EPCOT - renovations??....in the news......

[clsteve]

The third track for Toy Story is scheduled to take 2 years, and they didn't even need to build the warehouse.

...Or any ride development, filming, etc.

I agree. Comparing a 4 dimensional ride in a warehouse that's based on another (Spidey) to an off the shelf, circa last century 'coaster surrounded by faux rock work, doesn't make much sense in context of time-to-build.

Both companies are more than competent. Each can complete major projects within any timeframe they desire - bound only by physics, spacial logistics and regulation. To argue that one goes more slowly due to a "higher adherence to quality and attention to detail" is a pre-2009 argument without legs.

The only constraining factor is self induced - cost. Especially how it relates to capex levels within fiscal years.

Heck, I saw the difference in Dec. 2012 when we were there for the softs of NFL while the 7DMT was in construction followed a year later when DA was in construction.

We never observed more than a handfull of workers/engineers working on 7DMT over an 8 day period in perfect December weather. Many observed the same thing in Dis Threads once we returned.

At US? Literally hundreds of construction workers and engineers working at all hours on DA - just the facade. God knows how many behind it. Plus dozens of obviously high levels working the HE foot by foot down the track.

The funny thing is - Disney set the time-to-build bar with Epcot. My gracious, has there ever been such a disparate, huge, and complicated build (just for entertainment purposes) accomplished so well in such a short time?

Take the design time out of it, THAT was a major, bar setting, Engineering Feat. Especially when you look at the multi-levels of coordination - with sponsoring companies, with countries. Heck, all the way down to recruiting and hiring CM's from all of the countries!

Bottom line - Disney could get the 3rd TSMM track done by this Summer if they'd wanted to - this holiday season for the extra Soarin' theater, starting from groundbreak. Again, if they wanted to.....

 

[DDLand]

The third track for Toy Story is scheduled to take 2 years, and they didn't even need to build the warehouse.

Yep. It's not a very high priority.

For example, in a little more time then they're taking on the TSMM upgrades Disney constructed the all new show buildings, facade, and implemented technologies for Ratatouille in France. If we want to compare two warehouse based attractions I think that would be more suitable. Universal was significantly faster, but they were creating a clone of an existing attraction. Disney was breaking new ground. A massive difference.

I just don't want two ideas to slip into the commentary here:
1) Attractions like Minions, Transformers, and Ratatouille are anywhere close to the complexity of something like DA, Mine Trains, or Avatar. The pure art that was implemented 7DMT puts TSMM to shame. That doesn't mean that they're necessarily better attractions. Many would argue vehemently that they aren't. Just don't be surprised if a Mountain takes longer then a warehouse to build.
2) Disney is discernibly less ambitious then Universal or that Universal is willing to take greater risks then Disney. There's little evidence to support this assertion. Since 2009 Universal has built a sequel to a hugely popular original land (https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/events-tours/magic-kingdom/new-fantasyland/), cloned an attraction (http://behindthethrills.com/2011/05...ontinues-debuts-at-disneys-hollywood-studios/), and talked a successful movie franchise into doing a ride too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_Land). There's also been the new hotels (http://www.stitchkingdom.com/disney-art-animation-resort-may-31-18043/ and http://dvcnews.com/index.php/resort...s-at-disneys-grand-floridian-resort-announced) and upgrades to City Walk (http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2013/03/announcing-disney-springs-at-walt-disney-world-resort/). I'll readily say Disney's focus hasn't been on Orlando recently, but that seems to be changing. As Shanghai wraps up the money should start really coming. Especially in light of closures at Epcot, and DHS it would appear work is starting at both these properties over the next few years.

 

[DDLand]

...Or any ride development, filming, etc.

I agree. Comparing a 4 dimensional ride in a warehouse that's based on another (Spidey) to an off the shelf, circa last century 'coaster surrounded by faux rock work, doesn't make much sense in context of time-to-build.

Both companies are more than competent. Each can complete major projects within any timeframe they desire - bound only by physics, spacial logistics and regulation. To argue that one goes more slowly due to a "higher adherence to quality and attention to detail" is a pre-2009 argument without legs.

The only constraining factor is self induced - cost. Especially how it relates to capex levels within fiscal years.

Heck, I saw the difference in Dec. 2012 when we were there for the softs of NFL while the 7DMT was in construction followed a year later when DA was in construction.

We never observed more than a handfull of workers/engineers working on 7DMT over an 8 day period in perfect December weather. Many observed the same thing in Dis Threads once we returned.

At US? Literally hundreds of construction workers and engineers working at all hours on DA - just the facade. God knows how many behind it. Plus dozens of obviously high levels working the HE foot by foot down the track.

The funny thing is - Disney set the time-to-build bar with Epcot. My gracious, has there ever been such a disparate, huge, and complicated build (just for entertainment purposes) accomplished so well in such a short time?

Take the design time out of it, THAT was a major, bar setting, Engineering Feat. Especially when you look at the multi-levels of coordination - with sponsoring companies, with countries. Heck, all the way down to recruiting and hiring CM's from all of the countries!

Bottom line - Disney could get the 3rd TSMM track done by this Summer if they'd wanted to - this holiday season for the extra Soarin' theater, starting from groundbreak. Again, if they wanted to.....

You pretty much nailed all of this on the head.

Though as for Rockwork http://mobile.shanghaidaily.com/article.aspx?i=581247

What they do is impressive. If you watch the Creating Everest documentary it really opens your eyes to the challenge of that type of work. Construction is slowed to a standstill while they create their art.

Universal Singapore and Universal Hollywood had a transformers attraction that the Orlando one was modeled off of. The Orlando project was being done by people who had built the same attraction two other times. Speeds things up. Also they got avoid the several different outages that plagued the attraction at opening in Singapore too.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yet something is a little off with the yeti...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The "timelines" have gone from laughable...to insulting.

This makes avatar and the two year reassembly of the dumbo tent look like light speed in comparison...

 

[clsteve]

You pretty much nailed all of this on the head.

Though as for Rockwork http://mobile.shanghaidaily.com/article.aspx?i=581247

What they do is impressive. If you watch the Creating Everest documentary it really opens your eyes to the challenge of that type of work. Construction is slowed to a standstill while they create their art.

Universal Singapore and Universal Hollywood had a transformers attraction that the Orlando one was modeled off of. The Orlando project was being done by people who had built the same attraction two other times. Speeds things up. Also they got avoid the several different outages that plagued the attraction at opening in Singapore too.

What I observed was long before they started any faux rock artwork.

I just hope the same, meticulously created, in-house piece of propaganda I'm creating (based on that article) will show my level of effort and the lateness it caused for my tax submissions (since I'm a detail guy). Maybe it will be just the thing for the IRS to say "just keep doin' what you're doin'. We'll wait...."

 

[DDLand]

What I observed was long before they started any faux rock artwork.

I just hope the same, meticulously created, in-house piece of propaganda I'm creating (based on that article) will show my level of effort and the lateness it caused for my tax submissions (since I'm a detail guy). Maybe it will be just the thing for the IRS to say "just keep doin' what you're doin'. We'll wait...."

Show me the company who does it better then Disney. I'm hard pressed to think of a single one. If others were matching or exceeding Disney's work I'd be sympathetic. A warehouse is great. Just not on the same level as an intricately designed mountain.

Good luck with the IRS

 

[KYMickey]

Maybe Disney is using the same planners that did the planning for the rebuilding of the World Trade Center complex in NYC! It took 13 years to get the first building open, a transportation complex still is an open, etc. They certainly aren't exactly rushing to get things finished!

 

[rteetz]

Show me the company who does it better then Disney. I'm hard pressed to think of a single one. If others were matching or exceeding Disney's work I'd be sympathetic. A warehouse is great. Just not on the same level as an intricately designed mountain.

Good luck with the IRS

I don't find a soundstage much different than a warehouse.

 

[Mouse Ear]

I hear they are gonna tear it down and put the hat from the Studios in its place...

But really, I wonder if they would be planning on making this the "festival hub" building and plan on repurposing/building something new at the Wonders of Life pavilion.

In regards to the construction timelines, you have to look at the two parks. Disney is the All-American vacation. People will come from all over the world regardless of how long it took to build a roller coaster. Disney only gets a temporary boost from these events. Universal is trying to catch up to Disney as a destination resort. Their approach is to add iconic attractions as quickly as they can, and so far they've been doing a great job. Regardless of how well they're doing, it will take a loooong time before Universal becomes the kind of destination that WDW is. Bottom line, Disney doesn't build fast because, at least for now, they don't have to.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't find a soundstage much different than a warehouse.

What do you mean!?!?

They're exactly the same!?!? How can't you see the difference?

 

[DDLand]

I don't find a soundstage much different than a warehouse.

Yep. You talking about the TSMM stuff? Like I said they're obviously not in a rush with the 3rd track. Best comparison I could think of was the Ratatouille Ride over in WDS. In a little bit more then the same amount time they're taking to add the third track Disney built a warehouse, created a facade, and implemented ride technologies. This wasn't a clone like Transformers or the third track. This is a brand new ride from scratch. That's great. Still building this warehouse and ride was nowhere near the complexities of 7DMT. The pure craftsmanship that went into it was insane. (I'd argue a little overkill. I've seen too many a good budget blown on rock work instead of ride system) It certainly adds to the experience in a profound way.

Rockwork is one place Disney so clearly dominates the industry that no one's in the same league. You can't say that conclusively about very many aspects in theme parks. Like I said, show me the company that does better rock work then Disney.

 

[rteetz]

Yep. You talking about the TSMM stuff? Like I said they're obviously not in a rush with the 3rd track. Best comparison I could think of was the Ratatouille Ride over in WDS. In a little bit more then the same amount time they're taking to add the third track Disney built a warehouse, created a facade, and implemented ride technologies. This wasn't a clone like Transformers or the third track. This is a brand new ride from scratch. That's great. Still building this warehouse and ride was nowhere near the complexities of 7DMT. The pure craftsmanship that went into it was insane. (I'd argue a little overkill. I've seen too many a good budget blown on rock work instead of ride system) It certainly adds to the experience in a profound way.

Rockwork is one place Disney so clearly dominates the industry that no one's in the same league. You can't say that conclusively about very many aspects in theme parks. Like I said, show me the company that does better rock work then Disney.

But see thats the problem. Disney shouldn't take two years to build a track of an existing ride in an already built building. It should take a year maybe. I see more reason for taking longer on larger expansion projects than something like a third track.

 

[DDLand]

But see thats the problem. Disney shouldn't take two years to build a track of an existing ride in an already built building. It should take a year maybe. I see more reason for taking longer on larger expansion projects than something like a third track.

I've pondered why they did that too. I'm think that these types of refurb/enhancement projects are a harder sell then all new rides. If it ain't broken why fix it? Ensuring it's spread over several years and using cheaper contractors ensures that they save money. That's critical when getting these projects approved. Also there's likely little urgency to finish because they're hidden well and there's no hype. Also we have to take into account any downtime that Soarin and TSMM may experience during the pre launch phase. It's possible they could've had it done sooner but operations vetoed because it was during a busy time of the year. Losing either of those two rides would make a lot of people angry (cast and guest alike). Also I wonder if these expansions are a more local thing. Of course eventually Burbank has the final say, but Orlando may be taking some liberties with these two attractions upgrades being on the priority list. It's entirely possible that these upgrades are coming from a different (smaller) budget then the DHS/DAK/Epcot upgrades.

Still it seems to come down to effective cost management and little urgency. Frankly a low priority.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If Disney wanted to add on a third toy story ride track...they could do it in 9, 12, 15 months.

It's quite simple. You increase the investment or demand a tighter schedule. There is nothing physically prohibiting it.

They do it to dilute the investment while relentlessly pushing the price point.

I submit that the argument on this is over

 

[mcjaco]

But there are still people that visit Innoventions. what I find disturbing is Disney's propensity to shut down attractions and leave it. In Epcot there's already the Odessy and wonder of Life pavilion that have remained vacant for years. Epcot really can't afford to lose attractions/ exibits, IMO, unless they aim to renovate and reopen immediately. At WDW, I haven't seen any evidence to support the idea that they are interested in improving the guest experience.

West Innoventions is one of the least visited "pavilions" in EPCOT. It makes sense. East Innoventions has the more visited attractions.

As for Odyssey, there's so many eating options now, then there were when EPCOT opened. I don't like it sitting vacant, but it makes fiscal sense if there wasn't enough customers to keep it open.

We've had some of this discussion in another thread, but Disney has been (for the most part) upgrading what is already there and shuttering rides and attractions. They really haven't offered much of anything new for the past year or two, and even that is only at MK. There isn't much new at DHS, EPCOT or AK. At least AK has something coming in a few years, but even that is hard to get excited about now.

Universal's approach has been add something every year, until the past four when it has exploded with Harry Potter. That being said, keep in mind that with all of the construction and money, US only added 2-3 rides (depending on your perspective) with all of the Harry Potter stuff. Some of that was just a new facade for existing things (Dueling Dragons for example).

Totally inaccurate. Universal stood pat for years. YEARS. They added Simpsons (which stinks, and was just a reimaging of a previous ride), then the Rock...whatever coaster. It wasn't until Potter World that the boom started.


I think we're on the precipice of a very large expansion/rebuild of EPCOT and DHS very soon. They've sat in limbo too long.

 

[Cormoran]

I think we're on the precipice of a very large expansion/rebuild of EPCOT and DHS very soon. They've sat in limbo too long.

When will this massive rebuild happen? I see things closing and no firm announcements of any rebuilds in Epcot or DHS. When do you think this great expansion is going to happen?

 

[rteetz]

When will this massive rebuild happen? I see things closing and no firm announcements of any rebuilds in Epcot or DHS. When do you think this great expansion is going to happen?

It's going to be a while but DHS will happen before epcot does that's for sure

 

[lockedoutlogic]

When will this massive rebuild happen? I see things closing and no firm announcements of any rebuilds in Epcot or DHS. When do you think this great expansion is going to happen?

The only "evidence" of a rebuild is here say...

TOTS

 

[mcjaco]

DHS will certainly come sooner, but I believe (and this is only my internal voice), that EPCOT will soon get some love. It's about that time. We had the SSE redo, Nemo, and TT all in about five years.

Maybe not huge changes, but some plussing. I think the Normay/Arrendale is stage one of a greater plan.

And it's hearsay. And there was not mention of "evidence." Just someone that's watched Epcot since it's inception and build, and notices some trends.