Epcot, AK and DHS have been slow all summer?

[pilferk]

Here's another thing to chew on:

We don't travel during the summer months (mostly because that's busy season for me at work), but I, too, have heard some of the anecdotal reports that it's getting less busy during the summer.

But I have personally noticed that the "low crowd" times I mentioned in my last post are getting significantly busier.

Whether it's hunting discounts, free dining, or simply a desire to avoid Florida in the summer..it seems like more people are traveling during the former "off" periods and evening out the travel patterns.

It'll be interesting to see how flat the park attendance figures are when they come out this year via the press reports. The only way we'll see huge changes is if there is an overall decline amongst the 4 parks AND if Disney sees occupancy levels WAY down..and I'd be surprised if we see that. But not SHOCKED to see it, like I would have been in years past.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Here's another thing to chew on:

We don't travel during the summer months (mostly because that's busy season for me at work), but I, too, have heard some of the anecdotal reports that it's getting less busy during the summer.

But I have personally noticed that the "low crowd" times I mentioned in my last post are getting significantly busier.

Whether it's hunting discounts, free dining, or simply a desire to avoid Florida in the summer..it seems like more people are traveling during the former "off" periods and evening out the travel patterns.

It'll be interesting to see how flat the park attendance figures are when they come out this year via the press reports. The only way we'll see huge changes is if there is an overall decline amongst the 4 parks AND if Disney sees occupancy levels WAY down..and I'd be surprised if we see that. But not SHOCKED to see it, like I would have been in years past.

Epcot has been essentially flat in attendance the last couple of years ...I'll be shocked if there isn't a *drop* for the 2013 figures. I remember Dustin West commenting on the podcast how empty Epcot was on a Saturday night earlier this summer. Magic Kingdom is sizzling, though.

 

[Robbi]

In march of 1972 a poly lagoon view was.....$40 a night.

We bought in at $96 a point when AKV went up, after incentives and discounts. We paid MOSTLY cash, and financed the remainder for about 6 months til a bonus check landed in my mailbox.

We've, at a couple of points, considered an add on through disney, but balked at the prices.

The prices have literally increased 50% in about 6 years. That's just nuts.

If we buy, it will be resale and it will be AKV with our use year, for a "few" (maybe 50 to 100) points to smooth out some of the changes they've made to the points chart vs the way we travel. But I would never pay the prices Disney is trying to push, now. I just can't see enough value in it, at those prices.

Our first contract was through Disney for BWV. I keep thinking that we'll add on. If we do, it will definitely be through resale.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

I haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating somebody.

I think Disney has done an excellent job in educating their repeat customers about visiting Disney in the off season when it is less hot and less crowded.

The less loyal customers who call MK -- Walt Disney World and wants to know where the monorail to Motel 6 is located...are more likely to visit Universal and more likely to visit in Summer. Families with teenagers are more likely to visit in Summer and also more likely to visit Universal.

Disney can also do a lot to handle crowds with the number of lines open, number of people working the rides, etc. Having ample staffing can make a big difference.

We were in the parks on and around the 5th of January and on and around the 18th of July and I didn't see a big difference in touring any of the parks.

 

[Robbi]

I haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating somebody.

I think Disney has done an excellent job in educating their repeat customers about visiting Disney in the off season when it is less hot and less crowded.

The less loyal customers who call MK -- Walt Disney World and wants to know where the monorail to Motel 6 is located...are more likely to visit Universal and more likely to visit in Summer. Families with teenagers are more likely to visit in Summer and also more likely to visit Universal.

Disney can also do a lot to handle crowds with the number of lines open, number of people working the rides, etc. Having ample staffing can make a big difference.

We were in the parks on and around the 5th of January and on and around the 18th of July and I didn't see a big difference in touring any of the parks.

I don't agree. Some of us who have been loyal to WDW remember when the MK was Disney World. My mom still calls MK Disney World.
We also love Universal. Since I've been to WDW about 50 times, I don't think my affection for Universal has anything to do with me not being knowledgable about WDW or about me being disloyal. You can love both.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

I haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating somebody.

I think Disney has done an excellent job in educating their repeat customers about visiting Disney in the off season when it is less hot and less crowded.

The less loyal customers who call MK -- Walt Disney World and wants to know where the monorail to Motel 6 is located...are more likely to visit Universal and more likely to visit in Summer. Families with teenagers are more likely to visit in Summer and also more likely to visit Universal.

Disney can also do a lot to handle crowds with the number of lines open, number of people working the rides, etc. Having ample staffing can make a big difference.

We were in the parks on and around the 5th of January and on and around the 18th of July and I didn't see a big difference in touring any of the parks.

Still, the vast majority of American families can only come to WDW in the summer. So if the observation that you made about the July 18th crowd-level being the same as January 5th crowd-levels I would suggest that that spells real trouble for Disney.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

We ate at Tutu Italia at 5:30 PM and it was only 1/3 full and we had made reservations months beforehand. Boy, did we rush to get there too! We noticed that Via Napoli seemed a little busier(but we didn't really know about that place enough to book an ADR). We were really shocked by how the once-popular San Angel Inn was only half full(at 5:30 pm and the Sci-Fi at around the same time half empty as well!). It wasn't too many years ago that those two were some of the hottest tickets anywhere!

Again...all of this was during July 13th-21st of this year.

1. restaurants aren't the best indicator of overall business now...

2. i believe the reasons are twofold:

First, i think disney has kinda trained their repeat clientele to wait for free dining....and if so that's excellent because i still don't believe they should have the dining plan in the first place.
Second, they jacked all the menu prices steadily since the dining plan took hold...so if they aren't including it "for free"...the sticker shock could be hitting home. It does drive even me...who's entire love of wdw can't be separated from the sitdown restaurants...to veer away. i get to the point (seemingly quicker each trip) where i say "yep...i'm full, paid enough this time". That's not what the management is desiring for me.

I'll say nothing of the decline in quality (i believe it but it still is fundamentally a matter of opinion/reference)...but even if the food is great...the prices are nowhere near either market or vacation surcharge...well in excess of both.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating somebody.

I think Disney has done an excellent job in educating their repeat customers about visiting Disney in the off season when it is less hot and less crowded.

The less loyal customers who call MK -- Walt Disney World and wants to know where the monorail to Motel 6 is located...are more likely to visit Universal and more likely to visit in Summer. Families with teenagers are more likely to visit in Summer and also more likely to visit Universal.

Disney can also do a lot to handle crowds with the number of lines open, number of people working the rides, etc. Having ample staffing can make a big difference.

We were in the parks on and around the 5th of January and on and around the 18th of July and I didn't see a big difference in touring any of the parks.

i think you give them too much credit...

simply put...their core repeat audience has decided not to fight the busy times...and go toward the more pleasant weather months...notably dvc and fla residents.

beyond that...some americans (many) who used to be able to afford the vacations and were the traditonal summer vacation travelers...just can't now. That means that those that repeatedly go (a market disney has been working on diligently for 25 years) just go when they feel it suits them.
Which is hardly ever july.

and frankly, the core group i'm talking about tend to watch very closely...and know exactly what the company that supplies their expensive vacations is doing or NOT doing for them.
I hope that going forward...the consumer withholds their business if the product slips...which is how it should be. Not repeat business at a higher price for the stale.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't agree. Some of us who have been loyal to WDW remember when the MK was Disney World. My mom still calls MK Disney World.
We also love Universal. Since I've been to WDW about 50 times, I don't think my affection for Universal has anything to do with me not being knowledgable about WDW or about me being disloyal. You can love both.

I agree. This notion of loyalty always puzzles me.

 

[patsal]

14 days in July and all parks were jam packed to levels I have never seen since 9-11.

 

[richard39]

It seems that the value resorts are doing *relatively* well...the thing that has got to be a drain on Disney is the Deluxe Resorts. Just the cost of mainting the grounds of these beautiful reorts has got to be astronomical. And when you view them at nighttime around 10 PM during summer "peak season" you will see about one out of eight rooms lit up. Certainly they need more guests filling these rooms to even break-even w/operating costs. I'd hate to see how empty the GF/AKL/WL/BWI, etc.

if I am in my room by 10pm my lights are off and the kids are sleeping and the next day has been planned so not seeing a lot of lights at 10 pm isn't unusual I would think

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

14 days in July and all parks were jam packed to levels I have never seen since 9-11.

14 days?!?! What were the dates? We were there July 13th-21st and certainly didn't experience *that*. I would probably agree that the MK was more crowded than we remembered from the last visit in 2009 but the other parks not at all.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

It seems that the value resorts are doing *relatively* well...the thing that has got to be a drain on Disney is the Deluxe Resorts. Just the cost of mainting the grounds of these beautiful reorts has got to be astronomical. And when you view them at nighttime around 10 PM during summer "peak season" you will see about one out of eight rooms lit up. Certainly they need more guests filling these rooms to even break-even w/operating costs. I'd hate to see how empty the GF/AKL/WL/BWI, etc.

if I am in my room by 10pm my lights are off and the kids are sleeping and the next day has been planned so not seeing a lot of lights at 10 pm isn't unusual I would think

I agree...it's not unusual for many families to turn in early...but wouldn't think it would be as many dark rooms and empty balconies(while fireworks were going off mind you) as I observed.

 

[pilferk]

Epcot has been essentially flat in attendance the last couple of years ...I'll be shocked if there isn't a *drop* for the 2013 figures. I remember Dustin West commenting on the podcast how empty Epcot was on a Saturday night earlier this summer. Magic Kingdom is sizzling, though.

Epcot might see a drop..but given new fantasyland, I'd almost expect one. It's another sign of the park cannibalization many of us have watched. Individual parks flux a bit...some up, some down...and resort wide park attendance creeps up a little every year, but is basically flat.

I think, at this point, that's what the bean counters expect. If overall park attendance drops...then they start to worry.

 

[old lady]

Maybe its just getting too expensive for a lot of families.

A lot of people are suffering from that and don't have jobs.

 

[pilferk]

Still, the vast majority of American families can only come to WDW in the summer. So if the observation that you made about the July 18th crowd-level being the same as January 5th crowd-levels I would suggest that that spells real trouble for Disney.

Why can they only come in the summer?

Lots and lots of families...like mine...take their kids out of school for vacations. It's easier in the summer, but I wouldn't say most are confined to those dates...and definitely not a vast majority.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Why can they only come in the summer?

Lots and lots of families...like mine...take their kids out of school for vacations. It's easier in the summer, but I wouldn't say most are confined to those dates...and definitely not a vast majority.

Well, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "vast" but I would think that the majority of families take their vacations when children from varying grades and ages are all out of school. Not to make a judgement about your fine family...but many(if not most) families do not want(or cannot) to interrupt school for a family vacation.

That *is* after all, why the summer is considered a *peak season* and January is not. Yes, over time vacation patterns have changed quite a bit...but I wouldn't think it would be to the degree we are seeing at WDW this year.

Like many of us have already stated it will be interesting to see this year's attendance numbers when they are finally released. Unfortunately, we aren't privy to Disney's occupancy rates at their hotels or specific restaurant numbers. We have to read between the lines as far as the dollar-per-guest rate.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

"Lots and lots of families" may be taking their kids out of school for vacations, but it's not practical for us or most of the other families we know. Almost all take their vacations either during the summer or holidays like Christmas or Spring Break(which unfortunately is staggered with children at different ages). Summer is when the vast(yes, I used that word in this case)majority of our friends and families take their vacations.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Why can they only come in the summer?

Lots and lots of families...like mine...take their kids out of school for vacations. It's easier in the summer, but I wouldn't say most are confined to those dates...and definitely not a vast majority.

That's outdated thinking...

Nothing happens in the 3rd grade in October that can't be missed...

You heard it here first

 

[Robbi]

That's outdated thinking...

Nothing happens in the 3rd grade in October that can't be missed...

You heard it here first

Except that teachers can and do give zeros for missed work/tests. At some schools, you practically need an signed order from Congress for your child to miss school, especially for a vacation.