Essential/Nonessential vs. Safe/Not safe

[Colleen27]

Exactly, another month of being shut down here is going to be devastating to alot of people.
NYC and the surrounding counties may be a hot spot but we are a huge state with some counties that don't even have 50 cases. Those people out there are being forced to stay shut down. These are rural areas with many small business owners that aren't going to be able to survive this much longer.

It is the same here. We still have counties with no cases at all, but they're shut down same as the counties with thousands. And their hospitals are teetering on the brink of going under because of lack of patients, which will be devastating if/when the virus does begin to spread in those parts of the state.

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-h...us-hospitals-gush-money-and-workers-lose-jobs

 

[Farro]

I really wish people would stop saying they are locked down. You aren't. You are able to leave your house, a lot of people are still working outside the home, drive your car, play in your yard, go for walks, etc.

I’ve been out 4 times in about 4 weeks and each time I’ve noticed the amount of people out and about is equal to or more than before stay at home orders have been in place.

For me at least, it's not being stuck in the house, or not seeing family (which I miss, greatly) that is what is the most concerning. It's the unwillingness to start to ease restrictions just to let people go back to work! Tell people to wear masks on the CTA, say do staggered hrs, whatever, just let people go to work.
Hospitals need to start elective surgeries.

Of course it won't be the same in every state, every city. But the problem is we all seem to be following basically the same restrictions no matter how many or few cases there are in a particular location.

Wisconsin just ordered all non-essential workers to stay home, businesses stay closed until after Memorial Day and now that Priztker said Illinois is working with surrounding states on a reopening plan, he most likely will do the same.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm frankly ignoring China because I don't think anything they've done is instructive - either it can't be done here (welding people into their homes, shutting down domestic travel) or is of dubious veracity (case counts that don't include asymptomatic positives). But Germany is taking steps to reopen, Italy is taking steps to reopen, Japan did some reopening and is now into a second-wave lockdown phase. And Germany and Japan both controlled the initial wave far better than we have, so they very likely have higher vulnerability to second and subsequent surges of infection than we will.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that I believe China's numbers. I'm the weirdo who was complaining here about China's lies back in January. Simply because we don't agree with China's tactics or methods I do think there is value in paying attention to what happens as they are taking steps to reentry.

Italy was also ahead of the US as far as when they were hit by the crushing weight of the virus. They're only now taking steps to reopen. I didn't say the US should remain locked down indefinitely. I said there's no reason to assume we're better positioned to reopen in a quicker timeframe than other countries who've gone through this. Japan's struggles are interesting because it also points to some things we might want to pay attention to -- the sheer population density and the fact that they have an overall older population. That may present lessons for our large cities and ways in which we have pockets of vulnerable populations. We're seeing something like that here in relation to how hard the virus has hit the African American population in areas like Detroit among others. America also has a greater incidence of obesity and related health problems than Japan does.

 

[sam_gordon]

Wisconsin just ordered all non-essential workers to stay home, businesses stay closed until after Memorial Day and now that Priztker said Illinois is working with surrounding states on a reopening plan, he most likely will do the same.

Kentucky and Ohio had started discussions about coordinated openingsand during an interview today, the Kentucky Governor said they're expanding that to include Indiana, Illinois, and Minnesota (I think). I don't remember him saying anything about Wisconsin.

 

[Searc]

Wisconsin just ordered all non-essential workers to stay home, businesses stay closed until after Memorial Day and now that Priztker said Illinois is working with surrounding states on a reopening plan, he most likely will do the same.

You may want to re-read what WI is doing. That is not accurate, at all.

 

[Searc]

Kentucky and Ohio had started discussions about coordinated openingsand during an interview today, the Kentucky Governor said they're expanding that to include Indiana, Illinois, and Minnesota (I think). I don't remember him saying anything about Wisconsin.

Yes, it includes WI.

 

[pigletliz]

It’s all become very political and it’s an election year.....one side wants us to become like so many other countries and one side wants to maintain what our country was founded on....gonna leave it at that.

Seriously?

 

[Farro]

You may want to re-read what WI is doing. That is not accurate, at all.

I just read again - Gov. Tony Evers on Thursday extended Wisconsin's stay-at-home order that was originally slated to expire next week for another month, keeping non-essential businesses closed until May 26 to slow the spread of the coronavirus.

Is that not right?

 

[Colleen27]

I'm not suggesting for a minute that I believe China's numbers. I'm the weirdo who was complaining here about China's lies back in January. Simply because we don't agree with China's tactics or methods I do think there is value in paying attention to what happens as they are taking steps to reentry.

Italy was also ahead of the US as far as when they were hit by the crushing weight of the virus. They're only now taking steps to reopen. I didn't say the US should remain locked down indefinitely. I said there's no reason to assume we're better positioned to reopen in a quicker timeframe than other countries who've gone through this. Japan's struggles are interesting because it also points to some things we might want to pay attention to -- the sheer population density and the fact that they have an overall older population. That may present lessons for our large cities and ways in which we have pockets of vulnerable populations. We're seeing something like that here in relation to how hard the virus has hit the African American population in areas like Detroit among others. America also has a greater incidence of obesity and related health problems than Japan does.

I don't think we're really talking about reopening quicker than those other countries, though. Italy was about two weeks ahead of us on lockdowns (3/9 there, on or before 3/23 here for most of the states with significant numbers of cases), and they're starting to reopen now. If we followed suit, we'd be talking about the end of May - which I think is the timeframe most of us are talking about, since most states have existing lockdown orders in place at least that long. For Michigan, to start reopening at the end of this extension of the governor's order would be an almost exact echo of the Italian timeline.

Japan's data has been interesting because I would have expected population density and age to make the virus far more serious there than it has been so far, which absolutely points to race, obesity and other social/cultural differences as the reason it has been so bad here. But their situation is clearly trending in the wrong direction and Abe seems reluctant to issue a general lockdown, though I hear some prefectural goverments have issued their own orders. Their universal mask distribution idea is interesting, though. I wonder if we'd get better cooperation with public mask-wearing if we did something similar (they're distributing cloth masks, not medical-grade).

 

[b2k1121]

For me at least, it's not being stuck in the house, or not seeing family (which I miss, greatly) that is what is the most concerning. It's the unwillingness to start to ease restrictions just to let people go back to work! Tell people to wear masks on the CTA, say do staggered hrs, whatever, just let people go to work.
Hospitals need to start elective surgeries.

Of course it won't be the same in every state, every city. But the problem is we all seem to be following basically the same restrictions no matter how many or few cases there are in a particular location.

Wisconsin just ordered all non-essential workers to stay home, businesses stay closed until after Memorial Day and now that Priztker said Illinois is working with surrounding states on a reopening plan, he most likely will do the same.

This isn't exactly right. He extended the stay at home order through May 26 but that included allowing golf courses to open and non-essential businesses to start operating in a limited fashion. This would indicate some progress and loosening of restrictions.

 

[Farro]

This isn't exactly right. He extended the stay at home order through May 26 but that included allowing golf courses to open and non-essential businesses to start operating in a limited fashion. This would indicate some progress and loosening of restrictions.

I found this? I mean, yes, it's something...

Businesses and activities ramping up service and operations:

• Public libraries: Public libraries may now provide curb-side pick-up of books and other library materials.
• Golf Courses: Golf courses may open again, with restrictions including scheduling and paying for tee times online or by phone only. Clubhouses and pro shops must remain closed.
• Non-essential Businesses: Non-essential businesses will now be able to do more things as Minimum Basic Operations, including deliveries, mailings, and curb-side pick-up. Non-essential businesses must notify workers of whether they are necessary for the Minimum Basic Operations.
• Arts and Crafts Stores: Arts and craft stores may offer expanded curb-side pick-up of materials necessary to make face masks or other personal protective equipment (PPE).
• Aesthetic or Optional Exterior Work: Aesthetic or optional exterior law care or construction is now allowed under the extended order, so long as it can be done by one person.

 

[kymom99]

There has been lots of "news' reports on it.

I just want my day to day activities back, kids activities, bible study, trips to the zoo and so on, but I don't know how any of it is going to work, especially for my kids activities because keeping 6ft apart isnt possible.

The camp where my son volunteers posted that they are planning an abbreviated camp experience. Looking to go from one week to 3 days sometime after July 1. It is not set in stone and depends on how things progress but I find it a good sign that they feel they can still offer something. This is 4h so it’s a government agency.

 

[kymom99]

Kentucky and Ohio had started discussions about coordinated openingsand during an interview today, the Kentucky Governor said they're expanding that to include Indiana, Illinois, and Minnesota (I think). I don't remember him saying anything about Wisconsin.

Where did beshear do an interview today? I’d like to watch it. His address is starting right now

 

[cabanafrau]

I don't think we're really talking about reopening quicker than those other countries, though. Italy was about two weeks ahead of us on lockdowns (3/9 there, on or before 3/23 here for most of the states with significant numbers of cases), and they're starting to reopen now. If we followed suit, we'd be talking about the end of May - which I think is the timeframe most of us are talking about, since most states have existing lockdown orders in place at least that long. For Michigan, to start reopening at the end of this extension of the governor's order would be an almost exact echo of the Italian timeline.

Japan's data has been interesting because I would have expected population density and age to make the virus far more serious there than it has been so far, which absolutely points to race, obesity and other social/cultural differences as the reason it has been so bad here. But their situation is clearly trending in the wrong direction and Abe seems reluctant to issue a general lockdown, though I hear some prefectural goverments have issued their own orders. Their universal mask distribution idea is interesting, though. I wonder if we'd get better cooperation with public mask-wearing if we did something similar (they're distributing cloth masks, not medical-grade).

I don't think it's fair to misrepresent what I actually said. The comments I was responding to were directly speaking to "rip the bandaid off" and there not being a difference in result if we waited to open versus going ahead and opening because we can't stay shutdown forever anyway. I asked why they thought the US was specially able to reopen so much more quickly than other countries that have struggled with the virus.

To be fair, they didn't suggest simply tripping the switch and resuming normal patterns of living we were all used to back in February either. I merely said it took other countries a bit longer to reach the point to take those steps, so it's reasonable to think we'd be somewhat similar.

 

[sam_gordon]

Where did beshear do an interview today? I’d like to watch it. His address is starting right now

He did an interview with WLEX in Lexington. They're actually airing part of that of that instead of his briefing. https://lex18.com/ for the website (I'm sure they'll post clips of the interview if not the full thing) https://lex18.com/live for their newscast.

 

[kymom99]

He did an interview with WLEX in Lexington. They're actually airing part of that of that instead of his briefing. https://lex18.com/ for the website (I'm sure they'll post clips of the interview if not the full thing) https://lex18.com/live for their newscast.

I’ll have to look for it. So far tonight’s address is not being interrupted by protesters

 

[Searc]

I just read again - Gov. Tony Evers on Thursday extended Wisconsin's stay-at-home order that was originally slated to expire next week for another month, keeping non-essential businesses closed until May 26 to slow the spread of the coronavirus.

Is that not right?

No, there are changes, starting April 24th, to allow some business to start opening. He has said the order can be superseded at any time if conditions warrant further loosening.

 

[pryncess527]

Quite a few colleges are already talking about being online only for the Fall.

and, the unimaginable for me, I think there is a real chance college football won’t happen in 2020.

 

[TLSnell1981]

22,000,000

Quite a few colleges are already talking about being online only for the Fall.

and, the unimaginable for me, I think there is a real chance college football won’t happen in 2020.

Meanwhile German schools will begin to reopen May 4th.

 

[ronandannette]

It seems like something will need to change fairly soon. I saw a number of news reports this afternoon about protests taking place in several states. More and more people abandoning restrictions won't be far behind.