Essential/Nonessential vs. Safe/Not safe

[siren0119]

I should say I'm not all for opening just like that it's not a light switch to me. I am quite concerned with the ideology of closures til the virus is gone for this wave we're in now especially if it's seasonal and we experience the virus habitually.

I agree with you - especially given that (to your point) there's a likelihood that this will become a seasonal occurrance. Closing until it's gone would mean being forever closed because it won't be "gone"....and maybe I didn't properly express what's in my head (long day of working from home plus trying to manage the virtual learning of a 5th and 7th grader who marginally understand the concept of sitting still lol). My interest lies in making sure that our medical resources are able to manage the influx of patients - that's really all that "peak" means anyway. I fully expect there will have to be phased reopening, so that they can monitor medical resource use and make sure we aren't putting our hospital facilities in a worse predicament than they are already working with. There will come a point when the hospitals can experience a bit more "business as usual" and handle the incoming cases along with their normal patient load. I am hopeful that happens in tandem with a more comprehensive treatment plan for the virus, and eventually a vaccine that will reduce the patient load to only the most severe cases because we'll be better equipped to manage what's coming in.

With so many of my friends and family on the medical front lines of this, I worry that the collective restlessness of the general public is going to lead to them working themselves to death rather than just to exhaustion trying to keep up if we jump the gun on reopening.

 

[jlwhitney]

Other countries that have been ahead of the US as far as when the virus began ravaging the population haven't moved any quicker than we have to reopening, why do you assume it's correct for the US to abandon a strategy we went into knowing it was a sacrifice the moment it looks like we're reaching pikes and plateaus? Do you think the Chinese don't want to get their economy firing on as many cylinders as they can, full speed ahead? They're only beginning to make moves in that direction. A lot was sacrificed for this strategy, I'd hate to see it flushed down the drain and completely wasted because we all are worried and impatient.

You can't compare us to a communist run country as China is.

 

[Searc]

You can't compare us to a communist run country as China is.

You had to pick the ONE country who is most un-like us, didn't you? Spain, South Korea, Italy, France, the UK, etc

 

[Snowysmom]

People keep repeating this but I have not seen any official saying this? Who is saying 'stay home until there is a vaccine'?

I saw the NJ governor say this on TV last night. He was asked why the change in policy and he really didn't have a coherent answer. I don't live in NJ but my governor is part of a pact with NJ and other states and this makes me very upset. We did what we were supposed to now they need to do what they promised. It is time to restart everything.

 

[jlwhitney]

You had to pick the ONE country who is most un-like us, didn't you? Spain, South Korea, Italy, France, the UK, etc

The person I quoted directly referenced China.

 

[Hikergirl]

NY has started to flatten the curve but our Pause order has been extended to May 15, and we have to wear masks when out in public. Another month. Great.

 

[cabanafrau]

You can't compare us to a communist run country as China is.

They took more authoritarian approaches to their lockdowns, including welding doors shut in some instances. Thankfully that wouldn't apply here.

Communist or not, they have a considerable economy, one they are incredibly interested in getting up and running again. On that scale there definitely is a valid comparison to be made.

 

[Searc]

I saw the NJ governor say this on TV last night. He was asked why the change in policy and he really didn't have a coherent answer. I don't live in NJ but my governor is part of a pact with NJ and other states and this makes me very upset. We did what we were supposed to now they need to do what they promised. It is time to restart everything.

I'm glad my Governor is doing this in a smart way, by reopening things slowly and then scaling up. Slow and steady, with science and experts across the board to guide him.

 

[Minniesgal]

The more businesses you allow to open the bigger the supply chain you need the more human contact there is. It’s not always specifically about the activity taking place but also the type and amount of supplies it needs

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Other countries that have been ahead of the US as far as when the virus began ravaging the population haven't moved any quicker than we have to reopening, why do you assume it's correct for the US to abandon a strategy we went into knowing it was a sacrifice the moment it looks like we're reaching pikes and plateaus? Do you think the Chinese don't want to get their economy firing on as many cylinders as they can, full speed ahead? They're only beginning to make moves in that direction. A lot was sacrificed for this strategy, I'd hate to see it flushed down the drain and completely wasted because we all are worried and impatient.

Areas that aren’t hotspots are going to start opening up soon. I’m not saying let’s go full on crazy and start going to concerts and sporting events, but if hospitals in that area aren’t overwhelmed, and actually so slow that people are being laid off, I personally think it’s a good idea to start opening up. People need to make money. Unemployment in some states will run out soon.

I’m in NJ. I’m not in a hot spot. The hospital I work at is cutting hours and laying people off. It’s a ghost town here. We are locked down until who knows when.

 

[Colleen27]

Other countries that have been ahead of the US as far as when the virus began ravaging the population haven't moved any quicker than we have to reopening, why do you assume it's correct for the US to abandon a strategy we went into knowing it was a sacrifice the moment it looks like we're reaching pikes and plateaus? Do you think the Chinese don't want to get their economy firing on as many cylinders as they can, full speed ahead? They're only beginning to make moves in that direction. A lot was sacrificed for this strategy, I'd hate to see it flushed down the drain and completely wasted because we all are worried and impatient.

I'm frankly ignoring China because I don't think anything they've done is instructive - either it can't be done here (welding people into their homes, shutting down domestic travel) or is of dubious veracity (case counts that don't include asymptomatic positives). But Germany is taking steps to reopen, Italy is taking steps to reopen, Japan did some reopening and is now into a second-wave lockdown phase. And Germany and Japan both controlled the initial wave far better than we have, so they very likely have higher vulnerability to second and subsequent surges of infection than we will.

 

[Searc]

I really wish people would stop saying they are locked down. You aren't. You are able to leave your house, a lot of people are still working outside the home, drive your car, play in your yard, go for walks, etc.

 

[b2k1121]

No one is saying it in so many words. If they did, I suspect a lot more people would just decide to start ignoring the orders rather than face the prospect of living this way for a couple of years. But the shifting strategy - no more talk about expanding hospital capacity or increasing testing, warnings to schools to prepare to continue online in the fall, tightening restrictions even when new cases are declining - all points that way. I suppose you could look at Newsom's standards for reopening California, which include such impossibilities as schools not being able to reopen before a vaccine unless they can maintain social distancing, as evidence that we're moving toward reopening... but it is an impossible standard (can you imagine trying to enforce social distancing recess or hiring enough teachers and building enough portables for 6' spacing in the classroom?! or college dorms trying to establish social distancing plans for bathrooms that serve a whole floor?!) and little more than a round-about way of saying there will be no school until there is a vaccine.

In other words, no one is actually saying it. It’s convenient to be able to argue against an argument that isn’t being made. Those standards need to be in place for schools, whether they are actually enforced is another question. The governor isn’t going to say ‘school is open and it’s a free for all!’ they need to provide some type of guidelines before they can open.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I really wish people would stop saying they are locked down. You aren't. You are able to leave your house, a lot of people are still working outside the home, drive your car, play in your yard, go for walks, etc.

my bad. We are shut down in my state. Businesses closed and high numbers of unemployment. I dont want my state to open up because I want to go to a bar and hang with my friends (I mean I do but that’s not my reasoning) it’s more because people aren’t working, unemployment is running out, etc.

 

[NotUrsula]

No one is saying it in so many words. If they did, I suspect a lot more people would just decide to start ignoring the orders rather than face the prospect of living this way for a couple of years. But the shifting strategy - no more talk about expanding hospital capacity or increasing testing, warnings to schools to prepare to continue online in the fall, tightening restrictions even when new cases are declining - all points that way. I suppose you could look at Newsom's standards for reopening California, which include such impossibilities as schools not being able to reopen before a vaccine unless they can maintain social distancing, as evidence that we're moving toward reopening... but it is an impossible standard (can you imagine trying to enforce social distancing recess or hiring enough teachers and building enough portables for 6' spacing in the classroom?! or college dorms trying to establish social distancing plans for bathrooms that serve a whole floor?!) and little more than a round-about way of saying there will be no school until there is a vaccine.

Those of us who are actual Baby Boomers may remember a time when schools were so overcrowded that running them on multiple shifts was common. The school day was shortened to 4 hours with no long breaks, and there were 2 shifts, with teachers staying for both. I imagine that a lot of districts may be digging those old operating plans out of the archives and combining multi-shift instruction with e-learning in order to space students out physically if necessary.

I know that my own workplace is going to be moving to 24/7 shift operations for awhile to keep us spread out while in the building (it is NOT a manufacturing line operation). I think that, especially if schools remain closed for quite a while or adapt multiple shifts, that that will be much more widespread, in order to allow families to have parents stagger their work times to keep the children supervised at home.

 

[b2k1121]

I saw the NJ governor say this on TV last night. He was asked why the change in policy and he really didn't have a coherent answer. I don't live in NJ but my governor is part of a pact with NJ and other states and this makes me very upset. We did what we were supposed to now they need to do what they promised. It is time to restart everything.

Can you find the quote for me? I can’t find it anywhere.

 

[b2k1121]

I really wish people would stop saying they are locked down. You aren't. You are able to leave your house, a lot of people are still working outside the home, drive your car, play in your yard, go for walks, etc.

I’ve been out 4 times in about 4 weeks and each time I’ve noticed the amount of people out and about is equal to or more than before stay at home orders have been in place.

 

[Hikergirl]

my bad. We are shut down in my state. Businesses closed and high numbers of unemployment. I dont want my state to open up because I want to go to a bar and hang with my friends (I mean I do but that’s not my reasoning) it’s more because people aren’t working, unemployment is running out, etc.

Exactly, another month of being shut down here is going to be devastating to alot of people.
NYC and the surrounding counties may be a hot spot but we are a huge state with some counties that don't even have 50 cases. Those people out there are being forced to stay shut down. These are rural areas with many small business owners that aren't going to be able to survive this much longer.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Those of us who are actual Baby Boomers may remember a time when schools were so overcrowded that running them on multiple shifts was common. The school day was shortened to 4 hours with no long breaks, and there were 2 shifts, with teachers staying for both. I imagine that a lot of districts may be digging those old operating plans out of the archives and combining multi-shift instruction with e-learning in order to space students out physically if necessary.

Sorta along those lines but it's a common enough process here that if the schools become overcrowded the temporary solution of having trailers brought on school grounds to house certain students.

In recent years that's been mostly fixed as school districts sought out bonds, property taxes were raised, etc to get new schools built and certain existing ones remodeled. Thank the lord that happened mostly prior to this as they expect millions in lost property tax revenue which directly impacts the schools (55% of my property tax goes straight to my school district assigned to my property).

I know my mother-in-law spoke about split days though.

When I was in elementary school it was a weird set up don't really know how it worked lol but I was in split grades. When I was in 2nd grade I was in a classroom with 1 teacher who taught 2nd and 3rd graders at the same time, when I was in 3rd grade same story but it was 3rd and 4th graders with 1 teacher. There were 2 teachers per grade. In 5th grade and 6th grade I had my own class without it being split.

 

[cabanafrau]

Areas that aren’t hotspots are going to start opening up soon. I’m not saying let’s go full on crazy and start going to concerts and sporting events, but if hospitals in that area aren’t overwhelmed, and actually so slow that people are being laid off, I personally think it’s a good idea to start opening up. People need to make money. Unemployment in some states will run out soon.

I’m in NJ. I’m not in a hot spot. The hospital I work at is cutting hours and laying people off. It’s a ghost town here. We are locked down until who knows when.

I'm not eager to see people locked down and our economy tanking either. I live in metro Detroit. We've had quite the number of cases here. Even where our hospitals are quite full hospital workers are being furloughed, including those medical workers who directly deal with patient care.

My husband's job was scheduled to end before all of this blew up and has been put on hold temporarily because his company does not want to face the public backlash of putting people out of work during this mess. He was literally in the car on the way to a job interview last month when he was called and told they were not allowing visitors into their facilities due to concerns about the virus. I get that the economic concerns are serious. My job is not at normal levels during this and I've been told that they're working on a plan of how to resume court operations next month with staff only, everyone else remote. My job will not be resuming in person operation for the foreseeable future, which will mean my workload will be uneven and probably backbreaking when they move to clear the backlog that will have to come.

My guess is that MI will make some small steps to allow a few things to open beginning May 1, but it will be a drop in the bucket.