Epcot, Norway, Frozen.. chime in on this.

Honestly I remember going to EPCOT as a child and after visit number 2 being over the whole WS experience. When I got older and appreciated different foods more it became a bit more fun and after I turned 21 well it became one of my favorite parts of our visits.

I do think that WS is very much an attraction for the older crowd and now that we are making trips with a 2 year old I keep thinking back to those trips as a kid when I hated leaving FW. At this point I honestly wouldn't mind if all of the countries had some kind of dark ride based on the stories from their countries.

I get both sides of the argument and 2 years ago might have been very adamant about not wanting it.
 
The Little Mermaid is almost identical to Nemo except for the characters and a few animatronics. There is nothing wrong with the ride itself. IMO, Disney built up the New Fantasyland as this big old deal and it was a let down. They've since added 7 Dwarfs Mine Train.
And mine train could've and should've been better than it is. Good ride but not great.
 
When I went to Disney the first time as an 13 year old Epcot was my favorite park and that included the World Showcase. I don't think they needed to replace a real country and culture with a manufactured one just for kids. I think the WS should concentrate on real culture and don't like that Frozen is replacing Norway but it isn't going to make me stomp my feet and exclaim I'm never going back again either. It is what it is.
 
If people just admitted they didn't like the Frozen attraction for personal reasons, that would be one thing. But the excuses some of you come up with to try and justify your dislike just make your whole argument look silly.

The world showcase is "supposed to be educational?" First, no. It is supposed to give people a glance at other cultures. There is a difference between giving a glance at other cultures and being educational. I would be extremely skeptical about "learning" much from the world showcase. You'll learn more about any of these particular countries on an episode of sesame street then you will going to the country's pavilion. Which brings me to my second point, the version of these countries presented is dated, sanitized, cherry picked, and in no way representational of the actual host country. Anyone here that thinks Japan can be summed up as one giant shop selling pop culture toys, clocks, and pearls is really missing out on what Japan really is. The Norway pavilion is/was one of the silliest of them all.

People have the audacity to talk about educational / real representations of countries when that entire pavilion was based around vikings, long houses, and trolls? Then Maelstrom itself was a fantasy boat ride through a Nordic style fairy tale. If ya liked it, then yay for you. But don't pretend for a second it was realistic and/or educational. Might as well have a Greek pavilion all about Mount Olympus and togas. Fun? Sure. Realistic representation of actual Greece? Pshhhhh.

I saw one post last month where the OP actually lamented that they take their kids to the world showcase because it is so much cheaper than actually traveling.... I mean. Wow. Their kids are going to grow up thinking Norway still has vikings, France is about 2 city blocks large and is primarily a pastry shop, and Mexico is all indoors.

The World Showcase is fun for what it is. A dated view of the world based on mid 20th century views condensed into easily digestible gift shops, movies, and slow boat rides. it is *not* a realistic representation of anything.

Now, am I saying that this automatically justifies pumping fantasy into every corner? No. I am simply saying that all these claims of the frozen ride attacking the "realism" or "educational" value of the world showcase are simply ludicrous.

Those of you acting as though Arendelle has absolutely nothing to do with Norway... well, your so intent on disliking it that you are ignoring basic google research.
  1. The name 'Arendelle' is based on the Norwegian town of Arendal, located in the county of Aust-Agder, to the southwest of the Norwegian capital, Oslo. However, the scenery of Arendelle is based primarily on Nærøyfjord in western Norway, as well as various buildings in Oslo, Bergen, and other Norwegian cities.
So the city is based on a real one, the scenery is based on on western norway, and the buildings, costumes, and mythology are all based on Norway as well.

Lets see, what did the Norway pavilion have before? A tree monster thing, trolls, Odin... What is it going to be now? A snow monster thing, trolls, an ice queen. Your telling me one subset of fantasy bull is markedly better than the second set of fantasy bull? Both are based on the countries mythology. Both are based on the country's past. But one is better because why? Because it was there first? Because it wasn't based on a movie that broke box office records? Because it didn't have a princess before and now it does? This is DISNEY FOLKS. D-I-S-N-E-Y. It's bloody bread and butter is princesses, and your *****ing because they finally got a princess for that part of the world and they are making use of her?

There are the folks who claim that this would upset Walt. Guess what. Epcot as it stands would likely upset him. I think he would love what it eventually became, but it obviously isn't the "prototype community of tomorrow" that he originally envisioned. It was never supposed to be a theme park kiddos (you guys are all fans, you know this). Hell, it wasn't even supposed to be a world showcase. So once you divorce your expectations of what Epcot was "supposed" to be, you have to look at what it is. It is an entertainment complex. Frozen entertains.

There are those who complain about the characters being in the pavilions. That is just downright silly. Disney is defined by it's characters, so to keep them out is to ignore what Disney is. Besides, a whole host of princesses were already camping out in Norway for breakfast and dinner every day. This argument holds no water.

And finally, the one everyone falls back in - it should have been built somewhere else. Are you an investor? If you had to choose between using existing infrastructure and saving well over a hundred million dollars while simultaneously having an opening date of just over a year versus spending an extra hundred million, building an entirely new show building, and extending the opening date another 2 years.. well, which one would you choose if it was YOUR money on the line. It makes business sense to do what they did. If it had cost extra to build a frozen ride there, if they had ended up shoehorning a new building into the pavilion, if it would have still taken 3-4 year to build it out - then sure, there would be a very strong argument for just taking all that construction and doing it somewhere else. But there is nowhere else on property that offered up an existing track, existing building, AND happened to be in an area ALREADY THEMED TO THE COUNTRY THE ENTIRE PROPERTY IS BASED ON. There is simply no valid argument to spending an extra 1-2 hundred million bucks and an extra 2 years building this ride somewhere else.

Ultimately, and this is important, I'm not saying that people don't have a right to be upset. I totally get having nostalgia for the old ride and being upset it is being removed. I get that change in a place that so many people have gone to for so many years can be difficult. I even understand the frustration over the fact that Epcot needs attention in so many other areas, so closing a ride to open a new one seems less productive than making use out of all that empty space currently in the park. Those, and many other stances, are all extremely valid responses.

But this attempted delineation of acting like Frozen Ever After doesn't fit because of "realism", or "meaning of epcot", or "what walt would have wanted", or "isn't even a real country" are just shallow excuses at worst and pissing in the wind at best.

It's happening. It's happened. It's done.

I can't tell someone not to be upset, nor is it my place to tell anyone not to be upset. But, can I suggest in a friendly manner that it's time to move on? If you don't like it, then be sure to sneer every time you pass it. But pulling a chicken little and acting as though the sky is falling "Disney is destroying the world showcase" is just dramatic ridiculousness. Reading some of these posts one would assume that Britain is being changed to Enchantia (Sofia the first), Mexico is turning into Tortuga (Pirates), and every other pavilion is slated to be converted as well. All because one ride got added to Norway.

A ride that is full of the same mythologies that the previous ride already had.

A ride that will serve to make thousands of little kids interested and excited about Norway (especially when they realize that Elsa is from a "real" country").

A ride that little kids will love, that will drive traffic to the park, and no babies will raped in the process - no matter how apocalyptic some of you may thing this is.
I don't like it and a long speech about what is just another opinion won't change that. I also won't quit talking about it as long as it's allowed in these forums. If you can't see that stuffing princesses and dumbing down the menu of an interesting restaurant and putting cartoon characters in a museum also contributed to this then there's no discussing it. This whole change is disrespectful to Norway and nothing you or anyone else says will change my mind about that.

However I have moved on in one way. I won't be passing by it ever again if I can help it so no sneering coming from me.
 
I just wish I could have been the guy that brought this proposal to Al Weiss knowing I'd have a huuuge pay day coming. As long as they keep the outside cart and/or the cafe in Norway (stocked w/ Carlsberg), then I'll be super content. Thank God there are 10 other countries.

I stil think there are going to be issues come F&W and F&G 2016/2017. I just don't see how you increase your interests on events focused primarily on drinking, and now put your eggs in a theme for children right smack dab in the middle of that party. Let's face it, the word Food may be in the title, but we all know why everyone goes to F&W and F&G.
You like Carlsberg? I never developed a taste for that. I have my doubts that the café will survive but hopefully I'm wrong.
 
As a fellow local I was not happy with this whole thing at all. WS was supposed to be educational, as was Future World. A full revamp of the front half of the park is what was needed. Put the Frozen crap somewhere else and take your time with it, the Frozen fangirls will still be there when you open it. Gut out Wonders of Life and Imagination, throw Inside Out in the former and the original Figment in the latter. Knock out Innoventions and update to current science education-type standards. Boom. Done.

Inside Out was already there it was called Cranium Command
 
Yes there is a connection no doubt. Frozen being the phenomenon it is deserved an e ticket dark ride in fantasyland or DHS. OLC in Tokyo is throwing 450-500 million at frozen for a mini land of sorts. Disney took the short cut and is putting 75 million into a short boat ride in Norway and then building a meet and greet building right next door. I don't think it would be so bad if it was just the ride and not the 13,000 square foot building next door. Disney could've also kept along with how world showcase is supposed to be and have the frozen characters tell guests about Norway. What's left that's actually Norwegian in Norway? The gift shop with the $300 winter coats?
Isn't Kringla still there?? Please say it is
 
I understand WDW capitalizing on Frozen, its a cash monger. It does not make me happy that they are doing all the Frozen stuff in Norway, as it was a great place for us to rest, relax and soak in the ambiance. But change is going to continue in all of WDW, and I have to get used too it or leave it behind. So I think I will just get used too it:tilt:
 
Pitiful
I was excited when I heard about the Nemo ride-BUST, excited when I read about The Little Mermaid, BUST, BUST and now this frozen crud? When Universal announces something new, it's new. This Disney "new" is getting old.

Well you should've had some expectation for mermaid because it debuted in DCA before MK. Based what's been released on the frozen ride they are supposedly making some high level animatronics for it despite it being the same layout as maelstrom.

Yep and Nemo/Living Seas was Disney reusing the footage from Nemo Submarines at DL, but without the lighting and background (and PITA submarines) to make it look right.

Honestly, Maelstrom was a disappointed to me for the year it first opened. They really harped on the trolls, waterfall, etc., in the advertising when it debuted and that's like 5% of the ride. The World Showcase has been stale for long time, 30+ years of the same shops, layouts, etc. Been there, done it.
 
I don't like it and a long speech about what is just another opinion won't change that. I also won't quit talking about it as long as it's allowed in these forums. If you can't see that stuffing princesses and dumbing down the menu of an interesting restaurant and putting cartoon characters in a museum also contributed to this then there's no discussing it. This whole change is disrespectful to Norway and nothing you or anyone else says will change my mind about that.

However I have moved on in one way. I won't be passing by it ever again if I can help it so no sneering coming from me.

This coming from the person who didn't realize Frozen was based on Norway in the first place.

You seem to be suggesting that Maelstrom was some sort of "respectful" representation of Norway. It was just as fantastic and far out there. It was not realistic. It was not based on what people still believe in. You don't seem to know much about the country at all for that matter, and yet your proclaiming what you have decided is "disrespectful". Funny. I don't see anyone from Norway claiming this.

And for the record, a majority of my post was not just "another opinion". You can try to chalk it up to that if you want, but the whole point of it was to list several FACTS that folks like you are purposfully blinding yourself to in order to try and justify their irrational dislike.

Fact: Frozen is based on Norway
Fact: Frozen and Maelstrom are both fantasy rides
Fact: Both draw upon Norway's culture and superstitions

I'm not out to change your mind. As I said in my post (you probably didn't get that far though), I get why some people are upset. But it doesn't change the fact you are, also as I said, pissing in the wind.

Feel free to bring it up every week or two on the forums. I'll be happy to post right after you to remind everyone how futile it is.
 
Last edited:
This coming from the person who didn't realize Frozen was based on Norway in the first place.

You seem to be suggesting that Maelstrom was some sort of "respectful" representation of Norway. It was just as fantastic and far out there. It was not realistic. It was not based on what people still believe in. You don't seem to know much about the country at all for that matter, and yet your proclaiming what you have decided is "disrespectful". Funny. I don't see anyone from Norway claiming this.

And for the record, a majority of my post was not just "another opinion". You can try to chalk it up to that if you want, but the whole point of it was to list several FACTS that folks like you are purposfully blinding yourself to in order to try and justify their irrational dislike.

Fact: Frozen is based on Norway
Fact: Frozen and Maelstrom are both fantasy rides
Fact: Both draw upon Norway's culture and superstitions

I'm not out to change your mind. As I said in my post (you probably didn't get that far though), I get why some people are upset. But it doesn't change the fact you are, also as I said, pissing in the wind.

Feel free to bring it up every week or two on the forums. I'll be happy to post right after you to remind everyone how futile it is.
Do you know a lot of people from Norway? You don't know if I do or even if I have some direct experience. But no matter because I don't intend to argue with you about this. And you won't be able to remind me of anything.

By the way, I do realize that Frozen was supposedly based on Norway. And if you squint hard enough and maybe look at in a Disneyfied way it might appear so. I just don't agree.
 
The difference between Maelstrom and what I anticipate the Frozen ride to be is that Maelstrom was exotic. It was fantasy without being a familiar Disney cartoon.

But that's not the problem. Being totally honest, Norway was a delightful hideaway, a place that one could visit to relax, get away from the screaming kids and crowds. I didn't ride Maelstrom because it was a great piece of entertainment, I rode it it because it allowed to sit, rest, cool off, get out of the sun, give my eyes a break, have a few smiles. It refreshed me.

I can't fault Disney for doing Frozen there. It's a sound business decision, and I expect it to be a successful ride. That doesn't mean I have to like the idea.
 





Latest posts




























GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE


Our Dreams Unlimited Travel Agents will assist you in booking the perfect Disney getaway, all at no extra cost to you. Get the most out of your vacation by letting us assist you with dining and park reservations, provide expert advice, answer any questions, and continuously search for discounts to ensure you get the best deal possible.

CLICK HERE


facebook twitter
Top