of red flags and high expectations for these animals the op wants to adopt, and not even the indoor/outdoor issue.

 

[Planogirl]

Does the OP live in a rural area? Yes, that can make a difference. I don't see how a horse, pool and so on will fit on 1 acre though.

In my family members' case, the dogs they have outside just wandered up and they adopted them. Lots of dogs are still dumped in the country and the people who live in that area take pity on them and start feeding them.

It's just not like in the city, animals are outside and usually not even fenced in. People drive slowly and often let their dogs ride in the back of trucks (which I don't like). A lot of the people are farmers and another dog or two doesn't seem to bother them.

However again, an acre doesn't seem like much space.

 

[luvsJack]

Unfortunately, it is the stark reality for many dogs.

Here's what I said in my very first post.


And it's true - I don't have a problem with outside dogs if they're cared for properly. I think it would be a great life for a dog to work a farm, etc.

But from the OP and later posts, this isn't the sense I got at all. Others have outlined the problems with the OP's situation as described and I won't repeat, but I do concur. I happen think it's a bad choice IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION. Wildernesslodgelover asked for opininons and this is mine. I am not only concerned for the dogs, but for her. She'll be opening herself up to liability with two dogs left alone as guard dogs for 23hrs a day. Sorry if this opinion offends.

It is the stark reality for SOME dogs. Everyone I know that has a dog, has a dog living outside. Not one of these people mistreat, ignore nor neglect their dogs. To act as if these articles are the rule, not the exception is just wrong.

The understanding I get from the OP is that she wants a "watchdog" of sorts. Just two largish dogs that bark. Not guard dogs as in trained to guard the property. Just a dog, living in the yard, more or less watching his own turf.

And didn't she say she is a sahm? I am not understanding why the dogs will be alone 23 hours a day.


Everyone is so overly concerned about the acre (not you pea-n-me; but others). She didn't say she was raising cows on that acre, she is going to have two dogs and a very small horse--as in dog size. Some of you would be surprised at what can be done with an acre. Besides, if the dogs lived in the house they would have less running room that an acre!

 

[monkey68]

Of course they are biased: they live and breathe the heartbreak every day.

I see people who get hit by cars everyday, my mother sees kids with severe learning disabilities every day. Doesn't mean everybody gets hit by a car walking down the street, nor does it mean every child has severe learning issues. You just see what your line of work puts you in. Does it happen? Absolutely. But you also have plenty of animals get abused living inside. So really, I don't put much weight into those biased articles written by a group of people that only see the bad, because of their line of work.

 

[Gabes_mommy]

I just wanted to comment on one issue.

I live in South Florida. I have a dog who would spend every waking moment outside if I let him. The heat does not seem to phase him at all. He runs around in the yard happily barking all day long.

He is technically an "inside" dog but he just loves the outdoors. My point is, yes, South FL is hot in the summer, but not too hot to enjoy being outdoors, at least in my cairn terrier's perspective. Just as an aside - I went to college in Chicago and I think it was actually hotter there in the summer than where I live. Florida is hot more of the year, but not necessarily hotter during the summer if that makes sense.

 

[maxiesmom]

Everyone is so overly concerned about the acre (not you pea-n-me; but others). She didn't say she was raising cows on that acre, she is going to have two dogs and a very small horse--as in dog size. Some of you would be surprised at what can be done with an acre. Besides, if the dogs lived in the house they would have less running room that an acre!

Our house sits on 3/4 of an acre. We don't have either a barn or a pool, but there is not really that much land left, and we have a small sized house. So the OP is not going to have a ton of land left for the dogs to roam around on and be happy. They are going to be comfined to a rather small area and expected to be happy. And I don't think that is going to happen.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

It is the stark reality for SOME dogs.

You say some. I say many. We're close.

Everyone I know that has a dog, has a dog living outside.

And I don't know a one, let alone a true outdoor working dog.

I see people who get hit by cars everyday, my mother sees kids with severe learning disabilities every day. Doesn't mean everybody gets hit by a car walking down the street, nor does it mean every child has severe learning issues. You just see what your line of work puts you in. Does it happen? Absolutely. But you also have plenty of animals get abused living inside. So really, I don't put much weight into those biased articles written by a group of people that only see the bad, because of their line of work.

The question was asked why the articles were biased. I said because they were the only articles available; that people who work with neglect cases take them to heart, naturally, and write articles like those in their efforts to educate the public. (I'd love to think they see lots of good things, but from what I can tell, it isn't the case - especially in a kill shelter.)

Let me ask you this: do you plan to write articles when you become a doctor? If so, why? Surely whatever you write about won't apply to every single patient you treat.

 

[MrsPete]

The question was asked why the articles were biased. I said because they were the only articles available; that people who work with neglect cases take them to heart, naturally, and write articles like those in their efforts to educate the public. (I'd love to think they see lots of good things, but from what I can tell, it isn't the case - especially in a kill shelter.)

The articles were heavily biased and light on facts. Let's call 'em what they are: OpEd pieces. Opinions. Editorials.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The articles were heavily biased and light on facts. Let's call 'em what they are: OpEd pieces. Opinions. Editorials.

Call them whatever you like.

 

[MIGrandma]

The articles were heavily biased and light on facts. Let's call 'em what they are: OpEd pieces. Opinions. Editorials.

I feel exactly the same way about those articles. I also think there were way too many posted. One or two would have been enough.

And Pea-n-me: You said you don't know anyone who has an outdoor dog, and you've never seen a true outdoor working dog. Then I guess you've never known anyone who lives on a farm then, huh? Most farms around here have outdoor dogs, and many of them actually work on the farm herding sheep and cattle. In fact Border Collies are known for that.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I feel exactly the same way about those articles. I also think there were way too many posted. One or two would have been enough.

And Pea-n-me: You said you don't know anyone who has an outdoor dog, and you've never seen a true outdoor working dog. Then I guess you've never known anyone who lives on a farm then, huh? Most farms around here have outdoor dogs, and many of them actually work on the farm herding sheep and cattle. In fact Border Collies are known for that.

No, I don't, actually. I grew up in the city and live in the suburbs now.

It doesn't change anything I've said here.

Feel free to skip over the articles that you don't care to read.

 

[MrsPete]

The question was asked why the articles were biased. I said because they were the only articles available; that people who work with neglect cases take them to heart, naturally, and write articles like those in their efforts to educate the public. (I'd love to think they see lots of good things, but from what I can tell, it isn't the case - especially in a kill shelter.)

Then you admit that you're posting articles written by people who are used to seeing dogs at their worst, people who have seen heartwrenching injuries, abuse, and abandonment situations. That would color one's picture of dog ownership.

These people aren't working with responsible dog owners, people who keep their dogs outside, but who provide those dogs with the necessities of life. I'd be more inclined to take the word of a vet or a vet tech, someone who works with a variety of animals who are cared for -- not those who have been abandoned.

This is like taking a teacher or social worker who works with kids in the inner city, a person who deals with gang kids, drug abuse, genuine poverty, broken homes at their worst, neighborhoods where it's not safe to walk to school . . . and asking that person to write an article on the state of childhood in America. The writer may tell the truth about what he sees, but no matter how deplorable the situations, they aren't representative of the whole country.

 

[MrsPete]

And Pea-n-me: You said you don't know anyone who has an outdoor dog, and you've never seen a true outdoor working dog. Then I guess you've never known anyone who lives on a farm then, huh? Most farms around here have outdoor dogs, and many of them actually work on the farm herding sheep and cattle. In fact Border Collies are known for that.

I'll say it again: I grew up on a farm, and the HAPPIEST DOGS I've ever seen -- happier than my dog, and she has a pretty comfortable life (except that she has some serious aging issues, and I can't do a thing about that) -- are working farm dogs. Those dogs get genuine joy from herding things. Doesn't even matter what they herd. They'll herd one toddler.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Then you admit that you're posting articles written by people who are used to seeing dogs at their worst, people who have seen heartwrenching injuries, abuse, and abandonment situations. That would color one's picture of dog ownership.

These people aren't working with responsible dog owners, people who keep their dogs outside, but who provide those dogs with the necessities of life. I'd be more inclined to take the word of a vet or a vet tech, someone who works with a variety of animals who are cared for -- not those who have been abandoned.

This is like taking a teacher or social worker who works with kids in the inner city, a person who deals with gang kids, drug abuse, genuine poverty, broken homes at their worst, neighborhoods where it's not safe to walk to school . . . and asking that person to write an article on the state of childhood in America. The writer may tell the truth about what he sees, but no matter how deplorable the situations, they aren't representative of the whole country.

We've had a Vet Tech respond here, and she said the same thing as the writers said.

 

[Jennasis]

Just wanted to remind everyone that the OP has said in previous threads that they are planning on TWO horses. One actual horse for the kids to ride plus a miniature horse...on one acre...and a house...and a barn...and a pool.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'll say it again: I grew up on a farm, and the HAPPIEST DOGS I've ever seen -- happier than my dog, and she has a pretty comfortable life (except that she has some serious aging issues, and I can't do a thing about that) -- are working farm dogs. Those dogs get genuine joy from herding things. Doesn't even matter what they herd. They'll herd one toddler.

Nothing would make me happier than seeing a well cared for working dog in action on a farm. I would love it.

All this, however, is somewhat beside the point. What you're talking about is not what the OP is talking about - at all.

 

[MIGrandma]

No, I don't, actually. I grew up in the city and live in the suburbs now.

Then if you've never seen a farm dog, living outside, on a farm, how can you judge? I've seen both. My Mom's dog was an indoor dog (toy fox terrier) and he had a long, happy life indoors. DH and I have an outdoor dog (chocolate lab) and she has a good, happy life and even though she spends much of her time outdoors she still gets a lot of attention and love and of course, good care. I just don't understand how you can be so adamant in saying it's wrong for a dog to live outdoors when you've never even seen it.

It doesn't change anything I've said here.

Feel free to skip over the articles that you don't care to read.

I did. There were just too many, all saying the same thing.

 

[disneystacy]

I'll say it again: I grew up on a farm, and the HAPPIEST DOGS I've ever seen -- happier than my dog, and she has a pretty comfortable life (except that she has some serious aging issues, and I can't do a thing about that) -- are working farm dogs. Those dogs get genuine joy from herding things. Doesn't even matter what they herd. They'll herd one toddler.

I truly believe that you have seen the happiest dogs you have ever seen who are working dogs on a farm. I am sure they are well taken care of.

BUT, we are not talking about dogs who are going to live on a farm, who are trained to work on a farm or grew up on a farm. WE are talking about taking 2dogs out of the pound so that they can live outdoors on only a acre of land and be expected with no formal training to: protect the property, not bark incessantly, get along with each other(thats a biggie), not bother or attack people or the owners little dog and I'm sure a long list of things the op didn't mention.
UNREALISTIC plain and simple.
The op has failed to mention what will happen if these dogs don't perform the tasks she needs. She has also stated that her small dog (indoors I might add) hates other dogs.
I would like to know what plan B is?

 

[disneystacy]

Nothing would make me happier than seeing a well cared for working dog in action on a farm. I would love it.

All this, however, is somewhat beside the point. What you're talking about is not what the OP is talking about - at all.

Exactly what I said.